Toril 2.0: Q&A

Discussion concerning the upcoming Toril 2.0 update as well as general 3.5 edition D&D discussion
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:22 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Ooooooh, and is Wild Magic going to be a possibility in 2.0?


Yes - rooms and zones can be flagged as Wild Magic. I imagine we'll find some existing areas to add this to, but for the most part it will probably be a feature of new zones where appropriate.
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:42 pm

Question about spell schools. Now, this may stem from the fact that I'm much more familiar with 3.5 D&D than I am with present-day Toril. This question is probably better off in the Magic thread, but this being the Q&A thread, I figured I'd stick it here.

In 3.5 D&D, it's very widely accepted that there is one school of magic in particular that EVERY Wizard drops when he specializes. There's one school of magic that is almost universally considered to be underpowered, unusable, and completely dispensible. As a result, virtually every Wizard specialist chooses to ban it.

That school is Evocation.

In D&D, Wizards who do damage are doing a disservice to themselves and their party. Yes, you CAN build a Fireball Mage, but there are so many other, better options for combat that a Wizard who spends his time casting Disintegrate isn't playing up to his full potential. Simply put, there are plenty of classes who are able to deal damage, but the Wizard is the only guy in the room who can cast walls, dominate monsters, teleport the party, conjure illusions, drain levels, and so forth.

This is very much at odds with the way Toril Invokers work. To my understanding, Invokers are still a very significant (if not the primary) source of damage for Toril groups. My question is, do you plan to change this focus or keep it the way it is? A lot of people are going to want to spec Evoker, just because that's the way Toril has worked for the last decade. In converting the game engine and the areas toward Toril 2.0, how will Evocation balance with the other spell schools? How will Meteor Swarm, Bigby's Crushing Hand, and Incendiary Cloud compare with Dominate Monster, Energy Drain, Summon Monster IX, and Polymorph Any Object?
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:32 pm

Ragorn wrote: My question is, do you plan to change this focus or keep it the way it is? A lot of people are going to want to spec Evoker, just because that's the way Toril has worked for the last decade. In converting the game engine and the areas toward Toril 2.0, how will Evocation balance with the other spell schools? How will Meteor Swarm, Bigby's Crushing Hand, and Incendiary Cloud compare with Dominate Monster, Energy Drain, Summon Monster IX, and Polymorph Any Object?


Well, this is kind of a difficult question to answer, let me see if I can sum it up. Due to the complete reworking of the combat engine, damage from non-casters is now much much more competitive with magical damage. Also, area spells all come with preset Radius's which distribute the damage differently. Whereas in the past an area spell did equal damage to everyone it hit, that damage is more likely now to do the most at the center of the radius with diminishing returns the farther out you get. In other words, the old methodology of area nuking everything to death isn't really all that effective anymore.

I'm sure Evokers and Evocation in general will still be a fun and useful class/school, but it will no longer reign supreme in dealing damage. Some people enjoy playing the current Invoker class just because it does away with all the complexities of playing other mages, and Evoker will still be a good choice for that kind of playing style.

Finally, I've tried very hard to expand the role of the other schools of magic. Conjuration has a ton of summoning spells with a wide variety of creatures to summon, charm/dominate effects are much more fleshed out for the enchantment school and include things like confusion and command....there's just a lot of things for mages to do outside of stoning and nuking.

I didn't do a good job of "summing it up", did I? The point here is that the players now have a choice, and while not every school of magic is going to be completely equal they are all viable choices. I hope that answers your question, Ragorn.
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:06 pm

It does, and I'm sure all of the schools of magic will be viable. To be honest, I wasn't really asking a question, just prompting a little more information about mages in general. Mage subclasses are going to change VASTLY from the way they are now, and I think it's good for people to get excited about all of the non-damage offensive capability that Wizards have on the spell list.

Damage is great, I love damage. Presented with two giants in a room, you can certainly cast your nukes in descending order until both giants are dead. Or... you can throw a Wall of Force around them both and Dominate one, then force them to fight each other to the death. I'm hoping that Toril 2.0 lends itself to these types of solutions, moreso than the ol' "Bring More Invokers" strategy.
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Postby Cirath » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:30 pm

Shevarash wrote:darkvision will work jsut as ultra does now.


I hope you don't mean that it will blind you in lit rooms, in addition to letting you see in the dark.
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:44 pm

Cirath wrote:
Shevarash wrote:darkvision will work jsut as ultra does now.


I hope you don't mean that it will blind you in lit rooms, in addition to letting you see in the dark.


I was referring to it letting you see in the dark in both the room you are in and adjacent rooms.. The dayblind aspect of Darkvision (nee Ultravision) is another issue entirely...
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Postby Birile » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:43 pm

Birile wrote:Speaking of which, Shev, can you go into a little more detail about something you mentioned before about how we would be finding spell scrolls from which to learn new spells, etc.? How exactly is this going to work? Am I going to be exping in Druid Sanc and a scroll will pop off one of the giants? Are there going to be specific mobs which carry specific scrolls? Will the scrolls be completely random on completely random mobs (except maybe completely level-based so high-level mobs have high-level spell scrolls, low-level mobs have low-level spell scrolls)? Just what sort of variety in spell scroll loading are we talking here?? Anything else you may want to add which might be of relevance would be appreciated as well. :)


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Postby Shevarash » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:19 pm

Birile wrote:Speaking of which, Shev, can you go into a little more detail about something you mentioned before about how we would be finding spell scrolls from which to learn new spells, etc.? How exactly is this going to work? Am I going to be exping in Druid Sanc and a scroll will pop off one of the giants? Are there going to be specific mobs which carry specific scrolls? Will the scrolls be completely random on completely random mobs (except maybe completely level-based so high-level mobs have high-level spell scrolls, low-level mobs have low-level spell scrolls)? Just what sort of variety in spell scroll loading are we talking here?? Anything else you may want to add which might be of relevance would be appreciated as well. :)


Sorry for missing this question before, Birile. I don't want to get too far into the specifics of how this will work, as that would take some of the mystery away if you knew the exact method in which spells will be distributued, but I can go into the basics of it:

Every class has a 'base' spell list, these are spells which you get from your guildmaster and cover all of your basic spells. You can add to your spell list by looking for scrolls in shops, or on random spell casting mobs. Shops with random scrolls will generally be lower level spells, and casting mobs will drop random spells appropriate to their level - so you won't find a 10th circle spell on a 4th level caster or anything silly like that. There will also be specific spells placed on specific mobs that can never be found randomly by other means. You will also find mobs that are set to drop a random super-rare spell of a certain level. Quest spells will be just like they are now.

In short - you can build your spell list by exploring shops and getting random drops off of casters. There will also be powerful spells given out as zone loot or on rare mobs. Some zones will give you the same spell everytime, others will give something different every time its done.

These spells all come in the form of scrolls which you can copy into your spellbook (or simply read if you are not an arcane caster) and are single-use only - meaning every caster has to collect their own spells. Just to be clear - your base spells will cover all of the usual staples that you're used to, so you won't have to hunt around to find basics like heal, or stoneskin. There are quite a few "extra" spells that fall into the other categories though, and that is the pool that we will most likely be updating on a regular basis. I think that building a spell list will be a lot of fun for any casting class.

I hope that answers your question.
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Very cool Shev! I've always wanted a MUD to implement a spell-obtaining system like that! I think it adds a lot to the feel of a spell system when you can find spells while adventuring, rahter than just buying them at a guild master.


So I guess the follow up questions are:

1) Will there be anything fun like this for non-casters? Perhaps special skills or feats?

2) Will quest spells range across levels, or only be for high level? I'd love to see quests to get spells for low level characters as well...

EDIT 3) Also, shall we assume this only applies to arcane spellcasters? Or will there be some arrangement made for divine spellcasters to earn spells in a similar manner? Perhaps sacrificing/donating certain special objects grants access to new spells..?
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Postby Botef » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:04 am

Will copying a spell from a scroll to your books come with a chance of failure or will you always succeed? Will skills/feats be added in conjunction to this like decipher script or read magic (i.e. some spells will require skills/feats/knowledge to read and copy to your spellbook)? I assume it will still be possible for us to make copies of our own spell books for backups (?) - but will we be able to copy all of our spells or just the base ones? Will teach be completely removed for all spells, or will we still be able to teach other players some spells, like the base spells you mentioned above.

Sounds like a sweet system that will vary what one particular caster has vs. another as well as adding something to the 'to-do' list when nothing else is going on. Can't wait to hear more.
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Weaopns and Trolls

Postby Akadees » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:49 am

[code]I have two questions.

1. D&D 3.5 has different sized weapons. You can have a spear sized for a halfling (small), a human (medium), or a troll (large). Weapons can also be built for two hands, one hand or offhand. Will the new weapons take into account different weapon sizes and number of hands?

2. Trollls in D&D have what is know as troll get up. No matter how badly you kill em if you don't burn or put them in acid they will eventually regen. Will trolls now have troll get up and will we be able to burn em to make sure they don't get up?
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Postby moritheil » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:38 am

I just want to note a few things.

Akadees - That's hardly specific to trolls. It's a function of all creatures with regeneration. In 3.5, there are quite a few spells that either kill regenerating creatures without resorting to hit point damage (e.g. enervation), or destroy the remains and do not allow them to regenerate (disintegrate-type spells.) Additionally, nothing prevents your party from landing a hundred coup-de-graces on a KOed regenerating mob, thereby ensuring that it will take months to regain consciousness, and moving on.

Codewise, I think that might be a little bit cumbersome to implement.

Ragorn - I missed the "Evocation is useless" arc when you posted it, but allow me to point out that certain splatbooks gave tremendous power to other schools (most notably conjuration) and consequently largely robbed the evocation school of its niche. Why be an evoker when you might instead be a conjurer casting conjuration spells that do comparable damage and ignore SR?

As such, the problem is not solely that evocation is inherently useless, which seems to be the position argued in prior posts. In 3.5, it is not good to specialize in evocation because a conjurer or variant transmuter can be just as good a blaster mage while retaining an edge in summoning or buff spells.

Of course, regarding blasting in general, it is true that 3.5 was built to encourage various methods of problem-solving (witness the ridiculously easy static Diplomacy DCs that are the scourge of nearly every DM) and to reward high-DC builds with a plethora of viable save-or-die spells. However, the problem facing evokers is not just that straight damage doesn't cut it (IMHO that is debatable), but that they don't even excel at straight damage.
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Postby Cirath » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:15 pm

moritheil wrote:Akadees - That's hardly specific to trolls. It's a function of all creatures with regeneration. In 3.5, there are quite a few spells that either kill regenerating creatures without resorting to hit point damage (e.g. enervation), or destroy the remains and do not allow them to regenerate (disintegrate-type spells.) Additionally, nothing prevents your party from landing a hundred coup-de-graces on a KOed regenerating mob, thereby ensuring that it will take months to regain consciousness, and moving on.


Let us not forget that damage taken from suffocation is not regenerated, so why not just bring a length of rope or two and string them up once youve bloodied them. Or, for that matter, KO the beast and smother him with a pillow.
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Skills

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Not sure if it's brought up before or not, and part of me thinks the answer is obvious, but:

Will spending time to maximize certain skills in each class have any relevance in 2.0? Meaning, if I spend now 304 hours to max out 1h misc, will it show as being 'maxed' in 2.0? Or will the system be so different that it will not matter in the least?

Hope my question is clear.

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Re: Skills

Postby Cirath » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:36 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Will spending time to maximize certain skills in each class have any relevance in 2.0? Meaning, if I spend now 304 hours to max out 1h misc, will it show as being 'maxed' in 2.0? Or will the system be so different that it will not matter in the least?


Unless I am horribly mistaken, there will be no more skill practice in the new system. You will buy your skills with a skill point pool, the size of which is based on your class and intelligence (and, if you are human, your race). You will no longer need to spend five weeks whiffing at the spirit mastiff or spamming hide and having the gods wonder if you are botting. I imagine this is part of the reduction of time sinks that has been advertised.
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:19 am

Evocation or not, Wizards generally have better things to do with their combat rounds than dealing damage. The Orb spells, which you are alluding to, top out at 4th level. For your 4th level spell you could do some guaranteed (no saving throw) spell damage... or you could Polymorph yourself, grapple half the battlefield with Evard's Black Tentacles, make a new friend with Charm Monster, send someone on a Lesser Geas, throw an area-effect Fear, or any number of other things. And that's just core material.

So the big "problem" is that damage dealing in general is vaguely underpowered compared to Wizards' other options. The corollary problem is that Evocation is mostly damage, with very few critical utility spells mixed in. The only two Evocation spells in core that I consider really painful to lose are Contingency and Wall of Force... and you can duplicate Contingency with Shadow Conjuration, and there are plenty of other walls to use.

By contrast, you can say "I don't ever want to summon monsters, I'll take Conjuration as a prohibited school." Well that's great, but all of the Teleport spells are Conjuration... so if you ever want to teleport, dimension door, or relocate, you can't drop Conjuration.

Abjuration? Dispel Magic is Abjuration, as is stoneskin (and presumably dragonscales). So are all the elemental resistance spells, and several dozen other awesome defensive spells.

Enchantment? Pshaw, Enchantment has some of the best save-or-suffer spells in the game, such as dominate monster. You can do without it certainly, but why deal damage when a failed saving throw can mean instant death (or worse)?

Transmutation? You lose Time Stop... nuff said. Also Disintegrate, all of the stat booster spells, and Polymorph.

Illusion and Necromancy are the other two schools I would consider dropping, but they both have their winners. Illusion has invisibility and a lot of psuedo-enchantment spells, and Necromancy has energy drain, the best debuff in the game bar none (also, lots of save-or-die).

You can make a good living being an Evocation blaster, I suppose. Damage is certainly worth doing, and if all else fails, it never hurts to be able to put 100 points of fire damage in a mob's face. But my fear is that a lot of Toril players, who have spent a decade around Invokers, are going to automatically assume that Evocation is the "correct" spec choice for Wizards who want to play an offensive game.
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:28 am

You really need to have a talk with my gaming group. I get yelled at if I cast anything that doesn't cause damage... :(
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:17 am

In the epic campaign I'm playing in, our Ultimate Magus (Wizard/Sorcerer hybrid class) cast a Maximized Polar Ray at the Great Wyrm Gold Dragon we were fighting.

We had an intervention for him. I don't think it will happen again :)
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Postby Tasan » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:19 am

Ragorn wrote:We had an intervention for him. I don't think it will happen again :)


If you tried to tell me how to play my role in an rpg, my foot would have an intervention with your ass.

If someone wants to nuke, more power to them. Who gives a rat's ass if other spells are potentially more beneficial. You've used the word pigeonhole a lot lately, you'd think you'd realize that's exactly what you're doing. Maybe we should change it to ppg instead and just talk about power gaming all day.

The point of the new systems is to allow for a wider variety of choices for each individual to make. The second you start breaking things down and over analyzing everything is the moment this game goes from being fun to being right back to where we are now.
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Postby flib » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:07 am

i feel noobish for even posting this but.. whatever.. ok.. so what about people like me who really have no background in d&d besides playing toril.. honestly it kinda freaks me out a little thinking about my 50'th level character having all these new choices and not knowing damn near what to do.. what are you gonna put in to help us get used to it.. cuz it seems like all the old stuff is changing and.. truthfully.. to this longtime torilite.. that's a bit intimidating.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:41 pm

flib wrote:i feel noobish for even posting this but.. whatever.. ok.. so what about people like me who really have no background in d&d besides playing toril.. honestly it kinda freaks me out a little thinking about my 50'th level character having all these new choices and not knowing damn near what to do.. what are you gonna put in to help us get used to it.. cuz it seems like all the old stuff is changing and.. truthfully.. to this longtime torilite.. that's a bit intimidating.


I asked that too several months ago .. and yes it does look like we are going to get help ..

I have NO clue on d&d, this is all MORE than intimidating to me .. but at the same time I feel that it is our duty to read up on d&d before toril 2.0 comes in sot hat we are somewhat informed, so we know which path to take, etc..
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Postby Tasan » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:58 pm

[Edited out references to posts that have since been removed --Shev]

Shev -

As far as equipment goes, have you added to the number of extras that each item can have? Have you made allowances for setting resistances to damage types for armor? Does encumberance play a more important role in combat/movement then just a direct hit to AC and do coins carried count against encumberance as much as now? Also, I still haven't really seen anything addressing the golf bag problem w/ warriors...
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Postby Auril » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:21 pm

Good time to get back on track. :)

I agree with the intimidation factor of 2.0. I did tabletop - back when it was Basic, and Advanced, and AD&D was 'the new thing.' :P I moved to different gaming systems from there, and didn't have much exposure at all to 3.5. However, there's a lot of discussion about 3.5 in the Errants of Waterdeep threads, and they should be a good resource. :)
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:36 pm

Will rangers/druids get animal companions?

How will favored enemies be handled?
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:14 pm

Ambar wrote:
flib wrote:i feel noobish for even posting this but.. whatever.. ok.. so what about people like me who really have no background in d&d besides playing toril.. honestly it kinda freaks me out a little thinking about my 50'th level character having all these new choices and not knowing damn near what to do.. what are you gonna put in to help us get used to it.. cuz it seems like all the old stuff is changing and.. truthfully.. to this longtime torilite.. that's a bit intimidating.


I asked that too several months ago .. and yes it does look like we are going to get help ..

I have NO clue on d&d, this is all MORE than intimidating to me .. but at the same time I feel that it is our duty to read up on d&d before toril 2.0 comes in sot hat we are somewhat informed, so we know which path to take, etc..


Truly, this just means I get to start buying D&D Books right? Right?
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Postby Ambar » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:23 pm

Arilin, Arilin, Arilin ..

there is this new thing called the World Wide Web .. not sure if it will stay around or not, seems kind of hokey to talk to people you dont even know! .. but can try to use it during its last fleeting moments to read up on ad&d i am QUITE sure..
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:31 pm

http://www.d20srd.org/

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<b>Shevy</b>

You know, all along I've been assuming this is based off of 3E rather than 3.5 for some reason. Since I'm now thinking it's 3.5 I have another question:

Rangers aren't going to see a HD drop are they?
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Re: Skills

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:43 pm

Cirath wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Will spending time to maximize certain skills in each class have any relevance in 2.0? Meaning, if I spend now 304 hours to max out 1h misc, will it show as being 'maxed' in 2.0? Or will the system be so different that it will not matter in the least?


Unless I am horribly mistaken, there will be no more skill practice in the new system. You will buy your skills with a skill point pool, the size of which is based on your class and intelligence (and, if you are human, your race). You will no longer need to spend five weeks whiffing at the spirit mastiff or spamming hide and having the gods wonder if you are botting. I imagine this is part of the reduction of time sinks that has been advertised.


Yeah I know Cirath, that's kinda what I figured as well. BUT, will we be able to use our accrued points towards the 2.0 skills? Meaning if I have maxed all my skills as whatever class I am currently, can I have more points later in 2.0 for skills and whatnot? No clue!
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:09 pm

Tasan wrote:If you tried to tell me how to play my role in an rpg, my foot would have an intervention with your ass.

Don't worry, if you were playing in my game, you'd find yourself thrown out on the front porch long before it came to that.
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Re: Skills

Postby Ragorn » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:12 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Yeah I know Cirath, that's kinda what I figured as well. BUT, will we be able to use our accrued points towards the 2.0 skills? Meaning if I have maxed all my skills as whatever class I am currently, can I have more points later in 2.0 for skills and whatnot? No clue!

In D&D, you accrue skill points based on level, not based on how much you practice.

To put it coldly, if Shev imports the D&D system as written in the pen and paper game, your accrued skill levels would have no impact on your 2.0 skills. He may make a compromise somehow, but a straight conversion wouldn't give you any advantage for having 100 Hide as opposed to 50.
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:29 pm

From what I've gathered so far, we'll still have level 50 characters, and we'll have all the skills points available to us that any other level 50 character would have, then we'll be able to allot those points as we see fit. Having our skills already maxed won't make any difference once we go to 2.0, but it also won't keep us from learning new skills that we don't already have.

Say... you're a rogue and you want to learn a non-rogue skill. You just take part of that mass of level 50 skill points and slot them right into whatever skill it is that you're interested in. If you always thought "shadow" was a worthless skill, you just ditch it and use the skill points somebody else might use for it in something else.

It's going to be a complete rebuild. You're just not going to have to start at level 1 to get there.
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:34 pm

Okay, that brings up another question for me.

It was stated that mages are going to have spells that they "find" out in the game world. That's a great concept, and I heartily applaud it.

But what about melee classes, when they've hit fifty and there are no more skill points to get? Are we just back to the equipment grind, or will there be other ways for us to continually invest in our characters? I don't like the idea of us being able to get unlimited skills points in any fashion, so that after a couple of years we have every possible skill maxed, but I would still like to see some form of "continuing education" available that would serve as a form of alternate time and interest investment.
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Postby moritheil » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:45 pm

Regarding people learning 3.5 . . . you're welcome to ask questions in this forum; that's what it's here for! :P

Ragorn wrote:In the epic campaign I'm playing in, our Ultimate Magus (Wizard/Sorcerer hybrid class) cast a Maximized Polar Ray at the Great Wyrm Gold Dragon we were fighting.

We had an intervention for him. I don't think it will happen again :)


That specific use of a spell slot is basically a waste; I agree. Of course, this does not mean that straight damage is not good to cast in some situations. I've found that IMCs people who cast lots of damage tend to take sudden widen and sudden maximize, and with those feats, damage is a perfectly viable choice. Subdual substitution is also a very useful feat.

Most nondamaging things allow saves. Whether or not it is wise to cast them is therefore a function of your own save DCs and the DM's ability or inability to min/max saves on the enemies you face. Successful saves or SR mean that a mob totally ignores your conditional spell, be it save-or-die, debuff, or something situational. Damage is the one thing that can be relied upon to stack with everything your teammates do, and thus some people find arcane damage utterly essential. On the other hand, dealing damage is obviously less impressive than just having someone instantly drop dead or convert to your cause.

It boils down to taste.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:35 pm

Sarvis wrote:
1) Will there be anything fun like this for non-casters? Perhaps special skills or feats?

2) Will quest spells range across levels, or only be for high level? I'd love to see quests to get spells for low level characters as well...

3) Also, shall we assume this only applies to arcane spellcasters? Or will there be some arrangement made for divine spellcasters to earn spells in a similar manner? Perhaps sacrificing/donating certain special objects grants access to new spells..?



1) There won't be special skills for sure - special feats is a possibility but not something I'd planned on. There will for sure be some interesting collection aspects for equipment that applies most heavily to non-casters, but you will have to wait for a pending announcement to learn more about this.

2) What we traditionally think of as "quest spells" are top circle spells which often requires a long and arduous quest to receive the spell. We'll still have spells like that obviously, but there's no reason why we can't create quests for the lower level rare spells instead of just placing them on a mob. The difficulty of these would scale based on the level of the spell. So to answer your question - Yes, there can be quests to receive rare low level spells, but don't expect the same level of effort for old school style spell quests.

3) Divine spell casters can find and learn uncommon/rare spells as well. The only difference is that they read from the scroll one time instead of scribing it. Admittedly, there are more arcane spells out there to be found, but divine casters have not been left out of the fun. Of course, you can only learn/scribe from a scroll that contains a spell that is suitable for your class. To answer your next probable question - yes, that means there will be rare spells only for Rangers to collect. :)
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:53 pm

Botef wrote:Will copying a spell from a scroll to your books come with a chance of failure or will you always succeed? Will skills/feats be added in conjunction to this like decipher script or read magic (i.e. some spells will require skills/feats/knowledge to read and copy to your spellbook)? I assume it will still be possible for us to make copies of our own spell books for backups (?) - but will we be able to copy all of our spells or just the base ones? Will teach be completely removed for all spells, or will we still be able to teach other players some spells, like the base spells you mentioned above.


Scribing has been completely rewritten. There is no chance to fail a scribe and you don't need any special spells/skills/feats to accomplish - assuming you are an arcane caster. You can still make backups of all of your spells - base and acquired. Scribing is much faster and less restrictive in other actions you can complete. There is also a built-in function to copy an entire spell book to a new one.

Teaching spells has been removed however. This was done to ensure that players have to find their own spells.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:56 pm

Botef wrote:Will copying a spell from a scroll to your books come with a chance of failure or will you always succeed? Will skills/feats be added in conjunction to this like decipher script or read magic (i.e. some spells will require skills/feats/knowledge to read and copy to your spellbook)? I assume it will still be possible for us to make copies of our own spell books for backups (?) - but will we be able to copy all of our spells or just the base ones? Will teach be completely removed for all spells, or will we still be able to teach other players some spells, like the base spells you mentioned above.


Scribing has been completely rewritten. There is no chance to fail a scribe and you don't need any special spells/skills/feats to accomplish - assuming you are an arcane caster. You can still make backups of all of your spells - base and acquired. Scribing is much faster and less restrictive in other actions you can do while scribing. There is also a built-in function to copy an entire spell book to a new one.

Spellbooks are tied to the character that owns it and cannot be transferred. That is, nobody can read and prepare spells from a book except for the person who scribed it. Teaching spells is a function that has been removed to ensure that everyone has to find their own spells.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:34 pm

Shev:

Will Monks like the one i'm playing in this campaign and the ones in the 3.5 handbook be in 2.0?
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Re: Weaopns and Trolls

Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:47 pm

Akadees wrote:1. D&D 3.5 has different sized weapons. You can have a spear sized for a halfling (small), a human (medium), or a troll (large). Weapons can also be built for two hands, one hand or offhand. Will the new weapons take into account different weapon sizes and number of hands?

2. Trollls in D&D have what is know as troll get up. No matter how badly you kill em if you don't burn or put them in acid they will eventually regen. Will trolls now have troll get up and will we be able to burn em to make sure they don't get up?


1. Yes, weapons have sizes that correspond to the racial sizes. Larger weapons tend to do more damage and smaller weapons do less. Using a weapon not sized for you is only possible if it is within one size category of you. If it's more than one size category in difference, you cannot wield that weapon at all. Luckily, many weapon & armor shops can resize weapons, for a fee of course. As to 1h or 2h, this is determined by weapon type, not individual weapon.

2. No. Troll regen in the game will consist of increased HP regeneration, just like it does now.
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Re: Skills

Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:51 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Will spending time to maximize certain skills in each class have any relevance in 2.0? Meaning, if I spend now 304 hours to max out 1h misc, will it show as being 'maxed' in 2.0? Or will the system be so different that it will not matter in the least?


Still not ready to go into the intricacies of the skill system. I can repeat that eliminating time sinks, increasing versatility and removing botting are still a primary goal for the new skill system. For other details you'll have to be patient a bit longer.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:59 pm

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently you just hadn't gotten there yet. *blush*
Last edited by Sarvis on Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:00 pm

flib wrote:i feel noobish for even posting this but.. whatever.. ok.. so what about people like me who really have no background in d&d besides playing toril.. honestly it kinda freaks me out a little thinking about my 50'th level character having all these new choices and not knowing damn near what to do.. what are you gonna put in to help us get used to it.. cuz it seems like all the old stuff is changing and.. truthfully.. to this longtime torilite.. that's a bit intimidating.


I totally understand - these are sweeping changes and there's a lot of new information to absorb. You can feel free to investigate D&D for some background, but its our goal to make this new MUD even more accessible, not less, and such background knowledge is not necessary.

You can count on extensive help files detailing the new systems, as well as powerful new commands that can show you sortable/filterable lists of spells and feats that are dynamically generated and hence never out of date.

In addition to documentation, you will also get several "free" chances to re-build your character, because in the end experimentation will be the best way to learn. We will also launch a new forum on the BBS expressly for talking about character builds, and I think the community will be a great resource for getting to know the new options.

In short - don't worry, we're aware how daunting some of this can seem and we'll make sure you have all the information you could possibly need.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:10 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Will Monks like the one i'm playing in this campaign and the ones in the 3.5 handbook be in 2.0?


Still not going to answer questions about the final class/race list. :)
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:12 pm

Sarvis wrote:You know, all along I've been assuming this is based off of 3E rather than 3.5 for some reason. Since I'm now thinking it's 3.5 I have another question:

Rangers aren't going to see a HD drop are they?


Rangers are loosely based off of D&D 3.5. They will have very competitive hit points, I wouldn't worry about that.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:16 pm

Sarvis wrote:Will rangers/druids get animal companions?


Animal companions are planned for 2.0, but there's some chance this could slip to the first 2.0 update for time considerations. I'm pretty confident it will end up in the initial release though.

Sarvis wrote:How will favored enemies be handled?


Very similar to D&D. Rangers can select favored enemies in the form of specific races (e.g. "drow", "fire giant", etc) and will receive damage bonuses to those enemies which scale with level.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:22 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Will Monks like the one i'm playing in this campaign and the ones in the 3.5 handbook be in 2.0?


Still not going to answer questions about the final class/race list. :)


Bah. Cave already!
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:24 pm

Tasan wrote:As far as equipment goes, have you added to the number of extras that each item can have?


Yes, however the final number of "extras" that each item can have is subject to change based on feedback from the Area sphere. This is something we have to be very careful with, as nobody wants to see all of the old equipment instantly outdated. More varied options will for sure be possible in new zones though.

Tasan wrote: Have you made allowances for setting resistances to damage types for armor?


Sure, area makers can set any kind of resistances on armor. Anything from 100% reduction to -500% for every damage type is possible. Items that currently have protection from xxx set on them will be automatically converted to a standard value in the new system.

Tasan wrote:Does encumberance play a more important role in combat/movement then just a direct hit to AC and do coins carried count against encumberance as much as now?


No, encumbrance hasn't changed much. I haven't changed anything about coin weight, but since you mentioned it I'll take a look.

Tasan wrote: Also, I still haven't really seen anything addressing the golf bag problem w/ warriors...


You will in a subsequent update about equipment options that I've alluded to a bit in previous posts. Of course, it's always going to be a good idea to pack more than one weapon for various circumstances - that's something I don't ever see changing.
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Postby Birile » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:02 pm

Shev--

Thank you for all of the information on 2.0 you've been willing to share to this point.

However, given that we're talking about bidding for an icon on CMUD and given that a lot of your posts have begun and ended with "I'm not ready/willing to go into that yet", one question remains: When will 2.0 get here?

From what I can tell, there's a lot of work to be done. With the initial deadline past and with so much more seemingly needing to be done, can you give us any indication of whether 2.0's release is only two or three months away, or if it's more along the lines of 6 months to a year away (or longer)? Not beating a dead horse, just think it's not uncalled for to ask for an update on this at this point. :)
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:07 pm

Caught Up?

I think I've caught up with all of the questions from late last week and this weekend. If I missed your question, please bump it or PM me and I'll reply here.

I think we've done great in this thread getting down to a lot of the details surrounding 2.0 - keep the questions cming if you have them. Also, feel free to post any concerns or reservations you have about the whole concept if you have them.
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:39 pm

Shevarash wrote:Caught Up?

I think I've caught up with all of the questions from late last week and this weekend. If I missed your question, please bump it or PM me and I'll reply here.


I think you missed Biriles. :P
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Postby moritheil » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:59 pm

Shevarash wrote:Animal companions are planned for 2.0 . . .


Awesome.

Shevarash wrote:
Sarvis wrote:How will favored enemies be handled?


Very similar to D&D. Rangers can select favored enemies in the form of specific races (e.g. "drow", "fire giant", etc) and will receive damage bonuses to those enemies which scale with level.


This brings up another question. Will subtypes be used as templates? I.e. will fire giants simply be race giant, subtype fire?

Rangers in 3.5 can pick the general giant race as a category and gain bonuses against hill giants, fire giants, frost giants, ogres (who are type giant), etc. Will things work the same way here?
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