Children school diets?

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Dalar
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Children school diets?

Postby Dalar » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:28 pm

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/20 ... rition.php

​While some schools around town go to great lengths to provide healthy options for students, most cafeterias reside outside the bounds of culinary decency: processed meats, stale breads, cups of colorless fruit. It's not that anyone wants our fine city's future to dine on lard and green turkey dogs; it's that healthy food is expensive. And let's be honest: Some students just aren't worth it.

Right? Isn't that the message we're sending to Generation2K? According to the HISD Connect Web site, "almost 80 percent of HISD students come from economically disadvantaged households, in which regular, nutritious meals are sometimes not available." These students receive free or reduced-price lunches, so now their daily intake could include nutritional powerhouses like this:


​These meals tell students that we're willing to sustain their lives, but we're not willing to make them productive. We scream, stomp, and moan that our kids don't pay attention, that they're hyperactive, that they fall asleep in class -- yet this food is malaise incarnate, sending the message that healthy eating habits are unimportant and that we don't care whether or not they have enough energy to learn. It's no wonder Houston ranks 83rd on the Forbes list of the 100 most educated cities in America.

There's no one out there who's opposed to serving healthier, more substantial lunches in schools. But where do we get the money? And when we find a stockpile of extra education money lying around, would we put it towards food? It seems unlikely. Until we do, we'll continue to give our students what we always have: nachos, hot dogs, and Type 2 Diabetes.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby avak » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:08 am

Healthy food is not expensive. It just doesn't have a lobby of greedy salesmen and spindoctors behind it. The most recent farm bill was $288 billion. That gets paid by all of us.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:14 am

I agree with avak, however the issue is not as muh cost as it is logistics (which does drives price indirectly). A hot dog in a package is probably good for a couple of years, a fresh salad a week. I remember getting curdled milk at school when I was a kid on occasion because someone didn't handle it well. I think the milk guy at the convenience store I ran with my parents said every 15 minutes milk is stored at room temperature takes 1 day off the expiration date.

"These meals tell students that we're willing to sustain their lives, but we're not willing to make them productive. We scream, stomp, and moan that our kids don't pay attention, that they're hyperactive, that they fall asleep in class -- yet this food is malaise incarnate, sending the message that healthy eating habits are unimportant and that we don't care whether or not they have enough energy to learn"

what a bunch of crap. kids don't pay attenton and fall asleep in class because they are allowed to. Because their parents both work and don't give a shit about their education, because their teachers have been fed a bunch of shit about healthy food. My kid just started a new school in a new town. We had a conference because I was pretty pissed off that my 8 year old was doing single digit addition and subtraction for homework 8 weeks after school started.

During the conference, they brought up a self survey on what Bryce thought would help him do better at school. Snacks, having a special area to work, more time, less distractions ect... a bunch of stupid bullshit. I asked them if they were serious, and they were. I assign Bryce an additional 2 hours of homework every night, an additonal 6-8 hours on days he doesn't go to school except sunday. Not one of those "reasons" has anything to do with his ability to study... but sure, if you want to ask the kid what he wants... and then give him a bunch of accomodations you're going to get all sorts of reasons why he can't buck up. You guys are pussyifying our children with your stupid excuses.

Also, when I was a kid, I skipped lunch because I wouldn't eat their crap. Starting in 9th grade, I consumed at least 64 ounces of mountain dew every day and had a cinamon roll or vanilla wafers for "breakfast" once or twice a week.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Sarvis » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:32 am

kiryan wrote:
Also, when I was a kid, I skipped lunch because I wouldn't eat their crap. Starting in 9th grade, I consumed at least 64 ounces of mountain dew every day and had a cinamon roll or vanilla wafers for "breakfast" once or twice a week.


This explains a whole lot.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:16 pm

What does kiryan think about reduced price lunches for underpriviledged kids? Isn't that socialism, or like, encouraging poverty or the failure of personal responsibility or something?
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:52 pm

When their parents are out there buying alcohol and cigarettes? I think its ridiculous, but I can probably live with it. My gripe is that you are enabling poor parenting with programs like these.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:58 pm

I knew you'd find a way to shit on subsidized lunches somehow.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:43 pm

Ragorn, whose job is it to feed children?

No, I'm sorry thats a good guess, but the correct answer is not the parents, its the government.

Pure idiocy.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Sarvis » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:49 pm

kiryan wrote:Ragorn, whose job is it to feed children?

No, I'm sorry thats a good guess, but the correct answer is not the parents, its the government.

Pure idiocy.


During the hours the government is responsible for their care? Yes, the government.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:58 pm

kiryan wrote:Ragorn, whose job is it to feed children?

No, I'm sorry thats a good guess, but the correct answer is not the parents, its the government.

Pure idiocy.

Do your children ever purchase school lunches? If so, why do you permit the government to feed them?

Oh right... we've already established that you have no problem accepting the benefits of government programs you don't support, whenever it benefits you to do so.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:29 pm

I really don't get what either of you are trying to say. I thought we were talking about subsidized lunches... As far as I know, school lunch programs are generally not subsidized in that each district usually farms it out to a vendor to provide the lunches and pays them per meal. I do understand that under some federal programs you can get $$ for serving healthy meals to kids even at like a daycare so maybe they are subsidized in those terms...

If you want to make all lunches free at school, I might support that... If a parent is too poor to buy food for his kids, theres a program for that. There doesn't need to be a separate program for subsidized lunches at school. its the parents responsibility to provide food for their kids whether its buying lunch at school or sending them with a sack lunch.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ambar » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:17 am

nevermind
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:15 pm

kiryan wrote:I really don't get what either of you are trying to say. I thought we were talking about subsidized lunches... As far as I know, school lunch programs are generally not subsidized in that each district usually farms it out to a vendor to provide the lunches and pays them per meal. I do understand that under some federal programs you can get $$ for serving healthy meals to kids even at like a daycare so maybe they are subsidized in those terms...

School lunches are, by default, subsidized for students. There are then additional discount/free lunch programs for underpriviledged children.

Every time your child buys pizza on Fridays, he's costing the taxpayers money :)
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:47 pm

How are regular price lunchese subsidized?
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:58 pm

kiryan wrote:How are regular price lunchese subsidized?

Part of the cost the school pays to the vendor is covered by the government subsidy. If you want to get technical about it, the labor costs for the preparation and service of the food is also government-funded, since the lunch ladies are paid by the school district (which in turn gets its funding from the government).
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:57 pm

I have read several articles over the years about the various schools in the various places I have lived plus have heard random things from principles and school employees. Schools aren't like when we were kids where the lunch lady worked for the school.

Schools today contract with a vendor for lunches. The people dishing up the lunch are vendor employees. The cost the kids pay is the cost the vendor charges the school for the lunches. In some cases, the kids pay the vendor directly. Now whether there is a subsidy that the vendor or school is getting directly, I don't know, but if the school is getting a subsidy and charging full vendor price for a lunch, that would probably be a news story.

I'm still not sure where the subsidy is.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:03 pm

Never heard of anything like that. I also can't argue with random things you read or heard from random people over the years.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:33 pm

well there you go, you've never heard of it before, I didn't take meticulous notes on which people said what about something completely inconsequential, so it must not be true.

Illionois state board of education references a type of contract where the meals are "prepares and serves the meals and/or manages the school meal program(s)". I read about contracts like this in the local newspaper covering Greater Albany Public School district in Albany Oregon. I also received the notifications of how much lunches would cost directly from the schools when they negotiated new contracts. The Flagstaff Unified in Flagstaff, Arizona did this. I read about it a couple times on schools in Los Angeles. My kids in Laurel MT are being served food by non-school employees.

http://www.isbe.state.il.us/nutrition/h ... rvices.htm

A food service management company (FSMC) contract is one in which the contractor manages some aspect of the school food service program. Generally, the FSMC prepares and serves the meals and/or manages the school meal program(s).

btw, "managing the school meal program" can include making the lunch calendar that the secretaries then add all the school events too. That was from the office lady at oak grove elementary in albany oregon.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:12 pm

kiryan wrote:well there you go, you've never heard of it before, I didn't take meticulous notes on which people said what about something completely inconsequential, so it must not be true.

Uhh... yes... that's more or less how it goes. I've never heard of it before, you don't have a credible source for your information, so by default I assume you're simply wrong until you back up your statement.

At any rate, it looks like we're both right. On one hand, the lunch ladies are typically employed by the vendor company, and are paid out of the payroll of that private corporation (so labor and service is not federally subsidized). However, the National School Lunch Program reimburses schools a set amount for each lunch sold, including full-price lunches. So while the labor is privatized, each school gets a check at the end of the month partially reimbursing them for the cost of food provided.

NSLP website: http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Lunch/

In Fairfax County, the subsidy is approximately 25% of the total cost of the meal.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:40 pm

I wonder if they pass that subsidy to the parents or whether they pay the contractor $1.50 a meal, charge the parents $1.50 then bank $0.40.

I'm not surprised, I knew about the program for the daycares. Private daycares providing your kids snacks (or a meal) get a check from these federal programs.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:42 pm

kiryan wrote:I wonder if they pass that subsidy to the parents or whether they pay the contractor $1.50 a meal, charge the parents $1.50 then bank $0.40.

I'm not surprised, I knew about the program for the daycares. Private daycares providing your kids snacks (or a meal) get a check from these federal programs.

I really have no idea, but considering school lunches in my county (and I live in one of the richest counties in the country) are $3.40 for high school students, I'm tempted to say they probably pass the subsidy to the students.

You can't buy a Big Mac here for $3.40.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:05 am

have you eaten a school lunch lately? There ain't $3.40 worth of food there especially if you are serving 500 at a time.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby Sarvis » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:33 am

kiryan wrote:have you eaten a school lunch lately? There ain't $3.40 worth of food there especially if you are serving 500 at a time.


You realize that serving a large volume of anything reduces the unit price, right? Just ask WalMart.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:25 am

that is my point, its hard to imagine a school lunch is subsidized at those costs... At least 1 article I read about the Albany contract said the shool was charged I thin 2.35 per meal at the time and that is what us parents paid. I wonder how / where the subsidy money is going assuming they were claiming it.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:22 am

Dalar wrote: It's no wonder Houston ranks 83rd on the Forbes list of the 100 most educated cities in America.

I wonder how that looks when Texas ranks 4th with primarily Spanish speaking households.
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:27 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
Dalar wrote: It's no wonder Houston ranks 83rd on the Forbes list of the 100 most educated cities in America.

I wonder how that looks when Texas ranks 4th with primarily Spanish speaking households.

I was not able to find this Forbes list. Can anyone provide a quick link?
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Re: Children school diets?

Postby kiryan » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:00 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:
Dalar wrote: It's no wonder Houston ranks 83rd on the Forbes list of the 100 most educated cities in America.

I wonder how that looks when Texas ranks 4th with primarily Spanish speaking households.


I'm sure they used a tactic from the census and revised the data so it would conform to what was expected in the statistics. I mean you couldn't actually count the hispanics and rely on that, no if they are underreported, you just triple their # and call it Mike's trick to hide the decline in hispanic households because we know immigration is happening.

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