National Guard

[Sarvis]

So has anyone ever been in the National Guard and know how that works?

Hanh had signed up for the Guard just before we started dating, and I found out the other day. She thought it would be a few months before she went off to boot camp... but she just got the letter and she's shipping out on the 11th.

We'll be talking about it tonight... but I'm wondering how boot camp works, and where she's likely to go after? I mean, will we be able to talk while she's at boot camp? Will they send her off to Iraq, or does she have any say in where she goes?

This is the first relationship I've ever had where things seemed to be going well, only it's only been a few weeks so we're not quite in the Relationship part yet. Just in the "we know we like each other a lot and wanted to have time to see where this goes" part. And now she's leaving before we get to find out. FML.

[kiryan]

I have a sister in law in the guard. so I know a little. After boot camp, I think she'll be assigned to a unit. That unit is going to be in her local area (it might be based a couple hours away, but basically local). She'll then work with them in deciding what "job" she is going to have depending on what the unit needs. Some possibility of switching units depending on other units needs and her preferences for a job. If there is additional training required for the job, she'll be scheduled for it (which may involve going to another state for 4-8 weeks).

The unit she is assigned to may be already scheduled to go to Iraq or Afghanistan... However, before a unit is deployed they do go through a couple months of more intensive "pre deployment" training. Which means a lot more weekends (or weekdays if they don't work) than typical.

This isn't real great for your relationship. Besides the long distance thing if when she gets deployed. Little tribes develop in guard units and they become a tight social group with shared experiences (all the guard stuff). Her social group will probably become primarily guard based... even if its only 1 or 2 best friends rather than a tribe of 10-15 people. You'll feel out of place when you are with her + them assuming you make it to that stage. Now toss in shit tons of alcohol and basic partying at a ratio of 10 men to every chick, and they are all going to be in better physical shape and outgoing and aggressive than you are. Hopefully she likes the brainy types.

[Sarvis]

Is she basically full time military then? Does she go back to a regular job after boot camp, then just does the Guard thing on call or something? Will there be chances for us to talk or get together even during boot camp, or is she basically gone in 2 weeks?

Dammit this sucks...

[kiryan]

1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year I believe is the "standard" during normal times. So she could have a regular job and pretty much have a regular life.

During times of crisis, like a war or hurricane katrina, the guard unit can be activated and can be told to do pretty much anything they want you to do... work 7 straight 20 hour days, go to Iraq for 9 months ect... go to 3 months of training here or there. I think activating and deploying guard units was a relatively new concept that I believe was started under Bush. It may have happened before, but its not typical for every conflict and was only activated after the military units were exhausted...

I don't know about the national guard version of boot camp... I believe its a slightly toned down version of the Army regular boot camp, but it might be the same... The bootcamps I do believe take place at the same place regular bootcamp happens... So she may very well be going hundreds or thousands of miles away to "bootcamp". My buddy shipped from Los Angeles to Chicago and did bootcamp basically in late winter which was apparently really damn cold. In general, I don't think you can have visitors although they do get some very limited "rec" time where I think you may be able to visit. Phone calls are definitely possible, probably Internet too... however, its not like they get every weekend off and they can have all rec time cancelled by their drill sergeant for pretty much whatever reason they decide. You can attend the graduation ceremony =).

[Sarvis]

Holy crap, for what has to be the first time ever I caught a break in a relationship! She got moved back a couple months, so she's not leaving until MARCH!

It was insane because it was putting so much pressure on us to figure out our entire relationship in like 2 weeks and then have her leave. Now we at least have time to get to know each other properly and without all that pressure. I know she'll still be leaving eventually, but I feel like by then we'll know each other well enough to decide on a long distance relationship or any other options.

It's insane how much better I feel after getting this news!

[avak]

Kiryan has it right. The deployment rate for the Guard can be pretty high depending on where she is. On the other hand, it is entirely likely that she would have a 'normal' life essentially in the same place she is now...after that first training phase...which is less than two months I think.

Why doesn't she know all this? Or you just haven't talked to her about the details yet?

[Sarvis]

I've talked to her about some of it, but at the time of the original posting I had pretty much just found out. Basic is 9 weeks, then her MOS training after... the total between basic and that is 3 months according to her. After that she wants to do officer training though, so she said she could be gone up to 6 months...

There's worse, really... she might not be viewing this as a long term relationship. Obviously she's still leaving in a couple months, and she's said she likes being single and told me straight out that she has trouble remaining faithful in long distance relationships. In some ways she's trying to warn me off and keep me from getting too attached...

On the other hand, my therapist suggested that this means she cares about me and doesn't want to hurt me... and that maybe she really wants me to be the guy who doesn't give up on her.

I guess we'll see... but we have some time now to at least see what develops.

[Corth]

How much is your therapist charging you for that advice?

[Sarvis]

Probably less than you charge clients! :P

Think about it though, if all you wanted was to use someone and leave them would you tell them that?

I don't know really... but I do want to see where things go with this girl.

[Corth]

Come to think of it, whatever you are paying him is a bargain. :)

My own feeling is that you generally take a person at face value. If they tell you that they do not like to have long term relationships, and that they cannot remain faithful in long term relationships, I would take that as a signal to enjoy the next few weeks but get ready to move on. I can't say with any degree of certainty that your shrink is wrong. However, per Occam's Razor, the simpler solution usually makes more sense. Nothing though is very simple though in your world Sarvis.

[Sarvis]

No, it isn't... least of all her.

Example: She has issues with trusting people, but after a few dates was going to send me her credit card number so I could order something online for her. How does THAT make sense? (Unless it was a test and she'd rather risk a financial issue than let herself get hurt emotionally.)

Remember Corth, if people couldn't desire to change their old patterns and improve themselves I'd still be obsessing over strippers! And she has mentioned wanting to do better... she just doesn't think we have time.

EDIT: Not that you're wrong about just trying to enjoy the time we have...

[Corth]

is that some sort of tacit admission that you have realized looking for love in a strip bar is a bad idea? :)

With the CC. I'm thinking there are people you trust won't steal from you, but don't necessarily trust enough to make babies with. You know? BTW, it's kind of irrelevent, but generally you are only liable up to $50 for unauthorized credit card useage. Doubt that is what was going through her head at the time. I just don't think that her act shows the kind of trust that you think it shows.

[Sarvis]

is that some sort of tacit admission that you have realized looking for love in a strip bar is a bad idea? :)

I never said it was a good idea, but that doesn't mean it's an impossibility! (One of the other dancers there actually told me about a couple who met at the club and ended up getting married.)

With the CC. I'm thinking there are people you trust won't steal from you, but don't necessarily trust enough to make babies with. You know? BTW, it's kind of irrelevent, but generally you are only liable up to $50 for unauthorized credit card useage. Doubt that is what was going through her head at the time. I just don't think that her act shows the kind of trust that you think it shows.

It was more an example of her being confusing. I know it's a different kind of trust... but honestly I'm not sure I'd hand her my card yet at this point. (Then again, I apparently also have trust issues...)

[kiryan]

I find the simplest answer is almost always the right answer. However, the obvious answer is not always when you don't fully understand the situation or know all the facts.

So she told you she had trust issues... but then gives you her credit card #. These two statements don't agree with each other. My opinion based on the little I know is that she doesn't have trust issues, she is putting you off by telling you she has trust issues. She is probably either not interested in a long term with you (if she is putting out), or isn't interested in dating you at all (if she hasn't put out yet).

Your emotional investment in this relationship seems awfully high given it doesn't sound like you two have known each other very long... You might be one of those love sick puppy types... Girls can smell that a mile away and generally do not get into serious relationships with one.

[Sarvis]

I find the simplest answer is almost always the right answer. However, the obvious answer is not always when you don't fully understand the situation or know all the facts.

So she told you she had trust issues... but then gives you her credit card #. These two statements don't agree with each other.

Hey, where's Kifle on this one? I want to hear how women are simple again! ;)

My opinion based on the little I know is that she doesn't have trust issues, she is putting you off by telling you she has trust issues. She is probably either not interested in a long term with you (if she is putting out), or isn't interested in dating you at all (if she hasn't put out yet).

She is definitely trying to push me away. She's leaving in two months, and she doesn't want me getting too attached.

On the other hand, she decorated cookies with her surrogate family on XMas eve... and she decorated her two cookies as me and her. That doesn't say "not interested" to me...

Your emotional investment in this relationship seems awfully high given it doesn't sound like you two have known each other very long...

True, I think. On the other hand when we found out she was leaving we had two options, stop dating or see where things went in a couple weeks. That led to a lot of talking and dealing with things that are difficult for us to talk about, which probably ended up bringing us closer together overall.

Besides, she kind of thinks I'm a player since I've hung out with and made out with so many girls from my meetup groups lately... probably helps that she found out I was dating another girl when we started dating. I don't think she looks at me as a guy without options, at least.

[kiryan]

Decorating Christmas cookies of you and her? With a surrogate family? How long have you known each other?

I'll take back that part about not being into you back, she may very well be. The simpler answer now is that she is immature / hasn't grown up yet. The whole national guard thing may have been a lot of I don't have any idea what I'm going to do with life so guess I'll enroll in the guard and I'll sound smart by saying its going to pay for college.

What has she told you about her past love life? How old is she? Where did you meet her? Can you identify anything in her life that she has diligently persevered at? (career, a skill, well into paying off a major purchase like a car)? Has she lived in the same location / apartment for a long period of time?

[Sarvis]

Decorating Christmas cookies of you and her? With a surrogate family? How long have you known each other?

Yes. She's staying with her best friend right now, who is married and has two kids. We met in mid-October I think, but I only saw her a few times until we started dating in December.

I'll take back that part about not being into you back, she may very well be. The simpler answer now is that she is immature / hasn't grown up yet.

Actually she does seem pretty mature. Like I said though, she has some issues and it sounds like she's gotten hurt pretty bad in a couple relationships. I guess there were a couple times where she put her life on hold for a guy and got burned by it, and she kind of dropped out of the dating pool for a while after that.

The whole national guard thing may have been a lot of I don't have any idea what I'm going to do with life so guess I'll enroll in the guard and I'll sound smart by saying its going to pay for college.

She graduated college, but I don't think she's happy with where that got her. She's just a paper pusher right now, but I think she had a much better job before moving out here. She says she just wanted to live on the east coast for a while, and she's in Buffalo because her best friend was up here and insisted she come here so she at least knew someone.

What has she told you about her past love life? How old is she? Where did you meet her? Can you identify anything in her life that she has diligently persevered at? (career, a skill, well into paying off a major purchase like a car)? Has she lived in the same location / apartment for a long period of time?

She's my age, we met at a meetup.com thing but we hit it off at a bar while getting retardedly drunk together. She paid off her last car, and then bought a new car which I believe she's well into paying off... she's also finished college and worked in her career for quite a while before moving out here.

I think the National Guard thing is partly to pay off her student loans, but also for some career training for a more lucrative job when she gets out. I forget exactly what she said, something with communications I think.

[Sarvis]

Well, she just dumped me. She's too worried about hurting me when she leaves, and she's afraid this is becoming too real for her.

Yay. Again the nice guy loses out. If I'd just wanted to bang her I could have earned her trust and had a few weeks of good sex... but no, I have to go and actually care about her. Silly me.

[Kindi]

sex creates deeper emotions in both ppl. should have banged her then maybe she'd care.

[Sarvis]

So why do I keep coming to you guys for advice, anyway?

I guess because I need to feel like I'm doing something, or I start going nuts... but still feedback from multiple sources is helpful. While I'm waiting to hear back from pick up artists, a couple friends AND my current therapist...

I came to the conclusion that her feelings for me are probably genuine. When we talked I told her it felt like she was afraid there might be something real between us, and was backing off because she was scared. She said that was definitely part of it.

Talking with the Therapist we concluded I may have inadvertently given her a couple wrong impressions (like that I was just looking for sex) and made her feel less special. I had written this big long email, had the therapist review it and make some suggestions... overall she thought I was saying the right things but wanted me to add a few things to reassure her that I was afraid of relationships too and that I thought we were good for each other and could help each other. Therapist is still basically saying she wants someone who doesn't give up on her though...

Sent the final version Monday night, and haven't heard back. So what next? How much "not giving up" before I just look crazy?

Was thinking of texting her, and making sure she even got the email... basically "Good morning Hanh! Hope you're having a good week so far. :) Just wanted to make sure you got the email I sent...?"

Then if she replies back with something other than "stop texting me you freak" trying to see if we could get together at the same place we had our first date.

So... is that a crazy idea?

[Pril]

Giant boombox on her front lawn. Always works :)

[Sarvis]

Yeah, her roomate is in the army and may have guns... so, no. :P

[Sarvis]

Therapist says no, it would put pressure on her and if she's not replying she probably thinks that's the only way to make a clean break. :(

[Pril]

What if you kidnap her and tie her up in your basement?

[kiryan]

If she is worth having, then you shouldn't give up. It sounds like to me there are too many "wierd" things going on with her. She sounds responsible in some ways, but the rest is strange. too strange to be in a relationship with in my opinion, she might be a fixer upper, but I'm not sure you're up to the task, especially because you seem like the love struck puppy dog and to fix someone you have to redefine their attitudes and rules for them. You have to be in control, not just there supporting (enabling) them all the time. You'll probably just end up being a regular on her personal drama show.

The statements you made regarding your therapist and the letter are interesting. Maybe this chick isn't as wierd as it seems from your portrayal, maybe you're just making her sound wierd. Are you that guy? That guy who always has drama in his life because you just can't accept being happy? My wife's ex was like, it was always a pity party, he'd go out of his way to do things the hard way so it would be poor me.

Also, a therapist helping you with your letter and going along with the suggestion that you two could help each other out doesn't sound right to me. Most therapists I know are very very against people getting involved in relationships until they have worked out their own issues. Relationships are hard enough with two "normal" people. The therapist must not think your that screwed up... or must not be very good. They might think that doing the letter is a good step in working out your own personal issues, but if looking at it from that angle probably wouldn't get very involved in the actual message just the process you're goign through...

[Sarvis]

to fix someone you have to redefine their attitudes and rules for them.

Really not sure that's true. I think that what my therapist has in mind is that we both need to move slowly, so it won't create a problem for either of us when the other wants to slow down a bit. That part seemed to be going well, anyway...

You have to be in control, not just there supporting (enabling) them all the time. You'll probably just end up being a regular on her personal drama show.

At this point, it's more like we'll never speak again... :(

The statements you made regarding your therapist and the letter are interesting. Maybe this chick isn't as wierd as it seems from your portrayal, maybe you're just making her sound wierd.

How does she seem weird? She's not a whole lot like other girls, but in many cases that's a good thing. She's much more honest and caring than most women I've met (assuming she hasn't been lying to me about her feelings.) On the other hand she's weird in messed up ways too. Apparently there are "boyfriends" she's slept with but never kissed, for instance, because kissing was too intimate. (Remember when I was all freaked out we didn't kiss after the second or third date? Hah!)

Are you that guy? That guy who always has drama in his life because you just can't accept being happy? My wife's ex was like, it was always a pity party, he'd go out of his way to do things the hard way so it would be poor me.

I don't get to be happy. The day after I finally realized she liked me, she gave me the little kiss and we cuddled for a while I was ecstatic. That night she found out she was leaving in two weeks. Not my doing... except that I had chosen her. She got pushed back and we got two extra months, I was happy again for a few days! Then she dumps me...

You could make an argument that I chose the girl I knew would have problems with commitment over the girl who was obsessive... but I'm betting either choice would have had it's own drama. (And Hanh is hotter.)

Also, a therapist helping you with your letter and going along with the suggestion that you two could help each other out doesn't sound right to me. Most therapists I know are very very against people getting involved in relationships until they have worked out their own issues. Relationships are hard enough with two "normal" people. The therapist must not think your that screwed up... or must not be very good. They might think that doing the letter is a good step in working out your own personal issues, but if looking at it from that angle probably wouldn't get very involved in the actual message just the process you're goign through...

I don't know how I (or even we) could resolve our issues without trying though? How do you learn to trust or not fear commitment without actually attempting to do those things? She also said she wasn't surprised I'd fall for Hanh because our similar issues create a sort of kinship.

[amena wolfsnarl]

just get hookers, they are cheaper in the long run!

[Sarvis]

Hmm...

$100 for her birthday dinner
$75 for ticket to masquerade ball she wanted to go to for NYE
$93 for the tux rental for NYE...
$73.73 dinner at Carrabba's (she contributed, but not THAT much.)

And that's just the big ticket stuff, not including gas or meals just eating out when I normally wouldn't.

Oh, and didn't get laid... so yeah. You're not wrong.

[Pril]

What do hookers go for up in Buffalo now a days anyways? $20? :)

[Sarvis]

Depends on quality... I think I could go a little higher than your mom!

[Pril]

Sarvis I hate to break it to you but you're wrong yet again:

1) My mom is not up in Buffalo.
2) If my mom were in Buffalo she wouldn't be a hooker.
3) If she were in Buffalo and a hooker she'd cost more than $20.
4) If she were in Buffalo, a hooker, and only cost $20 you wouldn't be able to do better than here.
5) I mean honestly the average hooker in buffalo looks like Maxler building computers so how much could they possibly charge? :)

[Sarvis]

Sarvis I hate to break it to you but you're wrong yet again:

1) My mom is not up in Buffalo.
2) If my mom were in Buffalo she wouldn't be a hooker.
3) If she were in Buffalo and a hooker she'd cost more than $20.
4) If she were in Buffalo, a hooker, and only cost $20 you wouldn't be able to do better than here.
5) I mean honestly the average hooker in buffalo looks like Maxler building computers so how much could they possibly charge? :)

1) It was comparative
2) So she doesn't charge?
3) You're talking about the group rate, right?
4) Not according to what I've heard...
5) Well, we do get Canadian imports don't forget. :P

[Pril]

To Sumarize:

These are the quality hookers from Buffalo: