Toril 2.0: Q&A

Discussion concerning the upcoming Toril 2.0 update as well as general 3.5 edition D&D discussion
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:41 am

The real question is: Will it come from the future, and start eating all your electronics and try to conquer the world?

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Postby Tasan » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:53 am

Combat engine:

Have you figured out a way to decrease the enormous waste of time that collecting decent arrows is?

How does the engine determine where a player is in relation to everything else in the room? I.E. Do we have the option to take a 5-foot step? Is terrain a factor during combat? Will area affects from players have a chance to affect other PC's?

How have you changed and adapted the AI for templates and are you giving options for AI to the builders as well?

Are you doing something neat w/ prestige?

Will there ever be a global channel that's always open for talk about the game(sans quest info yadda yadda)? :p
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:05 pm

Collecting decent arrows shouldn't be a problem when there's no missile shield. The biggest problem comes from the fact that you NEED ridiculous projectiles to penetrate a ubiquitous defensive spell.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:20 pm

Actually, if you played at all, you might know that missile shield isn't even an issue.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:41 pm

<b>Tasan</b>: Because no one bothers to bring rangers anyway?

<b>Ragorn</b>: Doesn't D&D have missile shield as a fairly low level spell?
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Postby Tasan » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:32 pm

Uh... how long since you two played for real? Seriously...
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Postby moritheil » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:44 pm

Sarvis wrote:<b>Tasan</b>: Because no one bothers to bring rangers anyway?

<b>Ragorn</b>: Doesn't D&D have missile shield as a fairly low level spell?


I've seen archery in zones lately. Missile shield currently shatters as soon as a few +3 or better arrows hit it. It takes maybe one round to go down.

I'm not aware of a "missile shield" spell in 3.5. There is Protection from Arrows, which does absolutely nothing to help you against magic arrows. There is also Shield, which increases your AC and is in fact close to the existing spell Energy Shield in Toril.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:03 pm

Tasan wrote:Have you figured out a way to decrease the enormous waste of time that collecting decent arrows is?


Well, the bow is more important than the arrow in 2.0, so there's much less need for high quality arrows. High quality arrows will still be beneficial, but more for specific circumstances than just normal usage.

Tasan wrote:How does the engine determine where a player is in relation to everything else in the room? I.E. Do we have the option to take a 5-foot step? Is terrain a factor during combat? Will area affects from players have a chance to affect other PC's?


Relation is determined based on the order that characters are displayed in the room list. Terrain is not a factor other than the usual no-ground effects and area effects do not affect those allied to you nor count as part of your offensive radius size. This is obviously a bit different than tabletop, but, well, this is a text MUD. :)

Tasan wrote:How have you changed and adapted the AI for templates and are you giving options for AI to the builders as well?


Adding a racial template can come with special behavior if that's what you're referring to. AI in general is in the process of being completely overhauled to take advantage of all the new features. There are some new features that area makers can use that will affect a mob's behavior, such as the aforementioned templates and some new flags. I hope that answers what you were getting at.

Tasan wrote:Are you doing something neat w/ prestige?


Not initially. Core gameplay first. We will get to it though.

Tasan wrote:Will there ever be a global channel that's always open for talk about the game(sans quest info yadda yadda)? :p


I expect that gcc will be on quite frequently when 2.0 is introduced so everyone can discuss the changes and share information about character building.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:07 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Tasan wrote:Have you figured out a way to decrease the enormous waste of time that collecting decent arrows is?


Well, the bow is more important than the arrow in 2.0, so there's much less need for high quality arrows. High quality arrows will still be beneficial, but more for specific circumstances than just normal usage.


Will there be arrows of slaying? :D
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:39 pm

moritheil wrote:
Shevarash wrote:
Tasan wrote:Have you figured out a way to decrease the enormous waste of time that collecting decent arrows is?


Well, the bow is more important than the arrow in 2.0, so there's much less need for high quality arrows. High quality arrows will still be beneficial, but more for specific circumstances than just normal usage.


Will there be arrows of slaying? :D


Already is in Tia. Sorta. :P
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Postby Vigis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:18 pm

Shev,

You mentioned that relation would be determined by how the group is displayed in the room.

Will we still be seeing the last person to enter a room at the top of the room display now or at the bottom? I'm envisioning a room with E W exits. The tanks enter the room from the East to engage a group of mobs that are already there. The rest of the group follows, so you have support and damage at the top, tanks in the middle, mobs at the bottom. Now, a mob enters from the West, is it displayed at the top of the list and therefore closer in relation to the support and damage PC's or closer to the mobs since it entered from a different direction than the group?

Did that make any sense?
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Postby Kegor » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:28 pm

Will time sinks be reduced in 2.0?

I think this is an important issue for today's gamer. We need more fast paced, action packed adventuring with faster CR ability, slightly faster regen rates, more moves on mounts. No more KO, 5+ minute river ferrys, ress fx, failing relo, relo lag, only 5 potion quaff in 24 minutes, slow memtimes at low-mid level, dayblindness (full vision in room at day time, allow at least the room desc and shapes similar to infra to be seen in ajdacent rooms), remove racail grouping restrictions, and let us play some mud. I think exp was already covered somewhere else, as was skill practice.

Am I forgetting any?
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Postby Vigis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:40 pm

Will KO come back with headbutt? Or will we even have headbutt? I miss KO.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:52 pm

As a follow up to Vigis' question about room order, will there be an option to create formations? It would be nice if you could keep the group in the same order when moving from room to room. Maybe even have it based off of a leadership skill of some sort.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:06 pm

Tasan wrote:Uh... how long since you two played for real? Seriously...

Much more recently than you think.
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Postby Sarvis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:51 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Tasan wrote:Uh... how long since you two played for real? Seriously...

Much more recently than you think.


Not me, actually. Been thinking about it, but waiting for 2.0 to start up...
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:19 pm

Vigis wrote:Will we still be seeing the last person to enter a room at the top of the room display now or at the bottom? I'm envisioning a room with E W exits. The tanks enter the room from the East to engage a group of mobs that are already there. The rest of the group follows, so you have support and damage at the top, tanks in the middle, mobs at the bottom. Now, a mob enters from the West, is it displayed at the top of the list and therefore closer in relation to the support and damage PC's or closer to the mobs since it entered from a different direction than the group?

Did that make any sense?


Uh..I think so. The only reason we care about room order is for the purpose of determining spell radius. Since spell radius does not count your allies when casting an offensive spell and vice-versa, it doesn't matter what relation mobs are to pc's - only what relation those categories are within themselves. In your example, the new mob entering would simply be at the top of the list of mobs for all intents and purposes.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:21 pm

Jaznolg wrote:Will time sinks be reduced in 2.0?


Yes - this has been stated many times in the various 2.0 announcements as being a primary goal of the 2.0 conversion.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:27 pm

Vigis wrote:Will KO come back with headbutt? Or will we even have headbutt? I miss KO.


I don't have headbutt in the list of combat maneuvers for 2.0. I can certainly add it in...but not with KO. It might be nostalgic to get knocked out by using a combat maneuver, but that also guarantees it never gets used seriously in the game. I'm not terribly interested in featuring broken stuff just for old time's sakes. :)
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:29 pm

Sarvis wrote:As a follow up to Vigis' question about room order, will there be an option to create formations? It would be nice if you could keep the group in the same order when moving from room to room. Maybe even have it based off of a leadership skill of some sort.


There will be a command that allows group leaders to re-order their groups, though I wouldn't really call it a formal "formation" feature. This is something that may get a lot more fleshed out after we get some player input from beta testing.
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Postby Vigis » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:41 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Vigis wrote:Will KO come back with headbutt? Or will we even have headbutt? I miss KO.


I don't have headbutt in the list of combat maneuvers for 2.0. I can certainly add it in...but not with KO. It might be nostalgic to get knocked out by using a combat maneuver, but that also guarantees it never gets used seriously in the game. I'm not terribly interested in featuring broken stuff just for old time's sakes. :)


I admit, I much preferred it when it KO'd the mob or my opponent in the arena. How about we give it a chance to KO the mob and a chance to damage the PC on a KO failure? That would make sure it got used. I'll risk a couple hundred in damage if I have a chance to KO the target. If I don't hit the random chance to KO, it could work just like it does now.
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+maxstat eq

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:11 am

I'm not sure if it has been addressed previously (and if so please point me in the right direction) but how will +maxstat eq affect players in 2.0?

Right now +maxstat eq is very important for certain classes (more hps, less memtimes, etc), will this remain important?

If the answer to the previous questions is a negative one, how will equipment that now has +maxstats on it be in 2.0? Will they be utter poop?
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Re: +maxstat eq

Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:59 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:I'm not sure if it has been addressed previously (and if so please point me in the right direction) but how will +maxstat eq affect players in 2.0?

Right now +maxstat eq is very important for certain classes (more hps, less memtimes, etc), will this remain important?

If the answer to the previous questions is a negative one, how will equipment that now has +maxstats on it be in 2.0? Will they be utter poop?


Well, there's no maximum ability score cap anymore, so the old +max_stat items function differently. I haven't revealed yet how they're going to function, but suffice it to say that they will still be valuable and pertain to your stats, but in a slightly different way...

I believe the Character Attributes thread in Announcements has more information.
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Postby Sarell » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:25 am

The current headbutt doesn't get used much in zones either. I liked the KO one, KO CC is possibly the most fun one could have on Toril. Things don't have to be practical to be heaps of fun and fun is still the point of playing a game I hope. The current headbutt is a superb solo damage boost.

Losing arrows, like losing them all in a few seconds, is the problem with arrows more so that getting them.
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Postby Akadees » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:28 pm

Will Toril 3.5 use the system of weapon sizes and types?
Sizes (small, medium, large)
type (2h, 1h, light or offhand)
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Postby Tasan » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:51 pm

Akadees wrote:Will Toril 3.5 use the system of weapon sizes and types?
Sizes (small, medium, large)
type (2h, 1h, light or offhand)


http://www.torilmud.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18534
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Postby Thilindel » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:59 am

Will !ID be a thing of the past in 2.0?

It's gotta be one of the dumbest things - me hates it! I really don't know of anybody that _does_ like it.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm

We're considering it...
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:52 pm

The only thing I hate about id'ing an object is that I will forget it a month later when I see the item again and I am too lazy to database the item list.

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Postby amolol » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:41 pm

will anon be around in 2.0?

will we have level restricts on items?
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Postby Birile » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:21 pm

Will 2.0 include truly cursed items? ie. items which actually have a detriment attached to them because they're cursed (as opposed to simply flagged NODROP)
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Postby Botef » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:27 pm

Birile wrote:Will 2.0 include truly cursed items? ie. items which actually have a detriment attached to them because they're cursed (as opposed to simply flagged NODROP)


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Postby Botef » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:51 pm

With all the current spells being made available to every caster will we see many changes to these spells and their strength, particularly quest spells like Phantasmal Tendrils/Fire Embody/Etc. I'm assuming the new class specific spells will be more powerful than the current ones...What kind of changes to areas/mob AI will be made to balance this out? Will mobs be utilizing the current quest spells as well as playes? Etc.

One of the things that I'm aprehensive about is the dilution of power & distiniction amongst the caster classes as spells are opened up to everyone. I guess I'm just not too hot on the idea of seeing the unique spells currently ingame being available to everyone...Can you tell us more about the new quest spells being introduced and how they will work in regards to balance for all the caster types, and the uniqueness/athsetics of specialized mages. Its a hard one to think about not knowing what new elements will exist, but from our current prespective Wizards will be uber.
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Postby amolol » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:26 am

will we see purchaseable ships/houses in 2.0? cause im... piracy would be friggin awesome!
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Postby Birile » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:46 pm

Can someone page Shev?
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:23 pm

amolol wrote:will anon be around in 2.0?


There's no plan to get rid of it at the moment, although we are considering some updates to the way it works. At the very least, Anon players will be counted in the total players online number.

amolol wrote:will we have level restricts on items?


No. Though there will of course still be proc items that take character level into account...
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:28 pm

Birile wrote:Will 2.0 include truly cursed items? ie. items which actually have a detriment attached to them because they're cursed (as opposed to simply flagged NODROP)


There will be a distinction between NODROP and cursed items, yes. Just being cursed generally means that the item can't be gotten rid of easily, but there's some fun detriments that can be combined with that.
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Postby Tasan » Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:56 am

Are you implementing a better system for consent(perm/multiple) and ignore(perm/multiple :p)?

Will we have a permanent global mud chat channel and why not? :p

Will you allow ansi for descriptions and/or mmail?

Will artifacts/uniques make a reappearance? :)

Will you up the amount of characters we can input at one time? (the number now is woefully small)
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Postby moritheil » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:05 pm

Thilindel wrote:Will !ID be a thing of the past in 2.0?

It's gotta be one of the dumbest things - me hates it! I really don't know of anybody that _does_ like it.


There is a school of thought that holds that the inability to know the true stats of some items adds mystique and difficulty to Toril, which in turn is partly responsible for Toril's distinctiveness, and prevents the game from turning into a min/maxing exercise (or at least, one that can be solved with certainty.) IIRC there was another thread where people argued over this recently.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:37 am

Tasan wrote:Are you implementing a better system for consent(perm/multiple) and ignore(perm/multiple :p)?


Yeah, though whether that comes in the initial 2.0 package or soon after is up in the air. I could keep adding things forever, but this needs to get released in a reasonable timeframe. Anyways, a multiple consent system has already been prototyped, so we'll see.

Tasan wrote:Will we have a permanent global mud chat channel and why not? :p


There already is one. The way its used is a better question for the Admin sphere.

Tasan wrote:Will you allow ansi for descriptions and/or mmail?


There's no plans for this, but I'm open to the idea and suggsestions concerning it.

Tasan wrote:Will artifacts/uniques make a reappearance? :)


In a sense. Certainly not in the way artifacts/uniques were present in the old Toril/Sojourn. You'll have to wait for more news on that front...


Tasan wrote:Will you up the amount of characters we can input at one time? (the number now is woefully small)


I wasn't really aware that it was an issue, but it can certainly be adjusted if needed.
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Postby Birile » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:36 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Tasan wrote:Will you allow ansi for descriptions and/or mmail?


There's no plans for this, but I'm open to the idea and suggsestions concerning it.


No reason not to allow us to ansi-fy our mmail--Imms can do this already, I've got at least one saved with the proof!

Shevarash wrote:
Tasan wrote:Will you up the amount of characters we can input at one time? (the number now is woefully small)


I wasn't really aware that it was an issue, but it can certainly be adjusted if needed.


Yeah, it's a headache. Can you adjust it upwards please? (at least double what it is now would probably suffice) :)
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Postby Ambar » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:59 pm

Shev, can we see a few logs or screenshots of what a 2.0 char looks like compared to what we are used to .. ie" attributes, score, *normal* spell list .. maybe out of a test char you have set up?
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Postby Kegor » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 pm

Is areas working on changing eq stats for the release of 2.0 since the class flags on eq are going out the window for the most part?

Are economy issues and overall zone eq balance being addressed by areas for the release of 2.0?

I think we have seen all the examples we need over the last year or so to accurately tweak these things. At the very least I would hope to see an attempt at it for the release of 2.0.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:44 pm

Ambar wrote:Shev, can we see a few logs or screenshots of what a 2.0 char looks like compared to what we are used to .. ie" attributes, score, *normal* spell list .. maybe out of a test char you have set up?


Yes, I'll post some screenshots pretty soon.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:49 pm

Jaznolg wrote:Is areas working on changing eq stats for the release of 2.0 since the class flags on eq are going out the window for the most part?


Areas are certainly assisting on converting objects for 2.0, although this is primarily handled by automatic processes. There is no widespread area initiative to re-stat equipment individually for 2.0. The major change in equipment will come from the core gameplay changes and modifications to how certain types of equipment work. I hope that answers your question.

Jaznolg wrote:Are economy issues and overall zone eq balance being addressed by areas for the release of 2.0?


Areas is always working on overall zone balance. Is there some grand scheme to re-do eq distribution at the top level for 2.0? No, not at this point. Again, look for this type of thing after 2.0 has debuted and the core gameplay is stable.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:49 pm

Even by conservative estimates, it seems it would take tens of thousands of hours of work to rebalance all eq in the game (presumably doing it zone by zone.) I have no idea how many people are on the staff, but that means that even if there were 100 people (and I doubt there are so many) and they all worked on it, it would still take months to rebalance items.

(Ex: Average of 5 hrs/wk, 100 people = 500 hrs/wk. 10,000 hrs @ 500 hrs/wk = 20 weeks)

After thinking about it, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect Areas to undertake such a massive effort.


More on topic . . . I would like to state my support for longer input.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:56 pm

moritheil wrote:Even by conservative estimates, it seems it would take tens of thousands of hours of work to rebalance all eq in the game (presumably doing it zone by zone.)


That's conservative?

I know it would take a lot less time. The real hard part is setting the baseline and moving from there. If a converter can be made for all eq in game now to be converted for 2.0, it stands to reason one could be made off a generic template to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis if warrented.
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Postby Birile » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:51 pm

Birile wrote:
Shevarash wrote:
Tasan wrote:Will you allow ansi for descriptions and/or mmail?


There's no plans for this, but I'm open to the idea and suggsestions concerning it.


No reason not to allow us to ansi-fy our mmail--Imms can do this already, I've got at least one saved with the proof!

Shevarash wrote:
Tasan wrote:Will you up the amount of characters we can input at one time? (the number now is woefully small)


I wasn't really aware that it was an issue, but it can certainly be adjusted if needed.


Yeah, it's a headache. Can you adjust it upwards please? (at least double what it is now would probably suffice) :)


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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:05 pm

Yeah, I'll look into increasing the max input length for 2.0. We can do this for sure, provided there's no obscure technical problem with doing so, which is doubtful.
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Postby Sarell » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:54 am

Thilindel wrote:Will !ID be a thing of the past in 2.0?

It's gotta be one of the dumbest things - me hates it! I really don't know of anybody that _does_ like it.


I love it! You just want to 'swing it around to see if it's magical'! Any suggestion that is followed by 'me hates it' should be instantly dismissed imho. !ID = intrigue = not boring, which we REALLY need to aim for.

Input length increased would rock.

Anyhow, tell us more about touch attacks, and use the <sexy> tag on your reply if possible please :).
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