Errants of Waterdeep [OOC Thread]

Discussion concerning the upcoming Toril 2.0 update as well as general 3.5 edition D&D discussion
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:07 pm

Tasan wrote:As I understand it, under the rules of charging, Koray is in my way so I can't actually charge the old man. He did seem to be out of line-of-sight to get to Dwylt though. So what is the actual case? Obviously I would want to charge the old man if that is possible...

Also w/ the map not having grids or whatever, it is hard to know how far 30 or 60 feet technically is...


Ah, you're right. As for "he did seem to be out of line-of-sight to get to Dwylt," I'm not entirely sure which character you're referring to. If it's the white-haired man, he and Dwylt started the combat pretty much right next to each other. If it's Tasan, well, if you're taking a double move you don't have to move in a straight line. That rule applies to charges and to running, but not to moves.

For reference, Koray should be about 40' from Dwylt. I realize this would get easier with a grid, but I don't have time to make an exacting grid diagram. Those things take forever :(
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Postby Tasan » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:44 pm

moritheil wrote:I'm not entirely sure which character you're referring to.


Referring to Koray. He's in the way of my line-of-sight to the old man, not to Dwylt...

So can I charge the old man or not?
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Postby moritheil » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:14 am

Tasan wrote:
moritheil wrote:I'm not entirely sure which character you're referring to.


Referring to Koray. He's in the way of my line-of-sight to the old man, not to Dwylt...

So can I charge the old man or not?


Ah. I'm afraid not. However, moving next to him does mean that you will get an AOO should he attempt a coup-de-grace on Dwylt. It is still tactically sound.


Btw, Thalidyrr can just charge and attack the man. He has a clear line.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:18 am

Thalidyrr has just rolled a natural 20, meaning he threatens a critical.

He should roll again to confirm a critical hit.

(FWIW, you also neglected the +2 to attack from charging. You get +2 to attack when charging and take -2 to AC for one round.)
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:29 am

moritheil wrote:Thalidyrr has just rolled a natural 20, meaning he threatens a critical.

He should roll again to confirm a critical hit.

(FWIW, you also neglected the +2 to attack from charging. You get +2 to attack when charging and take -2 to AC for one round.)


PM'd this question but figured i'd write it ehre too. Critical roll = ? 1d20 +anything, or?

also the +2.. that goes on the second roll which is damage, or the roll with the natural 20?
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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:28 am

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
moritheil wrote:Thalidyrr has just rolled a natural 20, meaning he threatens a critical.

He should roll again to confirm a critical hit.

(FWIW, you also neglected the +2 to attack from charging. You get +2 to attack when charging and take -2 to AC for one round.)


PM'd this question but figured i'd write it ehre too. Critical roll = ? 1d20 +anything, or?

also the +2.. that goes on the second roll which is damage, or the roll with the natural 20?


Sorry. I should have been explicit. The way criticals work is this:

1. You roll your normal attack roll, and if it happens to naturally fall within your critical range, that attack doesn't count. Most weapons have critical threat ranges of 20 or 19-20, meaning a natural roll of 20 (or, in the latter case, a natural 19 or 20) is a "critical threat."

2. You roll your normal attack roll again. If it hits, you "confirm the critical" and you multiply the damage you deal by your critical multiplier, unless the enemy is immune.

3. You don't multiply bonus damage dice such as from sneak attack or Iaijutsu Focus (obscure OA rule, don't worry about it). DMs disagree as to whether all bonus damage that is not expressed in dice should be multiplied (i.e. Power Attack can get pretty wild with, say, a x4 critical.)

4. There are certain shenanigans that you can pull with criticals that make things really silly. DMs generally ban these tricks. For example, a pre-errata Nimblewright had a critical threat range of 12-20. Given spells like the paladin's bless weapon, which turned every threatened critical into an automatic hit, critical hit mechanics could be abused. (The spell hasn't changed, but the Nimblewright certainly has.)
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:24 am

Power Attack damage does multiply. Elemental damage, such as from a Frostbrand Sword, does not.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:42 pm

Still up there wrong Mike. Should be:

1d20(the crit roll) so = 20(don't worry about bonuses)

1d20(hit or miss?) to see if the crit connects...

1d6(stunning fists damage)

This is all w/o the bonuses from Morale, Charge and your Str, feel free to add those in.

In the case of the critical roll, the bonuses don't matter.

In the to hit and damage they do.

The damage rolled will be multiplied after the fact(if it hits) by your critical mod.

At least that's what I'm thinking.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:21 pm

Ragorn wrote:Power Attack damage does multiply. Elemental damage, such as from a Frostbrand Sword, does not.


That's how I run it. I have run into several DMs who don't multiply power attack on a critical, though (ostensibly for the reasons I listed.)

Tasan has the sequence right, though I would say that it's more of a special case when a 20 is rolled. You don't make a separate roll to see if you threaten a critical; instead you make an attack roll, look at what the number you actually rolled is, and in the special case of a 20 (or less, depending on the weapon) you make another attack roll to confirm.
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Postby Birile » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:20 pm

Well, let's hope Thalidyrr rolls well enough on his attack roll to confirm 'cause a critical on the white-haired guy would really help right about now! :)
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:23 am

Birile wrote:Well, let's hope Thalidyrr rolls well enough on his attack roll to confirm 'cause a critical on the white-haired guy would really help right about now! :)


Funny thing is I rolled another natural 20 :P
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:51 am

Monks rule! (When rolling damn good)
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Postby Gormal » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:47 am

How close do I have to be to heal Dwylt? And can I run and still take a regular action?
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Postby moritheil » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:56 am

Gormal wrote:How close do I have to be to heal Dwylt? And can I run and still take a regular action?


Pretty much all curative spells are touch spells. The spell Greater Status would allow you to cure someone without touching them, provided you cast that and touched them beforehand, but that's not available until you reach level 7 or so. The Hierophant prestige class also has an ability that extends the range of touch spells to 30', but you can't get that until your character is past level 10.

What I'm getting at is, the need to touch people to heal them is a fundamental limitation of divine casters. Mass cure and other such spells do have a range and are not touch, but they're sort of the exception to the rule of thumb that healers need to get in the thick of things.

So, you have to touch Dwylt to heal his wounds. You moved 1 move (20') before engaging the enemy in melee, and the initial distance separating you was 60'. As such, you'll need to double move to get there this turn, and you can cure him next turn. Fortunately, Dwylt has the -1 to -9 mortally wounded buffer and only goes down 1 hp per round, assuming he doesn't stabilize on his own (a 10% chance each round.) Of course, you don't know how far into that buffer he is . . .

And just to be thorough, you can't run and also take a standard action. Run is a full-round action.
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Postby Gormal » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:40 am

Can I charge the man like Arilin did?
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Postby moritheil » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:43 am

Gormal wrote:Can I charge the man like Arilin did?


Yes. Actually, that would probably be more efficient than a double move.
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Postby Birile » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:33 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Birile wrote:Well, let's hope Thalidyrr rolls well enough on his attack roll to confirm 'cause a critical on the white-haired guy would really help right about now! :)


Funny thing is I rolled another natural 20 :P


*hero*
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Postby Birile » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:00 pm

Mori, is anyone providing cover for the white-haired man? And where are the two remaining swordsmen at this point?
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Postby moritheil » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:26 pm

Birile wrote:Mori, is anyone providing cover for the white-haired man? And where are the two remaining swordsmen at this point?


I believe there's only one remaining swordsman, and he's running for his life. As for "cover," well, the monk is in between you and the white-haired man, so that grants the latter a soft cover bonus.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:16 pm

Updated my char sheet, think I actually did it right too!
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Postby moritheil » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:34 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Updated my char sheet, think I actually did it right too!


Looks pretty good. Remember, your skill cap goes up to 5 at level 2.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:52 pm

Happy New Year, and a quick reminder to those updating their sheets: The con mod is added at each level. So if you have a +1 con mod, at level 1 that would give you 1 extra hp, at level 2, 2 hp, etc.

Thus, total overall hps are Conmod * HD + HD rolled individually (max for the first one.)

A similar rule applies for int - if you get bonus skill points due to int, you got those points x4 at first level (since all skill points are x4 at 1st) and you continue to get skill points as determined by your class and intmod.
Last edited by moritheil on Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:07 pm

So I was reading more about my domains, and I see that if I have a throwing warhammer I'd be getting more attack bonuses. I assume that my hammer doesn't count since its not throwing, right? Also, slowing finishing this up. Not quite sure how it all works but I'm getting there, I'll update my sheet periodcally.

Did I do my hp right? I rolled 1d8 for 8 (woo!) and I have a +3 bonus on con. So its 8+ 3*2? Is that right? I'm gaining over double my hp?
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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:51 am

While I was pretty sure there was no distinction between the two, it looks like a warhammer cannot be thrown without special training, while a light hammer can be. That's odd. At any rate, my ruling is that the warhammer is Moradin's weapon. That means that you benefit from the War Domain granting Weapon Focus (+1 to hit.) That makes the most sense thematically (otherwise, why does the Hammer of Moradin PrC use the warhammer?)

Let me clarify my last post a bit. I just meant that you always add con mod, so if you have two levels you'd be adding your con mod twice overall (once for each level.) My concern was that people would roll their new HD and forget to add Con modifier.

In your case, 8+3 = 11, which you add to your prior hit point total of 13 to give 24 hps.

On an unrelated note, under Quick Draw you have listed "+1 BAB." IIRC no feat actually alters BAB, so it's a bit misleading to put that in the benefits section :) I'm also not sure where you get Quick Draw from - your feats come at 1, 3, 6, 9, etc. Humans get 2 feats at level 1, but characters normally only start with 1 feat. Fighters, of course, get bonus feats on top of that. Is Quick Draw just the next feat you intend to take?
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:53 am

Quick Draw requires a BAB of +1 or higher... it does not grant you +1 to your BAB. A first-level Cleric can't take Quick Draw, because Clerics at first level have +0 BAB.
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Postby Birile » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:03 pm

I think I like Invisible Castle. Here's my roll for Birile's new hp's.

Level 2 HD (1d6+3=9)

I'll post my updates to spells, skills and such throughout the day as I get a chance (I am at work).
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Postby Gormal » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:34 pm

I'm a level 2 cleric now tho so I get 1 BAB

I thought we got a new feat, my bad!

And Hammer of Moradin had some specifics on throwing warhammers, thoughI think the idea of a throwing warhammer is stupid. You'd HAVE to have a magical one that comes back to you.
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Postby Birile » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:58 pm

Gormal wrote:I'm a level 2 cleric now tho so I get 1 BAB

I thought we got a new feat, my bad!

And Hammer of Moradin had some specifics on throwing warhammers, thoughI think the idea of a throwing warhammer is stupid. You'd HAVE to have a magical one that comes back to you.


Isn't there a feat or special trait of the HoM that causes the hammer to return without having to actually have a returning hammer?
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Postby Birile » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:46 pm

Mori, my sheet is updated. Note that my skills include my synergy boni from having 5 ranks in Tumble and 5 ranks in Bluff--figured it would be more efficient to get the ranks in them for the synergy at this point than to spread out the actual ranks (I'll have time to do that later, or so I figure!).

RE: my roleplaying post--I forgot Khaiden's moving. So now I have a question about detect magic: do I just cast it on the area and anything within 30' with a magic aura will be discerned, or do I have to cast it on an actual object?
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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:32 pm

Detect magic basically covers a triangle out from you to 60'. Objects have to be within that "cone." Spell area cones are always as wide as they are long, so at 60' away from you, the triangle is 60' wide. In addition to detecting magic, if anyone has ranks in Appraise, that is usually a skill worth trying.

I do think that Hammer of Moradin grants the ability to make your warhammer return very early in the progression.

Hammer Return (Su): When the hammer of Moradin reaches 2nd level, any warhammer he throws gains the returning ability.


Koray does have a BAB of 1, but as I stated, it may be a little confusing to list it with the feats. Actually, at level 2, everyone ought to have a BAB of at least 1, unless the two levels are in different classes.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:43 pm

I believe the cure light wounds question would be 1d8+3 now that you are level 2.

Also for rolling 1, you will now be referred to as "1st year intern".
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Postby Gormal » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:56 pm

My heal roll sucks as bad as my damage rolls:(
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:37 pm

Mah cure light wounds brings all the boys to tha yard.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:10 pm

Mori,

Can you or someone in the little group roll the rope check for me? I'm at work and really can't access that till late this evening and I don't want to hold people up. I can accept whatever roll someone gets. (Watch it be a 1)
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Postby Birile » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:16 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Mori,

Can you or someone in the little group roll the rope check for me? I'm at work and really can't access that till late this evening and I don't want to hold people up. I can accept whatever roll someone gets. (Watch it be a 1)


Hey, how many ranks do you have in Escape Artist? You have it listed twice, one shows 7, the other shows 10 (6 + 3 doesn't equal 10, by the way :) ). I'm asking because 5 ranks in Escape Artist gives a +2 synergy bonus to Use Rope to bind an opponent.

Assuming you don't have 5 ranks in Escape Artist, here's a proxy roll if Mori accepts:

Use Rope (1d20+3=7)

...

FWIW, the +3 is from your dex bonus... add +2 (for a total of 9) if you have +5 in Escape Artist.

So, Mori--can't he take 10 or 20 on Use Rope? Or does that not apply when binding an opponent?
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Postby moritheil » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:35 pm

My understanding is that you generally cannot take 10 or 20 on an opposed check.

However, when binding someone, you do get a +10 bonus to your Use Rope check. Also, if someone wants to assist, there's a +2 circumstance bonus that can be applied.

Tasan is right in stating that a 2nd-level cleric with the Healing domain is effectively a 3rd-level caster for the purposes of cure spells.
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Postby Birile » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:47 pm

moritheil wrote:My understanding is that you generally cannot take 10 or 20 on an opposed check.

However, when binding someone, you do get a +10 bonus to your Use Rope check. Also, if someone wants to assist, there's a +2 circumstance bonus that can be applied.

Tasan is right in stating that a 2nd-level cleric with the Healing domain is effectively a 3rd-level caster for the purposes of cure spells.


Sweet :)
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Postby Birile » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:49 pm

Mori, did the detect magic pick up anything on the other items (swords, leathers, potions)? Also, does detect magic pick up magic on my person as well coughscrollcasecough or does it not detect magic on the caster him/herself?
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:59 pm

moritheil wrote:My understanding is that you generally cannot take 10 or 20 on an opposed check.


For taking 10, I don't see why not, provided you aren't in combat or otherwise distracted.

You can't take 20 on opposed rolls, because the action of taking 20 is basically "trying repeatedly until you get it right." It doesn't make sense to do that when bluffing or tying rope ;)
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Postby moritheil » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:28 pm

Birile wrote:Mori, did the detect magic pick up anything on the other items (swords, leathers, potions)? Also, does detect magic pick up magic on my person as well coughscrollcasecough or does it not detect magic on the caster him/herself?


Hmmm. I didn't see anyone state that they were moving the items in question into the area. However, for the record, only the potions are magical, radiating faint conjuration magic. I don't believe detect magic functions on yourself, though you could easily have pulled the scroll case out and positioned it accordingly before casting the spell. The scroll case radiates abjuration magic. In theory, there are a bunch of Spellcraft checks you should be making to determine this, but I believe it's best to speed things up.

In the future, perhaps players should just list out everything they hope to check when casting so I don't miss anything :)


Most opposed skill checks involve distractions or threats (i.e. the pressure is on if you're Bluffing your way past a guard, or using Sleight of Hand to steal his keys) so I don't generally see people taking 10. It may also be impossible to know how well you are doing and thus impossible to adjust (a la Disguise.) I suppose a case can be made that tying someone up is not an exercise where it is impossible to know how well you are doing. Certainly there is no immediate distraction or threat here.


Unrelated side note: I will be unavailable for up to a week starting tomorrow. Please use this time to interact, formulate plans, and discuss theories.

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Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:48 pm

Detect Magic lasts for as long as the caster concentrates, so it's feasible that the caster could turn the spell on and then case everything in the room to see what's magic and what's not. That's how we've typically used it, rather than defining a vision cone and trying to determine what's in the cone and what's not. Figuring out whether something is magical is such a fundamental mechanic in D&D that I personally don't see the need to obfuscate it.

Just my opinion though :) YMMV. And I see what you mean about the Bluff checks, I think that one's up to discretion and DM judgement.
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moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:55 pm

Yeah, I am being a rules stickler, perhaps excessively so due to the teaching aspect of this campaign.

As ever, thanks for weighing in!

Also, to the campaigners - Minthka's government is probably affiliated with Waterdeep's to the extent that their justice programs cooperate.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'

Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'

Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Arilin Nydelahar
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:15 pm

moritheil wrote:Also, to the campaigners - Minthka's government is probably affiliated with Waterdeep's to the extent that their justice programs cooperate.


Indeed. Edited the post reflecting that.
Shevarash OOC: 'what can I say, I'm attracted to crazy chicks and really short dudes'
Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:21 am

Jake...

Tasan wrote:I believe the cure light wounds question would be 1d8+3 now that you are level 2.


C'mon buddy, you can do it :p
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Postby Gormal » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:55 pm

Bugger off!

thanks doug
Birile
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Postby Birile » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:27 pm

Mori,

In regard to the loot--is it generally assumed that all items fit all types of characters (as in the case of Toril), or are they of varying sizes? And if no description is given, is that size considered Medium? If so... what is the impact of a Small character wearing armor fit for a Medium character, or wielding a weapon made for a Medium character?
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:54 pm

First off, here's a general table for size, even though it isn't what you asked about.

Here's the weapon size table. If you use incorrectly sized weapons, you take a penalty.

SRD wrote:A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.


I don't believe you can wear wrongly sized armor at all (though a shield can be a weapon, so you can still equip that.)

Magic items (rings, helms, bracers, etc) resize, but armor and weapons in 3.5 do not resize unless they have the resizing property. I imagine Toril 2.0 will smooth over this wrinkle by houseruling that armor and weapons also resize.
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'

Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'

Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:00 pm

Yeah, I always houserule that armor resizes once, upon acquisition. It's not realistic and it's one of my more metagame-based house rules, but it's just such a pain in the ass to play a Small-sized character when appropriately sized equipment never seems to make itself available.
- Ragorn
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Birile
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Postby Birile » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:23 pm

Ragorn wrote:it's just such a pain in the ass to play a Small-sized character when appropriately sized equipment never seems to make itself available.


Amen. :(
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:04 pm

Goods will be available in Minthka, should you desire to buy/sell and upgrade. There is certainly no shortage of adventurers passing through that area, so there will be small- and large-sized items as well as medium.

Incidentally, if people are almost done with their actions following combat, let me know if the group is pressing on or camping so I can set the stage accordingly.

Finally, if there are any more levelup-related questions, post them!
Yotus group-says 'special quest if you type hi dragon'

Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'

Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'

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