Taxing fat people for being fat

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kiryan
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:18 pm

Being Christian isn't about being nice. You can point it out all you want. I don't consider it a zing an insult or anything else, just more evidence of your stereotypical understanding of what christianity is and isnt.

If you are fat and losing weight, then why are you supporting the excuses that people give for not being able to lose weight. Aren't you proof that fat is a choice?

Cooking at home just makes me fat. Good, tasty food = i eat more, a lot more. Also, I can correlate workign to weight gain. When I'm working I gain 40 pounds eating burger king, when I'm not working, I lose about 5 pounds a month eating burger king. Right now I'm trying to decide between drinking less soda, eating smaller portions or working out. Just trying to decide what I want to do, what I can do, and what I will actually do!

Boil ramen and then add an egg and stir it up a good bit to break the egg up into chunks, but not enough to puree it. Its not much of a meal, but its a lot better than just eating ramen and at least you got some nutrition now.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:29 pm

kiryan wrote:Being Christian isn't about being nice. You can point it out all you want. I don't consider it a zing an insult or anything else, just more evidence of your stereotypical understanding of what christianity is and isnt.


I never said anything about being nice, but you're showing me exactly why I don't believe in God every single day. If Mr. Perfect, Compassionate, Omnipotent Sky Wizard is talking to you every day and saying you should advocate people actively harming themselves so they can remain more attractive to a specific modern cultural ideal then I know I never want to have anything to do with him, you or your people.

If you are fat and losing weight, then why are you supporting the excuses that people give for not being able to lose weight. Aren't you proof that fat is a choice?


Because I know how tough it is, and I can understand why people might not be able to manage it in circumstances worse than mine.

The critical point for me was living with my mother, where I gained back all the weight I had lost and then some. Once I moved out, I started losing the weight again.


Boil ramen and then add an egg and stir it up a good bit to break the egg up into chunks, but not enough to puree it. Its not much of a meal, but its a lot better than just eating ramen and at least you got some nutrition now.


The ramen thing was college, I don't touch the stuff these days.

Though that summer wasn't as bad as the one where I only had $5/wk for groceries.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Todrael » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:45 pm

Sarvis, you'll find that one of primary differences between a liberal and a conservative revolves around the word "deserve". Liberals tend to believe that humans deserve things simply for being human and existing, whereas conservatives believe that people must earn things to deserve them.

Kiryan et al believe that people literally do not deserve to be healthy or well cared for unless they put in the required number of hours and dollars to earn it, regardless of the fact that the effort required is highly variable between different people and situations. This is also shown in their desire to ensure people who do the wrong thing "get what they deserve".

As far as I can tell, the argument around "deserve" is irreconcilable, as it involves two completely different fundamental world views, but it infests virtually every argument here on the forum and on our national stage.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Kifle » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:52 pm

kiryan wrote:Being Christian isn't about being nice.


I lol'd hard and long about this one.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Desirsar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:09 am

amena wolfsnarl wrote:And on a side note BMI is a crock of shit, i know it was mentioned in here earlier, Evander holyfield in his prime was classified as morbidly obese on the Body Mass Index. according to the BMI im supposed to weigh 186 at 6'0" I weigh 236 atm I would have to chop off a leg to weigh that much, i have some weight to lose still but at the most i figure i would be lucky to drop to 200, I'm just not built to be a scrawny twig boy.


Actually, I just checked myself, I'm barely under the obese classification. I think any doctors or trainers I visit won't agree with that when they watch me play sports for six hours straight, or the speed at which I can sprint, or my maximum weight on most machines or free weight exercises, or... In fact, the high end of weight for my height is 180... wow, no wonder people think pro wrestlers look big. If everyone is supposed to have trouble lifting a 16 pound bowling ball, then I guess that's a fair assessment.

BMI is a reliable indicator of total body fat, which is related to the risk of disease and death. The score is valid for both men and women but it does have some limits. The limits are:

* It may overestimate body fat in athletes and others who have a muscular build.
* It may underestimate body fat in older persons and others who have lost muscle mass.
While the formula for BMI dates to the 19th century, the term "body mass index" for the ratio and its popularity date to a 1972 paper by Ancel Keys, which found the BMI to be the best proxy for body fat percentage among ratios of weight and height; the interest in measuring body fat being due to obesity becoming a discernible issue in prosperous Western societies. BMI was explicitly cited by Keys as being appropriate for population studies, and inappropriate for individual diagnosis. Nevertheless, due to its simplicity, it came to be widely used for individual diagnosis, despite its inappropriateness.


So, yeah, use percentage of body fat of weight instead, then. Then you have the problem of trying to measure this without equipment for it (I assume most people do not.)

I was going to post more than this, but I have discovered that my soccer socks do not smell too bad to use, and I am running away to the rec center to see if I can get in 90 minutes at the indoor fields. I stand by my assertion that everyone would do better with a workout partner or trainer and went to the weight room six times a week and just killed the place. :)
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:22 pm

Why do you laugh Kifle?

Sarvis, not every position I take is based on Christian ideals. Obeying the commandments is required, but Christian most ideals are just good policy and show an understanding and committment through practice of those principles. God isn't involved in taxes, capitalism or communism. He didn't sign off on the boston tea party or the war for independence. Doesn't care about your tax rate or whether you live under capitalism or socialism. Literally these things are not important and distract Christians from the point of their lives.

There is not a biblical answer for every mundane choice in life. God is not requiring me to debate obesity. Aside from the commandment against gluttony and a principle to take care of your body, he has no orders requiring you to be thin. I'm not sure how you arrived at a position that God demands that you harm your body to uphold a cultural ideal... but its wrong. If we were all 30 pounds overweight no big deal.

Your stereotypical beliefs about what Christianity are wrong again. Your rejection of God and Christianity seems to be based on bad assumptions so I suggest you get some better understanding and re-evaluate. I highly encourage you to go to church, read the Bible and pray.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:35 pm

kiryan wrote:I'm not sure how you arrived at a position that God demands that you harm your body to uphold a cultural ideal...


I didn't say God did, I said you, a Christian, did. Because you just said that a couple posts ago.

See, you are the reflection of God's will. How you behave is largely due to His influence and the influence of His (and the Church's) teachings. Time and again I see people who identify themselves as Christian (or many other religions) behave in some reprehensible fashion.

To put this in perspective, Islam does not teach people to bomb buildings... but when Islamic people bomb buildings it reflects badly on the religion and the God behind it.

ESPECIALLY when the person exhibiting the reprehensible behavior ALSO claims that God speaks to him directly.

This has nothing to do with my understanding of Christianity, and everything to do with my observations of how Christians behave.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:39 pm

"I never said anything about being nice, but you're showing me exactly why I don't believe in God every single day. If Mr. Perfect, Compassionate, Omnipotent Sky Wizard is talking to you every day and saying you should advocate people actively harming themselves so they can remain more attractive to a specific modern cultural ideal then I know I never want to have anything to do with him, you or your people."

I call BS.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:42 pm

kiryan wrote:"I never said anything about being nice, but you're showing me exactly why I don't believe in God every single day. If Mr. Perfect, Compassionate, Omnipotent Sky Wizard is talking to you every day and saying you should advocate people actively harming themselves so they can remain more attractive to a specific modern cultural ideal then I know I never want to have anything to do with him, you or your people."

I call BS.


BS on what? The fact that you've claimed God speaks to you? The fact that you claimed Ash should eat less than 1200 calories a day to lose weight?

I just said you are the reflection of God, here. I don't know or care what Christianity or the church says, I care what it's people do. You advocated Ash harm herself and you claim God speaks to you.

Maybe you need to go have a nice little chat with him about whether or not you should be "nice."
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:52 pm

Maybe you should go correct your willful ignorance instead of just rejecting something you don't understand.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:55 pm

I understand perfectly. I advocated that Ashiwi harm herself to lose weight. You claim God speaks to you.

What am I not understanding here? God has taught you that advocating harm is good, apparently.

Either that or you don't listen, but that's usually what you scream at me so that doesn't seem likely.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Kifle » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:05 pm

kiryan wrote:Why do you laugh Kifle?


I'm going to try not to sound like I'm some kind of religious expert, or even close to it; however, if there are two things in this world I've studied and have learned better than your average person, it would be philosophy and religion. I've had to sit through countless boring classes, reading book upon book dealing with the subject, and write long-winded papers regarding the subject of Christianity -- from it's history to it's tenets. If there is one thing that is universal in the religion, starting from the New Testament, it is kindness (being nice). It is the foundation of Christianity. Kindness is the essential component of Christianity. Everything else that is taught in the testament is derivative of this -- charity, love, non-judgment, forgiveness, etc. So, to say "being Christian isn't about being nice," is like saying, "being bald isn't about having no hair," or "being a circle isn't about being round." You're stripping the thing of its necessary quality to be what it is -- its essence. So, to me, that is just hilarious. Like I've said many times, if religion makes you a better person, I fully support as much as you want to put in to it, and I fully support your beliefs, but when those beliefs begin to be perverted, used to justify things it was never meant to justify, or support stances that can not be supported, then religion has become a hindrance and a weapon. And I think it is sad, sometimes, in your case, in that you use the religion as a weapon rather than what it was originally created to be. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're an evil man, or even bad for that matter, but I do honestly think you need to re-evaluate your beliefs by speaking to another minister, praying, or however it is you think you can get an honest appraisal of your current beliefs.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Ashiwi » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:53 pm

Sarvis wrote:I understand perfectly. I advocated that Ashiwi harm herself to lose weight.


I mean really ... can you please do some research before you open mouth/insert foot? Another instance of you going off on something you obviously know nothing about.

http://professional.diabetes.org/UserFi ... eview7.pdf

Let me just point out that this is from the American Diabetic Association, NOT a quack diet fad website, a group that can probably claim to know just a tad more than you do about the subject. Also, this document doesn't really address issues for those who have compromised metabolic systems outside of your standard diabetic condtions.

Diet. Initially, reducing caloric intake is
the primary mechanism for weight loss,8
although increasing energy expenditure
by becoming more physically active is
necessary for maintaining weight loss. A
moderate decrease in caloric intake (i.e.,
500–1,000 kcal/day) will result in a slow
but progressive weight loss (1–2
pounds/ week). It is recommended that
weight loss diets supply at least
1,000–1,200 kcal/day for women and
1,200–1,600 kcal/day for men.8,27 Verylow-
calorie diets, which provide fewer
than 800 kcal/day, are not routinely
recommended because they require
special supervision and monitoring.4,8 In
addition, such diets do not result in
greater weight loss at 1 year and have
been associated with increased health
risks.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Mitharx » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:01 pm

Kifle, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I've also studied philosophy and religion a fair amount (although probably no where near as much as you) and I've observed that Christianity, like most religion, is about doing what ever you want and then pretending like the nebulous source material supports your actions and beliefs. I think you're referring to what the character known as Jesus intended the religion to be and he's way dead. So why listen to him?

Disclaimer:
This is some what tongue-in-cheek so if it offends you (you in the larger sense - not Kifle specifically) or you feel the need to defend yourself or start a conversation based on this comment, please rest assured that this was not directed at you and I believe you have very sincere beliefs that are thought out and based on a thorough education on the subject at hand and I did not, in any way, have you in mind when I wrote this.

Thanks.

Edited for clarity... although not complete clarity
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:21 pm

Apparently Rush Limbaugh is doing a pretty good job of losing weight following something similar to the Kiryan strategy, though not quite down to 1200 calories.

What gets me is perspective, and his lack of it. Apparently some pundits/media are discussing the diet and saying it may not be a great diet and could be unsafe. His reaction:

"Either we shouldn't lose weight or we should, and when we do it -- "

So because they say this diet may not be safe, they are saying you shouldn't lose weight?

More:

"Here they are targeting obesity as one of the main things we've gotta fix in order to bring down health care costs, and then they trash virtually every way people come up with of losing weight."

It's a very black & white view of things, isn't it?

Will be interesting to see how this goes. He's clearly convinced that he's right and everyone else is wrong. Hopefully someone is archiving this so when he gains all the weight back next year he can't just redact his comments.

Oh, almost forgot the link: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/ ... guest.html
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:24 pm

Ashiwi wrote:
Sarvis wrote:I understand perfectly. I advocated that Ashiwi harm herself to lose weight.


I mean really ... can you please do some research before you open mouth/insert foot? Another instance of you going off on something you obviously know nothing about.


Oh really? You're going to fucking attack me again? Did you actually read or understand what we're talking about, or just see Sarvis at the top of the post again? I'm SO sorry if I was off by 200 calories because I was thinking of the men's recommendations instead of the womens, however the article you just posted says exactly what I was saying.

Let me just point out that this is from the American Diabetic Association, NOT a quack diet fad website, a group that can probably claim to know just a tad more than you do about the subject. Also, this document doesn't really address issues for those who have compromised metabolic systems outside of your standard diabetic condtions.

Diet. Initially, reducing caloric intake is
the primary mechanism for weight loss,8
although increasing energy expenditure
by becoming more physically active is
necessary for maintaining weight loss. A
moderate decrease in caloric intake (i.e.,
500–1,000 kcal/day) will result in a slow
but progressive weight loss (1–2
pounds/ week). It is recommended that
weight loss diets supply at least
1,000–1,200 kcal/day for women and
1,200–1,600 kcal/day for men.8,27 Verylow-
calorie diets, which provide fewer
than 800 kcal/day, are not routinely
recommended because they require
special supervision and monitoring.4,8 In
addition, such diets do not result in
greater weight loss at 1 year and have
been associated with increased health
risks.


Seriously Ash, I don't know where or when I pissed you off... but you've clearly got an axe to grind. Drop it.

Next time I'll let Kiryan be condescending to you and recommend something dangerous.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:01 pm

Kifle.

Your belief in God and Jesus paying for your sins and developing a personal relationship with God/Christ is the core of Christianity. Once you become a Christian, your primary job is to spread the gospel and develop your relationship with God through studying the Bible and Prayer. That is what Christianity is about.

Now the natural extension of all that is to become more Christ like... to love your neighbor as yourself. But that is not and never will be the real point of Christianity, just what the ignorant masses understand (including many Christians). I went to a Christian college, and I'm not shy in church either. I'm pretty sure you are the one who needs to develop a better understanding of Christianity despite your intellectual pursuits.

Its hard maybe impossible to understand the true nature of Christianity from an intellectual point of view... through researching the bible and word studies. We recognize a significant difference between an intellectual understanding of Christianity and a deeper faith based understanding. Both are beneficial, but having only one part (especially the intellectual part) puts you at serious risk of missing everything. Part of the development of a faith based understanding is that you develop a deeper relationship with Christ / God and as such you understand his nature better and thereby understand little things like why "do not judge" does not mean don't tell people they are wrong or call them asshats or why "don't cause your brother to stumble" does not mean tip toe around issues as not to offend them.

You can take the scriptures and twist them through language and be deceived by the devil, but its not valid despite the words technically meaning what you may want to argue. Its a communication barrier that you can only over come as you understand the nature of the speaker. When I was living in Japan I learned that communication barrier does not equal not being able to speak the same language. I learned how to speak Japanese, but although we were speaking the same language, I had no idea what she was saying, I had no idea how to relate to her. I only understood this after watching a friend of mine who was really fluent in Japanese having lived there for 9 years go through the issues with his wife.

You have to know this is true by the evidence. Either devout, knowledgable Christians are all a bunch of liars despite believing truth to be very central to their ideology over a couple thousand years... or they understand something you don't despite all your intellectual review. Put your faith in something other than yourself for once and you may develop a deeper understanding of God, the Bible and Christians. You can't get it all by memorizing the Bible and writing papers. You have to get to know the writer.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Todrael » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:14 am

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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Kifle » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:45 am

kiryan wrote:Kifle.

Your belief in God and Jesus paying for your sins and developing a personal relationship with God/Christ is the core of Christianity. Once you become a Christian, your primary job is to spread the gospel and develop your relationship with God through studying the Bible and Prayer. That is what Christianity is about.

Now the natural extension of all that is to become more Christ like... to love your neighbor as yourself. But that is not and never will be the real point of Christianity, just what the ignorant masses understand (including many Christians). I went to a Christian college, and I'm not shy in church either. I'm pretty sure you are the one who needs to develop a better understanding of Christianity despite your intellectual pursuits.


Just a quick reply before I go off to work... This is what the religion was turned into centuries after Christ died, and after many inclusions, removals, rewrites, and outright refusal to include certain documents to the bible at the many councils and other commands at the behest of whoever was ruling the christian nation at the time. Read the bible, read some history, and my intellectual pursuits will look a lot closer to the mark than the deluded version that you practice. I'm just saying, you do not practice Christianity -- you practice a bastardized version of an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot of Catholicism. At some point, you can no longer reject history and common sense. It's like saying you've read Les Miserables when you've only watched the last movie they made about the book -- which didn't even include the ending.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:46 am

Sarvis, you've been vehemently jumping all over Kirayn throughout this thread for multiple issues, but you kept going on and on about how he was advocating ME doing something harmful to myself. The "harmful" thing was an ADA supported diet, which I practice on a regular basis.

You grind your axe against everybody. You look for arguments and go off on things you know absolutely nothing about. If somebody said they were wearing a white tshirt, you'd argue that they weren't wearing white, they were wearing all the colors of the spectrum and before the argument was done you'd be insulting something personal about them you don't like, like their religion. For once just admit you didn't bother doing the research before you opened your mouth.

I'm pretty sure you won't, because you're one of the most hardheaded people I've ever met, and you seem to be completely incapable of choosing your battles, taking advice, or admitting that maybe you screwed up and went too far.

In person, I'd probably like you ... until you asked me if you should wear the red or green shirt, because if I said "red," you would choose the green shirt, pick a fight over the fact that I suggested the red shirt, grind your point into the ground, insult my beliefs that the red shirt fits your complexion better and the cut is more flattering to you, compare me to a communist because I chose the red shirt, and spend the rest of the night stating loudly how much better in all ways the color green is for shirts than the color red and supporting it with arguments that have nothing to do with the shade of the color or the cut of the shirt, but lots to do with some fictional character talking about the some woman he banged in the nightclub bathroom in some pick-up artist book you read.

Then the next day you'd ask if you should wear the blue or yellow shirt.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:13 am

Ashiwi wrote:Sarvis, you've been vehemently jumping all over Kirayn throughout this thread for multiple issues,


Yes, you are right. He's been pissing me off lately, and I specifically didn't reply to his last post because I realized I was, at the very least, being no better than him in attempting to force my beliefs onto him.

but you kept going on and on about how he was advocating ME doing something harmful to myself. The "harmful" thing was an ADA supported diet, which I practice on a regular basis.


Again, and you're only proving you don't get past my name by making me repeat this, I used the men's number instead of the womens by mistake. It was an accident.

HOWEVER, let's look at what Kiryan said:

"It is absolutely true that your body will cannibalize muscle and other energy sources to meet urgent needs"

Going by our (mistaken) numbers Kiryan said it would be ok if you ate so few calories that your body cannibalized your muscles and other organs to make up the calorie deficit.

That is NOT supported by the ADA, even if the specific (and I repeat it was a mistake) number of 1200 calories is. Do you honestly think, after Kiryan said it would be ok for your body to cannibalize itself, that he wouldn't have recommended the 800 calorie diet if you failed to lose weight at 1200?


You grind your axe against everybody. You look for arguments and go off on things you know absolutely nothing about.


No, I don't. Where did I go into some rant against Pril, Dugmaren or Tod? Oh right, I didn't because they didn't come off as assholes advocating people eat a dangerously low amount of calories or act like anyone who's fat is lazy and worthless. The really funny thing here is you gave them all a speech about being condescending, and then when Kiryan continues to do so you take his side. Because it's me. Because you think I have an axe to grind.

And I fail how getting a single number wrong means I know "absolutely nothing" about dieting and weight loss. I made recommendations to help you, for instance, and you confirmed that it was the same advice you had heard previously from doctors. That alone should tell you I know SOMETHING about this shit. But no, you see "Sarvis" and think "ignorant" because you don't like me.

If somebody said they were wearing a white tshirt, you'd argue that they weren't wearing white, they were wearing all the colors of the spectrum and before the argument was done you'd be insulting something personal about them you don't like, like their religion. For once just admit you didn't bother doing the research before you opened your mouth.


I'd admit that if that were the case. Need I find you a thread where I did so? Corth proved me wrong a few days ago, I admitted it and moved on. You are denouncing me over a single wrong number, and for fuck's sake I was just at the high end of the calorie range instead of the low end, when Kiryan wants your body to cannibalize your muscles so you lose weight.

Insulting? Yes, I suppose I was. I try not to normally, but when someone touts themselves as a Christian while advocating harm to others I get a little touchy. I suppose you're blind to the number of times Kiryan has called me ignorant, though? Or to the fact that every time you reply to me you call me ignorant as well?

Nah, sure THAT never crossed your mind. What's a little hypocrisy on the internet, after all?

I'm pretty sure you won't, because you're one of the most hardheaded people I've ever met, and you seem to be completely incapable of choosing your battles, taking advice, or admitting that maybe you screwed up and went too far.


Choosing battles? Don't worry, I won't make the mistake of defending you again
Taking advice? When I get advice that actually pertains to my question I take it. See: joining meetup.com after people here advised me to do so. (Again you show yourself as being petty for not taking your specific advice, which would likely have left me home playing Zelda on Friday nights instead of out impressing bartenders)
admitting I screwed up? Again, do I need to get you the link to threads where I admit my mistake? Again you show yourself as blinded by your resentment of me
Too far? You're right, I did go too far with Kiryan. He pissed me off and I should have stepped back sooner.

See how that works, Ash? When someone is right I admit it.

People are not wrong just because "Sarvis" appears at the top of the post, though.

In person, I'd probably like you ... until you asked me if you should wear the red or green shirt, because if I said "red," you would choose the green shirt, pick a fight over the fact that I suggested the red shirt, grind your point into the ground, insult my beliefs that the red shirt fits your complexion better and the cut is more flattering to you,


Nice to make assumptions, isn't it? I mean, you're wrong... but it's fun right?


compare me to a communist because I chose the red shirt,


Why would I do that? I'm a Liberal remember, I'm practically a commie myself! ;)

and spend the rest of the night stating loudly how much better in all ways the color green is for shirts than the color red and supporting it with arguments that have nothing to do with the shade of the color or the cut of the shirt, but lots to do with some fictional character talking about the some woman he banged in the nightclub bathroom in some pick-up artist book you read.

Then the next day you'd ask if you should wear the blue or yellow shirt.


I don't own a yellow shirt, sorry.

Should I bitch at you for not doing the slightest bit of research, now?
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:44 am

Okay, you've got me laughing and throwing up my hands again. Dude, you are a masterpiece.

And if you did admit you were wrong previously, I apologize. I just don't think I've ever seen it.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:11 am

Ashiwi wrote:Okay, you've got me laughing and throwing up my hands again. Dude, you are a masterpiece.


I hope you mean that in a good way..

And if you did admit you were wrong previously, I apologize. I just don't think I've ever seen it.


Not my fault if everyone else is right so very rarely. :P

Here you go:


Sarvis wrote:You're right, the ban was on federal funding. My bad... - viewtopic.php?f=43&t=21540
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Corth » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:08 am

I feel like I should get some sort of award.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Dugmaren » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:16 am

I could load a bottomless soda machine in the room of choice for you...
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Pril » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:43 am

Dugmaren wrote:I could load a bottomless soda machine in the room of choice for you...


Can it have Soda and Buckets of Crisco?

Oh and you'll have to give him a spoon.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:25 pm

Corth wrote:I feel like I should get some sort of award.


I know you wouldn't be familiar with this, but being right is it's own reward. :P
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Corth » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:47 pm

Imagine I actually used the word 'reward' instead of 'award' - we'd be arguing about the benefits of greed and Mitharx would fall asleep, and somewhere, somehow, a baby kitten would die. :)

Wait, thats what happens when you jer.. err never mind!
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Botef » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:04 pm

<word on body> a flying pig tramp stamp
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Desirsar » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:31 pm

Ashiwi wrote:I mean really ... can you please do some research before you open mouth/insert foot? Another instance of you going off on something you obviously know nothing about.

http://professional.diabetes.org/UserFi ... eview7.pdf

Let me just point out that this is from the American Diabetic Association, NOT a quack diet fad website, a group that can probably claim to know just a tad more than you do about the subject. Also, this document doesn't really address issues for those who have compromised metabolic systems outside of your standard diabetic condtions.


I probably shouldn't have deleted the quote with their numbers, but... oof. The guides I've read and numbers I've crunched for myself have all said I'd suffer pretty much every malnutrition side effect if I go below 2500 calories per day. (For the record, at my average activity level for my height, weight, and age, I have to eat 3900 to simply maintain my weight. I shudder to imagine how expensive it'd be if I were all the way up to the 245 pounds and next to no body fat size I'd want for an optimal pro wrestling build.)

I don't think I've ever met a doctor or trainer who didn't say that 2000 should be used as a minimum unless dieting specifically with an exercise program, and then 1500 as a minimum, no matter the age, gender, or size of the person. (Yes, this includes 95 pound 4'11 females of any age over 18...) In the case of someone who would gain weight at the minimum intake, they have only one option - which should be the first option attempted in any instance - increase activity to match intake. When I say I don't stick to my diet plan because it's inconvenient, it doesn't mean I don't also go train in soccer or other sports extra hours to make up for it. (For which I feed my potential addiction to acetaminophen and ibuprofen. I should probably start adding naproxen to that list soon, spread out the organ damage a little more. :) )
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:38 pm

Desirsar wrote:(For which I feed my potential addiction to acetaminophen and ibuprofen. I should probably start adding naproxen to that list soon, spread out the organ damage a little more. :) )


You'll love it when those kidney stones come bite you in the ass *shudder*
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:58 pm

amena wolfsnarl wrote:
Desirsar wrote:(For which I feed my potential addiction to acetaminophen and ibuprofen. I should probably start adding naproxen to that list soon, spread out the organ damage a little more. :) )


You'll love it when those kidney stones come bite you in the ass *shudder*


I don't think it's his ass he needs to worry about. ;)

Also, remind me to drink more water and less soda so I don't have to find out one day...
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:50 pm

Sarvis wrote:
amena wolfsnarl wrote:
Desirsar wrote:(For which I feed my potential addiction to acetaminophen and ibuprofen. I should probably start adding naproxen to that list soon, spread out the organ damage a little more. :) )


You'll love it when those kidney stones come bite you in the ass *shudder*


I don't think it's his ass he needs to worry about. ;)

Also, remind me to drink more water and less soda so I don't have to find out one day...



It was the only time that ive been to the hospital been rushed right in and given as much painkillers as i wanted.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:44 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32306655/ns ... ealth_care

basically its on the role of personal responsibility in healthcare. The latter half of the article discusses how sometimes its not so easy to just saying be more responsible.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Pril » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:28 pm

The best of WTF statments of '06

--------------------------------------------------------

Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

Danila group-says 'afk, koala bear trying to mount my car'
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:31 pm




Image

Hmm...

Image

I knew it! Peter Pepper was behind this ALL ALONG!
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:43 pm

making these tonight!
Attachments
i2dw5nf19m3f2alzj856fiaCo1_500[1].jpg
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Desirsar » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:21 am

Digging this post up again...

Saw an article about a food tax proposal in New Zealand. Don't tax the fat on people, tax the fat in food! It was something about a saturated fat content level tax for whole cream or any foods that used things like that. Brilliant, I say - it artificially makes unhealthy foods more expensive than the healthy choices. Sure, it'll raise some grocery bills in the short term, but when the average consumer changes their spending habits for these things, the market will go back to equilibrium, and an average trip to the grocery store will go back to costing the same number of hours of labor at your job.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:14 pm

Whether you are fat or not should be none of the govenrment's business. It should be a PERSONAL decision. Of course, that can't happen because we are making government responsible for it. If the government is going to pay for it, it has to be regulated.

If I decide that all I want to do in life is gorge myself on delicious foods knowing that I'll die 30 years sooner, why can't I do that? Why should I have to pay extra to do it? When does it stop? Smoking used to be legal and a matter of choice... its really neither today. Is it eating bacon tomorrow? Extreme mountain biking next year? These are all factors that will put you at risk for "bad health". Who decides? The majority? We are supposed to be free from the tyranny of the majority.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Desirsar » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:26 am

Except that the majority buy crap food rather than healthy food. This increases the price of shelf space for the less popular healthier foods. Let me sum it up in a mind blowing quote for you - "The decisions of the unhealthy majority adversely affect the ability of those who wish to eat healthy to do so." There's your tyranny of the majority. Adjust the tax every six months or more often, then, until a balance is found. Some government agency researches the food expenditures of average families of four who, according to some panel of doctors and experts that work in this agency, are eating healthy or eating unhealthy foods.

Of course, the lobby for any particular food manufacturing industry will bribe the crap out of this agency to either put a competitor's food or ingredient on the list while keeping their own off, so I suppose this system doesn't work that well.

More subsidies for farmers whose crops are sold relatively whole and unprocessed, then?
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Ambar » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:11 pm

I know when I go on rants and buy healthy foods and cut out junk food and fast foods my costs about equal out, even when shopping at my favorite organic grocery store .. when I buy both healthier foods and still eat junk it does cost more. Fast food is expensive for a reason IMO .. Seems like it already gets taxed at 11 and 12%. At Wendy's I can get a small chicken sandwich meal for 5.49$, plus tax .. I can make a meal for myself a heck of a lot cheaper that is more filling, and better for me. Fast food exists for lazy fat people like the majority of America :)

Maybe its just different here tho :)

This quote was taken from an article on healthy people who want to tax the overweight majority by raising healthcare premiums .. http://fitnesswatch.blogspot.com/2009/08/majority-of-healthy-weight-americans.html .. it is just some random article off of a google search, not anything I normally read or subscribe to.

The study also revealed that the majority of adults (62%) in the U.S. are classified as overweight according to the government standard, with 44% who are classified as “moderately overweight” and 18% who are classified as “severely overweight.”
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby kiryan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:15 pm

Wow, thats complete insanity. You want government to regulate and potentially subsidize food such that healthy food is at least an equal choice to unhealthy food in terms of price and access? Don't you think that this is way too much interference in our personal lives and markets? Or is it ok to herd people by manipulating the system as long as "its good for them"?

And I disagree with your idea that unhealthy food is about cheap. Unhealthy food is about how you spend your time. You choose to spend more time wathcing TV, playing video games or 2 working parents rather than cooking a healthy meal. I find that eating healthy costs the same as eating unhealthy, but I have a lot more time (and no dishes).

Now if you want to compare milk to hormone free milk to organic milk to soy milk... we'll is that really healthy vs unhealthy? Isn't it more like premium healthy vs good healthy?
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:32 pm

Ambar wrote: At Wendy's I can get a small chicken sandwich meal for 5.49$, plus tax .. I can make a meal for myself a heck of a lot cheaper that is more filling, and better for me.
[/quote]

Dollar menu, Ambar. I can get a double cheeseburger for $1 at McDonald's.

EDIT: Not to mention the time it takes to actually cook anything, if you're one of the millions working multiple jobs just to get by.
Last edited by Sarvis on Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Botef » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:34 pm

KFC Double Down, guaranteed double bypass by the time your 30 or your next sandwich is free.

Its good for me cause Atkin's says so.
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:55 pm

Botef wrote:KFC Double Down, guaranteed double bypass by the time your 30 or your next sandwich is free.

Its good for me cause Atkin's says so.
Image

I think my arteries just hardened looking at that thing
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Ambar » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:49 pm

Dollar menu, Ambar. I can get a double cheeseburger for $1 at McDonald's.


I doubt a larger person would eat just one, and what about the drink and fries? Ok yeah you can get two for cheaper but what I SAID (meant) was it costs roguhly the same to buy healthier foods that tase better and are better for you. I never once said anything about time preparing it, but yes it is quicker to go to the drivethru
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Re: Taxing fat people for being fat

Postby Sarvis » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:59 pm

Ambar wrote:
Dollar menu, Ambar. I can get a double cheeseburger for $1 at McDonald's.


I doubt a larger person would eat just one, and what about the drink and fries? Ok yeah you can get two for cheaper but what I SAID (meant) was it costs roguhly the same to buy healthier foods that tase better and are better for you. I never once said anything about time preparing it, but yes it is quicker to go to the drivethru


I never ate more than 2 cheeseburgers when I went to McDonald's, actually. (Even back in the days when I ate there a LOT because when you're driving home from a 12 hour day at 2am and get hungry there's not much else open.)

Also the "taste better" part varies wildly depending on who's doing the cooking. I've managed to make something that tastes better than fast food maybe 2 or three times in the last couple years. I pretty much shoot for "edible" at this point. :P However, as I think I've noted before, my grocery bill went up a little since I started trying to actually make my meals and eat healthier. Frozen dinners don't go bad, real food does.
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