Errants of Waterdeep [OOC Thread]

Discussion concerning the upcoming Toril 2.0 update as well as general 3.5 edition D&D discussion
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:34 pm

Mourner is a PrC which came from Dragon Magazine. DragMag featured a number of feats and prestige classes which were not very well thought out, and Dragon Magazine is almost considered "non-canon" by a lot of DMs. I don't allow any DragMag PrCs in my games, because the same level of balance you find with splatbook mechanics isn't there.

So, to answer your question, there might not be ANY disadvantage.
- Ragorn
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Postby Birile » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:47 pm

Ragorn wrote:Mourner is a PrC which came from Dragon Magazine. DragMag featured a number of feats and prestige classes which were not very well thought out, and Dragon Magazine is almost considered "non-canon" by a lot of DMs. I don't allow any DragMag PrCs in my games, because the same level of balance you find with splatbook mechanics isn't there.

So, to answer your question, there might not be ANY disadvantage.


That makes sense now--the only difference I saw was that it didn't have as many in-class skills as a "regular" Bard.

Thanks, Rags!
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Postby Malacar » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:21 pm

It's kind of interesting to see the different styles of play.

I know that if this were a tabletop game, I would veto half the characters on alignment alone. It's a staple of D&D games that I run, that Evil and CN alignments tend to derail a game faster than an Al Qaida bomb.

To each their own, but I just thought it was indicative of how truly unique D&D is among gaming - the ability to have so many differences of opinion, and still be able to find a place to play that agrees with you. :)

No, this isn't a knock.. More a praise for those willing to 'shuck the norm', and for the game itself.

Oh well.. Back to RL I guess. ;)
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Postby Birile » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:22 pm

Malacar wrote:It's kind of interesting to see the different styles of play.

I know that if this were a tabletop game, I would veto half the characters on alignment alone. It's a staple of D&D games that I run, that Evil and CN alignments tend to derail a game faster than an Al Qaida bomb.

To each their own, but I just thought it was indicative of how truly unique D&D is among gaming - the ability to have so many differences of opinion, and still be able to find a place to play that agrees with you. :)

No, this isn't a knock.. More a praise for those willing to 'shuck the norm', and for the game itself.

Oh well.. Back to RL I guess. ;)


You have to also understand that--if I'm not mistaken--the five of us in this campaign are completely new to D&D and are completely used to Toril where a goodrace 15 man group is 99.99999% of the time made up of good-aligned and evil-aligned characters and good-aligned clerics are constantly healing and vitting evil-aligned, etc. etc. etc.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:32 pm

I strongly favor playing evil these days. When the party is comprised entirely of flavorless Lawful Good Heroes, you lose an entire dimension of content within the game. You often end up with a somewhat nondescript game... the party embarks on The Adventure because the Authority Figure tells them to. Along the way, they brave dangers and face challenges, ultimately overcoming the Forces of Evil.

How boring! If the answer to the question "Why are you going on this adventure?" is "Because the king asked me to," you've got a boring campaign :)

However, when you put evil characters into the party, you do need to chat with the players about boundaries. I usually ask my players not to directly steal from each other, because intra-party theft almost always breaks down a campaign. I also ask that the characters bear in mind that they must work together... the goal is to finish the campaign, after all. Sometimes, characters manage to piss each other off to the point where they would not feasibly continue to adventure with each other. If a player paints himself into a corner and decides his character's only recourse is to leave the party, then we have a problem.

There are challenges to dealing with evil characters in a party, but I think the potential for excellent character interaction is worth the extra headache.
- Ragorn
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Postby Malacar » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:53 am

Oh, the party I DM for is hardly all Lawful Good.

Currently they have a CN, CG, LN, LG, and N. It's... interesting.

My last game had more of a lawful mix, but that is a rarity.

I will always stand by my viewpoint that it takes a very special person to play an evil in a game effectively. I've allowed them on occasion, with heavy discussion with the player beforehand. One time, I had a LE character in the party, hunting down another PC. In the middle of a fight, he captured and made off with said person (who turned out later to be an elven prince, captured under false pretenses). A really cool RP session ensued, with the captured PC actually talking the evil guy out of bringing him in.

Either way - I wouldn't ever allow a CE character into a party, unless the entire party was evil. NE is doable - you're just low on morals. LE is doable - you're selfish. CE is not doable - you do whatever you want, whenever you want, for the sake of chaos, blood, and evil.

But hey, that's my two cents. I wasn't really dissing you guys, Birile. It just wasn't my style, so I bowed out - but again, that's the beauty of the game (and more power to you guys!). :)
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Postby alendar » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:43 am

last table top adventure i was on... my rogue was the only one to survive...

the last words of the party mage was.... hey we made it out a live....

the rogue smiled and said... yeah I did!

good times....
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:25 pm

Malacar wrote:I will always stand by my viewpoint that it takes a very special person to play an evil in a game effectively. I've allowed them on occasion, with heavy discussion with the player beforehand.


Last campaign I ran, I required all of the players to play Evil alignment. I let the Cleric play Chaotic Neutral so she could spontaneously cast heals, but we had 1 LE, 1 NE, and 2 CE in the party.

This was the most fun I've ever had with a campaign. The NE Rogue spotted a secret door at one point, and declined to tell the party. While he was on watch, he snuck away to go explore. After some puzzle solving, he cracked open the Dwarven Treasure Vault, but set off a huge falling stone trap in the process. One of the other party members, the CE Barbarian/Fighter, heard the rumbling and woke up. He saw the newly-opened secret door and nudged the Horizon Walker. The two of them discovered the vault just in time to see the Rogue eyeing a gigantic emerald on a pedestal.

Well, our Barbarian friend didn't want to lose out on the treasure, so he CHARGED into the room and grabbed the stone before the Rogue could even finish saying "It's trapped!" The Barb grabbed the emerald, failed his Will save vs. domination, and drew his weapon. He dropped the Rogue to -5 hit points and turned on the Horizon Walker, but the HW successfully disarmed the gem and the dominate effect ended. The two of them saw the unconscious Rogue, searched his body, and found a whole lot of treasure they hadn't seen before. They liberated several thousand gold pieces worth of Dwarven treasure and carried the unconscious Rogue back to the resting spot.

This planted the seeds of hatred, and the Rogue spent the rest of the campaign plotting revenge against the Barbarian. How he got it is an entirely different story o_O

What if the party had been good-aligned? The Rogue would have searched the secret door, the party would have walked in, disarmed the trap, and taken the emerald. As it actually turned out, we had a great deal of intra-party drama that stemmed from this session, and it made the entire rest of the campaign more fun to play.
- Ragorn
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Postby Tasan » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:58 pm

Malacar wrote:Either way - I wouldn't ever allow a CE character into a party, unless the entire party was evil. NE is doable - you're just low on morals. LE is doable - you're selfish. CE is not doable - you do whatever you want, whenever you want, for the sake of chaos, blood, and evil.

But hey, that's my two cents. I wasn't really dissing you guys, Birile. It just wasn't my style, so I bowed out - but again, that's the beauty of the game (and more power to you guys!). :)


That's an interesting viewpoint. Evil is a lack of morality, nothing else. Being evil doesn't amount to blood to me. To me evil is going against the established norms of society and could literally have nothing to do with even killing people.

Much of the things we would decree as evil nowadays don't necessarily constitute a threat to life. Microsoft is considered an "evil" entity. Same w/ Enron execs and the rest of the dotcom bastards who stole money from their own companies. Do these companies cause deaths? Most likely not(however I conceed it would be possible to link some if you wanted to). Do companies not share the same traits as the people running them?

I look at playing evil as a challenge. Playing chaotic evil is more to my liking than lawful because I'm very random myself. I think if you watch the interactions over the course of this campaign you will see what I mean by all this.
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Postby Malacar » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:55 pm

Evil is whatever the beholder views it to be.

I was far from knocking you guys. My experience with evil is, from the sound of it, quite different. Like I said.. More power to you guys.

Personally, I prefer to run a group, or play in a group that, while having some arguments or bickering, gets along. A group that backstabs one another, and implodes a game I spent months working on.. Would immediately tick me off. I build my games with a lot of flexibility in them.. And I have fun running.. So call it a personal quirk, or an idealistic view.. Whichever works for you. But it still wouldn't change my views on evil alignments... I've designed games for evils.. But they need to be tailored in my experience.
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Postby moritheil » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:44 pm

This thread just proves that there will always be goodie vs. evil debates :P
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Postby Malacar » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:26 pm

Luckily in this case, without much venom. More of a mild debate. Which I prefer these days.. My days of vitriol and venom are hopefully behind me.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:27 pm

http://jatol.jatol.com/~snikbot/3eprofiler/

Sylnae is going away! Go get yer stuff from there and load it to:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/home/

Hurry up before the stuff gets deleted forever :)


Edit: I visited 3 "hosting" sites and none appear to have the ability to upload quite yet. I'm assuming that it won't be long before enough people ask about it to get it done. For now I can host the current pages if you want to email them to me. We'd have to do changes by upload, but it would beat nothing at all.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:32 pm

Wow, that's . . . really a striking color and size combination. At first I mistook it for a spam post :P

As a possible alternative to hosting your char sheets externally, I humbly suggest doing it by hand in a format similar to the sample char sheet ;) That way all your info is right here and you can do your editing right in the post.
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Postby Lilira » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:16 pm

I've started using Tangled Webs for my paper game. Takes a little getting used to, but I love it. Weight?? Heh.. they calculate that stuff for me!
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Postby daggaz » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:25 pm

not to hijack but

hey ragorn, im curious just how did the DM handle the mechanics for the rogue finding the door? (ie did he roll the spot check for the rogue himself and then slip him a piece of paper or what?) Just cuz im a n00b to tabletop and my wanker friend gave up on our campaign so of course I took over his job as DM.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:37 pm

I rolled him a hidden spot check to find the door as he walked past. Normally, a player needs to search to find secret doors, but this one in particular was both plot-important and poorly placed, so I bent the rules a little bit to help him find it. I passed him a note several minutes later which said "you found a secret door in the last room." It was his option to quietly pocket the note without saying anything.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:02 pm

Birile - I'm not aware of any rules requiring 5 ranks to combine Move Silently and Hide. In fact, such a clause would seem to make level 1 rogues useless :P Where did you see the rules?
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:37 pm

No such rule exists.
- Ragorn
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Postby Birile » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:59 pm

Hey, that's music to my ears, then!

I was going off of something I read in a pdf file on the Crystal Keep website regarding Skills. I'm sure my novice interpretation got the better of me!
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Postby Birile » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:06 pm

Boooooo on Birile's Listen check.

Btw, what're the chances of getting the Character Sheets thread stickied so it doesn't fall off the first page?
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Postby moritheil » Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:18 pm

Ok, thanks for the confirmation, Rags!

Birile, I'll ask Shev and see what he thinks.
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Postby Birile » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:52 pm

I would've posted to the thread yesterday but Invisible Castle didn't seem to want to load when I wanted to do my rolls.

Okay, a question on mechanics:

When you take 10 or 20, do you add in your bonuses afterward, or is the "final" result 10/20? So, for Birile's Hide skill, if he took 10 (not sure he's even allowed to take 10 on a Hide check), would the result be 10, or would it be 10+11=21?
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:25 pm

You add your bonuses.

Taking 10 is the equivalent of doing a mundane job on a task you know by heart. It takes six seconds (one round) to take 10 on a check, because it's akin to trying once with an average chance of success. A high level Rogue will often take 10 on his Open Lock check, because he knows he can probably succeed without really trying. You can't take 10 on some skills (like Balance or Hide) in combat, because of the distraction of the battle.

The Rogue special ability "Skill Mastery" lets a Rogue pick 3+Int skills that he can take 10 on in combat. A Rogue with Skill Mastery will probably never make a Tumble check again, because the DC for most Tumble checks is so trivially low that even a very low level Rogue could succeed by taking 10 (if he were allowed to do so).

Taking 20 is literally trying until you succeed. It's repeating the task over and over again twenty times (two minutes) until you're sure you've done your best. A high level Rogue will take 20 on a particularly stubborn lock if he has the time to devote to it. You can't take 20 on some skills (like Climb or Disable Device) if they have negative consequences for failure. "Trying over and over again" to disarm the explosion trap would probably end poorly the first time :)

In either case, you add your character's bonuses to the assumed roll.

[HOUSE RULE]I allow my players to "take 0" as well. Taking zero means you work with just your bonus, no die roll at all. You can take 0 on any check, any time, whenever you want, even in combat. If you're such an awesome Rogue that you think you can successfully climb a wall without even rolling a die to do it, I'll let you try.
- Ragorn
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Postby Birile » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:34 pm

Thx Rags!
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Postby moritheil » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:07 pm

Well, generally skills don't autofail on a 1. If your bonuses exceed the target DC, success is guaranteed, so you may as well not bother rolling dice. Thus essentially one can always "take 1" or "take 0" on a skill roll - it is an admission by the DM that it is not mathematically possible for the character to fail at a task. While Rags calls it a houserule, I'd say most DMs would let that happen to speed things up.

I want to nitpick the excellent answer that Ragorn gave just a bit. You can't take 10 in distracting situations where you can't focus on the task. Combat is not the only distracting situation; it's just the most common one.

When you are allowed to take 10 or 20 (or 15, if you're into psionics and expend your mental focus on certain checks) you treat it as if you had rolled the die and gotten that as your result. Thus, you add bonuses and penalties as normal.


On another note, we should be sure to thank Shev for stickying the other thread. Thanks, Shev!
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Postby Tasan » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:36 am

Tasan wrote:http://jatol.jatol.com/~snikbot/3eprofiler/

Sylnae is going away! Go get yer stuff from there and load it to:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/home/

Hurry up before the stuff gets deleted forever :)


Edit: I visited 3 "hosting" sites and none appear to have the ability to upload quite yet. I'm assuming that it won't be long before enough people ask about it to get it done. For now I can host the current pages if you want to email them to me. We'd have to do changes by upload, but it would beat nothing at all.


As a followup to this, the people who took over for Sylnae have the old databases intact. I was able to log in with my Sylnae account there and my information was still intact. You can find the new site here:

http://www.rpgwebprofiler.net/
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Postby Birile » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:53 pm

Sweetness.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:23 pm

So, rolling for initiative. ISn't it dex based, and is it the same as the others? d20+dex bonus? also, would this be the point where we'd call what abilities (if any) we want to use? i.e. stunning fist.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:37 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:So, rolling for initiative. ISn't it dex based, and is it the same as the others? d20+dex bonus? also, would this be the point where we'd call what abilities (if any) we want to use? i.e. stunning fist.


Well, yes to the first (d20 + dex + any special modifiers, such as Improved Initiative.)

If you use special abilities, etc. you do so when your turn comes up. The DM needs to first get everyone's initiatives and then post an Initiative Order. After that, people take turns according to the order.

Note that unlike 2.0, generally initiatives are rolled once at the beginning of combat and not changed thereafter. (OA has some abilities that mess with that.)
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Postby moritheil » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:14 pm

PS - Okay, Birile just owned everything. 26 on initiative? That's an epic-quality roll, right there.
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Postby Birile » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:51 pm

:oops:
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Postby Birile » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:06 pm

Mori/Rags, lemme know if I needed to make a roll for the bard song, as far as I could tell from what I've read I don't, though I think I have to make a Concentration check every round I continue to sing.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:38 pm

It depends on which song you are singing. Most songs, like Inspire Courage, are automatic and require no Concentration check. You may maintain these songs regardless of the circumstances, including during combat.

However, there are some songs which state that you must maintain concentration for a period of time (often 1 minute) before the effect takes hold (see Fascinate). These effects do not require Concentration checks unless you are interrupted in some way, and then your Concentration DC depends on the type of interruption (see the Concentration skill for details).

Regardless of the song you're singing, you cannot speak, cast spells with a verbal component, or use scrolls or wands while singing. Your DM will probably allow you to communicate to a limited extent via the lyrics of your song, but you can't carry on a full conversation while you're carousing.

Example:
Birile approaches an NPC guard and tries to convince him to let the party through. His Diplomacy check doesn't appear to sway the guard, so he starts a rousing Bard Song of Fascinate. The guard is enraptured by the song, and sits on the ground, staring happily at Birile while the party casually walks by.

Oh noes! Another guard rounds the corner and sees Birile. He fires an arrow which hits Birile for 4 points of damage. Birile must now make a Concentration check DC 14 (10 + damage) to maintain the Fascination. Birile makes his save, but decides now is a good time to beat feet. He stops the song and runs after the party. On his initiative in the next round, the first guard shakes off the Fascination effect, realizes he's been had, and chases Birile into the marketplace.
- Ragorn
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Postby Gormal » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:09 pm

Sorry for the delay in responding to this. We lost connection to the internet for a few days... gotta love reliable gear.

This is the part where I'm still in the dark. Should I have announced what spells I had prepared already or can I just cast whatever at this point? Does drawing my weapon count as my turn? Exactly how much can I do during this period?
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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:23 pm

Very well put, Rags!

Gormal - Drawing a weapon is a free part of a move action only if your BAB is +1 or higher, so you will need to use a move action to draw your weapon.

Hmm, let's back up a bit. You get one standard action and one move action each turn. If you wish, you can also use your standard action to perform a move action. There are also things that are full round actions, such as withdrawing or charging.

Here's a link for details: Actions in Combat

Now, regarding your spells, I know I checked previously and some people had posted their spells prepared. I guess I didn't check yours. Go ahead and list what spells you had prepared. Remember that Good-aligned clerics can spontaneously swap out any spell they have prepared for healing, so you have some flexibility; don't agonize over your prepared list too much (and generally speaking, don't bother preparing cures; just trade in other spells to cast cure when the time comes.)
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Postby Birile » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:34 pm

I'm no expert, but here's what I've been able to find regarding what we can and can't do in 1 round (Mori/Rags know better):

You can do 1 Standard Action (ie. attempting to strike an opponent, casting a spell), 1 Move Action (moving up to your Speed, drawing a weapon) and a number of Swift Actions in a round (within reason). Or, you can make 1 Full-Round Action (certain combat maneuvers, summoning spells) and a number of Swift Actions. Most descriptions of skills and such will tell you how long the action takes.

For my first round, I began my song (Standard Action) and drew my weapon (Move Action). I didn't fire an arrow at anyone because that's another Standard Action and I figured the song was more important than doing 1d4 damage (assuming I even hit!). My intent had originally been to try to cast a spell on the white-haired guy but he's too far away for what I had in mind.

As for your spells, I think those are normally noted beforehand (ie. whenever you're done meditating/praying to Moradin) but I think Mori is assuming we'll keep tabs on what spell allotments we have per day and which ones we've memorized (Khaiden) or prayed for (Koray). Spontaneous casters (Birile) don't have to memorize or pray, and are allowed to cast any spell they know on the fly (assuming this doesn't exceed their daily allotment).

From what I could find for clerics, at 1st level you're allowed to cast 3 0-level spells, 1 1st-level spell and 1 1st-level spell of one of your Domains that are tied to your deity (not sure which two Domains you went with).

Here's a link to the available Cleric spells that I could find:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/cl ... ericSpells

Each spell tells how long it takes to cast (generally a Standard Action for combat-oriented spells if I'm not mistaken).

(You probably knew most of this but I wanted to put it out there just in case!)

So, what Koray could do this turn, in general, is a) draw his weapon and cast a spell, b) move 20 feet (your base speed) and cast a spell, c) draw his weapon and attempt to hit a target (though they're 60 feet away and that would be impossible for anyone at this point except Birile who has a 60ft-range bow), d) begin summoning a monster (full round action) if you have this spell prepared, e) can't think of anything else right now!

Hope this helps. :)
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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:01 pm

Minor Nitpick: You only get 1 swift action per round. It's free actions (like dropping held objects) that are unlimited within reason. :wink:

Quickened spells (and powers) are swift actions, hence the limitation.

Regarding archery: You actually can hit things beyond the range of your weapon, IIRC up to five range increments. You just take -2 per additional range increment. So next round, if Birile fired his shortbow (60' range increment) at a swordsman 60' away, he could do so normally; if he took a 5' step back, he could still do so, but he would be at -2 to hit because he would be 65' away.

Oh yes, 5' steps: you will often hear this term. If you DO NOT otherwise move in your turn, you can take a single 5' adjustment to represent your character shifting slightly in battle. This does not provoke any attacks of opportunity and does not take an action. It is not possible to take this 5' adjustment under certain conditions (heavy rubble comes to mind.)

The main use of the 5' step is when reach and threatening comes into play: if, for example, Koray wants to cast a spell while in melee, he'll be provoking an attack of opportunity if he does it from a square that the enemy threatens. Thus, he could take a 5' step back and then cast the spell, provoking no AOO (assuming the enemy only has reach up to the square he previously occupied.) The enemy, on his next turn, could then take a 5' step forward to pursue Koray; this would enable the enemy to still make a full attack if desired.
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Postby Birile » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:06 pm

moritheil wrote:Minor Nitpick: You only get 1 swift action per round. It's free actions (like dropping held objects) that are unlimited within reason. :wink:


You da bomb.

But there goes my devious plan of being a Bard 10/Seeker 10 who sings two refrains simultaneously in the same round to wipe out the baddies... sigh... :(
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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:11 pm

Birile wrote:
moritheil wrote:Minor Nitpick: You only get 1 swift action per round. It's free actions (like dropping held objects) that are unlimited within reason. :wink:


You da bomb.

But there goes my devious plan of being a Bard 10/Seeker 10 who sings two refrains simultaneously in the same round to wipe out the baddies... sigh... :(


There actually is a bard PrC that allows you to maintain two songs simultaneously. I can't remember what it is, though, and the ability probably comes late in the class.
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Postby Birile » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:14 pm

moritheil wrote:
Birile wrote:
moritheil wrote:Minor Nitpick: You only get 1 swift action per round. It's free actions (like dropping held objects) that are unlimited within reason. :wink:


You da bomb.

But there goes my devious plan of being a Bard 10/Seeker 10 who sings two refrains simultaneously in the same round to wipe out the baddies... sigh... :(


There actually is a bard PrC that allows you to maintain two songs simultaneously. I can't remember what it is, though, and the ability probably comes late in the class.


It's the Seeker (level 1 or 2) actually! :) You can activate two songs (from bard, seeker, whatever singing class you have) as a Standard Action. Most Seeker songs have a refrain that does a type of damage (fire, cold, lightning, acid, sonic) that can be activated as a Swift Action without ending the original song. That's where the damage portion of the PrC comes into play *drool* I had thought I could begin two songs on one round and activate both of their refrains one round later, but I guess I can only do one refrain at a time :( Or can you sub a Swift Action for a Move Action in a round? *shrug*
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Postby Gormal » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:19 pm

Can we see what they're wielding at all from this distance? At least can we see a bow or not being wielded? They're 60 feet away so its going to take us at least 2 rounds to even get to them right? How close exactly is our group, I assume fairly close so we can essentially move together.

I'd like to draw a weapon and just move towards them since none of my spells last long enough to bother casting yet. But should I wait for one of the humans to get in front first since I'm out in front currently?

Edit: Spells prepared are...

0:

Fleeting Fame(DR326 p73)
<Ill>
– Receive a +2 bonus on the next Bluff,
Diplomacy, or Intimidate check.

Light(PH p248)
<Evoc>
– Object touched gives off bright light in a 20’
radius & dim light for another 20’.
This spell Counters and Dispels spells with the
[darkness] category of equal or lower level.

Detect Magic(PH p219)
<Div>
– The caster can see the Magic Aura of a spell
or item in a 60’ Cone-shaped Emanation.
The information gained increases each round:
1st round – presence of magic.
2nd round – number of magic auras & the
strength of the most powerful aura. If not
in line-of-sight, the caster only knows the
direction.
3rd round – strength & location of each aura.
If an aura is within line-of-sight, the caster
can identify its school with a Spellcraft
check vs. DC 15 + spell level.
This spell is blocked by 3’ of wood or dirt, 1’ of
stone, 1â€
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:43 pm

The suggestion has been made by WotC that a limit of five free actions per round be implemented for all characters. Now, normally, you would never even figure out a way to usefully spend five free actions in a single round... this rule was implemented to prevent rules abuse and infinite loopholes.

Want to see one? Let me set up the situation:

My character has the Quick Draw feat, which allows him to draw a weapon as a free action rather than a move action. It is a free action to drop a held item on the ground. My character has fire resistance 5, which means that each time he is dealt fire damage, he ignores the first five points. My character also has a Bag of Holding full to the top with Alchemist's Fire.

My turn. I move adjacent to my enemy. As a free action, I draw a vial of Alchemist's Fire. As a free action, I drop it on the ground and it breaks, dealing 1 point of fire damage to everyone within 5' of me. I draw another vial as a free action. I drop it as a free action. I repeat this until everyone within 5' of me is dead from fire damage. I am unscathed because my fire resistance negates the damage to myself.

This isn't a practical method of attack, but it illustrates a rules loophole :)
- Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:44 pm

Also, if Gormal's Wisdom is higher than 12, he should have a bonus first-level spell. He will have 2 first level spells of his choice, and 1 first level domain spell.
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Postby Gormal » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:59 pm

Koray.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:42 am

Jakeypoo.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:58 pm

Birile wrote:It's the Seeker (level 1 or 2) actually! :) You can activate two songs (from bard, seeker, whatever singing class you have) as a Standard Action. Most Seeker songs have a refrain that does a type of damage (fire, cold, lightning, acid, sonic) that can be activated as a Swift Action without ending the original song. That's where the damage portion of the PrC comes into play *drool* I had thought I could begin two songs on one round and activate both of their refrains one round later, but I guess I can only do one refrain at a time :( Or can you sub a Swift Action for a Move Action in a round? *shrug*


Ha! You can tell that I haven't looked at that PrC recently, though I have in the past. ;) I think the point of constructing it that way is to limit you to one refrain at a time. I don't recall if you can perform a swift action as a move action, but you can probably perform one as a standard action.

Ragorn:

You can actually do that without the Quick Draw feat, provided that you have a potion belt (from the FR books.) It basically gives you Quick Draw for potions (though you might run out of capacity before killing everyone around you.) The drop trick is, IIRC, a little more efficient with vials of acid and acid resist 5, but even then I agree it's silly. Mostly I see the limit on free actions used to discourage someone from taking Iaijutsu Master and quick drawing/dropping several swords in one round.

Oh yes, and a fun fact for any rules sticklers out there - if you have a lot of divine ranks, your limit on free actions per round increases dramatically. (If you're in a divine party, though, many of the game's rules and assumptions tend to break down, so it's mostly a RPing exercise anyway.)

Gormal:

I just need the names of spells on your sheet. I suggest a format like:

SPELLS: 3 2
0th - fleeting fame, light, detect magic
1st - Bless x2

(In case you're wondering, I don't capitalize the names of 0th level spells - this is so that when I look at them on a sheet I instantly recognize that they are minor spells.)

Thanks!
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:43 pm

So, the fight is 60' from where we are, right? My radius is only 30, so I can move toward them this round but I can't actually attack since I am hand to hand, correct?
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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:55 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:So, the fight is 60' from where we are, right? My radius is only 30, so I can move toward them this round but I can't actually attack since I am hand to hand, correct?


If you have 30' move, you can take a Charge action to move up to 60' (twice your base move) and attack. Your AC drops by 2 for one round but you get a +2 to the attack.

So, in short, you can get a charge in and thereby attack. Note that the swordsmen haven't come up in initiative yet, so they are flat-footed (lose dex bonus to AC, if any.)

EDIT: This would be true if you were next in initiative. You aren't. My mistake.
Last edited by moritheil on Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'

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Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
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Postby Birile » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:22 pm

moritheil wrote:
Arilin Nydelahar wrote:So, the fight is 60' from where we are, right? My radius is only 30, so I can move toward them this round but I can't actually attack since I am hand to hand, correct?


If you have 30' move, you can take a Charge action to move up to 60' (twice your base move) and attack. Your AC drops by 2 for one round but you get a +2 to the attack.

So, in short, you can get a charge in and thereby attack. Note that the swordsmen haven't come up in initiative yet, so they are flat-footed (lose dex bonus to AC, if any.)


Unfortunately, Thalidyrr is the last on the initiative list for this combat, which means he (and Tasan, for what it's worth) is flat-footed against any potential attacks from the swordsmen (who come up first)--right?

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