Object Changes, Round 3?

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
rer
Sojourner
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:19 pm

Postby rer » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:10 am

ROFL! Kelly, you're just as evil as in my dreams!!! *wink*
Jhorr
Sojourner
Posts: 513
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Jhorr » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:50 am

Nice job on upping BC bracelet and downgrading musp invasion one.

I also like the change to BC amulet. There was a rumor a while back that MR didn't stack though. Seems to stack according to 'attributes'. :/
Burmadapig
Sojourner
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Postby Burmadapig » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:48 am

Most high level zones could benefit from some sort of boss calling. Not all of course, but most. I think it removes some of the twinkability, although I'm sure there are those out there who will find a way (not that it's a bad thing) to twink almost anything. In this case, by "twink", I mean to creatively use strategy to subvert the ingenuity of areas builders.

Another possibility is a slight variation to forced kill order. Have other random mobs load based on another mob or mobs being killed. Would never use this to load equipment, but it would present a new challenge. I'm sure this has been done to some degree, but I'd like to see it more. This too would have to be random enough to try to stay twinkability, but I'm sure it could be done.

Traps that cut off members of the group from each other could draw out a lot of the raw zoning talent and honed expertise from the old skoolers. Maybe have it to where it splits the group communication, cuts off tells, ac, gsays, shouts, mmail, etc.

My point is that it is FAR better to upgrade fights than downgrade equipment. Sometimes downgrades are the only way to truly fix an oversight, but they should be rare. Maybe even swapping stats on items instead of downgrading per se. I guess it would come across as upgrade one and downgrade another like in the much discussed example of Musp vs. BC.

Excuse the ramble...tired as hell.
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:58 am

Ring of raw energy...
it accidntly got changed from 50hp to 50mana, musta been a typo. Is darn hard to aquire a set and no one would wear 50mana rings instead of HP... the problem with the change imho was that it didnt balance anything, it just changed things.

Lusty rings get downgraded in their upgrade quest. Make them the same as gemstones or something.

Awesome on changing tanarii gloves back!

Spob mage gear has too much AC, so does Izans.

Twighlight lost infra AND SL, while at the same time there is really no point to using a 2hander weapon already, many other items picked up SL / Infra and much easier to obtain items kept them.

Combat amulet is hard to get and isn't very good. Specially with new dragons.

Amulet of sight isn't very powerful, annoying to have things changed into quest items to validate their worth. Give it some more sight.

TTF is pretty darn buff for what it is. Best belt, earring, great ring combo can be done super fast. Blood earring puts scorp earring to shame. Lots of people reckon scorps earring can be soloed, it would take forever and ive still never heard of anyone actually doing such a thing.

I also posted a big list of my thoughts on various zones, zone by zone here before this thread started ...
http://www.torilmud.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15588

All swords and axes in the game need their dice and hitdam doubled, they were downgraded a while back and no one seems to know why. Would give more room for flexibility in weapon hitdam / dice if they had a broader range.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Ruxur
Sojourner
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 5:39 pm
Location: Anniston, Alabama

BC robe

Postby Ruxur » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:20 pm

Name 'a robe of black and white velvet'
Keyword 'velvet black white robe', Item type: ARMOR
Item can be worn on: ABOUT
Item will give you following abilities: DET-MAGIC
Item is: MAGIC ANTI-NEUTRAL ANTI-EVILRACE NO-WARRIOR NO-THIEF NOBITS
Weight: 1, Value: 200000
AC-apply is 10
Can affect you as :
Affects : HITPOINTS By 50



was ac 10 40 hps -4 sv petri


my question is this, is that really an upgrade? loosing the petri on that item kinda blows. I dunno maybe im just saying that because its the only BC item i own.
Cofen group-says 'wtf, why am i missing a cursed khanjari?'
Alendar group-says 'i r rednek i can only afford the monitor i have mud on and the broken monitor under it'
Nonox tells you 'i think someone casted 'power word gay' on pril'
Malacar ASSOC:: 'must... mp...soon...underwear...cringing...at...oncoming...onslaught...'
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:52 pm

Reportedly Twilight lost the lame flags you can get in a lot of places and regained the ability to proc on proc restoring some of its former glory.

I'm all for removing stupid flags on top end gear so it can get effects that stack better. Take for instance giving a prot to a piece of BC gear. It costs poitns to put that prot there, what if you already have that prot in another location that is also top eq for the slot? If there was a ring that was 100 hps nobits prot all, a lot of high end gear would lose value instantly because prots are no longer an issue for most... especially when you are looking at statting top end gear, look for "effects" that stack well like hps or max stat. look at isha, 50 hps 50 moves prot cold infra sense life. Its a pretty complete item, however infra is an innate for many races, sense life is available in a lot of places (like potion) and prots are duplicated all over the places these days... effectively that is a 50 hp 50 mv 20 ac cloak which is nice but compare it to dragonskin cloak ac 23, 35 hps -5 svbr. It would be far more powerful for Isha to focus on something that stacks well. For instance 75 hps 20 ac 4 max agility, or 50 hps 3 dam 20 ac. No one is going to complain about having extra hps or extra damroll, but the points infra eats up in particular are completely wasted in large. Can you really get enough max int.wis, max con, max agility? These kinds of effects stack well. saves don't stack well, we currently get way too much save on items.
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:26 pm

To snag further from Kiryan's idea, I'd like to see more soloable eq, like the drulak helmet that is 2 max_wis. It's nice to see soloable eq that is very low in max stats (wis/int). I'd assume the physical max_stat attribute eq would be better off being in zones but wis/int is good for lurnin yur skooling!
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:20 pm

[rant]
I remember the days when max_stat gear was rare, and there had to be a damned good reason for giving any item max_***.

Funny how times have changed...maybe I'm getting too old. Combined with the ease of the new roller, +stat eq has almost become pointless, especially for all the people who have rolled new chars since its conception. The rest of us poor fools still require it for the most part for at least one stat, sometimes more for the more difficult classes like mounted and rangers (unless you were a maniac and spent days upon days for your first char in the roller).

Sadly, it's all about +max_stat now for that even *bigger* power boost to your char. It's narrowed, if not eliminated the notch differentiation between races for the most part...but what about the rest of us who can't wear a 5max_con or a 4maxstr item in a slot because it does absolutely nothing for us because our stats are mediocre (compared to the new roller chars)? Sure, we could simply reroll and relevel...but the rate of skill notching doesn't justify the effort involved. I'd personally rather prefer a live reroll so that my char is just as effectively balanced as a "newroller" char of the same race/level/class.

I guess my concern is that max_stat gear should be a lot more costly than it is now, and shouldn't be casually tossed on items like hit/dam used to be on Toril1. My ogre walks around with roughly the equivalent of 75 human wis because of the enormous amount of max_wis gear he wears...and I could even get *more*, had I access to the gear to do such.

In summary, if anything in particular needs to be looked at equipment-wise, my vote would be maxstat gear first, hp/mana ratio second, hit/dam a distant third (moreso because we're all waiting on melee changes before assuming anything).

About infra. Infra on an item might be pointless to most races, but you have to look back for the human people who need it, especially for leading, particularly clerics and melee. Personally, I feel that if you're going to give infra to an item, why not just go ahead and make it human only, too? That way it 1. increases the point value of the item, making it more desirable, and 2. makes the infra eq in the game that is flagged human only have an actual purpose, not just some chump extra flag sucking up a ton of points.
[/rant]

My thoughts, feel free to pick em apart.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:26 pm

if anything needs to be looked at its how AC is accounted for.

AC doesnt cost enough in the calcr, and should cost differently depending on which classes can use the items (cheapest to most expensive, war, cle, rog, mage)

mages have way too much AC available to them currently and thats before you go throwing them 60 ac with spells.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:36 pm

Good call...I didn't think about AC.

The only spots a mage should get any real AC bonus should be wrists (magical bracers) and body/about body (robes). Rings would be an exception if they were magical rings intended for that purpose (defense rings etc).

Clerics, on the other hand, should be almost on the same level as warriors, save for the exception of being able to wear full plate. I'm not really sure any casting class should be walking around with a shield, either...
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4876
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:59 pm

why is the avernus robe STILL weight 20?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Pril
Sojourner
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Pril » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:20 pm

because it's um bulky and stuff.... and it's weighed down by magical pixies which were put into the loins of the robe to give it's magical powers... fat magical pixies... yeah anyways sorry been a long day at work will finish rambling :p

Pril

PIXIES!
Guest

Re: BC robe

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:15 am

Ruxur wrote:Name 'a robe of black and white velvet'
Keyword 'velvet black white robe', Item type: ARMOR
Item can be worn on: ABOUT
Item will give you following abilities: DET-MAGIC
Item is: MAGIC ANTI-NEUTRAL ANTI-EVILRACE NO-WARRIOR NO-THIEF NOBITS
Weight: 1, Value: 200000
AC-apply is 10
Can affect you as :
Affects : HITPOINTS By 50



was ac 10 40 hps -4 sv petri


my question is this, is that really an upgrade? loosing the petri on that item kinda blows. I dunno maybe im just saying that because its the only BC item i own.


Yay for downgrades disguised as upgrades. Who the fuck thought this one out?

pissed as hell !!x.
Aldira
Sojourner
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Aldira » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:47 am

I like all the changes, especially tanar'ri gloves! :)

However, I have one important question that I feel is critical for the gods to answer. Since there were no downgrades, where did the "points" come from? Was The Formula(tm) fudged, broken, or changed?
rylan
Sojourner
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Hudson, MA

Postby rylan » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:19 am

Yasden wrote:The only spots a mage should get any real AC bonus should be wrists (magical bracers) and body/about body (robes). Rings would be an exception if they were magical rings intended for that purpose (defense rings etc).

Clerics, on the other hand, should be almost on the same level as warriors, save for the exception of being able to wear full plate. I'm not really sure any casting class should be walking around with a shield, either...


I agree there, except that I think clerics should be encouraged to wear shields instead of holding silly orbs or something like that. I find it strange that mages have access to +hp eq with substantially more ac than do clerics.
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:39 pm

Aldira wrote:I like all the changes, especially tanar'ri gloves! :)

However, I have one important question that I feel is critical for the gods to answer. Since there were no downgrades, where did the "points" come from? Was The Formula(tm) fudged, broken, or changed?


Beat me to it. Since the given purpose of the calculator was an objective way to stat eq for a zone... how was it possible for things to be changed since the calculator was the end all, be all balance of zones.
Vaprak
Staff Member - Areas
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby Vaprak » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:06 pm

Aldira wrote:I like all the changes, especially tanar'ri gloves! :)

However, I have one important question that I feel is critical for the gods to answer. Since there were no downgrades, where did the "points" come from? Was The Formula(tm) fudged, broken, or changed?


Recipe for equipment balance:

1 cup - EQ Calcer
2 Tbsp - Player input
1 Tsp - Common sense

Mix ingredients in a large bowl and bake at 350F. Add a pinch of salt to taste. Voila!


That being said, if you like all the changes, does it matter how we arrived at them? It's a game, not a mathematics equation? 3njoy. :)
Vaprak, the Destroyer
-Formerly Tempus of HomelandMUD -- pre-merger
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:29 pm

Hehe, sometimes I wonder about that third ingredient! :P J/K (couldn't resist!)
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3914
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Postby Gormal » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:29 pm

Dagger was downgraded recently (-1), bracelet got upgrade(+1), amulet got upgrade(+1).

Robe was changed... not upgraded(0). Sleeves got a couple ac for the evils, dunno if goodies will get that, tho we don't need a tiny bit of ac(0). Supple still yawnable.(0) Who knows what this upgradable item will be or how hard... but if an item being upgradable takes more points, why does the seelie cleric staff blow so much compared to its mage brethen?

By my count thats 1+1+0+0+0+0-1= 1

In summary... the BC changes were not nearly enough. Remove potion for points if need be, upgrade robe, add another piece of eq.
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:32 pm

Gormal wrote:,. but if an item being upgradable takes more points, why does the seelie cleric staff blow so much compared to its mage brethen?


Damn that third ingredient! *cackle* April Fool's day is too close!
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:32 pm

Thilindel wrote:
Gormal wrote:... but if an item being upgradable takes more points, why does the seelie cleric staff blow so much compared to its mage brethen?


Damn that third ingredient! *cackle* April Fool's day is too close!
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:34 pm

Hrm, server doesn't like me today
rer
Sojourner
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:19 pm

Postby rer » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:06 pm

Gormal wrote: Sleeves got a couple ac for the evils, dunno if goodies will get that, tho we don't need a tiny bit of ac(0).


Goodie Sleeves had some AC removed Gormal. That's a downgrade. Supple remained the same, but rumor has it that it's now questable...
Vaprak
Staff Member - Areas
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby Vaprak » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:09 pm

rer wrote:
Gormal wrote: Sleeves got a couple ac for the evils, dunno if goodies will get that, tho we don't need a tiny bit of ac(0).


Goodie Sleeves had some AC removed Gormal. That's a downgrade. Supple remained the same, but rumor has it that it's now questable...


Both sleeves will be going to AC12 shortly. The goodie sleeves going to AC10 was a mistake on my behalf due to having only checked the stats on the evil sleeves and assuming the goodie version to be identical. Something else will happen somewhere with something, as the stats on those sleeves is about as good as I'd like to see them realistically. In other words, the changes to the EQ aren't completely finished yet.
Vaprak, the Destroyer

-Formerly Tempus of HomelandMUD -- pre-merger
rer
Sojourner
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:19 pm

Postby rer » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:18 pm

Cool. Didn't really think the Sleeves needed an Upgrade Vap - just thought it was kinda funny to log in, see the "GREAT BC EQ UPGRADES" and find that the two BC items I had had either stayed the same or been downgraded :P

Thanks for the clarification!
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:50 pm

Vaprak wrote:
Aldira wrote:I like all the changes, especially tanar'ri gloves! :)

However, I have one important question that I feel is critical for the gods to answer. Since there were no downgrades, where did the "points" come from? Was The Formula(tm) fudged, broken, or changed?


Recipe for equipment balance:

1 cup - EQ Calcer
2 Tbsp - Player input
1 Tsp - Common sense

Mix ingredients in a large bowl and bake at 350F. Add a pinch of salt to taste. Voila!


That being said, if you like all the changes, does it matter how we arrived at them? It's a game, not a mathematics equation? 3njoy. :)


Gee, and here a couple years ago we were told that the whole reason for the calculator was that when people's bias played in things got unbalanced. So now the line is numbers don't matter?
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:01 pm

Anonymous wrote:Gee, and here a couple years ago we were told that the whole reason for the calculator was that when people's bias played in things got unbalanced. So now the line is numbers don't matter?


It's not one or the other, it has to be a combination of all of them. The numbers will work if they're used with common sense and player feedback. Saying that common sense and player feedback needs to be part of the equation does not equal "numbers don't matter."
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:32 am

The eq calculator was a stupid idea. There is no way that zones can be objectively ranked based upon only a few different factors. Besides, even if it were possible, we wouldn't want it. Mudding by the numbers isn't fun.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:42 am

as a side note .. why are people afraid to post as themselves??

*sigh*
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:07 pm

I don't think the eq calculator was a stupid idea at all. I think it's a great foundation for statting equipment, but not the end-all in stats. It's a great tool for new and old builders, alike, because it can give them an idea of how to assign their stats when they may be very biased on how difficult their zone really is. Once the hard numbers are assigned, then it's time to step in and apply common sense. I do think, however, that there are issues with the eq calculator and what it takes into account. With player feedback, I'm sure it can be updated to be more accurate.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:30 am

I think the EQ calc could be good on a much bigger game with many less variables. At the moment, we can actaully have variety in the style of high end zones through a broad combination of variables / factors etc that you implement when you make the zone. You can even have procs that only happen in your one zone. So when you design a quantitative tool in order to figure out what a zone is worth, you need to figure out what EVERY combination of things you can possibly have in a zone and how that equates in worth in terms of points. It would be much easier to stat every item in the game individually which is what is done as the mud builds up. I think the EQ calc could be used as a tool to alert area gods if something might be out of kilter when something new is coming in, but by no means should your items you place in a zone be directed by it. There is just too many variables, including new ones that will be implemented, for the calculator to deal with. If something changes, you just need to recalc nd hand stat the items in zones anyhow. It also gives strength to someone that 'twinks' the calculator to make a new zone and then says 'oh but the calc said it was okay'. Or it can detract from classic zones, even ones that are still hard and do take a long time, because the calc hasn't quite percieved what is going on there. In such a conplex array such as the zones in this mud, on small spreadsheet tool is no as near powerful as player knowledge. I think a cap on number of top items in new zones would help preserve longevity of older zones as much as gearcalc.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Klandal
Sojourner
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:01 am

More changes

Postby Klandal » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:15 pm

First, I'd like to thank those working hard on changing the eq to be more in-line with common sense. It may not be exactly how I'd do things, but some are valid changes and step in the right direction imo.

However, I'm concerned about this growing trend of better rewards coming from twinkable rares than full zone, in the same zone. Let's take Meilech as a recent example. You're a mage and want a runed velvet mask. It's a rare there, one that takes all of 60 seconds to check for solo. After a handful of 60 second boot checks, it loads. It can be solo'd with some effort, but you're more likely to small-group to kill for it. Now you're a priest and want the platinum mask with rubies. It's also a rare, but takes a full zoning group of 15 an hour or two to check if it loaded and get if it did.

Now use common sense here. Which of those two items should have better stats? Granted, the mage mask probably has a lower load chance, but it takes almost no effort to check if it loaded, and less effort to do it if it did. Of course I bring this up because, in fact, the mage mask has better stats despite the relatively small effort to get it.

This isn't the only example of zones like this. Why even do full zones these days when better eq can be attained through less effort and twinking? Yes, I believe that some equipment should be attainable by a small skilled group, but should it be better equipment than those that require a full skilled group to attain?

I think I have an understanding of the problem with the meilech priest mask's points. Areas, please contact me in-game if you would like input and we can remedy this negative trend.

Klandan
Ivac ASSOC:: 'man, i'd love to be a woman'
Ivac ASSOC:: 'multiple orgasms'
Gura
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Yer girlfriend's bed

Postby Gura » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:50 pm

+1 to that.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'

Nokie wiggles his bottom.
Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'
Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Vaprak
Staff Member - Areas
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby Vaprak » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:01 pm

I mostly agree with you Klandan, personally, but the game does facilitate a want and a need for players in small groups to be able to do some things. Rares tend to facilitate that niche by allowing small groups, and sometimes solo highly skilled players to achieve equipment that they might not be able to get due to not being able to get a 15 person group when they are online.
Vaprak, the Destroyer

-Formerly Tempus of HomelandMUD -- pre-merger
Burmadapig
Sojourner
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:06 pm

Whomever thought taking the svpet off and adding 10 hps to the robes forgot to add player input and COMMON SENSE to the recipe. That's a SEVERE downgrade and makes no sense at all.

Agree with Yasden, max_stat items should be EXTREMELY RARE! Most of the items in the game with max_stat should be changed to stat instead.

The downgraded shimmering robes should be moved to another zone. No one will ever waste time doing that fight ever again.

The fight that was for shimmering robes should be upgraded to be substantially. Another about body item should be added with slightly downgraded original shimmering robes stats.

All downgrading equipment like that does is make people find something else to replace it with then not do that piece of equipment any more.

UPGRADE FIGHTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOWNGRADE ITEMS!
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:52 am

Max_stat items wouldn't be so good if you couldn't roll 100 in all your needed skills. There's the problem not the max stat stuff. You wouldn't bother wearing your +2wis maxstat item if your wis wasnt naturally 100. You would have to combine it with some regular wis gear.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:54 am

On a side note, the new roller was a huge downgrade to all the regular + stat items. Make a new roller that rolls crap stats and force everyone to reroll on it when they enter the game, could be exciting and help balance all that gear out! :)
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:47 am

That's what I was saying before. The availability of +stat gear on high end items is slim to none, and the trend has evolved into gathering the most max_stat gear pertinent to your class you possibly can. Now, along that same vein, wtf isn't there more max_agi/max_dex gear? Warrior innate defense checks are primarily dependent on these two stats, not str and con as the helpfiles suggest, although str does pertain to all your primary melee skills/defenses.

Anyway, yeah. I'm not about to reroll my troll with a completely maxed out set of skills simply to gain 4-5 points in a couple stats. I think the fair thing to do would be to allow us to effectively give us bonuses that the new roller modified.

About the new roller...I really really reaaaaaaaaaaally wish we could opt to set particular stats to top end bad/low end mundane when rolling, so that the points average is divided a little better amongst the stats we truly desire. This would fuggin_rock for the classes that require 5-6 nice stats.

Just my .02.

Deathmagnet
Burmadapig
Sojourner
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Postby Burmadapig » Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:13 am

I thought there was a cap on max_stat long ago? Why not just put a cap at +5 or +10...shrug?
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:56 am

Then you'd have to set all the racial notches the same in order for it to be fair.
Burmadapig
Sojourner
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Postby Burmadapig » Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:13 am

why? if I'm a drow, max_stat +10 is gonna give me +10 of what the cap is for a drow...if human cap for human, etc.

no matter what race it if it's capped it is fair

I guess I don't really see your point nor understand it

What I'm saying is max_stat should only be able to boost any races stat by 5-10...if you have any more max_stat it is ignored
Lohrandelarien
Sojourner
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Luleå, Norrland, Sweden
Contact:

mmmmm

Postby Lohrandelarien » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:05 pm

First, i'm glad to hear the gods are making changes to the eq's around the MUD, BC got some love and muspel got a fix. Much Needed.

Most people are thinking about the major zone eq that is done, but is it only me that still think many of the major quests gives utterly nothing in return compared to the time spent and efforts to get it done?

Just take Erlan as example, the rewards are jokes. Not a single item from Erlan is used as top eq for any class... really. Bracelet is so horrible and you can get a much better one just spending 2,5hrs in Izans a lucky day. Givin up items to get swiftwind is even more frustrating, since its kinda dull. Finders Quest, isnt that kinda cheesy rewards too?

Instead of givin out 5 pretty half-assed items, it would seem better to recieve 1 or 2 really good items. That you actually can use as prime eq. (for a tough quest).

I got loads of examples I could bring up, but I choose not to do it. Lets just say I dont think questing isnt valued enough. I love questing, I would love to wear stuff I spent horribly many hours gettin when finishing a quest, rather than some 1 rareload or a quick zone item.

What do you think?

Hugs,
Elusia/Glahir
Gura
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Yer girlfriend's bed

Postby Gura » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:00 am

gonna agree with glahir here. finders and erlan still need upgrading.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Yasden
Sojourner
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lake Stevens, WA, USA

Postby Yasden » Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:19 pm

Put some upgrade quests in for the items, or maybe add more mobs/classes/procs to the forka fight.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:21 pm

Now that we have more zones coming in with new options for players, and Toril's finally becoming the FR mud it's been claiming to be for so long...

Can the moonblades please be changed to be elf only? Technically they should kill non-elves whenever they wield them, and that's the way I'd prefer them to behave, but I'd be happy just to see non-elves not be able to wield them. I can see half-elves being able to use them, but allowing humans to wield a moonblade is just silly. If you leave it as a human wieldable weapon, is there any chance you can change the quest and the name so that it's not called a 'moonblade' any more?
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Vaprak
Staff Member - Areas
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby Vaprak » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:00 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Now that we have more zones coming in with new options for players, and Toril's finally becoming the FR mud it's been claiming to be for so long...

Can the moonblades please be changed to be elf only? Technically they should kill non-elves whenever they wield them, and that's the way I'd prefer them to behave, but I'd be happy just to see non-elves not be able to wield them. I can see half-elves being able to use them, but allowing humans to wield a moonblade is just silly. If you leave it as a human wieldable weapon, is there any chance you can change the quest and the name so that it's not called a 'moonblade' any more?


Which moonblades in particular are you refering to? Most of the ones I've glanced at seemed to be restricted already...
Vaprak, the Destroyer

-Formerly Tempus of HomelandMUD -- pre-merger
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:12 pm

Vaprak wrote:Which moonblades in particular are you refering to? Most of the ones I've glanced at seemed to be restricted already...


I thought Swiftwind was both a moonblade and human wieldable.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Pril
Sojourner
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Pril » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:32 pm

Erlan's moonblade is human wieldable but it burns humans.
Verarb
Sojourner
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Verarb » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:29 pm

Since yer taking requests, change back Amulet of sight!
Volos need MR!

Make it so!
Sarell
Sojourner
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:39 pm

Magma boots were really cool at 2 2 pff. You had to do an entire hard zone to get them, even harder now with dragon changes and they provided something different to the 3dam boots. They got changed to 2dam pff, which means musp boots, ice bears and a few other boots are flatly superior. On the other hand, I believe some items in magma that have been and can be regularly twinkified got upgrades?
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream

Return to “Object Changes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest