Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

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Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:19 pm

Cheney said that rather than acting on GM, the Bush administration “put together a package that tided GM over until the new administration had a chance to look at it.” This included the original $17.4 billion auto industry bailout package signed in by the Bush administration late last year, which was designed to give the incoming Obama administration some time to adjust and make preparations for the inevitable GM bankruptcy.
- http://www.motorauthority.com/dick-chen ... on-gm.html


Cute.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Ragorn » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:01 pm

Beat me to the punch.

Kiryan?
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:07 pm

So whats your point? Bush bailed out the unions, i mean auto makers? If thats what you are insinuiating you are crazy.

Bush could've.. should've let them go into bankruptcy in December. Do you remember them being very public about needing to file for bankruptcy on Dec 1st or 6th or something? Obama personally asked Bush and pleaded with Republicans and everyone through the media to not let the automakers go under before they took office.

So why did he bail them out? The real reason is probably because they didn't want to be blamed for letting the automakers fail. I think they gave the Democrats a rope to hang themselves with, and I think its working.

But besides the calculating strategy, I think Bush was trying to be a real gentleman in how he handled the hand off to Obama... to the point of doing the GM deal so Obama could do what he wanted and not "inherit" Bush's "mess". Remember how Bush came into office? Clinton staffers had pulled a bunch of pranks and acted very unprofessionally. Do you think Bush might've wanted to make sure he treated Obama better?

I'm biased, but I think you forget how vocal Dems and Obama was that the automakers needed to be bailed out. They wanted it, they demanded it... and they had just thoroughly kicked the Republican's @$$ in the November election. Give Republicans some credit here, Bush did what was respectable. He could've very easily called the automaker's bluff and no one could've stopped him. Only vilified him after the fact.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:25 pm

kiryan wrote:So whats your point? Bush bailed out the unions, i mean auto makers? If thats what you are insinuiating you are crazy.


No, what I'm implying is exactly what I said: Bush left a bad situation for the next administration by using our tax dollars to prolong the bankruptcy of a large company.

Bush could've.. should've let them go into bankruptcy in December. Do you remember them being very public about needing to file for bankruptcy on Dec 1st or 6th or something? Obama personally asked Bush and pleaded with Republicans and everyone through the media to not let the automakers go under before they took office.

So why did he bail them out? The real reason is probably because they didn't want to be blamed for letting the automakers fail. I think they gave the Democrats a rope to hang themselves with, and I think its working.

But besides the calculating strategy, I think Bush was trying to be a real gentleman in how he handled the hand off to Obama... to the point of doing the GM deal so Obama could do what he wanted and not "inherit" Bush's "mess". Remember how Bush came into office? Clinton staffers had pulled a bunch of pranks and acted very unprofessionally. Do you think Bush might've wanted to make sure he treated Obama better?

I'm biased, but I think you forget how vocal Dems and Obama was that the automakers needed to be bailed out. They wanted it, they demanded it... and they had just thoroughly kicked the Republican's @$$ in the November election. Give Republicans some credit here, Bush did what was respectable. He could've very easily called the automaker's bluff and no one could've stopped him. Only vilified him after the fact.


Isn't "calling the automakers bluff" what he should have done, though? Don't I remember you constantly talking about how bailouts are bad, and we need to let poorly run companies fail?

I mean, why is it ok when Bush does it? Especially when he does it in a way that will make the next administration look bad when the company still fails?
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Ragorn » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:40 pm

kiryan wrote:So why did he bail them out? The real reason is probably because they didn't want to be blamed for letting the automakers fail. I think they gave the Democrats a rope to hang themselves with

Yes, and therein lies the problem.

The Bush administration paid $17.4 billion of your money to sweep the problem under the carpet so the next guy would step in and have to clean up the mess. This is the very definition of leaving Obama a mess to "inherit." You're annoyed that Clinton's staffers stole all the pens and unscrewed the lightbulbs, but it doesn't bother you that the Bush administration intentionally wasted ten digits worth of taxpayer money for the sole reason of giving Obama "a rope to hang" himself with? You piss and moan about every dollar the Democrats spend, but at least Obama's adminstration required the carmakers to pony up a business plan before he injected cash into their treasuries. Bush didn't even do that. He wrote them a blank check on his last day in town.

and I think it's working

You do?
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:17 pm

I forget the figure I've read, 64-75% of americans are against the automaker's bailout. The supreme court granted a stay against the sale of Chrysler to Fiat. Dealerships are closing across the country despite the automakers being bailed out? I said I think its working because I don't see a good or tidy or positive resolution to the union bailout. Maybe Obama can spin this one too, but I don't think for much longer. and they asked for it. Thats giving them a rope.

Obama and the Democrats asked very publcily that Bush give the automakers money so they could deal with it the way they wanted. Bush and Republicans "dealing" with the problem would've been letting them go bankrupt as they should've because they were not viable due to their onerous union contracts. I was always for them going bankrupt and I am very irritated that Bush bailed them out. Of all the stuff he did, the two worst from my POV were the patriot act and the bailouts (bank and union).

--

Interesting thing, I read that Ford or GM signed the first union contract as a strategic move to raise the barriers to entry for other manufacturers. I think they were paying 2x the prevailing wage of the time. THey didn't think anyone else could build cars without agreeing to the same terms which would prevent them from being able to start up operations.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:25 pm

kiryan wrote: the two worst from my POV were the patriot act and the bailouts (bank and union).


So it's the worst thing he did, but it's ok that he did it because the Democrats asked for it and therefore it's <i>their</i> fault? Because, you know, the guy in charge should just do everything anyone asks of him.

These mental gymnastics of yours are really pretty fun.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:48 pm

Where did I say its ok he did it. I don't agree with them at all. Neither one. I am vehemently opposed. Do you see me out here going hey bailouts are good or patriot act was good? no.

I'm just arguing with you that you want to pin the blame for the automaker bailout on Bush, thats not fair. He maybe responsible for their failure because of his responsibility for the broader economy, but as far as the bailout goes, Obama and Dems asked for it and Bush deferred to the incoming administration and Democratic majority. I think that is pretty clear.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:16 pm

kiryan wrote:Where did I say its ok he did it. I don't agree with them at all. Neither one. I am vehemently opposed. Do you see me out here going hey bailouts are good or patriot act was good? no.



Kiryan wrote:Give Republicans some credit here, Bush did what was respectable.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:39 pm

I strongly disagree that makes Bush responsible for Obama's bailout of the unions by starting it, and I'll argue with you over who is responsible for the 17 billion Bush gave them. Obama and the Democrats all but begged publicly for Bush to do it.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:53 pm

kiryan wrote:I strongly disagree that makes Bush responsible for Obama's bailout of the unions by starting it, and I'll argue with you over who is responsible for the 17 billion Bush gave them. Obama and the Democrats all but begged publicly for Bush to do it.


Bush still signed the paperwork. He didn't have to. He could have, and perhaps should have for once, stood up for his parties actual beliefs. He did not.

You are trying to blame Obama for a decision Bush made.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Corth » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:02 pm

This is a lot of bullshit, Sarvis. You are purposefully misconstruing what happened.

I was following this very closely a few months ago when it happened. The Bush administration was inclined to just let the automakers fail without any bailout (for once!). However, in consultation with the incoming Obama administration, which was not inclined to let the industry fail, they tided it over so that Obama could act upon it. It was an act of courtesy towards the incoming administration.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby shalath » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:01 am

Sarvis,

I've seen you post some crap before, but...wow, this takes the biscuit.

I'm pretty sure that if a modern day Voltaire were to read what you write, he would declare that he would not give his life to make it possible for you to continue to write.

-simon

(Not to mention the fact that the quote was not in fact from Voltaire, but that's neither here nor there).
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:41 am

Sarvis wrote:He could have, and perhaps should have for once, stood up for his parties actual beliefs. He did not.


Republicans believe in America, democracy, civil service, and representing the people. I'm sure Bush was standing up for party beliefs when he made that decision. I'm sure you lack the ability to understand that people have more than one belief and that they sometimes interact to produce a result that isn't completely one-sided.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:26 am

In an interview Tuesday with CNBC’s John Harwood, Obama maintained that these interventions didn’t begin on his watch. “When I came in … the previous administration had already put in $10 billion to shore up the auto companies and asked nothing in return,” he said.

“Now, I had three choices. I could continue giving them money without asking anything in return, I could let them liquidate in the midst of the worst recession since the Great Depression, or we could say, ‘We don't want to run your company. Would you show us a plan that allows you to stand on your own two feet, so that what we're providing is a meaningful bridge for you to get to a better future?’”

Obama concluded, “We chose option three. That's not something that we welcomed, and the sooner we can get out the better.”



Holy F*ing shit, he actually believes himself. Beg for Bush to give them money, then blame him for doing what you asked him to do... Where is the intellectual honesty. At least GWB was supposedly an idiot, whats Obama's excuse for what amounts to flat out lie. Where is the media challenge... I mean he got the kiddy gloves when he lied about being part of the civil rights protests... but this really takes the cake.

--
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/po ... 1auto.html

Published: November 10, 2008
WASHINGTON — The struggling auto industry was thrust into the middle of a political standoff between the White House and Democrats on Monday as President-elect Barack Obama urged President Bush in a meeting at the White House to support immediate emergency aid.

--
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/11/oba ... elief.html
Obama Presses President Bush About Automaker Relief

November 11, 2008

By Bill Visnic

The Associated Press reports today that President-elect Barack Obama, meeting yesterday with President George W. Bush, "suggested" Detroit's reeling automakers need financial assistance -- and need it now. Obama appears to believe keeping the domestic automakers afloat is vital to keeping the nation's flagging economic engine firing -- but he does not become president until January.
--

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... lCucXR33Jw

Nov. 13 (Bloomberg) -- President-elect Barack Obama is pushing Congress this year to approve as much as $50 billion to save cash-starved U.S. automakers and appoint a czar or board to oversee the companies, a move that would require President George W. Bush's support, people familiar with the matter said.

Obama's economic advisers are now convinced that if General Motors Corp. doesn't get a financial lifeline soon, it will have to file for bankruptcy by the end of January. And if the companies don't get almost $50 billion, Obama will be dealing with the issue again by next summer.
...
Obama's Exception

By injecting himself into the talks about how to save General Motors, Obama is making an exception to his decision to steer clear of policy-making until he takes office.

The president-elect also wants the Federal Reserve to extend emergency loans to General Motors, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, according to Obama aides who spoke on condition of anonymity.

---

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/b ... 081105.htm

Automakers Turn Focus To Obama
Unsuccessful in their effort to lobby Bush Administration officials to back industry bailout plans, US automakers are turning their attention to the President-elect, Barack Obama. The Wall Street Journal reports US auto makers "are turning their focus to lobbying the next president for emergency aid after unsuccessful efforts to persuade the Bush administration, an official for one of the Detroit auto makers said Tuesday."
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:32 am

kiryan wrote:whats Obama's excuse for what amounts to flat out lie.


In what way is stating the events that happened a lie?
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:37 am

You know I'm really not surprised you can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:39 am

kiryan wrote:You know I'm really not surprised you can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie.


So you're saying Bush _didn't_ sign a bailout package for the auto industry?
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Ragorn » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:29 am

kiryan wrote:You know I'm really not surprised you can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie.

You know, I'm really not surprised you can't tell the difference between the economic package that Obama asked for and the blank check that GWB wrote. In giving the automakers free money with no strings attached, GWB did nothing but light billions of your dollars on fire.

That's not what Obama asked for.

That's not what the Democrats pushed for.

That was a half-assed attempt by a lame duck president to push the issue out a couple months so he could make a red-faced exit.

Can't pin this one on Obama, sorry Kiryan. I know you want to call Obama the messiah a lot and try to insinuate that he's to blame for the economic crisis that started in April 2008, but you just can't make that connection. GWB heard the Democrats calling for an economic action plan, but because he's a Republican the only part of the proposal he actually understood was "give the corporations more free money," so that's all he did.

And, like every other time Republicans try to fix our economy by giving corporations free money with no feasible plan for reconstruction or recompensation, it failed.

You don't get to blame the then-junior Senator from Illinois for that failure.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Corth » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:15 pm

Its bullshit Ragorn. That money was given at the behest of the Obama administration as a courtesy - to keep them going until Obama could get into office and come up with a plan.

The fact of the matter though is Obama is right. He inherited this economy and the bailouts. He has incorrectly continued the wrongheaded policies of the GWB administration. With respect to the automakers, not that it matters very much, GWB did exactly what Obama asked him to do.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:43 pm

What Corth said. Obama owns the auto maker bailout, and its shocking to me that anyone, Obama most of all, would try and pin that on Bush.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:46 pm

Who signed over the money, again?

I'm sorry if I expect the leader of the free world to have a pair and, you know, stand up for his principles.

Clearly it's Obama's fault that Bush gave in to peer pressure like a 4th grader being offered a cigarette.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Corth » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:58 pm

There are so many way to complain about GWB - this is the last one you guys should be concentrating on.

For once he was inclined to actually do the right thing - let the automakers fail. Obama on the other hand didn't want to let them fail, so he asks for a FAVOR. Give them enough $$ to get them through to my administration. As a matter of courtesy, GWB does what Obama wanted. And Now the Obama supporters rail him about it? Utterly ridiculous.

As for Ragorn's statement that all he did was throw money at the problem.. do you think it would have been preferable for a lame duck president to convene an automobile task force like Obama's and draw up plans for saving those companies which surely would not be carried out until a new administration was in place? If GWB had put in place a more comprehensive solution he would have been rightfully called out on overstepping the reasonable authority of a president with just a month or so left in office. Moreover, when Obama came into office, he did the same exact thing - gave money, while his task force attempted to figure out a resolution. It was about getting them through a few months until a more comprehenisve solution could be put in place - by nobody else but Obama.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:58 pm

Why would GWB and the republicans bail out the automakers who channel an unbelievable amount of money into the Democratic party... They already lost the election... they had nothing to gain.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:59 pm

kiryan wrote:Why would GWB and the republicans bail out the automakers who channel an unbelievable amount of money into the Democratic party... They already lost the election... they had nothing to gain.


So even with nothing to gain he turned his back on his own principles? Color me surprised.

Or not.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:46 am

Sarvis wrote:So even with nothing to gain he turned his back on his own principles? Color me surprised.

Or not.


Republicans have principles like reduction of the government, representing the people, and supporting democracy in America. I'm sure Bush was standing up for party principles when he made that decision. I'm sure you lack the ability to understand that people have more than one principle and that they sometimes interact to produce a result that isn't completely one-sided.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:14 pm

Wow Teffie, I think that's the only post you've made this morning which is actually coherent. Good job!

Image

Keep this up and someone other than Corth and me might actually read your posts! (Although probably not.)
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:56 pm

Sarvis wrote:Wow Teffie, I think that's the only post you've made this morning which is actually coherent. Good job!

Image

Keep this up and someone other than Corth and me might actually read your posts! (Although probably not.)


Thank you for the compliment. I get enough feedback from others in the community that I continue to post here, so your response is appreciated, if not necessary.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Kifle » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:58 pm

Sarvis wrote:Keep this up and someone other than Corth and me might actually read your posts! (Although probably not.)
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:03 pm

Kifle wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Keep this up and someone other than Corth and me might actually read your posts! (Although probably not.)


Yeah, people are ignorant.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Botef » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:45 pm

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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Ragorn » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:45 am

I was tricked into reading posts that I ignore for a reason.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Kifle » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:17 am

Ragorn wrote:I was tricked into reading posts that I ignore for a reason.


You mean you clicked a teflor post to see "blah blah, you don't understand, blah blah, you're ignorant, blah blah, I have small penis anger issues"?
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:35 pm

Ragorn wrote:I was tricked into reading posts that I ignore for a reason.


Can't blame me! I was careful not to quote him...
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm

Kifle wrote:You mean you clicked a teflor post to see "blah blah, you don't understand, blah blah, you're ignorant, blah blah, I have small penis anger issues"?


The demonstrated philosophy of Kifle: to ignore what others have to say and insult them blindly.

For anyone that is forced to become involved with this person, a polite warning. This is the quality of character, and the fearful, instinctive response he has to the adversity of another human being believing that he is narrow-minded bigot that seeks to punish those who are not like-minded. This is what he presents instead of rising to the challenge of spirited debate.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Kifle » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:57 pm

I'm going on a limb here and guessing that post contained no less than 2xignorant, a sprinkling of can't read, an oz. of at least one of the following: ragorn, sarvis, or myself, and a smattering of I'm better than you are. It's sad that even when you have somebody on ignore and they are so 1 dimensional that you can almost always guess what they typed.

On topic: I'm sure if GW had let the automakers fail, and shit turned sour, people would be blaming him for not installing the stop-gap he did at the end of his administration. I don't think he could have acted any better in that situation -- party politics or not. If he goes with his "party platform" of "let it sort itself out/free market" and doesn't spend the money, he is blamed for "insulting" the obama administration for not giving them a fair start. This makes the republican party look even worse and more to blame for the economy. If he spends the money, which he did, he is "going against" policy and furthering the national debt (among other things that have been said such as giving free money with no long-term investment). It was a lose/lose situation, but, honestly, I'm glad he gave the new administration the ability to reach their own decisions rather than have no decision to make. GW has done a lot of retarded shit that seriously fucked this country over during his 8yrs, but this is not one of them. He left gracefully imo.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:13 pm

I thought so too, and I think its real classy that he hasn't come out to attack Obama even though Obama continuously reminds us that everything is Bush's fault.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:23 pm

kiryan wrote:I thought so too, and I think its real classy that he hasn't come out to attack Obama even though Obama continuously reminds us that everything is Bush's fault.


9/11.


EDIT: And really, why WOULD Bush attack anyone at this point? His best bet is to lay low and hope everyone forgets he existed. If he speaks out against Obama it will just make the Republican party look bad and remind the populace of the Republican leadership we've grown to detest.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:45 pm

Good point. However difficult to do. When was the last time you backed down from someone trashing your good name? I know its extremely hard for me personally even when I know the other guy is a douche bag.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:48 pm

kiryan wrote:Good point. However difficult to do. When was the last time you backed down from someone trashing your good name? I know its extremely hard for me personally even when I know the other guy is a douche bag.



Given that Bush is probably laughing his way to the bank and partying up in his retirement, I'd say pretty easy.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Republican leadership were trying to keep him under wraps.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:58 pm

So GWB became president of the united states for the money? Thats your answer?

Republican party is probably glad he is keeping his mouth shut, but I don't think that is the reason GWB is keeping a low profile.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby Kifle » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:41 am

Sarvis wrote:
kiryan wrote:Good point. However difficult to do. When was the last time you backed down from someone trashing your good name? I know its extremely hard for me personally even when I know the other guy is a douche bag.



Given that Bush is probably laughing his way to the bank and partying up in his retirement, I'd say pretty easy.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Republican leadership were trying to keep him under wraps.


As much as I hate what his administration did, I highly doubt that is the true outcome of the guy. From the looks of him, he was entirely drained and probably isn't "that" bad of a guy; however, I think the job forced him into a lot of things he would rather ignore. He is somebody who floated through life and avoided any tough decisions. He then found himself in one of the most powerful, demanding positions in the entire world. That was not a job for him, and it is easy to imagine how most of what happened during those eight years was less because of him and more because he just didn't want to do anything. He let Cheny, Ashcroft, Rove, et al. make the decisions while he took most of the rap. So, while I am against most of what that office did, the politics they used, and the forest fire of propaganda they employed that is now mainstream, I think it is unwise to hate the man. I think the administration would have a much different face, much more moderate leaning on either side, if he had a spine or wanted the job for what it is rather than what it was painted to be for him. It is more probable that he is a neurotic mess rather than laughing and partying right now.
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Re: Republicans Passing the Buck - with YOUR tax dollars

Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:08 pm

every leader second guesses himself and spends the rest of his life wondering if he should've made different decisions. probably the only thing keeping Bush sane is the fact that we didn't suffer another terrorist attack on US soil. Someday that justification will fade in his own mind and the destruction of civil liberties and the expansion of executive power will probably weigh heavy on his heart.

If obamacare passes and trillions in new entitlements, maybe sooner than later.

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