Toril 2.0: Q&A

Discussion concerning the upcoming Toril 2.0 update as well as general 3.5 edition D&D discussion
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Postby Glorishan » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:04 am

Shevarash wrote:Caught Up?

I think I've caught up with all of the questions from late last week and this weekend. If I missed your question, please bump it or PM me and I'll reply here.

I think we've done great in this thread getting down to a lot of the details surrounding 2.0 - keep the questions cming if you have them. Also, feel free to post any concerns or reservations you have about the whole concept if you have them.


Will Glorishan 2.0 be able to c 'plane shift' prime from prime and have it act as a global teleport so as to make it even more efficient? Clearly better than having to pshift another plane every time I want to hit somewhere random!
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Postby Birile » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:44 pm

Birile wrote:Shev--

Thank you for all of the information on 2.0 you've been willing to share to this point.

However, given that we're talking about bidding for an icon on CMUD and given that a lot of your posts have begun and ended with "I'm not ready/willing to go into that yet", one question remains: When will 2.0 get here?

From what I can tell, there's a lot of work to be done. With the initial deadline past and with so much more seemingly needing to be done, can you give us any indication of whether 2.0's release is only two or three months away, or if it's more along the lines of 6 months to a year away (or longer)? Not beating a dead horse, just think it's not uncalled for to ask for an update on this at this point. :)


Sarvis wrote:
Shevarash wrote:Caught Up?

I think I've caught up with all of the questions from late last week and this weekend. If I missed your question, please bump it or PM me and I'll reply here.


I think you missed Biriles. :P


I'm beginning to see a pattern. :cry:
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:44 pm

Birile wrote:Shev--
However, given that we're talking about bidding for an icon on CMUD and given that a lot of your posts have begun and ended with "I'm not ready/willing to go into that yet", one question remains: When will 2.0 get here?


When it's done. I'm sorry, I just won't commit to a date at this point - it wouldn't be fair to the player base or the team working on 2.0.

I can say that we are definitely in the final phase of development. Nearly all of the big stuff is done. There remain a couple of exceptions like Liches and updating mob AI but for the most part we're working on things like helpfiles and interface tweaks. There's also a list of "optional" features which may make it into 2.0 or will get pushed into the first post 2.0 update.

Also, keep in mind that just because I say I won't talk about something doesn't mean that it's not already complete - it's just not ready to be discussed for various reasons.

It's getting pretty close. I will post a date as soon as I feel confident in one.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:51 pm

moritheil wrote:This brings up another question. Will subtypes be used as templates? I.e. will fire giants simply be race giant, subtype fire?

Rangers in 3.5 can pick the general giant race as a category and gain bonuses against hill giants, fire giants, frost giants, ogres (who are type giant), etc. Will things work the same way here?


Not exactly. Fire Giants are a separate race, to use your example, and picking them as your favored enemy will not extend that bonus to other types of giants. So the race selection in some cases is more specific than D&D, but you also get more favored enemies to compensate for that.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:08 pm

Shevarash wrote: There remain a couple of exceptions like Liches and updating mob AI but for the most part we're working on things like helpfiles and interface tweaks.


Bah! No one cares about Liches, and we don't need no stinkin' helpfiles. Just release now! ;)
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:36 pm

Sarvis wrote:
Shevarash wrote: There remain a couple of exceptions like Liches and updating mob AI but for the most part we're working on things like helpfiles and interface tweaks.


Bah! No one cares about Liches, and we don't need no stinkin' helpfiles. Just release now! ;)



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Postby Tasan » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:21 pm

Sarvis wrote:No one cares about Liches


Besides everyone knows it will be beta to start anyhow...
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:24 pm

No questions today, eh?
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:27 pm

So when will we get to see the base Mage spell lists for 2.0 or have I missed them some where? Just curious what will be around/removed?

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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:43 pm

Grumdikanikus wrote:So when will we get to see the base Mage spell lists for 2.0 or have I missed them some where? Just curious what will be around/removed?


I haven't posted them yet. The complete spell lists will probably not be posted until shortly before it goes live, but I've been meaning to post some excerpts in the meantime...
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Postby amolol » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:11 am

are we doing an open or closed beta, if closed how does an experienced beta tester like myself get on the list?

sort of the same question as the spell lists.. when will we see a feats list?

will we see cross classing later in 2.0?
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:12 pm

amolol wrote:are we doing an open or closed beta, if closed how does an experienced beta tester like myself get on the list?


Closed at first, and we'll see if we need an open beta from there. Details on how to be involved will be released when the time is nearer.

amolol wrote:sort of the same question as the spell lists.. when will we see a feats list?


You won't see a full list until shortly before it goes live - but I'll endeavor to get some spell/feat list excerpts posted up soon.

amolol wrote:will we see cross classing later in 2.0?


I assume you mean multi-classing, and at this point there are no plans for implementing it. Which isn't to say we'll never do it, but that's the only answer I can give right now.
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:16 pm

It only took 4 pages to answer everyone's questions? C'mon, I know you can think of more.
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Postby Talona » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:01 pm

Will immortals be granted awesome powers like ansi enabled ooc?
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:32 pm

Okay, if you need to answer something new. I have gotten fairly proficient with using the elementalist class for primarily solo play since I usually get to play for short periods of time. Though I am not as proficient with it as other elementalist players.

With Quest spells like Elemental Fire Embodiment, Earth Embodiment. How are they going to work in the new system?

Will there be help systems for stupid people like me who hadn't played DnD since 2.0 rules went in and Haven't dealt much with the newer rules. I really don't want to screw up my character anymore than I probably will.

Or should I just wait and Ask Inama how to appropriately configure my character so I can keep most all my abilities in the new system.

Thanks,
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:54 pm

Will you be using critical fumbles for Toril 2.0? I think this may have been asked, but I forget and I'm lazy.
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Postby Auril » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:40 pm

Will there be a method in place to allow players to change their deities, either through hardcoding or through imm intervention? And what kind of variance will players have available with respect to pantheon selection? Several pantheons are rather limited, and allowing a range of pantheons might better support roleplay. :)
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:56 pm

Along with Auril's questions, will there be rewards/consequences for acting in conjunction/opposition to your God's beliefs? For instance, if you worship Lloth and run around killing spiders will she send a yochlol after you?
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Postby Sarvis » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:28 pm

Are existing areas going to be revamped to ensure skills like climb are useful? Or would such skills just not be in the game?
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:08 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Ashiwi wrote:Will new features be available that will make creative uses of skills like 'climb' and 'use rope' in zones?


Nothing along those lines are planned right now, but its certainly something we could do if areamakers are interested in including features like that in their new zones. I'll investigate that more when I work with areamakers to get their new zones converted into 2.0...
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Postby Sarvis » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:34 pm

My bad... didn't see that one.


So Shevy, any chance of releasing the skills list yet?
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:57 pm

Nods, I only remember a small fraction of what gets posted here.
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:14 am

will classes still have certain stat requirements, and if so, will that requirement be the base?

Warrior needs STR: 75 DEX: 65 AGI: 65 CON: 75 (280 Points) -but-
Bard needs STR: 50 DEX: 75 CON: 50 INT: 80 CHA: 90 (345 Points)

Will the character automatically meet the requirements and we have a base 'x' to modify from? So bard's pool will be equal in this example to a warrior's so basically bards will have more points altogether?

Or is it all chars start at 50 and they all get a base 'x' pool to add and meet requirements, so it will be much harder to make the 'ideal' bard vs. making the ideal warrior?

Just for a good *CRINGE* Battlechanters currently need 395 points just to hit basic STR: 50 DEX: 75 CON: 50 INT: 50 WIS: 80 CHA: 90
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Postby Disoputlip » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:52 am

How much will quests change, and will you get reimbursed for what you already have? E.g. if you almost have disruption burst or lich quest etc?

Also when will 2.0 go live?
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:43 pm

Grumdikanikus wrote:With Quest spells like Elemental Fire Embodiment, Earth Embodiment. How are they going to work in the new system?



I'm not sure if you mean the quests or the spells themselves. As to the former, you will keep your quest spells. The only catch is if you decide to specialize in a different school of magic and ban the school that your quest spells belong to, you will not be able to cast them any longer. You can of course recover from this if you make a mistake. The elemental embodiment spells themselves have a different name now and work a bit better, but are mostly the same thing.


Grumdikanikus wrote:Will there be help systems for stupid people like me who hadn't played DnD since 2.0 rules went in and Haven't dealt much with the newer rules. I really don't want to screw up my character anymore than I probably will.


Absolutely. The help files are being extensively rewritten, and we have a new system for detailing spells and feats. You will use a separate command now to get info on these things (ex: "spells info magic missile"), which will print out dynamically generated content about the spell/feat (school, radius, classes, prerequisites, components, targets, etc) as well as a text description. This system will insure that the vital information about spells/feats are always up-to-date.

We will also have a forum dedicated to tips on building a character in the new system, and will probably solicit some help from our experienced D&D players.

I know that the D&D 3.5 system is new to many of you and we will absolutely try to make the transition as smooth as possible with extensive help files and guides available before it goes live - so you have some time to plan.

Finally, if you mess up building your character you will have several free chances to start over and build you feat/spell/skills/deity/domain/etc again.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:11 pm

Ragorn wrote:Will you be using critical fumbles for Toril 2.0? I think this may have been asked, but I forget and I'm lazy.


As of now, fumbling is not a part of the 2.0 combat system. Fumbling is just not an interesting game element to me - only an annoyance that serves no real purpose and isn't particularly realistic either.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:27 pm

Shevarash wrote:As of now, fumbling is not a part of the 2.0 combat system. Fumbling is just not an interesting game element to me - only an annoyance that serves no real purpose and isn't particularly realistic either.

Jaw drop.

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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:05 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Grumdikanikus wrote:With Quest spells like Elemental Fire Embodiment, Earth Embodiment. How are they going to work in the new system?


I'm not sure if you mean the quests or the spells themselves. As to the former, you will keep your quest spells. The only catch is if you decide to specialize in a different school of magic and ban the school that your quest spells belong to, you will not be able to cast them any longer. You can of course recover from this if you make a mistake. The elemental embodiment spells themselves have a different name now and work a bit better, but are mostly the same thing.



Any chance you could elaborate or be more specific as to what quested spells are of opposite schools Shev? That way people can stop questing a spell if they know they won't have it.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:59 pm

There are no "opposite" schools. If you choose to specialize as a Wizard, you may pick any two prohibited schools of your choice. Obviously Inferno is an Evocation spell, so if you're thinking about taking Evocation as a prohibited school, don't quest Inferno :P

There should be no surprises.
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:34 pm

Ragorn wrote:There are no "opposite" schools. If you choose to specialize as a Wizard, you may pick any two prohibited schools of your choice. Obviously Inferno is an Evocation spell, so if you're thinking about taking Evocation as a prohibited school, don't quest Inferno :P

There should be no surprises.


There can be since most spells will be placed under new schools of spells. So while a spell now may be considered 'Healing', under new system it will not. Therein lies the problem.

What happens with Priest quested spells for instance? Is it the same idea?

I just don't think people should lose something they quested alot to get. Shev said much earlier that " You won't lose them. Spells that are currently difficult spell quests will remain - although in some cases their name and/or effects may change." If we'll still have them and be able to cast all the quested spells, then my question is answered. But judging from a comment now, this original statement might not have been correct.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:00 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Ragorn wrote:There are no "opposite" schools. If you choose to specialize as a Wizard, you may pick any two prohibited schools of your choice. Obviously Inferno is an Evocation spell, so if you're thinking about taking Evocation as a prohibited school, don't quest Inferno :P

There should be no surprises.


There can be since most spells will be placed under new schools of spells. So while a spell now may be considered 'Healing', under new system it will not. Therein lies the problem.

What happens with Priest quested spells for instance? Is it the same idea?

I just don't think people should lose something they quested alot to get. Shev said much earlier that " You won't lose them. Spells that are currently difficult spell quests will remain - although in some cases their name and/or effects may change." If we'll still have them and be able to cast all the quested spells, then my question is answered. But judging from a comment now, this original statement might not have been correct.


You will not lose your quest spells.

Divine casters have nothing to worry about - there is no change for them in regards to their quest spells. If you have ress now, you will have ress when 2.0 comes out.

For Arcane casters (Nec/Ele/Ill/Enc/Inv), they will also retain their quest spells. Their only problem could be if they intentionally choose to change their specialization and ban the spell school that their quest spell(s) belong to. For instance, let's say you are an Invoker now with Inferno. When 2.0 comes out, you decide that you want that character to become a Necromancer and then you ban the Evocation school. That character could no longer cast Inferno. If done intentionally, fine, great, more power to you - if not, you can go back and reverse your banned school choices to recover from it and you will still have your quest spell.

All spells are documented online and you can always view the school of a spell to prevent any mistakes. And again, you will be able to recover from mistakes made when building your character.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:12 pm

Auril wrote:Will there be a method in place to allow players to change their deities, either through hardcoding or through imm intervention?


Initially you will be able to change your deity the same way you can change any of your other character build options. However, that could get dropped after the initial 2.0 release, so as to encourage people to pick a deity and stick with it. If that's the road we go down the only way to change your deity would be through RPQ interaction or possibly a hard coded quest.

Auril wrote:And what kind of variance will players have available with respect to pantheon selection? Several pantheons are rather limited, and allowing a range of pantheons might better support roleplay. :)


Most of the major Faerunian pantheon allows worshipers from any race, so long as they meet the alignment requirements. So for example, as a chaotic evil Drow you could pick to worship a major god such as Shar, or go with a member of the Drow pantheon such as Vhaeraun. This may need some fine tuning but it's a good place to start.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:20 pm

It's pretty easy to figure out what school each spell will belong into, though some spells might have a couple possibilities. Quick rundown:

Abjuration: Defensive spells. Example: Dragonscales, Mind Blank.

Conjuration: Spells which conjure, summon, or transport matter or energy. Healing spells are also Conjuration. Example: Relocate.

Divination: Spells which allow you to perceive things you couldn't normally see. Example: I don't know if there are any quest spells, but Detect Invisibility is a Divination.

Enchantment: Spells which affect the minds of others, often influencing behavior. I can't think of any current mage quest spells that fall into this category, but Feeblemind is Enchantment.

Evocation: Spells which create something out of nothing. Very often used for offensive, damaging spells. Example: Inferno, Sandstorm.

Illusion: Spells which trick the senses, causing others to perceive what isn't there. Example: Well... pick any given Illusionist spell.

Necromancy: Spells that deal with death, the (un)dead, or life force. Example: Anything Lich-related.

Transmutation: Spells which change the form of matter, energy, or time. Example: Time Stop.
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Postby Birile » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:44 pm

From my limited experience with D&D 3.5:

There are some spells which Toril considers almost universal to mage classes (with few exceptions) that I can see becoming problematic with the D&D 3.5 specialization/banned school idea.

Here are some examples:

Invisibility is an Illusion...
Ray of Enfeeblement is Necromancy...
Teleport is Conjuration...
Prismatic Spray is Evocation... (okay, this isn't a universally used spell in Toril presently, but it struck me as funneh :lol: )

Also, it may be of note that our current Enchanter class is a complete mesh of the Abjuration, Enchantment and Transmutation schools, with a spattering of a lot of other schools (see above-listed spells, for instance). Will the Enchanter class be thusly revamped?

Will some of these rather universal spells be considered "Universal" in 2.0, or will they stay in their current specialized schools?

Also of note: from what I understand of D&D 3.5, you cannot ban the Divination school. Will that be the case in Toril 2.0? (this may have already been answered elsewhere)
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:46 pm

Thanks for the clarification Shevarash.
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Postby Cirath » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:25 am

Considering all the concern over speciallization, I thought this might be a relevant question: Would I be correct in assuming that a wizard does not have to speciallize and can remain a generallist, with access to all the spell schools (with the exception of a few high end quest spells from each school), if he so chose?
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Postby Tasan » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:11 am

The conclusion to the wizards thread clearly states you do not have to specialize.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:59 pm

Sarvis wrote:Along with Auril's questions, will there be rewards/consequences for acting in conjunction/opposition to your God's beliefs? For instance, if you worship Lloth and run around killing spiders will she send a yochlol after you?


Not quite that dramatic, no. However, if your alignment shifts too far away fromt he alignment of your deity, they will stop granting you spells. At that point you either need to fix your alignment issue or think about choosing another deity.... (see above)
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:04 pm

Thilindel wrote:will classes still have certain stat requirements, and if so, will that requirement be the base?


No, there are no ability score requirements for classes. Everyone starts with a base of 50 for every ability score, modified by racial abilities. You can then assign your pool of points however you choose. This works because there are less scores to worry about now (dropped POW and AGI) and the remaining ones are all useful to every class. You can certainly "mess up" and assign your points somewhat poorly as relates to your chosen class, but that's the price of having the freedom to allocate them as you wish. Again, you will always be able to recover from poor stat distribution through hard coded game commands.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Disoputlip wrote:How much will quests change, and will you get reimbursed for what you already have? E.g. if you almost have disruption burst or lich quest etc?


I don't know how much the actual quests will change, that is at the discretion of the Areas sphere. The question about spell quests has been answered above on this page.

Disoputlip wrote:Also when will 2.0 go live?


When it's done. It's getting close.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:14 pm

Birile wrote:Also, it may be of note that our current Enchanter class is a complete mesh of the Abjuration, Enchantment and Transmutation schools, with a spattering of a lot of other schools (see above-listed spells, for instance). Will the Enchanter class be thusly revamped?


Yes - the Enchantment school of magic now accurately reflects the 3.5 school - so rather than being a mish-mash of protection spells it is all about mental effects such as charm, fear, confusion, etc. Players who are used to the old Enchanter class and enjoy specializing in protection spells may want to choose to switch to Abjurers or Transmuters.


Birile wrote:Will some of these rather universal spells be considered "Universal" in 2.0, or will they stay in their current specialized schools?


No, not really. There are very few Universal spells. Picking and choosing which spells you will or will not have access to is what makes the whole specialization concept work. That said, some of the lower level oft-used spells that you cite have alternative spells in different spell schools that serve the same function.

Birile wrote:Also of note: from what I understand of D&D 3.5, you cannot ban the Divination school. Will that be the case in Toril 2.0? (this may have already been answered elsewhere)


That is correct, you cannot ban Divination or Universal.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:21 pm

Cirath wrote:Considering all the concern over speciallization, I thought this might be a relevant question: Would I be correct in assuming that a wizard does not have to speciallize and can remain a generallist, with access to all the spell schools (with the exception of a few high end quest spells from each school), if he so chose?


Wizards do not have to specialize. It is a perfectly feasible class choice to remain as a Wizard and never specialize. You won't get a handful of very top-level spells but you will have access to every single other arcane spell throughout all schools. There's a thread in the Announcements forum with more detailed information.
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Postby Birile » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:48 pm

Can my Elementalist-turned-Conjurer quest Necromancy-specific quest spells? Abjurer-specific quest spells? etc.? Or just the Conjurer-specific quest spells?

Also, I'm still a little concerned about the fate of our current Enchanters (even though I don't have one of any note myself). It's been noted that our current Enchanters may want to specialize in Abjuration or Transmutation. If the answer to my first question(s) in this post is a resounding "No, you can't quest spells from other specializations" then how do you rectify that our current Enchanters get Time Stop (Transmutation, I think), Mind Blank (Abjuration?), Relocate--or its 2.0 equivalent (Conjuration?), etc., given the fact that it's been stated we won't lose our quest spells? Can this be clarified a little, especially related to this specific example of Enchanters (or any other class which may have quest spells which cross 2.0 specializations)?
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:58 pm

Birile wrote:Can my Elementalist-turned-Conjurer quest Necromancy-specific quest spells? Abjurer-specific quest spells? etc.? Or just the Conjurer-specific quest spells?


Sure. I think the crucial point that is causing the confusion is this:

Every spell that is currently a quest spell can be quested and cast by any Wizard or Wizard Specialist so long as they do not ban the school it comes from.

The only quest spells that will be specific to their specializations will be new spells that have not been seen before.


So in other words, when I talk about high level class-specific spells I am speaking of new spells, not Time Stop or Inferno or Relocate or Elemental Fire Embodiment. Those spells are open to all Wizards now.

So you can remain a Wizard and cast every single quest spell currently available to Enc/Inv/Nec/Ill/Ele. If you choose to specialize you may have to make some hard choices, but you are getting far more choices and will only ever "lose" a quest spell if you choose to do so by banning that school.

Does that make sense?
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:03 pm

So how cool is that? Every generalist Wizard will be able to put Time Stop, Relocate, Inferno, Fire Embodiment, Gate, Nightmare, etc. on their spell list :)

I do plan to roll up a character for Toril 2.0, and I'll have a really hard time NOT playing a Wizard :)
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Postby Birile » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:18 pm

:shock:
Oh
My
God
:shock:
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Postby Birile » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:21 pm

So Shev, how big are spellbooks going to be? How will spells be scribed into the books? One page per spell, or one page for each level of a given spell (9 pages for a 9th lvl spell)?
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:36 pm

Birile wrote:So Shev, how big are spellbooks going to be? How will spells be scribed into the books? One page per spell, or one page for each level of a given spell (9 pages for a 9th lvl spell)?


The latter - higher circle spells take more space. Spell books will have more pages by default as a minimum to account for the larger number of spells. I think that special books with a high page count will be a hot commodity.
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Postby Tral » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:32 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Birile wrote:S... I think that special books with a high page count will be a hot commodity.


I'm envisioning an 'Enchanted Trapper Keeper'

Add pages as necessary ;)

On a more serious note, this is all very interesting to see... I'm just recently returning to the mud after a 5 or 6 year hiatus (really don't remember how long it has been...) and am looking forward to the new system.

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Postby Birile » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:01 pm

Tral wrote:I'm envisioning an 'Enchanted Trapper Keeper'


OMG a big shout-out to all of my fellow players who grew up in the '80s!

On a side-note... will it have a velcro flap?

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