Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

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kiryan
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Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby kiryan » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:00 pm

Since an Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license went into effect, the # of driver license tests in Spanish have gone down 90%. Spanish driver license tests in Washington cities that border Oregon are up 50%.

I think thats great.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Sarvis » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:03 pm

kiryan wrote:Since an Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license went into effect, the # of driver license tests in Spanish have gone down 90%. Spanish driver license tests in Washington cities that border Oregon are up 50%.

I think thats great.



So they're driving further without a license to get a license?

Remind me not to drive through the Oregon/Washington border area...
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby avak » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:55 pm

And the one's not driving to Washington to get a license are either driving without a license or working harder to get a fake ssn.

Or do you think they just threw up their hands and went back (walked) to Mexico with their heads down?
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Corth » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:20 pm

The more difficult you make it for them to, you know, break our laws and enter the country illegally, the less likely they will do it. No?

That being said, I'm not exactly sure why we make it so difficult to legally immigrate into this country.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Sarvis » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:00 pm

Corth wrote:The more difficult you make it for them to, you know, break our laws and enter the country illegally, the less likely they will do it. No?

That being said, I'm not exactly sure why we make it so difficult to legally immigrate into this country.



How does it make it more difficult to enter the country? Is Oregon farther south than I think it is? Do they HAVE to drive a car over the border?

This just makes it more likely they'll break laws, it doesn't make them less likely to try.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby avak » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:11 pm

Well, the question is: will it actually deter illegal immigration or just cause a shift in behavior?

I'd think the later, which is a worse situation than the one before the law.

Piecemeal, half-assed reactionary legislation=bad.
Intelligent, comprehensive, federal immigration policy=probably a lot better.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Corth » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:19 am

Sarvis,

Giving an illegal alien a driver's license facilitates their illegal activities within the country. Without a driver's license, if they get pulled over driving to work, for instance, they are getting arrested.. and deported. So yes, it makes it more difficult for them to remain gainfully employed in this country, which is their goal, and consequentially is a deterrent to them coming here in the first place.

I'd prefer to just let them come here legally and let them be taxpaying participants of our country.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Sarvis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:51 am

Corth wrote:Sarvis,

Giving an illegal alien a driver's license facilitates their illegal activities within the country. Without a driver's license, if they get pulled over driving to work, for instance, they are getting arrested.. and deported. So yes, it makes it more difficult for them to remain gainfully employed in this country, which is their goal, and consequentially is a deterrent to them coming here in the first place.


I'm not so sure of that though. Ok, they might be sent back... but even if they work here for a few months isn't it advantageous for them? They still go back with more money than they had in the first place right?

They have incentive to risk their lives just crossing the border, simple deportation is a much smaller risk.

They won't stop wanting to immigrate here until their standard of living improves in Mexico.

I'd prefer to just let them come here legally and let them be taxpaying participants of our country.


Sounds far more reasonable to me! Why don't we?
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Vaprak » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:55 am

Corth wrote:Sarvis,

Giving an illegal alien a driver's license facilitates their illegal activities within the country. Without a driver's license, if they get pulled over driving to work, for instance, they are getting arrested.. and deported.


Or in the case of where i live, be an illegal immigrant, have no drivers license, blow a stop sign at 50+ mph, T-bone a school bus full of kids (killing 4 and injuring dozens), get convicted at trial (all the while insisting you were not the driver of the van, even though you had to be removed from the driver's seat with the jaws of life) and then spend years in a state prison at taxpayer expense, before you get deported.

Seems fair to me, and I'm sure the 3 families that lost thier children that day think so too (one family lost 2 kids). I'm sure the 2 kids that will be in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives aren't bothered by illegal immigration either.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Gormal » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:07 am

Because if you're not a citizen of this country, you shouldn't be using my tax dollars to pretend that you are. Not to mention how easy a license makes it to vote, unless you think illegals should have a say in our elections. I'm surprised Oregon passed this kind of legislation, and cheered myself when I saw the headline.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Corth » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:08 am

Sarvis,

I think as a nation, if we want to discourage certain conduct all we can do is make laws, enforce them, and then prosecute people that violate them. For instance, criminalizing tax evasion does not make everyone pay their taxes, but fear of incarceration is a powerful incentive to file accurate tax returns. Likewise, if we deported more illegals many would come back but for some of them it would be more trouble than its worth. If we are going to make them illegal, then we should do everything within reason to make it difficult for them to come here and stay here. I would suggest even incarcerating them for a couple of years and THEN deporting them. Sure it would be expensive at first, but eventually very few people would enter the country illegally, and in the long term it would save a lot of money. Of course, like I said before, I would prefer to allow them to just come here legally.

Vaprak,

To be fair, plenty of idiots that are citizens of the US do more or less the same thing. Being stupid does not discriminate by nationality. Sometimes being a bad driver.. but few of these illegals we're complaining about are asian women :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby avak » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:38 am

Well, unsubstantiated, bigoted claims are always fun to talk about so....

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.

and
two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes


but hey, its not like this country was completely and absolutely founded on liberal immigration. I think that now that you and your family are "Americans" its time to shut the door and be exclusive assholes about it.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:05 pm

If only we could keep the immigrants who come over here illegally and work their fingers to the bone to take care of their families, and deport all the deadbeat dads, repeat sex offenders, pushers and hopeless dopeheads and welfare slugs.

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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:12 pm

I was shocked as s**t as well that Oregon went in this direction, but I believe it has to do with the Federal push towards your license becoming the equivalent of a national ID.

Legal immigration is far preferable to illegal immigration, but I don't think there is any question that immigrants are a higher burden on public / social services in the short term and personally, I'd rather not subsidize their life here so they can send their money to Mexico, even if they are paying taxes.
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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Corth » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:33 pm

This is a country of immigrants and all things being equal it has worked out pretty well. With each successive wave of immigration there were indeed problems assimiliating these new people. However, over time they're valuable contributions to our economy, culture, and indeed our nation's heritage, have far exceeded the short term cost. With the obligations of this country reaching previously unheard of levels, including most importantly social security obligations to the retiring baby boomer generation, it is in our interest to allow wealth creating indiviiduals to immigrate here and help work to pay for everyone's comofortable retirement. Better to start a legitimate process now than to wait until later when we will not be in as good a position to bear the short term costs.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:32 pm

Sarvis wrote:
Corth wrote:I'd prefer to just let them come here legally and let them be taxpaying participants of our country.


Sounds far more reasonable to me! Why don't we?


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Re: Oregon law requiring SSN for driver license

Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:14 pm

Corth wrote:This is a country of immigrants and all things being equal it has worked out pretty well. With each successive wave of immigration there were indeed problems assimiliating these new people. However, over time they're valuable contributions to our economy, culture, and indeed our nation's heritage, have far exceeded the short term cost. With the obligations of this country reaching previously unheard of levels, including most importantly social security obligations to the retiring baby boomer generation, it is in our interest to allow wealth creating indiviiduals to immigrate here and help work to pay for everyone's comofortable retirement. Better to start a legitimate process now than to wait until later when we will not be in as good a position to bear the short term costs.


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