To FCC or not to FCC

Discussion concerning the upcoming Toril 2.0 update as well as general 3.5 edition D&D discussion
Gurns
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To FCC or not to FCC

Postby Gurns » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:23 pm

This discussion started on http://www.torilmud.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19247 . But I don't think that thread is supposed to be a discussion thread, so I’ve started this one.

Tasan wrote:Because the place needs it.

Although I believe we are in agreement about some things here, I come to exactly the opposite conclusion about a Friends Chat Channel.

You and I seem to agree that:

* social ties are good for the mud.

* social ties are created and maintained through player interactions. While work-like tasks (xp, zoning) are of some aid in this, social interactions (which on the mud are almost exclusively conversations) are more important for social ties.

* there are different levels of social tie. One can think of acquaintances you get along with, friends, close friends.

* an FCC will help players keep in touch with close friends, help maintain strong social ties. And the more strong social ties a player has, the more likely the player is to stay on the mud.

However, it is also true that the more positive social ties of any level a player has, the more likely they are to stay on the mud. 10 friends will keep you here more than 5 friends will, 10 acquaintances you get along with will keep you here more than 5 will.

Most critically, a player with no positive social ties is unlikely to stay on the mud (with perhaps some unusually brash exceptions).

A true newbie starts with no social ties on the mud. Ignore them, leave them isolated, and they’ll leave. Chat with them, chat to a friend and let them listen in, let the newbie feel like a part of the conversation, a part of the mud, and we have a chance they’ll stay. For some newbies, including them in conversations will be even more important than rolling up a new alt and grouping with them.

You want an FCC exactly because it would be exclusive. The benefit to the mud is that it would improve interaction between close friends, and those folks would be more likely to stay.

But newbies can listen in and participate in conversations on only a few channels. And while nobody is going to chat as much on OOC or gsay as they would on an FCC, with an FCC available most people will chat less on the public channels. So the cost to the mud is that it would reduce the interaction of players with, or in the presence of, newbies. And so newbies will be more likely to leave.

Mud history gives us an example that is illustrative, that of ACC. Before ACC, there was a certain amount of chatter on OOC and gsay. After ACC went in, less OOC, less gsay. After alts were able to use ACC, there was much less public or in-group chatter. Has that hurt our ability to retain newbies? I think it has.

ACC chatter excludes newbies, and reduces the conversations they can participate in. FCC would do that even more. So where, then, are the opportunities for newbies to interact, or feel like a part of the mud? Where are their opportunities to start forming positive social ties that might help us keep them here?

I think we need all the newbies we can possibly get, so the cost of an FCC is too high.
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Postby Glorishan » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:52 pm

1st person to disagree with the opinion in this thread.
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Postby Ambar » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:49 am

Well since we can only have 30 people guilded, I kind of like the idea of a channel we can get together and laugh about player x thats just not for your guilds :P

Maybe you hate 1/2 the people you're zoning with but dont wanna make fun of them on the gsay line, so a chat channel made by you, invited people only .. would serve the purpose!!

Not that we would use the player chat channels do that, this was merely an example!
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Re: To FCC or not to FCC

Postby Tasan » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:51 am

Gurns wrote:You want an FCC exactly because it would be exclusive.


Best alarmist reaction ever. Obviously when the telephone was invented people became exclusive and no one talked to anyone else. I never described the channel as "exclusive", you did. The fact that it is player controlled doesn't mean a thing. I can't remember the last time something that was truly worth sharing in group didn't get posted to ACC or OOC or LFGC for that matter. Until you come back and play full time, don't try to pass off your rhetoric about what happened in the past and bring it full circle. Part of the problem this game has had is living in the past.

Gurns wrote:And while nobody is going to chat as much on OOC or gsay as they would on an FCC, with an FCC available most people will chat less on the public channels. So the cost to the mud is that it would reduce the interaction of players with, or in the presence of, newbies. And so newbies will be more likely to leave.


Shevarash wrote:You know what they say about assumptions.


Gurns wrote:I think it has.


Sorry, but I disagree. I think things like ignoring the players, general malaise and a game that is stagnant has done enough to discourage new players.

Gurns wrote:Where are their opportunities to start forming positive social ties that might help us keep them here?


When I was a new player, I didn't log on to chat. I logged in to play the game. We want people to play the game and stay for the game. This isn't a chat room program, or at least it wasn't intended to be one. Lately all it has been is a chat room, with channels you can't even talk about things on. Not having a global channel where you can talk about what you want when you want only serves to get the other channels abused until they are shut off.
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Postby Disoputlip » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:48 pm

roll a drow
Gurns
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Postby Gurns » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:03 am

Tasan wrote:I never described the channel as "exclusive", you did.

You never used that word. But you said:
Tasan wrote:ability to create our own channel so that multiple friends in different groups could still talk to each other without resorting to OOC or having to break the rules of lfgc?

You want to talk to your friends, without talking to the whole mud. That’s a private chat channel.

I see that there could be many FCCs, probably anyone could create one. It’s not exclusive in that sense. But because you specified chatting to your friends, then I assume that for each channel created, some player would give PCs access to it, or refuse to give them access. While many channels could be created, any particular one would be restricted, exclusive.

If that isn’t what you were suggesting, then what is?
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Postby Tasan » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:44 am

When you use exclusivity as an arguement, yes I will say that channels we can open/use to our want aren't exclusive.

Currently there is no global channel for people to use that aren't guilded that want to talk about the game. If you don't want a FCC or whatever, at least give the players something. It's not about excluding people(which the current situation does). If I can't have a global channel where I can talk to people in game, I use AIM or Skype and generally just ignore the game.
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Postby Gormal » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:26 am

I've never understood where there isn't a more open chat channel. Let us bicker and moan and flame and whatever somewhere. If people don't like it, they can turn it off. Its readily apparent by the abuse of EVERY channel that the players want this.
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Postby moritheil » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:42 pm

Suggestion: Pay plat to create and maintain private chat channels.
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Postby grundar » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:40 am

i hate this idea,
we'll lose the mistells which make the zoning experience so much fun...

you tell bolasos i hate zoning with sikra
bolasos tells you he's fkilling me with his slow ass leading
sikra tells you wtf assh+le quit afking
reply sikra should be taken out back and shot
you tell sikra sikra should be taken out back and shot
sikra tells you oh yeah f+cker? youre so getting hosed on the dice
you tell bolasos feh, add another mistell for the count
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:33 pm

Really? You resurrected a thread that's been dead for 8 months to say you disagree with it? :P
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Postby Corth » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:26 pm

Shhhh.. He's trying to use reverse psychology on the gods. Don't give it away!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby grundar » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:17 pm

that and i was bored at work... still am :(
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Postby teflor the ranger » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:54 am

New players won't leave because you won't chat with them. New players leave because of a tired, unenthusiastic base and staff.

Generally speaking, of course.

I like the idea of an friendslist and friendslist based chat. It is new grounds to explore, and another feature that players will like and use. It will also allow us to connect like guild mates do, without having to join a guild (or be subject to their general stupidity, and even dumber politics).
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Postby Raiwen » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:18 pm

omg.

I agree with Teflor.

shoot me now.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:29 pm

Raiwen wrote:omg.

I agree with Teflor.

shoot me now.


Well the only thing I have here is this trouser snake.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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