harvard professor incident

[kiryan]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/harvar ... index.html

A few things that irritate the living crap out of me.

1. police officers

Getting all uppity and having so many laws that protect them and allow them to haul virtually anyone to jail unless you kiss their ass. I really hate that. I wish that we lived in an evnironment were you could verbally challenge the police, that they weren't a bunch of drunk on authority assholes. Where you can refuse to obey a police officer and not have to worry about being thrown in jail.

In every service organization I have worked for, we are taught that people have shitty days and you can feed into that or you can be a positive moment in a bad day. Its not "fair" it doesn't take your "rights" to not be badgered into account, but it is the right thing to do. After the cop was finally shown ID, he should've just apologized to the professor for the trouble and left. Not hauled him off to jail for being an ass hat.

Related to this is the stupid city. Dropping the charges (probably with prejudice so they can't be reinstated) and giving the professor a full apology. Now they going to get sued, and they much less standing since they essentially admitted they were wrong with the apology.

2. the double standard

A powerful harvard professor (a black man) can act like hes above the law and refuse to show identification and get away with it. Sotomayer makes racists comments and becomes supreme court justice. If it was a white professor and a minority cop, there would be no sympathy for the professor. Clearly race is still a huge factor in our day to day lives and clearly minorities are more equal. It is absolutely ridiculous that the double standard is only called one way. Thank God the supreme court has shifted away from enshrining racism in law via the firefighter case, the voting districts and the school case. Now if we could convince black people that they are responsible for their own success and stop blaming the man.

3. the president

More evidence that Obama does not understand what it is to be president. He approaches it from an academic direction. He gives lectures and expects all the students to diligently implement his ideas. He talks too much which locks him into positions and viewpoints that are going to hamper his ability to implement the change he promised. He just didn't need to comment on this or get involved in this and he diminishes the office by doing so.

The saddest part is Obama just went on record being a "more equal" racist.

[kiryan]

Also, its like that Cynthia McKinney deal. Black woman house representative, barged through a check point at the capitol, ignored security yelling at her, when they caught up to her she spun around and hit the guy. Her justificiation, security guards are supposed to know who every legislator is by sight. Thats her justification because they didn't recognize her it was obviously racially motivated and she had the right to assault the officer. Again, police dropped the charges, although I don't think there was an apology.

---

The officer's side of the harvard story. He mentions that he was disappointed that the president got involved in this.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20 ... etail.html

[kiryan]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20 ... etail.html

An article that lays out a case for the officer being wrong as it was his responsibility to "defuse the situation" after determining no laws had been broken.

[Corth]

I think you covered all of the bases.

Cops often do stupid things when they feel like their authority is not being fully respected. Its like that recent case where the NFL player was driving his wife to the hospital where her mother was dying. He ran a red light because they were in a big rush, and the cop pulled them over in front of the hospital. There is video of him trying to explain to the officer that his mother in law was about to die, but the officer just wanted him to shut up and respect his authority - even though the circumstances really justified that he be allowed into the hospital - even if he were to get a ticket later.

On the other hand, this professor is a real asshat. When asked for ID he responded something along the lines of, "Why? Because Im a black American?". He could have just responded to the officer's justified requests in a friendly manner, and there would have been no problem. This isn't a racial issue - its just an angry black man looking to make it into one.

President Obama made a douchebag comment in his press conference. He was not there, and has no basis to conclude that the officer acted stupidly. He is the President of the US and his words carry enormous power. He represents all of us whether we like it or not. Just as in the AIG bonuses case, it seems like he has no problem siccing the mob after some disfavored private individual(s).

[kiryan]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=8153681&page=1

5 page article covers quite a bit... mostly down on the professor and the president.

One section gives even more detail on the incident, after things started going south, a black sergeant and a hispanic patrol officer also responded. Gates would've been arrested in the presence of all 3 officers. A witness that intimates the professor was probably out of line...

Also something that really deserves more attention is that this was CALLED IN by a concerned citizen. They try and distract us by talking about racial profiling, but thats completely unrelated.

Another section deals with the background politics, the phone calls, the mayor gagging the police department and throwing them under the bus to kiss the professor / harvard's ass.

--

http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/?GT1=38001

Oh and I'll throw one more thing against the officer. He was asked for his ID and badge #. Apparently MASS law requires officers to identify themselves if asked. A lot of states if not most have the same law. It doesn't sound like he did identify himself.

FYI, fastest way to piss a cop off is to ask them for their badge #. Been there done that, don't recommend it at all unless you are looking for a fight.

Also apparently disorderly conduct charge was probably inappropriate and could not be sustained. Apparently disorderly conduct can't be applied to anything protected under free speech. Apparently you are free to yell at a cop and he can't just arrest you for being a public disturbance if you aren't in fact in a truly public location (like at a mall or park vs at your house). Good to know.

[Ashiwi]

If the situation was reported truthfully, then I'm pretty sad by the entire situation. Racism is an issue in this country, and nowadays it doesn't matter what color you are, we can all be impacted negatively by it. The officers were in the wrong for how they handled the situation. They shouldn't arrest somebody just for speaking their mind in their own home or on their own property.

As somebody who has railed against the injustice of racism for most of my life, however, I can honstely say that I'm exceedingly disappointed by a Harvard professor who carries such a large chip on his shoulder that he can blow up this issue to the point where it could diminish the magnitude of the very real problems that others experience every day.

Without knowing exactly how the initial interview went, however, it would be very difficult to judge the right and wrong of the situation as a whole.

[Todrael]

I'm racist against jocks.

[Kifle]

I'm racist against jocks.

Don't worry. One day you will be picked for the team, Tod! You will get that letter and show them all!

[teflor the ranger]

A professor whos life and studies revolve around racism can only see racism in everything?

Gasp, surprises and terrors.

This professor is just another tunnel vision idiot that happens to be high profile enough to be on TV. Move along, cows.

[Ragorn]

It's interesting to watch Republicans try to defend positions which I'm shocked to discover someone would be willing to defend.

[Corth]

Seriously? You think the professor was right here? The guy is asked for ID by a cop after someone was spotted breaking into the house - a perfectly legitimate request. And he starts pulling the angry black man routine. Just show the fucking ID and crack a joke about it. Sheesh.

It really is interesting how reasonable people can look at the same set of circumstances and have a completely different take on it.

[kiryan]

After reading that last article that went into more detail about how the "disorderly conduct" law works, I'm starting to favor the professor. Yes he pulled the angry black man you're a racist pig routine, which I find to be reprehensible behavior, but it looks like what the professor did was 100% legal.

If that is true, the police had no right to arrest him even if he was being a complete ass hat. To misquote Gura, being a dick is my god given right as an American. We should be free from an invasive police and government and the way police operate gives them very very broad discretion.

But I think its clear everyone involved in this situation could've done something to have a more positive outcome. The citizen, the officer and the president.

[kiryan]

Wow this is starting to become epicly entertaining which is exactly why Obama should've kept his mouth shut.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8163051&page=1

"I think he would regret if he realized how much of a overall distraction and obsession it would be," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters.

When asked if the president would apologize to the officer, as some police unions have demanded, Gibbs would only say that the president understands that the job police officers do is hard and that he has great respect for them.

Sgt. Dennis O'Connor, the president of the police union that represents Crowley and other superior officers in the Cambridge Police Department, told ABC News that Gates' arrest was "100 percent lawful" and that Obama should apologize to "Sgt. Crowley and all Cambridge police officers."

-- this is flat out ridiculous, again sullying the office of the president. The president does not go out and apologize (unless you're the next president and go out on a international apology tour). Where is the respect for the office of the president. Thanks alot Clinton, GWB and now Obama.

Even actor Bill Cosby weighed in on the debate, telling Boston's WZLX yesterday that he was "shocked" to hear the president's statement.

-- bill cosby is a great man. he's a real hero, a stand up black man who continuously fights against what I'll call "black ghetto culture" and he does it very directly which is why no one invites him to speak anywhere. He rails against black fathers and their conduct in their family lives. He rails against nigga music and everything that entails... There are times when Obama reminds me of him, and then he does something like this.

Some observers questioned whether the president should have so strongly backed Gates, a longtime friend, over the police who arrested him without fully knowing exactly what took place between the professor and Crowley.

"Obama is the president for all American not just black Americans," Brazile said. "He has enough on his plate as commander in chief -- two wars, an economy in the tank -- that he should not necessarily become the healer in chief."

-- obama screwed the pooch on this one. but what else can you expect from someone who only understands what it means to be a leader in an academic sense.

[kiryan]

professor's version of events. Basically he fully complied at first went into the kitchen to get his ID when the officer followed with no permission and refused to give his badge #/name. when he followed the officer onto the porch he immediately turned around and arrested him without warning.

This is going to be an epic he said she said. Cop + witnesses vs one of the most highly respsected black scholars in the USA/world. Someone is on record in the media as lieing now.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/ ... 5908.shtml

[Corth]

After reading that last article that went into more detail about how the "disorderly conduct" law works, I'm starting to favor the professor. Yes he pulled the angry black man you're a racist pig routine, which I find to be reprehensible behavior, but it looks like what the professor did was 100% legal.

If that is true, the police had no right to arrest him even if he was being a complete ass hat. To misquote Gura, being a dick is my god given right as an American. We should be free from an invasive police and government and the way police operate gives them very very broad discretion.

But I think its clear everyone involved in this situation could've done something to have a more positive outcome. The citizen, the officer and the president.

I agree with that. The officer should have just realized the guy is a prick, but a harmless one, and left it alone. It was a mistake to arrest him. But on the other hand, the professor was really asking for it. The cop reasonably asks for ID after he broke into his home - as a homeowner you would hope that such things are investigated, and he goes into angry black man mode. Complete asshole.

And I think Ashiwi makes a great point about how this racial incident contrived by the Harvard professor diminishes the very real issues that people confront on a daily basis to this day.

The biggest mistake of this sad incident was Obama getting involved. He should know better. It makes him look too friendly with radical professors of african american studies. It won't go over well with the white middle class that elected him. He should have just said that he wasn't there, doesn't know what happened, and respectfully declines to comment.

[Sarvis]

He should have just said that he wasn't there, doesn't know what happened, and respectfully declines to comment.

You know, I'm not following this at all and don't really care much... but that strikes me as a very "politician" thing to say. Maybe it was a mistake, but maybe the President being a real person instead of a politics-machine is a good thing?

[kiryan]

I agree with Corth, the biggest problem here is that Obama got involved.

Sarvis. Obama is the president of the united states. he has to sacrifice his ideals to do what is right for the US and for the world. That is what being president means.

I'm reminded of that line from Men In Black, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it"

So what do you do, do you be the leader that is needed to manage the herd, or do you pull from your academic background and your belief that the american people act logically and intelligent and responsibly.

--

You know the funniest thing about this is... 4 and 8 years ago the liberals on this board were up in arms about electing gwb because he was someone you wanted to have a beer with. now here you are, making the same argument because the subject is an socialist intellectual not a religious moron.

[Sarvis]

I agree with Corth, the biggest problem here is that Obama got involved.

Sarvis. Obama is the president of the united states. he has to sacrifice his ideals to do what is right for the US and for the world. That is what being president means.

I'm reminded of that line from Men In Black, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it"

So what do you do, do you be the leader that is needed to manage the herd, or do you pull from your academic background and your belief that the american people act logically and intelligent and responsibly.

--

You know the funniest thing about this is... 4 and 8 years ago the liberals on this board were up in arms about electing gwb because he was someone you wanted to have a beer with. now here you are, making the same argument because the subject is an socialist intellectual not a religious moron.

Huh? We weren't up in arms because he seemed like someone you could have a beer with, we were up in arms because he was a religious moron. If he hadn't been a religious moron, we'd have loved to have a beer with him. Remember Clinton? He won largely because he made himself seem more human and personable. Remember playing the sax? Answering questions about his preferred underwear?

The key difference here is that Clinton and Obama at least seemed competent.

[kiryan]

So the argument is a valid reason when applied to a democratic intellectual, but not a republican who reflects a majority of the people.

[Sarvis]

So the argument is a valid reason when applied to a democratic intellectual, but not a republican who reflects a majority of the people.

Wow, saying Bush reflects a majority of the people is a pretty bad insult to the populace if you ask me...

See, the key here is ability. Bush should not have been President. A man who ran 4 companies into bankruptcy should not be entrusted with our country, no matter how friendly he is.

[kiryan]

look at the statistics on the

76.5% of americans identify as chrisitan
40% of americans identify as republican
60% of americans identify as conservative

Bush was a good reflection of americans.

Obama and his policies come out of that 25% that is liberal democrat. He really isn't reflective of america at all, but its undeniable he was reflective of our desire for change.

[teflor the ranger]

The key difference here is that Clinton and Obama at least seemed competent.

What makes you think that Bush was incompetent? Because, clearly, Iraq is like Vietnam, our freedoms have all been made null and void, the surge never worked, and the religious nuts have taken over.

Can anyone run a scam/scare campaign like the Democrats can :D

[avak]

God, that prof is looking to be a self-righteous dick. Black or not, he is coming across as a complete idiot. He went into the house to get his ID?? Of course the cop followed him...I'm surprised he let him go at all...that is when the perp grabs the gun or makes a break for it. Isn't it standard procedure to never let a suspect out of sight?

I hope the cop sues him in civil court because he'll break that dumbass. Thank god the cop has the backbone to do the right thing...unlike seemingly every single other person around the situation.

You know, cops have a job to do...they aren't there to coddle rich idiots. I think it is so incredibly presumptuous of Gates to think that because he is an educated (ie rich) Harvard professor that he is somehow above the common law. That is the issue here. Gates thought he should get special treatment because a) he is rich and educated and b) he is black.

If Obama was stronger he would come out and say, "you know, I thought about it more and it would appear that this Gates dipshit is actively unraveling the work we've all done to eliminate racism in this country and I think he should be ashamed of himself."

and ps, can we leave bush out of this thread? This is actually pretty interesting without the same tired arguments/counter arguments.

[Sarvis]

look at the statistics on the

76.5% of americans identify as chrisitan
40% of americans identify as republican
60% of americans identify as conservative

Bush was a good reflection of americans.

Obama and his policies come out of that 25% that is liberal democrat. He really isn't reflective of america at all, but its undeniable he was reflective of our desire for change.

What percentage of americans identify as "unable to manage anything effectively?" Or "barely scraped by on the ivy league education his parents paid for?" Or "rich old white guy who inherited a fortune and the privileges that go with it?" How about "was so bad at his job that the entire country wanted change?"

Yes, Obama reflects our desire for change. He reflects that desire because Bush, while appearing to reflect Americans, was actually not at all what we wanted or needed as a leader. Bush got Obama elected.

[Corth]

Sarvis,

I meant Obama made a political mistake. I agree that he was speaking from the heart. However, his feelings on the matter were bad politics.

Avak's post demonstrates the extent of Obama's mistake. Its a case where he had a very good excuse not to comment - not there, didn't see what happened, not something that falls within the executive power of the federal government, etc. But he inserted himself and now many of his supporters are enraged by the incident and his response.

[Sarvis]

Right Corth, I know what you meant. I just think I prefer the occasional reminder that these guys are people, even if it's bad for their career. Plus, it's early enough that it'll blow over by re-election time. :P

[Corth]

You are probably right Sarvis. Around election time the big issue will be the economy.

I have to say, as a matter of damage control Obama got this one right:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32122967/ns ... ethnicity/

[kiryan]

wow the longer this goes on the more pissed off I get.

President Barack Obama on Friday said he made an unfortunate choice of words.

I guess "an unfortunate choice of words" is code ok guys you caught me making racist comments. I mean that was Sotomayer's excuse too right, she made an unfortunate choice of words that hispanic women were better judges than rich white men. Its racism pure and simple. Not an unfortunate choice of words. Oh and let me tack on that racist preacher where he attended church, wright.

I don't think this is going to blow over by election time, as a matter of fact, this is going to be looped when 2010 elections come around and 2012. He went on record as being a "more equal than others" racist, supporting minorities over police doing their job becaues they are minorities. He is putting a racist on the supreme court. This is going to be used against him and every other minority candidate in 2010. White people are officially on notice; we are not as equal as minorities. Minorities need special treatment (rights) and special handouts.

[Jhorr]

I read through this thread and I am impressed by the discourse I have observed. Rarely, there is a dialouge about topics like this on this BBS. This BBS is better for an honest exchange of ideas, rather than a bully pulpit. At the moment, I don't have anything to add, other than bias, so I will refrain.

[teflor the ranger]

"number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly"

"I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department"

[avak]

"Mission Accomplished"

Politicians say stupid shit. Obama made a completely idiotic move and all he can hope for is that Michael Jackson re-dies so this gets out of the daily press.

I think this stands out because Obama is so calculating and precise in his rhetoric. For him to just shoot one off the hip and really eff up is so out of character that it makes you wonder what the hell was happening behind the scenes.

[Corth]

He misjudged popular sentiment. Without being prepared beforehand, with no teleprompter, without being very aware of the circumstances of what happened, his immediate knee-jerk reaction was to be sympathetic to the professor of african american studies and conclude that the police acted stupidly. Without commenting upon whether he was right or wrong, and how it reflects upon him, from a political standpoint it was a mistake. I do think that the damage control has been handled very expertly.

[Kifle]

"Mission Accomplished"

Politicians say stupid shit. Obama made a completely idiotic move and all he can hope for is that Michael Jackson re-dies so this gets out of the daily press.

Or Roethlisberger rapes somebody. Oh, wait.

I think this stands out because Obama is so calculating and precise in his rhetoric. For him to just shoot one off the hip and really eff up is so out of character that it makes you wonder what the hell was happening behind the scenes.

It's not like he's competing in the special olympics or anything :)

I think he's realizing he can't be president and also be a normal person -- just like Bush did eventually.

[kiryan]

article about details of the person who called 911. apparently the 911 call was made by a portugese person who had no idea what race the men were, after prompting by the 911 operator she thought maybe hispanic. What I find really interesting is that the police report stated that the woman had observed what appeared to be two black men. That is shoddy work.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_ ... lar_caller

"Contrary to published reports that a 'white woman' called 911 and reported seeing 'two black men' trying to gain entry into Mr. Gates home, the woman, who has olive colored skin and is of Portuguese descent, told the 911 operator that she observed 'two men' at the home," Murphy's statement read.

Haas said Whalen, after questioning by the dispatcher during the 911 call, speculated that one of the men — who turned out to be Gates and a black car service driver — may have been Hispanic.

"It was very clear that she wasn't sure what the men's race was," Haas said in an interview with The Boston Globe Sunday night.

The 911 tapes have not yet been made public, but Haas has said he expected some version of the tapes to be released within the next few days.

The commissioner acknowledged that in the police report the caller is said to have observed "what appeared to be two black males" on the porch, but he said the report was a summary and not necessarily based on the initial call.

[kiryan]

According to this, Obama was "prepped" on the Gates incident before the press conference where he made his original comments. Try to get over the source here is Rush Limbaugh, the sound bite is Gibbs press secretary.

RUSH: Thank you. Thank you very much. You're very kind. I appreciate that. By the way, time is limited here. But I do want to play a soundbite for you. On Fox News Sunday yesterday, Bret Baier asked Robert Gibbs, "Before Wednesday's news conference, did you prepare the president for a question about the Gates arrest?"

GIBBS: Safe to say we went over a whole lot of topics that we thought might come up and certainly this was a topic that was and has been in the news.

So this wasn't Obama being caught off the cuff about Gates... this was Obama in his full arrogance assuming racism and siding with his friend and racially profiled african americans. I'd also like to point out that this occured shortly after a couple of recent minority events that Obama spoke at including to the NAACP. I think racial issues were very much on his mind and he gambled on this comment and lost. I mean he made an unwise choice of words or whatever the code is for being a minority and being called on being racist.

---

oh here is another gem. Apparently people are researching Gates and they came up with a few "racist" type things including:

RUSH: He said.. Yes, it was when he was getting into Yale. He said he had to sit and be judged by whitey.

[kiryan]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20 ... etail.html

Some random cop commenting on the gates case... he makes some racially charged statements... racist statements and I guess he's on board with our post racial society. He said "It was a poor choice of words" which is the magical I'm not a racist get out of jail free phrase. He is still facing a termiantion hearing though, so maybe those words only work if you are black, hispanic and or the president of the united states.

--

In the e-mail, Barrett writes, "(Gates') first priority should be to get off the phone and comply with police, for if I was the officer he verbally assaulted like a ... jungle monkey, I would have sprayed him in the face with OC deserving of his belligerent non-compliance."

Barrett said he was venting his frustrations about the author and the way they characterized police officers.

...

"The words were being used to characterize behavior not describe anyone," said Barrett. "It was a poor choice of words. I didn't mean it in a racist way. I treat everyone with dignity and respect."

[Kifle]

He said "It was a poor choice of words" which is the magical I'm not a racist get out of jail free phrase. He is still facing a termiantion hearing though, so maybe those words only work if you are black, hispanic and or the president of the united states.

Too bad this strategy wasn't around for Mark Fuhrman. I agree, though. Racism is ok as long as you aren't white these days. When a white man is being racist, he is racist. If a black man is being racist, he's feeling the plight of his people and it's ok. The media thinks it shows pride. Black pride is good, while white pride is bad. Shit, when was the last time you were allowed to feel proud to be white? Hell, even that statement sounds racist; however, if I were to say, "when was the last time you were allowed to feel proud to be black," then people would rally behind it. Paul Mooney can go on rants and raves about crackers and honkies (because he used to be a slave apparently) and sell millions of DVDs, but Michael Richards calls one guy a nigger in a nightclub and his career is over. Black racism makes your career while white racism ends it. Ok, I'm going to end my rant here. This subject really irks the hell out of me.

[kiryan]

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... d=talkbox1

the police officer apparently would pretty much be regarded as an expert student of racial issues in police work.

also are some quotes from the professor on race issues... focusing on appreciating our uniquenesses of race while respecting each other as a man to a man.