Homeland Players and their Chars

For discussion on integrating the players, areas, code, and cool stuff from Homeland into TorilMUD. All discussion welcome.

Should the Homeland players be given some sort of compensation for their time at Homeland considering this is a _merger_ of the two MUDs?

Absolutely, give them something!
46
72%
No way, they should have to start from scratch!
15
23%
Who cares about Homeland people?
3
5%
 
Total votes: 64
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Homeland Players and their Chars

Postby Tasan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:32 am

I'm not the first to say this, but:

Give them a character here comparable at least to their character at homeland.

Seriously. This is a merger, not a shutdown and everyone scramble to find a new home. Throw these people a bone and give them something. Maybe not a 50 -> 50 ratio, but at least ease their transition to playing here. This place needs more blood and you are only helping to turn some away by forcing them to in effect pwipe.

I personally would love to see these people find the transition here at the very least bearable, as I know there are a good deal of excellent players that played there. I haven't heard a single decent reason why this wouldn't be possible, at least leave this thread for discussion.

!!x
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:45 pm

It's a merger of code, and of zones.

Pretty much nothing else, no offense to any homeland people out there since I know most of them. Two different games, different playstyles. They need to learn this game especially if all they know is homeland it's vastly different in some areas. It'd be another case of a 40+ level char who's an absolute noob.

People would have more tolerence teaching a low level player the ropes as they go as opposed to the a level 40 player that doesn't know how to run to bg.
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:17 pm

8)

They must start at the bottom of the totem pole and lick Yayaril's boots for table scraps!
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:04 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

They must start at the bottom of the totem pole and lick Yayaril's boots for table scraps!


You keep table scraps in your boots???
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Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:46 pm

i don't think it would be fair.

a 5 to 1 offer might be fair from difficulty / time investment.

but I don't know if it needs to be fair, what would be the real harm in throwing a bone to homelanders who dont have existing high level toril chars? Some people do tiamat 5 times and get nothing, some people get handed 5 pieces of tiamat eq.

The merger is a plus no matter how you look at it and I would hate to think that we wouldn't have merged if homelanders had demanded some sort of reasonable character swap in return.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:53 pm

kiryan wrote:i don't think it would be fair.

a 5 to 1 offer might be fair from difficulty / time investment.

but I don't know if it needs to be fair, what would be the real harm in throwing a bone to homelanders who dont have existing high level toril chars? Some people do tiamat 5 times and get nothing, some people get handed 5 pieces of tiamat eq.

The merger is a plus no matter how you look at it and I would hate to think that we wouldn't have merged if homelanders had demanded some sort of reasonable character swap in return.


Badda bing, Kiryan hit it precisely on the head there. We need players, so just how is it hurting us to give them 35 or 40 levels or so on a single, unequipped character? After that, put them hand in hand with all our experienced players who are so eager to help them out, and we have a few more potentially long-term players ready for abuse.
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Postby Pril » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:20 pm

abuse.... mmm... tastey.... abuse.... mm....

Pril :p
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Postby Tasan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:53 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:It's a merger of code, and of zones.

Pretty much nothing else, no offense to any homeland people out there since I know most of them. Two different games, different playstyles. They need to learn this game especially if all they know is homeland it's vastly different in some areas. It'd be another case of a 40+ level char who's an absolute noob.

People would have more tolerence teaching a low level player the ropes as they go as opposed to the a level 40 player that doesn't know how to run to bg.


Yer acting like it was an entirely different style of game. It was hack n' slash. I'm sure they will all adapt quickly. As for "teaching" them things, who cares? The burned out "don't play just bitch" people might not want to help them, but there are plenty of people who would welcome them and know that if they came from HL they would be decent players just needing time to adjust.

I've already talked to some of them, and no they don't come off as noobs. They ask specific questions for guidance, not "can u plvl me, or give me eq".

And as I said, no a straight level conversion isn't appropriate, but something should be done.

!!x
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Postby Ambar » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:10 am

Think this has already been tossed out by the forgers of homeland as not particularly fair or something to that effect. I look at it as a learning experience, if they really want to play, they will, regardless of whats given to them. What about all the torilites who have slaved for ages to gain levels, they see some new person as a lvl 35 or whatever was decided to be given to them ... not fair to the torilites ...

I know people help the displaced homelanders .. they DO ...

Do we really want to toss levels to people then let them build their own skills? Or take that lvl 50 warrior with the 45 rescue to ZoneX ....

I say let them learn the mud the good old fashioned way ... if they wanna play they will .. keep in mind MOST of them were torilites and already have higher lvl chars ... I'm quite sure they will get the help from their friends ...

How many of us have influenced people to play this mud? I'm sure the hl pbase will do the same .. those that were so violently opposed ot previous incarnations of toril wont play anyway

-J
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Postby kanenan » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:38 pm

so.. i go to homeland, get plvld by friends, then say hey! i need a equal char on toril! and BING kiryan hands me a lvl 40 rogue for nothing? dooooood, im down with that...
stuff.
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Postby rer » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:51 pm

The only thing is, whether we throw the HL players a bone and give them 40 levels, or they go out and get the 40 with help from Toril players, the first 20 are a snap, and no real skill prac is done. 20-40 can be done with relative ease also, if you have some friends that are willing to help out, and all of a sudden we have those same level 40 characters that have no skillz wandering around lost because all they've seen is BGR and DS.

Give them the levels, and expect them to prac skills as they move the rest of the way to 50, rather than forcing them to spend 20 hours leveling to a decent level.

And as far as taking tanks with 45 rescue, just ask Grylor about that - his rescue and bash can't be higher than 50 combined at level 47. It is possible, and likely, for current Toril players to zone with their alts that have been plvled.

Throw 'em a bone, for crying out loud!
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:02 pm

kanenan wrote:so.. i go to homeland, get plvld by friends, then say hey! i need a equal char on toril! and BING kiryan hands me a lvl 40 rogue for nothing? dooooood, im down with that...


Only issue with that is, well Homeland is no longer up since the merge and you couldn't plevel yourself up there. Secondly, if anything happened you already have a high level player here and shouldn't be entitled to squat.

Lastly, a rogue? pick something that's hard to level.
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Postby Pril » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:25 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Lastly, a rogue? pick something that's hard to level.


Rofl Arilin at least he didn't say Paladin :p
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:07 pm

And I wanna know where Kiryan got all those rogues to hand out.
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Postby moritheil » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:58 pm

Some of the posts in this thread are extraordinarily amusing.

I would think that, as is usually the case, the loss of items is even more of a concern than the loss of levels. Of course, items are a more contentious issue, so it's possible that there is no acceptable way to do anything about it. Temporary items are a possibility, however. Perhaps, if there is a desire to give them something, they could each be offered a fullbody "level 40 gear" item that grants ac and a few bonuses, and lasts for a couple of weeks RL. At the end of the time, the item could just be universally reflagged to be norent, unwearable by players, and unsellable.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:17 pm

Sure are a lot of Homeland_only players posting in this thread..
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Postby Burmadapig » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:48 pm

It's not about equipment from what I've seen. It's about having to level a character from ground zero and getting nothing for the time and effort that was played on Homeland.

I'm sure if it was the other way around the Toril_only players would want an equivalent character.

Since Homeland exp was easier, maybe take the experience that a character had and multiply it by .75.

Even if you gave an equivalent level character, there are a few things that shouldn't be done.

No equipment should be given (Other players can and have generously donated)

No skill stat setting (players will have to practice and play the character to get the skills up)

No quest spell granting (players will have to quest the spells on their own and/or with the help of other players)

Homeland and Toril have no significant differences in play style. Homeland was designed by primarily old skool Soj/Toril players. Areas and code are very similar in look and feel. To say that they are significantly different and people need to learn Toril in order to not be a Noob is silly. It's just like learning new zones when they go in. It's not learning how to play. For that matter, with the Homeland zones being ported over Toril becomes a new mud altogether. <sarcasm on>Maybe all the Toril_only players should have to be set to level 1 so they can learn the new zones. </sarcasm off>

The only thing Noob about Homeland_only players is that they are exploring a new world. They are not learning how to mud.

-B aka Nazma
Last edited by Burmadapig on Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rer » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:48 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Sure are a lot of Homeland_only players posting in this thread..


Actually, I know that Pril and I never touched Homeland, Ashiwi is primarily Toril, Kanenan is primarily Toril, !!x is primarily Toril, Kiryan is primarily Toril... Arilin is too...

I'm still waiting to hear some input from the Homeland PBase...
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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:25 am

I have 9 or so years Toril and 5 or so years between Exile and Homeland.

Player only here and player/lvl 58 greater areas Homeland/5 50s (Weaponmaster, Monk, Conjurer, Troll Warrior, Ogre Berserker)

-B aka Nazma
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Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:37 am

excuse me, is this a homeland only forum?

I thought it was open to opinions from all?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:55 am

rer wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Sure are a lot of Homeland_only players posting in this thread..


Actually, I know that Pril and I never touched Homeland, Ashiwi is primarily Toril, Kanenan is primarily Toril, !!x is primarily Toril, Kiryan is primarily Toril... Arilin is too...


::cough::

Both Arilin and I built on Homeland. While I wasn't much of a player there, I was there for some time back in its beginnings.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:30 am

rer wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Sure are a lot of Homeland_only players posting in this thread..


Actually, I know that Pril and I never touched Homeland, Ashiwi is primarily Toril, Kanenan is primarily Toril, !!x is primarily Toril, Kiryan is primarily Toril... Arilin is too...

I'm still waiting to hear some input from the Homeland PBase...


Rer, don't talk, you don't know the people you talk about. Alot of people from Soj3/Toril went to Homeland at different times.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Vikaz » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:18 pm

There were 3 types of player in homelands.

1. The hardcore player, knew mudding (not just Homeland) inside out.
2. The casual player, not a noob, but noob-ish
3. The Soj3/Torilites who started some chars over there for whatever
reasons they had.

At first I was in favor of HLers getting a char over here comparable of
what they had over there. But then I started thinking a bit more.

The player type 1 will get to 50 and get a decent set no matter what, so he
doesn't really need a level 50 char to get stuff done, and he gets to learn
the place while he levels up. There already are a couple around that are
doing just fine.

Type 2 players do need to learn the mud/class they play, so they
deffinitely need to start from scratch

Type 3 already have established chars over here, so whats the big deal.

For what its worth, the time me and others had invested in HL was huge,
not because you had 10 lvl 50s, but because of the time it takes to learn
how to play them, learn the zones inside out. This knowledge you carry
over to this place. The time it took to finish off your Shou quest, your epic
weapons, etc etc is lost, but there's really nothing you can do about that.
(BTW, the zones that Vhae and co. will bring from HL are amazing, enjoy
the spankage.)

As for me, if I had to pick one char to bring over from HL it would be my
Enchanter with all quested spells, but then again, I already have one over
here.

Vikaz, 50 Drow Ench on S3/Toril


Ssissel, 50 Yuan-ti Ench
Uugsh, 50 Ogre Zerker
Estoyatho, 50 Yuan-ti Voker
Krevix, 50 Human Anti
Gokral, 50 Half-Orc Anti
Jagzlyn, 50 Drow Weaponmaster
Vizhel, 50 Drow Planewalker
Vildesh, 50 Drow Sorc
Drendat, 50 Halfling Thief
Janzlyn, 50 Drow Assassin
Narion, 50 Troll Zerker
Mrek, 50 Troll Warrior
Fripplesomething, 50 Gnome Giantslayer
V
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Postby Birile » Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:00 pm

All I know is my heart would hurt a lot if I was told one day that the amazing mud I played on (and Homeland was pretty f'ing amazing, even though I didn't play much past Beta) was closing down, to be merged with another mud and that my characters would be lost that I had spent years on and I had to start all over.

Sometimes "fair" isn't the best route, but "human" (no, not the mud race) is.

I voted that they should be thrown something in return for their sacrifice.
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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:26 pm

Those players on Homeland of Vikaz's type 1 quite possibly would not be inclined to start over on Toril simply because of the investment of time leveling up a new character. Having to start from scratch is a deterrent for those players, even though if they decided to do so it woudn't take them long to get to 50 and such as Vikaz so noted. It's the motivation to start that is the problem I think with most. The idea of doing experience is painful at best. I think giving a comparable character (in whatever form is deemed reasonable) would be an incentive to draw the Homeland players that perhaps stopped playing because of the lack of consistent online pbase. With the average online pbase growing on Toril with the merger, why not draw even more players by offering such an incentive to play. It's not a freebie. They did put in the time on Homeland and that should count for something.

It all comes down to deterrent vs. incentive.

-B aka Nazma
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:30 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Sure are a lot of Homeland_only players posting in this thread..


You'll notice the words '_only' when I talked about Homeland players. I'm talking in regards to players who ONLY played Homeland and NEVER Played Toril/Soj3 in its current wipe.

I'm pointing out that the only people who are NOT posting in this forum, are the people this matters to most, players who have only played Homeland (I didn't say Exile, that's too old) and therefor do not have characters here (On Toril) at all atm.

If you've ever played here on Toril during this wipe, you can get old deleted characters restored (which includes their bank accounts and walk right to auction). There's a free leg up and/or welcome back.

Toril players who left to play Homeland without deleting themselves, and came back, don't need a free leg up, because they already have it with existing characters. These people, you people, are already established. Why do you want free chars for having gone to another mud, just because it's code and areas is being merged with this one? That's absurd. I fail to see how any of you are honestly worried about the players this matters to most. Instead, I just see established Toril players who want free chars/gear for having left Toril and played elsewhere.

It's especially nice to see those of you who complain about how easy it is to level and gear up new chars here on Toril, or restored chars, or chars who lost all on smoke invasion, now want freebies because you went and played somewhere else. Wtf?

Wow. You built areas on another mud. You want a metal? Guess what? So did I, but you don't see me asking for a free char or wanting a reward for it here. Oh but your area is going to be put in on this mud, and mine aren't. That's different right? Ok. Well here's your reward then since you can't see it and I can. You built this zone that's coming here, I'm sure you're going to know its layout and quests better then anyone else. Even nicer is since you didn't build it for here, you can lead it all you want. How's that?



Do I think Toril players who played/built for Homeland now deserve freebies? HELL NO I don't. That's the price you paid for going somewhere else. Suck it up and deal with the loss.

Do I think Homeland players that have never played Toril's current wipe, and therefor don't have a char they can now play or get restored, deserve at least having their chars transferred naked and reduced to under 10th level? Yes, but that is it. It's a different world here, you gotta learn it. I've had enough of the level 50 newbies who don't know how to do their job or walk from one HT to another. Toril doesn't need to start importing clueless noobs from other muds now :P
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Postby Vikaz » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:58 pm

Toril doesn't need to start importing clueless noobs from other muds now :P


Toril needs all the noobs it can get its hands on, even if they are lvl 50.
V
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:08 pm

::boggle::

Jiminy Llaal. Neither Arilin nor I think we need characters from this, nor do we want them, I was only pointing out to Rer that we used to play on Homeland. No reason to get so bent over it, because I don't think anybody who built on Homeland is asking for any special favors for themselves, no matter what you want to read into it.

I don't think anybody here has suggested that Toril players who already have characters here should get new characters as well, on top of what they already have. If they have a level 50 here, it would make much more sense to just have that character brought back, with all those skills and the equipment, over a level 35-50 unskilled nekkid character. Odds are old Toril players will opt for the common sense route, and the people benefitting from something like this will be the ones who spent most of their mudding time on Homeland, only to be dumped so Toril and Homeland could merge. What's wrong with fostering a little good will among them?
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Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:35 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Wow. You built areas on another mud. You want a metal?



Just to show how much I actually care about the true topic.

Uh, it's "Medal" not "Metal"

Thanks!
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Postby rer » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:23 pm

Dalar wrote:
rer wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Sure are a lot of Homeland_only players posting in this thread..


Actually, I know that Pril and I never touched Homeland, Ashiwi is primarily Toril, Kanenan is primarily Toril, !!x is primarily Toril, Kiryan is primarily Toril... Arilin is too...

I'm still waiting to hear some input from the Homeland PBase...


Rer, don't talk, you don't know the people you talk about. Alot of people from Soj3/Toril went to Homeland at different times.


I never said anything about people going over to Homeland at different points. I just said that the people listed play primarily on Toril.

Regardless, if that statement is inaccurate about someone up there, then my apologies. Considering I see all of those players on Toril when I am on - roughly 20 hours per week - I made the assumption that they played Toril more than Homeland.

And I DO know Ashiwi, Kiryan and !!x - met them at the last gathering. Where were you?

Thanks for playing, dick.
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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:42 pm

Llaaldara - You seem to think I'm looking for a free character for myself. I'm not. I have a level 50 here. I've had him for about 3 years. I'm not advocating character compensation for personal gain of any sort.

I AGREE COMPLETELY with you that people who have played on Toril before and left DON'T deserve jack! I'm only talking about the Homeland_Only players.

I invested a lot of years into Homeland and just want to see the players get a fair deal and hope that they will. I'm not just someone who built one or two zones there. Neither are the others, such as Arilin.

I have chosen to speak up about this because I know how I'd feel if I didn't have a character here and had to start over. Quite honestly, if that was the case, I wouldn't start over. I've been through two wipes here. It's hard enough to get back into the grind of exp when you love the game. Put yourself in their shoes and think about how you'd feel if the situation was reversed.

Do I think Homeland players that have never played Toril's current wipe, and therefor don't have a char they can now play or get restored, deserve at least having their chars transferred naked and reduced to under 10th level? Yes, but that is it. It's a different world here, you gotta learn it. I've had enough of the level 50 newbies who don't know how to do their job or walk from one HT to another. Toril doesn't need to start importing clueless noobs from other muds now :P


under 10th level?! That would be a slap in the face insult.

As far as you thinking that if they were given characters that they would be newbies who don't know how to do their job or walk from one HT to another, you evidently don't know the Homeland players.

-B aka Nazma
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Postby Deltin » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:36 pm

I want a badge that says "I spent a lot of time on Homeland and all I got was this stinkin badge." ;)
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time is gold

Postby Krogsh » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:07 pm

I cant belive this... looks like the Admins of both muds plans the merge of Toril and Homeland in 3 hours, one day the mud wasnt rebooting in 80 hours and our imms just log and tell us the news, we was only like 5 players online because the last changes discourage a lot of players to log in (vampiric touch downgraded, money short cut, trade system, trophy system, etc.) Why no one thinks about the players? if it was for "GOOD" of both muds why admins didnt get the main att for one char per player? My troll there was at AC -72, 28 hit, 45 dam svbreath -12, svspell -6, svpetri -5, prot fire, haste, prot lighting, prot cold, im not asking to get back all stuff, or levels, what for 40-50 lvls if I didnt know nothing about zones and skills or spells? I just ask some Toril eq to get back my AC -72, 28 hit, 45 dam and ZERO in all other stats, perhaps some money, but admins leave the problem to the Toril players, they gave us a lot of eq, (thanks a lot, you boys are really awesome). but we are too far away from our main chars.

When a hurrican hit a comunity they need food and water and a place to live in first place, the first week we was like 8-12 homeland players trying to lvl here, because we was thinking in some kind of help from admins, now I can only see 3-5 players and the number is getting down each day, please, DO SOMETHING before all of us never log in again.

I hate politicians because they chat the problem until the people is dead, then there isnt a problem at all and its time to chat about other problem.

Sound like some people are thinking this: "Whats the matter? we got a lot of players each day, 10 homelanders aren't worty of our attention."

by the way, if you consider a "newbie" to someone who play 2-3 years in a similar mud just think about this, we have enought brains and balls to start over no matter if anybody help us, we got a 25 MB map from your mud, and the first day I re-make 90% of my triggers, mabbe we didnt know the potential of each class, but all you insult our intelligence when you said "they CANT learn another mud". or "they cant do a good job in zones" we arent so stupids.

I hate to see you want to manage this matter by a RACIST POINT, no matter if the player has 200 chars in TORIL, its fair for him to get something if he have a char in HOMELAND, this is a "MERGE" not a shutdown, and if imms are planning to give us nothing better change the MERGE word for "UPGRADE", this is an upgrade for toril, since my point of view yer mud was a lower class code-work mud.

Last point, my english sucks I know, if anyone complains im gonna start posting on spanish and see how many of you can speak my language better than I yer english. Why I said this? I have only 3 weeks here and im getting pissed off because there is a lot of players who always complain for anything. by example: "rescue for paladins, What for? this skill gonna unbalance the game!" dont be so dramatic and if you hasnt something nice to say better keep your mouth close. how many paladins did you see on the game? that skill makes them usefull at last!.
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Well, this is people talking stupid

Postby Sissak » Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:18 pm

Im an ex toril, also an ex sojourn peep, I was a player back in 1990, i been by the names grimlak/kaihen/sissak and grosh, I hear from a friend about this BBS and the topic, i read this coments about newbies of homeland and how they deserve shit, well, why this people are so mad about homeland getting their old players reintegrated to the merge?, as krogsh well put it, its a dam m-e-r-g-e, so where are those merigings players?, men, they screwed good homeland and the players, as others have put, toril needs all the players it can get, look at it, from 200 + pbase to now like 50 +, and homelanders, man, they arent newbies, i wish people shud up and think more, use their time to not agraviate other people and play the game, yes, what kind of morons say suchs things about homeland people, i guess the kind of moron who has to much time on their own hands
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Postby Vaprak » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:02 pm

Ok, so for the 63% of you that said that Homeland players, ones who don't have any high level characters on Toril, should be given something to compensate for the time, effort, and energy they spent on Homeland what do you feel that fair compensation would be?

Please be specific and realize that it is impossible to transfer pfiles from one MUD to another and that equipment will not be transferred.

For those that think that absolutely nothing should be done for Homeland players, I've pretty much seen all of your reasons why you think that way.
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Postby Selzan » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:07 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Do I think Homeland players that have never played Toril's current wipe, and therefor don't have a char they can now play or get restored, deserve at least having their chars transferred naked and reduced to under 10th level? Yes, but that is it. It's a different world here, you gotta learn it. I've had enough of the level 50 newbies who don't know how to do their job or walk from one HT to another.


This is completely pathetic. Your opinions basically summarize the blueprint of everything that is wrong with Toril in its current format. In a time when the player base is still losing its longterm players (myself included), you would think that the community might be a bit more encouraging -- let alone embrace -- new players to its realms. How well do you think this community will be received when some new player takes a gander at your gem of a post? Here's a hint: they'll be flat out disgusted. As to the "level 50 newbies," well, last I checked, you weren't exactly the second-coming of Kurz, so let's just drop the attitude, shall we?

Personally, if I had been a longterm player on Homeland, and lost everything that I had sacraficed my time and energy over, there would be close to a zero chance that I'd re-roll on another mud, ESPECIALLY one that is four+ years into its current life. I don't think that anyone is seriously advocating that a level 50 on Homeland should receive a 50 on Toril in return. The point is, to offer these folks SOMETHING to encourage them to play here.

Here's a workable solution. Character transfers should be handled on a case by case basis, with approval required by a Homeland forger -- the main rule being, that the person requesting the transfer does not have a character above level 30 or so on TorilMUD. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that it would be all too difficult for Homeland's staff to separate the level 50's who left Toril for Homeland. Limit transfers to one character per person (thus, giving up however many alts that person might have had), and set their level on Toril equal to 70% of their level on Homeland (for a level 50 on Homeland, this would equal the receipt of a level 35 on Toril). Those characers would receive a standard set of mid-level gear from second tier zones like Jot, Brass, HP, some stuff from SF/TF, etc. Hell, I'll even put together a list of items I'd view as appropriate if someone so desires.

I'm sure someone might respond that Homeland's leveling was easier than Toril's, at least from 1-40. You know what? Who cares. Ditto to a player's kit on Homeland not translating well to a class on Toril -- convert them over to whatever class you view as being the most similar. This MUD can use every player that it can get, and slashing 30% of a player's total levels will still require quite a bit of xp'ing to get to level 50. The bottom line, which Sesexe so conveniently ignores, is that this MUD is losing players on a regular basis, and hasn't gained many (any?) in return. If it's going to take offering some mid-level gear and half-leveled characters for us to get another 20 or so players interested in the game, then so be it, particularly when we're purportedly "MERGING" with that community. Who knows, perhaps those folks have friends who might be interested in playing as well, adding another 10 or so folks to the pbase.

I hope that this MUD is still around whenever I choose to return (which is entirely inevitable), but it will need to take some long strides towards increasing the interest of its players. Embracing those from Homeland is a simple way to accomplish that immediately, and really should not go unignored. Here's your built-in chance to advertise and market Toril to quite a few people, who may not give it a shot otherwise -- don't lose the opportunity over the views of a few pigheaded people.
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Postby Krogsh » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:36 pm

1) Homeland player MUST rol a TORIL char and be absolutely agreed on stats, Name, race, class is up to the player, we don't know if kits gonna be implemented, that info could help people to decide what he must rol.

2) Homeland mud should accept for a short period of time the old player and imms, the player must log the char he/she wants to transfer to TORIL and let the imms check the equip hes/shes wearing and give eq from TORIL who can compensate him/her in the best way. all other chars from the same player should be ignored. The player need to have the chance to wear the best set of eq he/she have, items on inventory should not be consider.

3) the player will start at lvl 1 full eq, since inventory and weight matters a ton here I ask for a good container.

4) Artifacts, guild room's, chests, stored items, money, items in other players must be erased, but they deserve something in exchange, 1,000 platinum for each real time day he/she has stored in his player should be fair.

5) If imms hasnt time to check player by player then check the auction channel from TORIL and see how much plat is needed to eq a player with DECENT EQ, that include the 5p for identify each item and give the money to the players.

Almost forgot, Selzan, since the merge I start from zero and now im lvl 33, so you consider I didnt deserve nothing just because I decide to play in this time?
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Postby Selzan » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:17 pm

Krogsh wrote:Almost forgot, Selzan, since the merge I start from zero and now im lvl 33, so you consider I didnt deserve nothing just because I decide to play in this time?


You bring up a good point, and one in which we'll probably disagree. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely in your corner, but I think there needs to be some fairly uniform rules established so that everyone is treated equally.

I assume that this character that you just leveled to 33 is your first character on Toril this wipe. From the sound of your post, I'll also assume you had a level 50 on Homeland, with close to a maxed set of high-end gear. Under the semi-proposal that I outlined above, I would suggest that in situations like yours you should be given the choice to either keep your current level 33 character with whatever equipment people have given you (or that you have purchased/found yourself), OR you decide to remove that character and receive a new level 35 character (70% of your level on Homeland) with the standard set of approved equipment for character transfers. If you choose to take the level 35 character, then what you've "gained" during this time period is the knowledge of the game at a low-mid level, without any penalty of risk to your newly awarded level 35 character. Call it a testing phase, if you will. With a standard set of equipment, and your current knowledge, you would easily take a level 35 character to at least level 40 within a week -- definitely a nice start for a new player to Toril.

We'll have to agree to disagree on receiving comparable equipment based on what you were wearing on Homeland. I think it gets way too tricky to pick and choose equipment on this MUD, as compared to another. If equipment transfers are handled individually it will only cause plenty of issues as to "fairness" regarding how this is handled on a case by case basis. This, in turn, creates an administrative burden, which will inevitably decrease the chance of such a proposal being implemented. The best way to move forward is using standard sets of equipment (those from Toril should know what I meant by second tier equipment from zones lik Jot, Brass, etc.) to ease your transition. I know its not a perfect solution, but it's probably the most realistic way for you to get some decent stuff for the effort that you exerted on Homeland.

Realistically, if my proposal were ever implemented (and I doubt that it will be), someone like yourself will probably have already outleveled the lvl 35 character that you would receive by the time of implementation. The people that this would truly benefit are those from Homeland who don't have the motivation or energy to level from scratch as a naked level 1 newbie. And really, who can blame them? It takes a serious effort to do that at this stage of the MUD, especially when you're losing a stacked level 50 that you have devoted years of your life towards developing.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Thanks for bringing my attention to your situation so that I could at least propose some type of solution. Hope it all works out for you.
Last edited by Selzan on Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sigh.

Postby Retark_Myktark » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:24 pm

You know this really makes me sad. The players on Homeland aren't used to some people being petty like this. It was a friendlier, less competitive atmosphere there.

I played on Toril since Early Soj 2 days. I've had chars come and go. Four years ago I left one of the better guilds on Toril behind and a maxed out invoker to move on with my life, get through college, secure a job, etc.

I "retired" for three years, but like Michael Jordan, I couldn't get it out of my blood. One of my friends is a staple on Toril and was a god on Homeland, and got me back into things. I chose Homeland for my "rebirth" because of the elitist mentality of some Toril players. Everyone on Homeland accepted me with open arms, built me up and got me into mudding again. I made real friends there and was very sad to see it go.

I knew it was going to be hard to come back to Toril because a) I knew I'd barely be remembered (if at all) b) how cliquey people can be.

Listen, like most Homeland players I had a handful of maxed out level 50's, including one with an artifact (albeit for a week :P) But, UNLIKE most Homeland players, I had a base to fall back on here. They don't.

All I ask is that you put yourselves in their shoes. If you logged onto Toril tomorrow and got a message saying "We're shut down! But don't worry because all the fun and excitement is moving to www.whocaresmud.net!"...what would you do? I'd be willing to bet that you would think that you'd get a char on WhoCaresMud. Or, at least that all the blood, sweat, hemmorhoids, and lost sleep you went through on Toril would be transferred, in some form, and not wiped out completely wouldn't you?

Homeland players are just as skillful as anyone else and loved their mud as much as anyone else. Give them a fair shake.

Retark/Myktark

P.S. This is only aimed at a select few Toril players.
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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:11 am

I disagree completely with giving equipment. Toril players are more than gracious with equipping Homeland players with the abundant hordes of extra equipment that sits collecting dust in players' storage/bags/etc.

I disagree partially with Selzan's 70%. It should NOT be 70% of levels. It SHOULD be 70-75% of the experience the character being replaced had on Homeland. Vhaeraun can easily code a calculation from the Homeland pbase to what the experience would be on Toril. This is fair. Homeland experience was about 20-25% (guestimate) easier than Toril.

Contrary to what I said before, skills should be set to 70-75% of caps.

Homelanders with level 50 characters SHOULD receive a character that IS zonable! Not one that requires any amount of time to level to that point.

Quest spells should NOT be granted.

This would ONLY grant Homeland ONLY players a character that is NOT a TIME SINK. This should be the biggest concern of the former Homeland Forgers as it was one of the most important issues on Homeland to eradicate.

This would allow the players to integrate easily with the existing Toril pbase without giving them equipment that could possibly be deemed unfair advantage by existing Toril ONLY players.

Those Homeland players who have taken the initiative to level a character should have THAT character advanced in levels and skills according to above stated guidelines.

That said. The above is NOT by any means or stretch of the imagination adequate compensation for the time that the Homeland ONLY players devoted to playing there. The above is that absolute bare minimum that should happen IMHO.
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Postby Azenilsee » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:09 am

I agree with everything you said except this:

Burmadapig wrote:Homelanders with level 50 characters SHOULD receive a character that IS zonable! Not one that requires any amount of time to level to that point.


What would constitute a 'zonable' char? Level 41? Level 46?
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Postby Lenefir » Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:18 am

Krogsh wrote:4) Artifacts, guild room's, chests, stored items, money, items in other players must be erased, but they deserve something in exchange, 1,000 platinum for each real time day he/she has stored in his player should be fair.


*droool* If I had a homeland character (above level 2 :-) I would be sooo rich... :-D

(An example of what I mean, skipping my chars with playing time below 1 day (and I have been on this mud only a few years, so I'm relatively new compared to that horde of people being here from the start :-)

Char 1 - Playing time: 353 days / 15 hours/ 9 minutes
Char 2 - Playing time: 123 days / 21 hours/ 40 minutes
Char 3 - Playing time: 92 days / 3 hours/ 12 minutes
Char 4 - Playing time: 13 days / 23 hours/ 51 minutes
Char 5 - Playing time: 3 days / 16 hours/ 14 minutes
Char 6 - Playing time: 2 days / 19 hours/ 40 minutes)

Seriously though. Did none of the homeland players have triggers to keep them forever logged in?
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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:24 am


I agree with everything you said except this:

Burmadapig wrote:
Homelanders with level 50 characters SHOULD receive a character that IS zonable! Not one that requires any amount of time to level to that point.


What would constitute a 'zonable' char? Level 41? Level 46?
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Why do you disagree? Do you feel that it is unfair for someone who put in just as much time as you to achieve level 50 on Homeland to receive 70-75% of the experience gained on Toril?

It is apparent by the Toril only players' posts that the biggest problem that they have with Homeland Only players getting an equivalent character is the elimination of the TIME SINK of experience. Are you guys really that selfish to feel wronged if Homelanders were given same level characters?

What if the pfiles could have been merged How would you feel then?

So, you want the code and zones, but screw the pbase because they were pretty much non-existent?

As evidenced in another post not in this thread, by Larem I think, it appears as though the Toril only pbase doesn't understand the nature of the merger. The question was asked if Toril bought out Homeland or if it was a "Hostal takeover." (The word is spelled hostile btw Larem) Maybe the gods need to post some kind of disclosure of what actually transpired.

Please reread my post and you will understand what I mean by a "zonable character." My last post spells it out as to what I think Homeland Only players should receive.

You guys make this merger like someone moving to a different country instead of like someone moving into a new house. Homeland players already know how to walk and talk and know the language. Sure they have to learn the dialect, but not an entirely different language.

It is kind of like starting a new job. You don't lose your skills. You just have to apply them. They don't take your skill set away when you start a new job. You have to give people the tools to be able to do the job immediately if you want to see the benefit.

The Toril only players have done their part by equipping the Homelanders. Now it's time for the gods of Toril to do their part and throw a welcome party for the Homelanders.

I don't want to even consider the thought that the Forgers of Homeland didn't put in a clause for player reimbursement at the merger negotiation table. Though that is not evidenced by what has transpired.

Once again, for those of you who think I'm looking for something for myself by being a voice here. I want NOTHING for myself. I have what I need to zone here. All I want to gain is being able to see my friends from Homeland given what they rightfully should have.

One other thing. If anyone feels that giving Homeland Only players an equivalent character wrongs you or cheats you in ANY way or gives them something they don't deserve, you need to GROW THE F*** UP!
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:09 pm

Ahhhh, now there's the Peter we know and love!
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Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:43 pm

Haha...funny Ash...it was about 5 am and I couldn't sleep, so of course the soapbox came out.
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Postby Lahgen » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:16 pm

Burmadapig wrote:One other thing. If anyone feels that giving Homeland Only players an equivalent character wrongs you or cheats you in ANY way or gives them something they don't deserve, you need to GROW THE F*** UP!


Ah, I love the smell of Irony in the morning.

Now, while I don't think it cheats us per se, I do think it's unneccesary.

1. While xp is tedious, it's not that hard if you can force march yourself through it.

2. As stated before, many players are quite generous with their spare gear.

Now, if the situation was reversed, I don't think I would expect to have Lahgen or anyone else transferred over in any shape or form.
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Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone
Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'

Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Burmadapig » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:50 pm

How about this then?

Anyone who does NOT think that Homelanders need/deserve to get an equivalent character, should have all their characters and equipment and bank balances deleted and be forced to start over from square one.

I bet the response to this will be Not NO but Hell NO!

Isn't that what the Homelanders had done to them?
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:08 pm

Burmadapig wrote:Haha...funny Ash...it was about 5 am and I couldn't sleep, so of course the soapbox came out.


What? I was serious...
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:22 pm

Burmadapig wrote:How about this then?

Anyone who does NOT think that Homelanders need/deserve to get an equivalent character, should have all their characters and equipment and bank balances deleted and be forced to start over from square one.

I bet the response to this will be Not NO but Hell NO!

Isn't that what the Homelanders had done to them?


Pretty sure most of the muds older players have done that atleast 3 times. Place has been shutdown before, remember?
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Postby Lahgen » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:36 pm

That comes closer to making sense, but only because, to my understanding, the merger came rather sudden, with no chance to prepare.

If they had more warning, they could have started here earlier and not had things snatched out from under them like they were.

Or are you suggesting they deserve free stuff just because they lost something?

I wouldn't neccesarily mind them having free stuff, if the staff so decreed it, but I don't think it's an entitlement, either. And I don't think that I would be entitled to it if the situation were reversed, either. Just because you seem (emphasis on seem) to believe in entitlement doesn't mean everyone else does.

Another question...do muds ever put down guidelines for this sort of thing? I know it sounds silly, but bear with me here. Is there ever anything there that says "If we merge with another mud, and you have to use that server, you get some sort of reimbursement?"

Sure, it would be nice if that were an obligation, but generally speaking, muds generally deny themselves obligations to others that would seem natural to us in the real world. As an imm, I'm sure you have believed, or at least allowed this, to happen on Homelands, right? So, why should Toril have any obligation to reimburse Homelands players?
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'

Dorgh group-says 'damn, even with Cofen helping Mori, they STILL can't kill someone

Hekanut says 'I know level doesn't matter much, but most won't take seriously if a level 2 claims to be the best thing before, during, and after sliced bread.'



Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."

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