FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

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FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Lathander » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:56 pm

Wow, I was just shocked by the audacity of this Democratic Governor of Illinois. Don't have time to comment now, but wanted to create the topic.

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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:28 pm

What's Obamagate?

We're calling this one Cheneygate.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Callarduran » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:50 pm

Obamagate? Really?

OK, look. If Obama is actually guilty of anything here, I'll be just as pissed off as anyone else. But there is nothing to indicate that he is involved, and if anything the quotes from the wiretaps would indicate to me (at least on the surface) that he had nothing to do with it.

Speculation at this point is silly at best, though.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Botef » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:57 pm

Surely he wasn't oblivious to the fact that he is a high profile figure post election and shouldn't be making these kinds of remarks on land lines. Thats like rule #1 of shady politics, even if you have no reason to suspect your line may be tapped. Lols abound.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby avak » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:03 pm

Do you have any evidence, credible or otherwise, to suggest that Obama is involved in the slightest bit?

Discovering Mr Obama’s transition team would not trade emoluments for getting their preferred candidate to fill the president-elect’s vacant seat, the document claims Mr Blagojevich described Mr Obama as a “motherf***er”, adding, “F*** him. For nothing? F*** him.”
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Corth » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:39 pm

The prosecutor went out of his way to indicate that Obama, to his knowledge, is not involved in this. It would of course be a very sensitive situation if they suspected Obama was somehow culpable here in some way. I would expect them to deny any evidence of involvement until they had very strong evidence lined up. That being said, any speculation about Obama's potential involvement is... speculation.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby daggaz » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:03 am

Far more interesting is that Hillary Clinton is inelligible to be Secretary of State, (thank god), because she was a Senator at the same time that the position was voted a wage increase.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:24 am

i hope we see some strong, universal condemnation and then everyone gets back to work.

it sounds pretty obvious that obama didn't want to play ball... or at least that he wasn't stupid enough to play with this moron. Now when they investigate him, and all the other Illinois politics... maybe they will turn up something new on Obama, but I think its very possible that Obama is actually respectable.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Corth » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:13 am

daggaz wrote:Far more interesting is that Hillary Clinton is inelligible to be Secretary of State, (thank god), because she was a Senator at the same time that the position was voted a wage increase.


That one is a non-starter. Happened before, they legislate around it.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:52 pm

So was he corrupt when he came into office, or did the power of the office corrupt him?

And was he really that dumb, or was he just blinded by the office?
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby daggaz » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:55 pm

Corth wrote:
daggaz wrote:Far more interesting is that Hillary Clinton is inelligible to be Secretary of State, (thank god), because she was a Senator at the same time that the position was voted a wage increase.


That one is a non-starter. Happened before, they legislate around it.



Yeah,... the "Reagan Solution." Tho it will be interesting to see if she will take the rather major wage cut, (tho i assume she will). Tho I seem to remember reading about some other mitigating factors which pointed towards it not being so easy to fix this time. Cant remember tho. meh.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Lathander » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:11 am

Man, Obama is really floundering in this mess. He and his staff need to come out and give all the phone records to see who and when his people were talking with Blagojevich. Right now, Obama seems to be trying to hide something. Maybe he didn't do it, but alot of folks suspect high level people in his future administration are involved. Right now, he doesn't have executive privilege as he is not president yet and Congress should appoint a Special Prosecutor.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby kiryan » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:14 am

See thats exactly the type of crap I don't want to see. special investigators, subpoenas, congressional hearings. We all know that shit goes on all the time, the only difference here is this governor was stupid enough to be overt about it. I want them to get back to work fixing shit. If its gotta be climate change, or infrastructure spending fine... but get out of this partisian cycle of making mountains out of molehills. It was Clinton over a fucking BJ and lieing, then Bush and valerie plame. gonzales and the iraq war... I really don't care if they get away with their corrupt ways, because they already do. I just want them to stop F*ing around and fix some shit, like medicare, ssi, ect...

Although... one statement I read in the media that I thought was very damning was someone told him that he's got to sit tight for a couple of years... in other words, do us this favor and you'll get paid in 2 years. iirc that was from the obama team and was essentially pay to play, but do it so that none of us go to jail.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:23 am

Lathander wrote:Man, Obama is really floundering in this mess. He and his staff need to come out and give all the phone records to see who and when his people were talking with Blagojevich. Right now, Obama seems to be trying to hide something. Maybe he didn't do it, but alot of folks suspect high level people in his future administration are involved. Right now, he doesn't have executive privilege as he is not president yet and Congress should appoint a Special Prosecutor.

Obama is ironclad, nobody gives a shit about this except Bill O'RLY.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:44 pm

Also interesting: where was the outrage? It's not like Obama denouced the governer before the wiretaps came out.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Lathander » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:38 pm

Rags,

We haven't seen the opinion polls done since this scandal involving Obama started. Nothing matters until it suddenly does. Obama acting like a regular politician before he is even in office is going to be an anchor around his neck. The way that he and his people are acting tells you there is some meat here.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:45 am

Lathander wrote:Rags,

We haven't seen the opinion polls done since this scandal involving Obama started. Nothing matters until it suddenly does. Obama acting like a regular politician before he is even in office is going to be an anchor around his neck. The way that he and his people are acting tells you there is some meat here.

Image
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Lathander » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:53 am

People said the same thing about Whitewater and it led to impeachment hearings...
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Gormal » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:01 am

News at 10: Politicians are shady.

News at 11: Liberals don't want to contemplate truths that don't fit their preconceptions.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:27 am

Gormal wrote:News at 10: Politicians are shady.

News at 11: Liberals don't want to contemplate truths that don't fit their preconceptions.

News at 12: Conservatives are bitter that they lost the election, will fake outrage at anything they can find.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Corth » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:42 pm

I don't think you need to fake outrage when a senate seat is put up for sale. I mean, you know that politicians are just about always scumbags.. but selling a senate seat is still pretty shocking. On the other hand, its really jumping the gun to lay any blame on Obama or his aides. I think the only reference made to Obama by the Illinois governor on the wiretaps was disgust that Obama was only offering his "appreciation" if a particular candidate was picked. I fail to see how that is illegal, or wrong in any way.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:18 pm

Corth wrote:I don't think you need to fake outrage

Lathandar wrote:The Beginning of Obamagate?


I think I've dignified this thread too much already by even responding in the first place.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:43 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Corth wrote:I don't think you need to fake outrage

Lathandar wrote:The Beginning of Obamagate?


I think I've dignified this thread too much already by even responding in the first place.


Yeah, that'll happen with Lathander's posts...
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Corth » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:05 pm

Ragorn,

Did you read me entire post? I'm with you on this one. I'm honestly outraged that the governor of Illinois would try to sell a Senate seat, and I think at this point it is ridiculous to insinuate that Obama was somehow culpable.

Or are you saying that nobody is truly outraged by the governor's actions?
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:14 am

Corth wrote:Or are you saying that nobody is truly outraged by the governor's actions?

Nah, just that nobody at all is concerned that Obama has anything to do with this.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby kiryan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:25 pm

how can you be outraged over something that is perfectly expected and predictable.

Do you actually believe more than 5% of our politicians are honorable? All this guy did was be blatant about how this shit actually works.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:19 pm

International Media - Clear Liberal Bias

Obama releases an internal report - or in other words, Obama clears himself. This is what the press had to say with their headlines.

BBC: Scandal probe clears Obama team
Bloomberg: Review Finds ‘No Contact’ Between Obama, Blagojevich
Telegraph: Barack Obama advisers cleared over Illinois Senate seat scandal
FT: Report reaffirms Obama’s office in the clear
CBC: Obama aides cleared of wrongdoing in dealings with Blagojevich
Xinghua: Report finds no wrongdoing of Obama team in governor's corruption case

Remember, Obama is clearing himself. That's like the accused saying that they're innocent. (I swears!)
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby avak » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:30 pm

lol

The main reason the internal report is considered legitimate is because there are recordings of the governor's phone conversations and perhaps even other personal conversations.

So, you're the president elect, almost ready to take office. The scandal breaks and you have your attorney document 'all contact' between your staff and the governor's staff....knowing that if you lie you run an extremely high risk of being called out with recorded conversations.

Also, don't forget that there is a federal investigation occurring simultaneously in which Obama and staff are being interviewed.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby kiryan » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:04 am

I personally don't believe emmanuel is as clean as its being suggested. I think they just missed some of the phones, some of the communiques.

I read some stuff from people in the governors office. The one call Blagovich would always take, no matter where he was, was emmanuel's call. How often do you have to call for the staff to know / say this. Official report is Emmanuel and Blago had like 1 phone call in 3 years. It doesn't sound right. It sounds like a spin job to me... not wanting to embarass the new adminsitration before it even takes office. It sounds like to me that Barack is trying to know as little about it as possible and only getting his information from lawyers that talk to the lawyers for his own staff... you got like 20 degrees of insulation on this bitch and theres only one reason for that. To obfuscate the truth and to bury any fallout.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:35 am

Or simply to keep the talking heads on Fox News from exploding over a connection that is tenuous at best.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:48 pm

avak wrote:The main reason the internal report is considered legitimate is because there are recordings of the governor's phone conversations and perhaps even other personal conversations.


And who decides what makes the report and doesn't?

mmmmmmmmmmhm
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby avak » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:05 pm

I'm not sure a response is in my best interest here, but I'm feeling generous today.

The report was authored by Obama's chief legal adviser. Presumably, the Obama team decided what would be in the report. I get that they could put anything in the report that they might want. The reason they didn't is because they would be making an insane gamble (ie possible impeachment).

Put it this way, here's a great strategy for smoking out a lie...assuming you have some credible, but unproven, information...ask the suspected liar to tell you what they know. Cops do that all the time. Sure, the liar can say whatever they might possibly conjure, but depending on the quality of information you have, you either: intelligently bluff and watch the liar confess or you bolster your information through a corroborated lie or a confession.

Obama stayed one step ahead of the controversy by preempting a formal investigation. Waiting would have made him look suspect.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Sarvis » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:14 pm

avak wrote:Waiting would have made him look suspect.


To Republicans bitter about losing the election, EVERYTHING he does makes him look suspect.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:51 pm

Concern troll is concerned!
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby kiryan » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:05 pm

Sarvis wrote:
avak wrote:Waiting would have made him look suspect.


To Republicans bitter about losing the election, EVERYTHING he does makes him look suspect.


Americans bitter about scandal after scandal from Republicans AND Democrats. Lets not pretend that this is about Republicans bitter about the election. I'm pissed all to hell about Alaska's Republcian Stevens, and at least he wasn't being so overt about being corrupt. He just received gifts he "didn't know about".
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:10 pm

Yes. Gifts he didn't know about, that he had in his house, that he used frequently, that he didn't report on his taxes.

He was more discreet about it in the same way that a gunshot wound is more discreet than being run over by a bus.
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby Lathander » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:20 pm

Now Richardson has to pull out of the secretary of Commerce position. So much for change you can believe in... 2010 elections could be a great turning point.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28493919/
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Re: FS: Illinois Senate Seat - The Beginning of Obamagate?

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:36 pm

avak wrote:I'm not sure a response is in my best interest here, but I'm feeling generous today.

The report was authored by Obama's chief legal adviser. Presumably, the Obama team decided what would be in the report. I get that they could put anything in the report that they might want. The reason they didn't is because they would be making an insane gamble (ie possible impeachment).

Put it this way, here's a great strategy for smoking out a lie...assuming you have some credible, but unproven, information...ask the suspected liar to tell you what they know. Cops do that all the time. Sure, the liar can say whatever they might possibly conjure, but depending on the quality of information you have, you either: intelligently bluff and watch the liar confess or you bolster your information through a corroborated lie or a confession.

Obama stayed one step ahead of the controversy by preempting a formal investigation. Waiting would have made him look suspect.


You ever heard of trying a case in the media? There are many reasons why this 'report' (News: Obama Clears Self. You should Trust him.) should never have gotten the reception and respect the media has given it.

But if you want to to trust the accused to determine their own guilt or innocence, bear that in mind when you consider the weight of your opinions... "The main reason the internal report is considered legitimate is because there are recordings..." You have to be kidding me.

*teflor releases an internal report on his savings account, after adding a few more zeros*
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