Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:06 pm

Without reading another post since my last post in this thread, I have decided that I cannot participate in this discussion while being civil or not believing that every single person that believes in any of this stuff isn't a complete moron. Sorry folks, nothing more out of me on this subject. If proof is actually found that the buildings were destroyed in any way that wasn't what was officially described, I will find out about it, evaluate it, and if the evidence is sufficient and true, I will believe in the findings and come to my own conclusions.

Thank you folks, sorry if I have offended you in this thread. If you feel the need to be endlessly insulted, just send me your stuff via PM.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:17 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:So when people say that there isn't enough factual evidence supporting man-made climate change, etc., and ask for more scientific proof of it, why are so many people, including many in this thread, so critical of those people?

Because you're supposed to be critical of EVERYTHING you read.

Aside from that, source matters. Climate change is a tricky subject to form a valid opinion on because SO MUCH of the "research" out there is being funded by special interest groups with a profitable agenda. A climate study funded by ExxonMobil probably (note: probably, not definitely) isn't a credible source. Neither is a study funded by Berkeley University, who regularly receives donations from environmental activist groups.

For 9/11 truthers, the government isn't a credible source. Those people believe that the reams of physical and photographic evidence provided by the government are falsified, and are thus looking for any scrap of evidence which disagrees with the offical record. That's fine... if that's what you think, then that's what you think. Just be aware that MOST PEOPLE see anti-government activists as untrustworthy sources. Regardless of what this paper says, the fact that it was written by someone actively looking to discredit the government will cast it in a very suspicious light to most people.

That's why my first post included the phrase THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO YOU, WAKE UP SHEEPLE!! That's pretty much the rallying cry of people who distrust the government and can't believe that their opinion is such a minority.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:55 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:So when people say that there isn't enough factual evidence supporting man-made climate change, etc., and ask for more scientific proof of it, why are so many people, including many in this thread, so critical of those people?

Because you're supposed to be critical of EVERYTHING you read.


At the same time your supposed to keep an open mind while reading these things and allow the person writing it the oppurtunity to present their case. When u see something and think to your self this person is full of shit, no matter what you are going to have a biased opinion of the paper.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Sarvis » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:15 pm

amena wolfsnarl wrote:
Ragorn wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:So when people say that there isn't enough factual evidence supporting man-made climate change, etc., and ask for more scientific proof of it, why are so many people, including many in this thread, so critical of those people?

Because you're supposed to be critical of EVERYTHING you read.


At the same time your supposed to keep an open mind while reading these things and allow the person writing it the oppurtunity to present their case. When u see something and think to your self this person is full of shit, no matter what you are going to have a biased opinion of the paper.



You know what's really funny? Daggaz didn't give us a link to the paper, so none of us have even been able to read it... yet several of you are supporting it.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby oteb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:18 pm

Sarvis wrote:You know what's really funny? Daggaz didn't give us a link to the paper, so none of us have even been able to read it... yet several of you are supporting it.


Really? Name one person in this thread other than auther that supports it.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Im not supporting it at the moment, I always thought some things dont add up and I'd like to read more on it. And even before you've read it your blasting it to hell, like i said give it a chance, read it with an open mind, than blast it to hell if you feel that the facts behind it arent worth your time.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Kifle » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:03 am

Sarvis wrote:
Kifle wrote:I find it funny that people who claim to promote science and the scientific procedure are mocking Dag. It's hilarious that these same people will discount information because it may agree with a "conspiracy." I'll put that in my notebook on ways to win arguments: label it as a conspiracy, and people will be too ashamed to the point of being mad at somebody who attempts to investigate anything even peripherally related to the topic.


You know what's interesting? The same people who think this paper makes sense without being critical of it are the same ones who seem to be religious.

The people who claim to promote science are doing what we should do. Being critical of something. Scientists do NOT read a book and go "OK that must be true because someone wrote it down." Scientists are very critical of everything and subject it to study. Step 1 is create a hypothesis, step 2 is test it... attempt to disprove or confirm it.

I guess when you're used to believing everything in a 2000 year old book must be true, believing everything you read must be second nature.


First of all, I'm an atheist, dipshit.

Second, I don't think there exists a person in this thread, save Daggaz, who has even READ the paper, let alone "thinks [it] makes sense." What I think makes sense is to read the thing before making a damn judgement -- like you. There's a difference between being critical and being a fucking douche. You're being a fucking douche. See, in science, they like to look at the hypothesis before trying to disprove it. Only a person who is hyper-emotional to the subject (conspiracies in general/911/etc) would even dream of criticizing something they have absolutely zero knowledge of.

So, you completely fucking skipped step one (as you would have to read the paper first), pissed on step two, and ignored the disjunction -- simply confirming the denial. You're a sad, sad excuse for somebody who espouses the scientific method.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Sarvis » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:04 pm

Kifle wrote:
Sarvis wrote:
Kifle wrote:I find it funny that people who claim to promote science and the scientific procedure are mocking Dag. It's hilarious that these same people will discount information because it may agree with a "conspiracy." I'll put that in my notebook on ways to win arguments: label it as a conspiracy, and people will be too ashamed to the point of being mad at somebody who attempts to investigate anything even peripherally related to the topic.


You know what's interesting? The same people who think this paper makes sense without being critical of it are the same ones who seem to be religious.

The people who claim to promote science are doing what we should do. Being critical of something. Scientists do NOT read a book and go "OK that must be true because someone wrote it down." Scientists are very critical of everything and subject it to study. Step 1 is create a hypothesis, step 2 is test it... attempt to disprove or confirm it.

I guess when you're used to believing everything in a 2000 year old book must be true, believing everything you read must be second nature.


First of all, I'm an atheist, dipshit.

Second, I don't think there exists a person in this thread, save Daggaz, who has even READ the paper, let alone "thinks [it] makes sense." What I think makes sense is to read the thing before making a damn judgement -- like you. There's a difference between being critical and being a fucking douche. You're being a fucking douche. See, in science, they like to look at the hypothesis before trying to disprove it. Only a person who is hyper-emotional to the subject (conspiracies in general/911/etc) would even dream of criticizing something they have absolutely zero knowledge of.

So, you completely fucking skipped step one (as you would have to read the paper first), pissed on step two, and ignored the disjunction -- simply confirming the denial. You're a sad, sad excuse for somebody who espouses the scientific method.


Dude, considering you pretty much had the same sentiment against everyone being critical of the initial post you don't have much room to talk. Bashing people for being skeptical isn't better than bashing them for being credulous. As for you being an atheist, I probably confused you with someone else. Oh no, I made a mistake. I must be a terrible person. :roll:
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:48 pm

How about we lock this thread and when (if) the paper does actually get linked, everyone can start over in a new one?
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Gormal » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:53 pm

daggaz wrote:My chemistry professor Niels Harrit at Copenhagen University, in conjunction with Steven E. Jones from Brigham Young University and at least seven other PHDs from various research centers around the world, is releasing a groundbreaking research article today.


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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Kifle » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:49 pm

Sarvis wrote:Dude, considering you pretty much had the same sentiment against everyone being critical of the initial post you don't have much room to talk. Bashing people for being skeptical isn't better than bashing them for being credulous. As for you being an atheist, I probably confused you with someone else. Oh no, I made a mistake. I must be a terrible person. :roll:


And now you're being an idiot. We had different sentiments. Mine was, "don't be critical without evidence or reason to do so." Yours was, "I'm going to flame somebody before ever seeing the evidence of why I should." You assume it was shit, I assume nothing because I haven't seen it. Thus, I'm actually being rational about the subject, while you and the rest of the "haters" are being irrational douchbags who flame somebody for having a differing opinion before even knowing why they have a differing opinion. There's a huge difference, and if you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you other than welcome to my ignore.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Sarvis » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:54 pm

Kifle wrote: you and the rest of the "haters" are being irrational douchbags



Yep, the sentiments were SO much different.

Actually they were, I was just pointing something out You've fallen into hatred and revulsion of people for NO FUCKING REASON.

Please ignore me. Let's see if we can fracture this community up a bit more over petty disagreements. Just remember, I'm not the one who called you and everyone else who doesn't believe this poorly presented 9/11 argument an irrational douchebag.

EDIT: Oh, and doing forget to point out how you can't read my posts every few threads! Otherwise I might forget you're shunning me!
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Kifle » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:57 pm

Sarvis wrote:
Kifle wrote: you and the rest of the "haters" are being irrational douchbags



Yep, the sentiments were SO much different.

Actually they were, I was just pointing something out You've fallen into hatred and revulsion of people for NO FUCKING REASON.

Please ignore me. Let's see if we can fracture this community up a bit more over petty disagreements. Just remember, I'm not the one who called you and everyone else who doesn't believe this poorly presented 9/11 argument an irrational douchebag.


Again, if you don't see how you're being much different than me, then I'll gladly put you on ignore. I can't remember the last time you've made a rational argument on this bored in the last two years or so. I used to respect a lot of the things you would say in political threads; however, now you just argue to argue and it seems more like a sport. I'm sorry for whatever may have happened in your life to where winning internet arguments became extremely meaningful to you and you feel the need to argue anything, but it's just not for me. Sure, you're not Teflor, but you're getting there. I'll unignore you at some point and hope you revert back to cool Sarvis.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Sarvis » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:04 pm

Kifle wrote:
Sarvis wrote:
Kifle wrote: you and the rest of the "haters" are being irrational douchbags



Yep, the sentiments were SO much different.

Actually they were, I was just pointing something out You've fallen into hatred and revulsion of people for NO FUCKING REASON.

Please ignore me. Let's see if we can fracture this community up a bit more over petty disagreements. Just remember, I'm not the one who called you and everyone else who doesn't believe this poorly presented 9/11 argument an irrational douchebag.


Again, if you don't see how you're being much different than me,



Well, for one thing I'm not calling people douchebags because I disagree with them.

then I'll gladly put you on ignore. I can't remember the last time you've made a rational argument on this bored in the last two years or so. I used to respect a lot of the things you would say in political threads; however, now you just argue to argue and it seems more like a sport. I'm sorry for whatever may have happened in your life to where winning internet arguments became extremely meaningful to you and you feel the need to argue anything, but it's just not for me. Sure, you're not Teflor, but you're getting there. I'll unignore you at some point and hope you revert back to cool Sarvis.


What's really funny about this is that I'm arguing FAR less than I used to. I'm sorry you don't think I'm being rational, and on that ONE post you're somewhat correct, but I've really toned shit down a lot since I took a break from the site.

You, however, are taking ever more abrasive stances... such as advocating mass starvation in Africa as a solution to hunger problems.

Hell in this thread I didn't even once argue against the paper, I only got into it when oteb (I think) questioned the explosion at the top of the tower. Yet to you I'm bing a doucehbage for criticizing it? Who's irrational, again?
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Gormal » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:38 pm

Its about time you came around Kifle.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Lorendel Ebonmist » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:50 pm

after reading this and the 2006 thread

and not really thinking out what im gonna to say here just what i know and feel, without any additional research, would like to porse a couple questions
to the Toril "scientific commuity" and to "bumbling masses of conflicting
neuron-driven carbon-based masses".

1) The effect of the building contents on fire,, namely petroleum contrived plastics, thousands of miles of insulated plastic, their intereactions with other petreleum-based synthetic fibers, etc. The Sears Tower has over 43K of phone lines alones(and it's own area and zip code).
2) For anyone that still questions what kind of planes hit the towers, See Janes, any craft can be identified from naught but its blackened shadowed silhouette.
3) magnesium and deep-sixing burning aircraft...not even AFFF can help with that.

5) George Bush must be the most intelligent being on the planet. We should elect him Emperial Ruler, cause he is one smart MF'er, having pulled this off.
Last edited by Lorendel Ebonmist on Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:44 pm

Do we have a link yet to the ground breaking research paper? Or perhaps a news article?
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:45 pm

Corth wrote:Do we have a link yet to the ground breaking research paper? Or perhaps a news article?


No, but I did a GIS for the author and came up with a few things that were unflattering. You should probably ignore me for being skeptical....
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby daggaz » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:19 am

Ok here it is finally. It came a lot later than my professor thought, as the paper was subjected to a very meticulous varification process, due of course to the highly political nature of the ramifications therein.

It is published in the Open Chemical Physics Journal, and is freely available for download from the web by anyone without registration or payment. The article is entitled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe" and is the first article in volume two.

http://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/openaccess2.htm

As for the "unflattering" links.. Niels is outspoken on this subject, and of course you get a lot of flack from people for even mentioning the subject. It would be wise to be fully fluent in danish before you take all the comments to heart, as on many of those so called "debunker" sites where he gets his heaviest critics, there are equally as many danes standing up for him. It should be noted as well that his research is fully supported by the University of Copenhagen.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby daggaz » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:28 am

Oh and here is the first article on the paper, for our Nordic readers.

http://www.videnskab.dk/content/dk/tekn ... ade_center
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Ardessa Moonblade » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:06 pm

Watch the movie Zeitgeist, it thoroughly debunks the "official" story of 9-11. People can debate the issues of this tragedy until the cows come home, but you can't deny the simple science of things.

A great example is that Jet Fuel only burns at a maximum level which is below that needed to melt steel. And yet... there was _molten_ steel at the bottom of all three building collapse sites for weeks after the attack.

The most glaring and inexplicable mistake in the explanation is that Building 7 wasn't hit by an airplane, and yet managed to pancake collapse as well. How is this even possible?
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Dalar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:28 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Pretty good video on 9-11 conspiracy theories.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Botef » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:15 pm

lol at Zeitgeist. Lets start with religious conspiracy, move into 9-11 and end with big brother so we appeal to the greatest number of tin foilers.
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Ragorn » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:08 pm

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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:34 pm

Where do I sign up!
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:15 am

the collection method leaves a lot to be desired for this to be taken seriously at all
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Sarvis » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:47 am

I was skimming the Fark thread part of the afternoon (I don't get a whole lot of work done when I only get 3 hours of sleep...) and a lot of people are saying you had an aluminum plane and iron in the building. This guy is saying iron oxide (rust) and aluminum flakes...

Thermite, or rust coated with airplane remnants?

I'd like to think there's a bit more to making "super-thermite" but there's no way I'm trying to read a chemistry paper on three hours sleep!
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Ragorn » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:03 am

amena wolfsnarl wrote:the collection method leaves a lot to be desired for this to be taken seriously at all

What, you don't believe that someone was "collecting samples" ten minutes after ground zero?
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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Corth » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:06 am

Thermite is iron powder mixed with aluminum powder. Super thermite is iron dust mixed with aluminum dust..

I don't really need to go into the science of it to make a conclusion. What we do know is a plane was hijacked by radical islamists who then committed suicide by crashing said plane into the world trade center. Explain to me how GWB conspires to get 6 al queda members to commit suicide in order to carry out his nefarious goals. He must be the smartest man ever.

Ok fine, so you want to talk science. If you think that a fueled jumbo jet crashing full speed into a skyscraper won't result in some chemical reactions, you are out of your mind. Even if the samples used were trustworthy, how do you reach a conclusion that the thermite reaction was a planned thermite reaction?

Really it seems to me that deep down inside the 9/11 conspiracy people just want to discredit GWB. Its a waste of time. There are plenty of ways to discredit him without fashioning a hat out of tinfoil and pissing on occam's razor.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Ground Breaking Research Paper on 9-11

Postby Corth » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:54 pm

Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.

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