Object Changes, Round 3?

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
Cyric
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Object Changes, Round 3?

Postby Cyric » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:24 pm

So it's been a little over a year since our last object overhaul, and although we did much to bring us closer to a balanced world, we're still a bit out of whack. There are a handful of zones that are the main offenders, and there are a handful of zones that are under-equipped.

Furthermore, we're going to be bringing in a zillion and one Homeland zones over the next few months (another 10 or so are nearing completion over on testmud!!!) which will obviously have an impact on the objects available in the world.

As a result, we've started a new dialogue amongst ourselves to try to figure out what the best solution is. We think we know where the problems lie, but feel free to post here which zones you think give TOO MUCH good equipment out, and which give TOO LITTLE. I anticipate some changes will come within a month, but there should be very little, if any, downgrades. Items might be removed from loading (not on your characters, of course), or might be shuffled around, but I don't see a real need to drop stats. We'll see and keep it fluid for now. As I've done previously, I'll keep you all in the loop.

Cheers.
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Postby rer » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:46 pm

Too Little EQ: BC
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Postby Gura » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:24 pm

helpful hint: zones should come into this game near impossible for their level group and be tweaked downward if necessary. not come into the game full of ways to twink it and be made harder a month later.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:08 am

BC/Avernus:

Rewards - You get dagger, about body robe, sleeves, male bracelet, and mage neck (potions don't count for rewards imho). Also, you get the oppurtunity to continue another quest which only rewards 3 items (one of which is a stupid container), but that quest requires items that are also extremely difficult to get. 5 items from a zone that requires 6+ hours to do.

Solution - If the number of items stays the same, increase the value of the equipment with procs or better stats. Right now, you're better off wearing IC2 neckwear, A_robe, or bracer of defense for the mage neck/about body robe/male wrist. Please upgrade bracelet and change the mage neck to something that isn't extremely common (sv_breath). Change the robe to an onbody item. Might as well move the Avernus rares to Bel's reward too since Avernus itself is kinda lame in general.
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Re: Object Changes, Round 3?

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:03 am

Cyric wrote:we've started a new dialogue amongst ourselves to try to figure out what the best solution is.


Cyric wrote:I'll keep you all in the loop


Best of luck to you and (presumably) the other gods in figuring this out amongst yourselves. Thank you for throwing the players a bone. Everyone likes to be kept in the loop!

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Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Jhorr » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:58 am

I agree Avernus rares (amulet of sight and diamond ring) should just be moved into BC as !rares. Hulburg rares shouldn't be so rare either especially since they're not that great!

TOO LITTLE (good) EQ: BC, Hulburg, Clouds (considering dragon upgrades), IC2.

TOO MUCH (good) EQ: Muspel Invasion, Izan's

Also, please consider ungrading exp in some zones like SPOB, BC/Avernus. Zones where you are guaranteed to die should give decent exp imo to balance it out.
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Postby Birile » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:20 pm

Stop putting in new zones that have bigger and better eq than zones from the past. As a result, a lot of older zones are hardly ever done now, and are or could be made just as difficult as the newer zones. It's kinda silly.

Taking into account the fact that I have not fought any dwagons since the new code (and subsequent tweaking) was implemented, it may be worth checking into possibly upgrading/adding to the equipment from such zones as CC and Clouds (especially since some of the loads in Clouds are basically lame-ass).

And yeah, downgrade Musp invasion eq somehow.
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Postby Birile » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:22 pm

Actually, would it be possible to give us some information on which zones/eq the staff already know are problem areas that are most likely going to be worked on? It might keep us from saying the same zones over and over again, unless that's what you want!
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Postby kanenan » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:30 pm

FP .. too little
Evermeet in general, needs soo much love it hurts, even roots could use another item.. SCourt on the other hand is great as is.
stuff.
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Postby kanenan » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:33 pm

tweak hounds in tmeple of the moon, FAR FAR too easy
stuff.
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Postby Pril » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:38 pm

kanenan wrote:FP .. too little
Evermeet in general, needs soo much love it hurts, even roots could use another item.. SCourt on the other hand is great as is.


FP is too little? if they added to FP then they'd have to add to Astral and Air too. FP has probably the 2nd best bow in the game and an earring that's not only a good source of pff but is also used in fembo quest... Shrug seems ok to me, could be wrong.

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Postby kanenan » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:41 pm

coul add at least one more rareload to each plane, was just thinking about that and you posted pril.. last 5 FP runs, !bow.. just an example.
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Postby rer » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:41 pm

kanenan wrote:FP .. too little
Evermeet in general, needs soo much love it hurts, even roots could use another item.. SCourt on the other hand is great as is.


Roots is a quick and easy zone - it's perfect the way it is.
Seelie, too, is perfect as is.

Can't speak to Fire Plane atm.
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Postby rer » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:43 pm

kanenan wrote:tweak hounds in tmeple of the moon, FAR FAR too easy


I would hope that as a level 50 character you would find the mobs in Temple of the Moon far far too easy...
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Postby Dalar » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:20 pm

Please port over the elemental planes from Homeland. Those had good amounts of equipment :)
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:58 pm

Fireplane: Keep it loading earring and tattoo with a chance to have bow, but make the earring and tattoo have 2-3 different items that could load in their place. Similar to DK vault, where one of the things always loads, but which it is, is random. In the case of fireplane, make it two.

The stats don't have to be anything grand, would just be nice to see some variety in the rewards.

But to be perfectly honest, it could all just have the same exact stats, go in the same exact EQ slot, but all be labeled differently (like restrung variations or something - with an over all theme by slight variations in the ansi as well). I also suggest that if you consider adding restrictions or just playing with the restrictions, you add a lot more variations to the mix for each type.

For example:

a flaming earring (could also be):
a chunk of elemental fire
a burning red hot coal
a charcoal earring enshrouded in flames
an ear clasp burning with demonic flames

a silk tattoo (could also be):
a fiery ferionaire (sp?) of elemental fire
a burning black eyepatch
a pair of flaming pit-fiend eyes
a pair of silk goggles enshrouded in wispy flames

etc.
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Postby kanenan » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:09 pm

rer wrote:
kanenan wrote:tweak hounds in tmeple of the moon, FAR FAR too easy


I would hope that as a level 50 character you would find the mobs in Temple of the Moon far far too easy...



yeah, it is, but a 3dam neckguard worn by other level 50's says something about it?

shrug.
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Postby Pril » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:14 pm

peer... since when is it 3dam?
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Postby Larem » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:35 pm

zones that need downgrading:

izans, musp invasion.....um....

zones where the eq isnt' even worth doing:

meliech swamps, hulburg, bc, ic2, sg, clouds, magma.....um......


seems like the ones i listed as not worth doing, are the ones where you have a high chance of death, especially with the dragon changes, and yes, there is a dragon in sg :P and the rewards aren't near worth making the trip.

lets face it, hulburg has been in for a very long time, and it's hardly ever done because not only is it very annoying, but it's only got 1 decent item worth getting, and that's the ring of solid rock.

IC2 is gonna be impossible to do, hell, even before the dragon changes, it was damn near impossible, 2 ancients and 2 lessers in a group together? that's just messed up :P

BC has very little reward for such a long and hard zone, and for the record, the only point of moving avernus rares into bc would be to make sure there is no more around than is already in the game.

Magma was already not worth doin before the dragon changes, since several items were taken out. A zone that takes > 3 hours to complete and you recieve 3 eqs for it......who thought that one up? :P Not to mention that with the dragon changes, the fighting there just became damn near suicide.

Meliech swamps was basically not worth doing even before the eq changes and the split. Fighting 3 dragon types is bad enough, but when those fights give you lame eq, you feel cheated. If there is any zone that needs an overhaul, it's this one for sure.

Clouds has tons of dragons.....um....nough said :P



I also think.....that someone needs to rewrite gith.......that zone should be a lot larger, and more in depth.
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Postby Pril » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:43 pm

Larem wrote:Magma was already not worth doin before the dragon changes, since several items were taken out. A zone that takes > 3 hours to complete and you recieve 3 eqs for it......who thought that one up? :P Not to mention that with the dragon changes, the fighting there just became damn near suicide.


Well magma does have more than 3 items larem but yeah i agree it's annoying and still never done.

Pril
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Postby Yasden » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:43 pm

Upgrade Jot Invasion. Not the eq. The invasion itself. As it stands now, the zone loads at roughly 1/10 the rate of Muspel invasion, the eq blows (comparatively), and you can skip most of the fun concept about the first ever "invasion" style zone (folding past waterfall = lame).

My suggestion is to make the entire grid !tele (can leave Brimir's tele if you want), add some structure to the mobs like Muspelheim does. 5 mob groups patrolling and walking in is a lot more challenging than 6 wandering mobs luring in from combat.

Oh yeah, if you wanna upgrade anything about Jot invasion eq, give sense life back to twilight (and please rename it!)

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Postby Corth » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:17 am

Jot invasion is a good old fashioned fun action zone. I'd hate to see it made !tele and get slowed down to a halt with ress's every 15 minutes. Rather than make Jot invasion !tele, I would make it so that there is a good reason to clear the grid. Perhaps make a spanky quest and put a quest item on some random fire giant soldier and let people go crazy trying to find him.

Corth
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Postby Demuladon » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:55 am

Would be cool if one of the new highlvl zones was added down in Underdark.. (only driders and a few quests seem to lure people down there these days?)
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:31 am

Only posting this cause it never made it into the news, but Meilech was changed a bit a few months back (just before dragon changes I believe).
I'll leave it to you guys to figure out how it was changed.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:47 pm

A while back all the squids were talking about the lack of variety in psi crystals. I've heard that one more was put in since then, but it could just be a rumor.
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Postby Jhorr » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:15 am

Jot invasion is a good old fashioned fun action zone. I'd hate to see it made !tele and get slowed down to a halt with ress's every 15 minutes. Rather than make Jot invasion !tele, I would make it so that there is a good reason to clear the grid. Perhaps make a spanky quest and put a quest item on some random fire giant soldier and let people go crazy trying to find him.


I like this idea. There's something about jot that is classic. I hope it isn't changed significantly.
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Postby Yasden » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:50 pm

You'd just send a rogue to start peeking inventories if you went that route, but it's a start. Perhaps making the zone !tele is a bit much.

However, I do like the idea of 4-5 man giant groups (led by a beard maybe) either wandering randomly or patrolling (or both even) on upper and lower grids. You could add a few items here and there to these patrols (to justify the point increase), and make them unlurable, that way people actually have to poke around and kill things (add a few hellhounds too, maybe even a rare red dragon or two) in the process.

I'd even be excited to see a certain white dragon in a cave come out during the invasion looking for some "dark meat". >:)
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:06 pm

What about a decent item hidden on a random invader?
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Postby Todrael » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:36 am

The reason players don't kill every mob during Jot invasion is because they don't want to kill every mob during Jot invasion. The reason players sneak/hide/fold to any important fight so long as the rooms aren't !tele is because they don't want to fight anything in between. The reason players do all of this is because they want to put in the minimal effort required with the minimal amount of risk to obtain the maximum number of rewards. Asking for the gods to change the fights and properties of the Jot grid is just telling them that the player base will always follow the same minimal, boring, uninteresting methods unless absolutely forced to, and will then likely become upset that their minimal, boring, uninteresting and unrisky methods have been made more risky and more time consuming for the same or similar rewards.

In any case, Muspelheim (eq is too strong, and too numerous) and BC (eq is too weak) are some of the reasons I stopped playing. I consider Muspelheim rewards an affront to my accomplishments.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:25 am

Now that we've managed to hit everything unimportant -

let's discuss a term which I like to call 'fairness'.

The first thing I'd like to point out is that everything is 'unfair' to someone, but there are certain things that tned to catch more people than would be wise.

***** Having a zone with too little risk and too great of rewards.

Unfair to all. - None of us want to lower the bar around here.

***** Making changes to objects that have been in-game for quite some time.

Unfair to all. - Robbing the player base of a sense of permanence really tends to make people wary. We like our items to function the same way they did the last time we logged on.

***** Making changes to a zone we already know in order to make it more difficult.

Potential unfairness. - Doing this could effectively shut down the reasons players have for forming groups and going to these zones - while all other zones out there remain unchanged. One of the reasons why I supported tougher dragon changes is because the change was wider reaching across the mud, rather than a specific, targeted change that would alter only one zone.

***** Increasing rewards in order to reinvigorate a zone.

Please don't do this.

***** Increasing rewards and risk in order to reinvigorate a zone.

Please, please, don't do this.

***** Increasing risk in order to maintain balance of this zone, against other zones.

Potentially unfair. Gives players that have already been through the zone a little bit of a free ride and makes things more difficult for players who have not yet gone. But this is sometimes a necessary step in order to preserve the integrity of a zone in a mud where the player base is constantly improving. But this really deserves a look at other zones in order to make adjustments in comparison, rather than on their own.

In other words, please leave items that have been in a while alone. Please evaluate these items before many players put the effort to get their hands on them.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:54 am

teflor the ranger wrote:Now that we've managed to hit everything unimportant -

let's discuss a term which I like to call 'fairness'.

***** Making changes to a zone we already know in order to make it more difficult.

Potential unfairness. - Doing this could effectively shut down the reasons players have for forming groups and going to these zones - while all other zones out there remain unchanged. One of the reasons why I supported tougher dragon changes is because the change was wider reaching across the mud, rather than a specific, targeted change that would alter only one zone.

***** Increasing rewards and risk in order to reinvigorate a zone.

Please, please, don't do this.


I don't disagree with the bulk of what you say. However, I don't really see what's wrong with, say, adding several gatehouse fights and a new item to Brass to change its reputation from a snooze-fest into a "real zone" again. I'm pretty sure that as long as an entirely new and unrecognizable zone didn't result, most leaders wouldn't object to changes made to make a zone worthwhile.
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Postby Disoputlip » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:20 pm

BC may need an upgrade, but the zone is done a lot. One of the reasons is that they have a "best" item players want. As long as zones have that then the zone is done (although players complain).

If it should be based on if a zone is done or not then Hulburg should be looked at first.

I also think the end of TTF is too weak. Therefore the beginning is done, but because you are unsure about the end mob load then the end is never done.

The assassin in Izan needs something, players skip that part of Izan. mabye there is something from vault that could be moved.

Meileich must be nuts after the dragonchange, but if this has already been handled...

I also think there must be a problem in zones that are based on rares. Izan, Spob, Muspel. It just seems like these zones hold too much "best" eq.
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Postby Pril » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:17 pm

Meilech was handled it was done yesterday has some cool shineys in it.

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Postby Dalar » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:17 pm

Disoputlip wrote:BC may need an upgrade, but the zone is done a lot. One of the reasons is that they have a "best" item players want. As long as zones have that then the zone is done (although players complain).


No it isn't
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Zone Calc'er

Postby Klandal » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:24 pm

It is completely evident to anybody who actually plays this game that there are serious freaking issues with the placement of the top items. Either the zone calc'er is perfect and zones are being rediculously changed when moved to the MUD or the calc'er needs a lot of work still. With some knowledge of the calc'er, zone writers can completely abuse the flaws in the calc'er to make continuously greater rewards from disgustingly lesser difficulty.

Regarding the new equipment discovered in Meilech: This is just more evidence that something is majorly out-of-whack in the eq distribution. Don't get me wrong, I love the new items; more great priest items are needed to be honest. There shouldn't be _multiple slots_ of TOP eq for a class from one zone, especially when that zone isn't a TOP zone. Did Meilech need a lil lovin'? Yes, just one of those items would have been sufficient to spark some interest in it again. Did it need several?

I see several other TOP zones that need this treatment long before Meilech. Who would argue that Meilech is harder or longer than BC? Who would argue that more priests in the game would prefer the BC priest robe over _ANY_ of the new Meilech priest items? This should be evident to the people implementing this crap before people that actually care about balance have to point it out. Spread the wealth, especially among the true TOP zones.

And don't make BC easier, I like there being zones in the game that are almost stupidly difficult. But don't keep BC difficult and give it the shaft eq-wise compared to far less difficult zones. I'd say more but I'd get myself in trouble.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:25 pm

Disoputlip wrote:BC may need an upgrade, but the zone is done a lot.


your insane, its been done < 10 times in the 3 years its been in the game and only what 5 times in the last year 3 of those times in the last 3 weeks?
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Postby Vaprak » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:29 pm

kiryan wrote:
Disoputlip wrote:BC may need an upgrade, but the zone is done a lot.


your insane, its been done < 10 times in the 3 years its been in the game and only what 5 times in the last year 3 of those times in the last 3 weeks?


True, but the trend seems to be leaning towards doing the zone 1/week now if the past 3 weeks are any indication...
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Postby Vaprak » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:41 pm

Corth wrote:Jot invasion is a good old fashioned fun action zone. I'd hate to see it made !tele and get slowed down to a halt with ress's every 15 minutes. Rather than make Jot invasion !tele, I would make it so that there is a good reason to clear the grid. Perhaps make a spanky quest and put a quest item on some random fire giant soldier and let people go crazy trying to find him.

Corth


While it's not possible to do this right now, and there are more pressing things to implement before it will be done, my eventual goal for a zone like Jot invasion would be to add to the quest code and use player and group cookies, similar to a web browser, so that the quest/adventure code could keep track of which mobs you killed, how many, etc per zone per boot. This could be used eventually to faciliated things like having higher rewards at the end of the zone if more mobs were killed.

Specific to Jot Invasion it could be such that if you cleared all of the fire giants on the grid you would recieve the Surtur crown and Twilight at the end, and maybe a new item. If you only killed say half the mobs on the grid before you got to Loki you might get just a surtur crown OR a twilight. It would definately give a good incentive to clear the grid and make it easier for us area folks to justify having good equipment past a teleportable grid, as making most grids !teleport is usually a fix used to counteract the sneak/hide/fold that is used so easily to break the zone.

The player and group cookies would not be peakable in item inventory, nor would they be an item you had to collect like how current quests use 'tokens' to keep place in a quest.

Also do not take this as "The Word" as it's far from being considered by the staff as a whole, much less being implemented. Some day, I'd definately like to get it done though.
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:49 pm

musphelim+invasion has too much eq. its a very well done zone and the quests make sense (i mean why cant an armorer fashion different kinds of stuff with different scales), but there is just too much top end eq coming out of the zone. Even given that its bigger than 3 normal zones it might seem that it should have the eq of 3 zones, but it doesnt take the time of 3 normal zones to get the eq for whatever reason (fold and rogues)...

spob has too much eq. its not handed out at a very fast rate, but the sheer possibilities are ridiculous. Your zone shouldnt be able to have 10 different pieces of top slot/class eq. At most 2 or 3 and probably not all for the same class. Besides the elite top gear, theres probably 10 pieces of decent to mediocre gear for each class... you could literally equip yourself in all spob gear.

Izan has too much eq and too many possibilities. Now there have been really crappy loads which were probably a bit under value for the zone, but there are times when # of keys that load is excessive especially if you pick up a couple of nice rares too.

BC gear might need an upgrade... dagger is sweet and flashy which has caused some of the rest of eq to be undervalued. mage amulet is very good but most mages will probably prefer ic2 circlet. Sleeves are solid gear. Robe suffers a lot because its !neutral... its got great stats and is probably undervalued because of the flashiness of the dagger. Bracelet, probably was uber before musph invasion went in and spawned hundreds of defense bracers. With the limitation of being male only and not even having as much AC as several other bracers it really doesnt deserve any bids. Its a nice collector's piece though. Supple chain was almost worthwhile when smoke invasion armor was 0 ac and only 2 dam. i suppose its still clericable...

Mielich might have too much eq now. Depends on how many rareloads and stuff come out of it now. I already am going to suggest you take one of the uber priest items and move it to another zone.

IC2's eq was not good before the dragon changes. 2nd grid was already extremely difficult, now its at least an order of magnitude harder. The 4 dragon fight was not possible before the dragon changes. basically you do 2nd grid for the rare gloves and the rare neckpiece circlet and for the axe off strife. The other extraneous pieces of eq that come off strife are pretty much worthless (or easier to get equivalents). Oh and the axe basically worthless, it takes 3.5 hours or so to charge it and its not !drop meaning you fumble it bye bye charge (or bye bye axe if its in water/!ground).

Magma... I don't know if people just never got the hang of hte zone or what (like bc). With the band of killing frost upgrade it was probably worth doing with old dragons. It might be possible to do the zone now, but the consensus is that its not doable (but i dont think it has been tried). the quest where you turn in one of the rewards for a 2 5/5 arrows is ... i just get tired of saying it fix freaking arrow loss or make them load a lot at a time like 200. This is so dumb, it would be like taking disguise kits and most poisons out of shops and making them a zone load.

Jot invasion. why doesnt this ever load? And really i suppose i dont want it to load more often, i want musphelim invasion to load even less.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:13 pm

please please please do not create any more !load items.

I mean i thought we had covered this when we made the new roots belt !mage leaving hundreds in the game then made it mageable again with the last round of eq changes. The torins hammer thing was outrageous too, making it !load and leaving 3 of them in the game (and you all eventually got it reimpd). Tiamat is still out are we going on 4 years yet?

it is really shitty when you put uber gear in the game let a handful of people get it then make it !load.... i don't know what you can do for zones where you allowed a lot of uber gear to load, but i don't think taking the gear out is a good idea. I think for any piece of eq you make !load you should imp an equal item in a different zone (effectively becoming a restring + style).

EQ calcr needs work. It does not value AC well at all. Ask the biggest twinks in the game how important AC is. If AC was valued differently, Izan's gear might not be quite so insane. Also, llook at silly things like the best shields only having 10% more ac than some bracelets. Look at silly things like AC 10 eyepatches and ac 6 or 7 earrings and ac 6-9 rings? Im sure there is no magical reason why some eq couldnt be enchanted to provide awesome defense but it just seems sick and wrong to see mages walking around with as much ac as warriors. Perhaps all AC on items could be scaled back by half so only warriors would have a good shot at hitting max ac with spells.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:19 pm

Vaprak wrote:
kiryan wrote:
Disoputlip wrote:BC may need an upgrade, but the zone is done a lot.


your insane, its been done < 10 times in the 3 years its been in the game and only what 5 times in the last year 3 of those times in the last 3 weeks?


True, but the trend seems to be leaning towards doing the zone 1/week now if the past 3 weeks are any indication...


yes your right and i intend to keep doing it for some time... however, to say that the zone is done a lot is not accurate by any stretch of the imagination at this point in time.

Perhaps a lot compared to how often tiamat is done.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:31 pm

hey before you guys go fixing broken zones.

can you please fix tiamat?

4 years its been out. 4 years its been coming in soon. 4 years some of the best pieces of eq have been unavailable to the majority of the population. If you guys cant f*ing fix it, the put the old easy tiamat back in and upgrade the zone when you get around to it.

I mean you made izans harder and rarer retroactively after letting people farm the crap out of it. You left musphelim invasion's load % insane forever then downgraded it. Spob was made at least 25% harder after it had been quite a few times.

why can't tiamat come back into the game. for crying out loud there are a couple players that are virtual gods because they were lucky enough to get something out of the 4 runs....

Areas and cyric.

As much as I am thankful for what has come into the game things that have been fixed, the fact that tiamat is still out of the game after 4 years is a major discredit. Even if its not 100% up to areas, who else is supposed to be driving this?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:09 pm

maybe its 3 years i can't remember.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby rer » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:47 pm

Post count +1 - just adding to the Kiryan spam :)

To actually post to the point of the thread... I definitely agree with Kiryan that risk must = reward; that warriors (and subclasses) should be the only ones capable of hitting -100 (or more) AC; that Tiamat should come back in (although, not quite so vehemently!!).

Jot Invasion should be more than the .01% load that it seems to be, and Muspel Invasion should be a lot less than the 10% load that it seems to be. Either that, or there should be some sort of cool quest to MAKE them load - and not something that can be done in a single boot, or easily for that matter. *shrug*
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Postby Yasden » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:11 pm

Another thought I had: Make Jot invasion load 100% if Muspel's loads. That's hella cool to have a huge glist after spending 6 hours doing 2 invasions back to back (I mean not skipping past all the grids and whatnot).

Also, please give prots back to the muspel white (PFC) and red (PFF) gauntlets. :) It makes no sense that 3 of them have prots while these two do not, considering the quests are exactly the same, and the dragon load rates seem to be about the same (referring to the white).

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Postby Dalar » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:41 pm

Yea, b/c it's really smart to invade another country while you're being invaded.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Yasden » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:45 pm

If you compare the scenarios between the two invasions....Muspel's full invasion consists of all the fire giants being "dead".

Now, wouldn't you think Glammad and Surtur would be SMART ENOUGH to gtf out of Muspelheim before it got that bad, and assemble a strike force to slay Utgard-Loki while most of his cronies were in Muspelheim battering the hell out of it?

Diversionary tactics, man.
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Postby Burmadapig » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:13 pm

Hurm...what if you made Jot invasion call all or some of the grid mobs to a certain valuable fight or fights. You'd then have to clear grid in order to do those fights. How crazy would it be if you were on second gatehouse and all the beards came rushing in?
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Postby rer » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:40 pm

Good Call Burmy.
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:57 pm

Burmadapig wrote:Hurm...what if you made Jot invasion call all or some of the grid mobs to a certain valuable fight or fights. You'd then have to clear grid in order to do those fights. How crazy would it be if you were on second gatehouse and all the beards came rushing in?


If you guys do that, please don't tell us before it's implemented. Leave it as a surprise. Then take pictures as it happens. I wanna see jaws scraping gravel!
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