The UN and world government in general

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kiryan
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The UN and world government in general

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:18 pm

Is the UN or other world government bodies effective or useful?

I'm thinking specifically of the cases of genocide in the past 20 years in light of the 60th anniversary of the treaty where the world agreed to work together against genocide.

I'm thinking of Russia, Georgia and the break away provinces.

I'm thinking of Iran and nuclear work.

I remember hearing that out of like 1,000 UN resolutions 800 of them were against Israel. I really don't know if this is true.

I'm thinking of all the efforts to eradicate poverty and increase education.

I just don't see what our "world government" institutions are actually doing other than pullin their puds and spending money.
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Re: The UN and world government in general

Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:51 pm

So long as things stay one nation, one vote, these organizations will always be useless.
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Re: The UN and world government in general

Postby Kifle » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:19 pm

So long as the economic giants continue to ignore the treaties and limit their power, it is useless to even try. I'm looking at you US.
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Re: The UN and world government in general

Postby Sarvis » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:23 pm

Xisiqomelir wrote:So long as things stay one nation, one vote, these organizations will always be useless.


I'm not sure that 1 nation 1 vote is the problem.. I mean, isn't that how it should be?

The problem is that 7 countries have override power, so the rest of the votes don't mean jack.
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Re: The UN and world government in general

Postby daggaz » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:45 pm

Five countries sit in the Permanent UN Security Council; USA, Great Britannia, France, China, and Russia. These countries are also the worlds biggest exporters of arms, both small-arms and hi-tech military-industrial. These countries have absolute veto rights over all other countries if they can claim national security reasons, which pretty much encompasses everything. These countries were also the world's first nuclear powers.

These countries routinely veto progressive, peace-minded legislation, in favor of profit and power driven (as well as fear driven) policies.

A note in fact, of the 160-some countries which ratified a complete ban against landmines (they easily fit the Geneva convention descriptions of illegal weapons, and come arguably within the definition of WMD), the only nay sayers were the USA, Russia, and Israel. The ONLY ones who voted no.

One cannot speak of effective democracy, so long as the system is completely and effectively hamstrung in this way. There is NO world democracy today. We have only "might makes right."

So if you want to have an effective world democracy, you will need to change the world's acutal power structure, which is something far more easily said than done. Think about it, without some kind of world-wide epiphany towards peace and a better world, the only way to change things on this level is with all out warfare. Its ugly, but its the truth.

Right now there are major efforts in place to enforce a new global system of government, aka "The New World Order", using a) The War on Terror, b) Climate Change, and c) the Global Financial Crisis as the main pretexts. One should be highly suspicious of forces which have no past record of unselfishly benefitting mankind, as well as a long and lengthy record of warmongering, warcrimes, crimes against humanity, economic and social manipulation, and out and out evil schemes completely lacking any morals, and whose only ethic is "he who laughs last, laughs best."

They call it global democracy. The reality is closer to global fascism. Concentrated, centralized power in the hands of the few, and focused against the lives of the many. Read between the lines, and be vary wary these coming years. Change is coming, and without a major effort by the bulk of humanity, we will soon find ourselves in chains, or worse.

I pray for us all, and fight against ignorance and untruths every single day.
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Re: The UN and world government in general

Postby Sarvis » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:00 pm

daggaz wrote:
So if you want to have an effective world democracy, you will need to change the world's acutal power structure, which is something far more easily said than done. Think about it, without some kind of world-wide epiphany towards peace and a better world, the only way to change things on this level is with all out warfare. Its ugly, but its the truth.



You realize a simple restructuring of the UN to get rid of that veto power would accomplish an effective world democracy, right?

But no, call for war when you want peace. It's the ONLY WAY!
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Re: The UN and world government in general

Postby Kifle » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:08 pm

Sarvis wrote:
daggaz wrote:
So if you want to have an effective world democracy, you will need to change the world's acutal power structure, which is something far more easily said than done. Think about it, without some kind of world-wide epiphany towards peace and a better world, the only way to change things on this level is with all out warfare. Its ugly, but its the truth.



You realize a simple restructuring of the UN to get rid of that veto power would accomplish an effective world democracy, right?

But no, call for war when you want peace. It's the ONLY WAY!


I don't think he's far off on the comment, personally. If you take away veto rights, do you really think the US would maintain whatever limited form of adherence to the UN we have now? Probably not. We jump, our enemies jump, etc. Slippery slope or not, it's more realistic than saying changing the structure of the UN to where no one has more power than another is simply rediculous. Especially powers like Russia and China.
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