Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

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kiryan
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Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:46 pm

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/QuitToLive ... id=9629201

Wow. Thats all I have to say. This hospital will not hire you, and will fire you, if you use any tobacco product at work, at home, anywhere any time. I had no idea this practice was so widespread (not common, but I'd only ever heard about one other company looking at tobacco as an employment issue). Obviously one of the driving factors is health insurance costs, smokers cost a lot more to insure... but wow. but you know what I say, great.

Lets take it even further. Let's go ahead and target another group of very expensive people to insure. Fat people. DHS in Oregon has a shit ton of 350 pounders. Let's make it so you can't work for the state unless you're BMI is < 12 for a man and 20 for a woman; I mean they made it a law that police officers couldn't smoke in that one state. And then let's look at the Elderely, if you are over age 35, no jobs for you. And I think studies have conclusively shown that women consume 2.5 more times healthcare than men do, so women should be discriminated against too.

Absolutely fucking insane. The guy with face tattoos and nose rings can't be discriminated against, minorities who flunk tests must be promoted, but if you smoke you're just screwed?
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Sarvis » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:58 pm

Kiryan, are you saying a private company shouldn't be able to do whatever it wants with regards to employees? Should we regulate private companies to force them to hire smokers?
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Corth » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:00 pm

Well certainly private companies are not allowed to, for instance, discriminate in hiring practices on the basis of race, gender, religion, etc. Not exactly my area of law, but I don't believe smokers are given any type of protected status. From a legal perspective I think the hospital it probably within it's rights.. but there could be state laws I am not aware of.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:55 pm

Yes I am. Theres a difference between believing companies should be able to do what they want free of government interference and openly discriminating against a class of people. Racism is basically wrong, affirmative action is worse.

But anyhow, regardless of my views... where is your outrage and the rest of your minority championing friends?

Oh right, smoking its EVIL like BANKS and INSURANCE COMPANIES and REPUBLICANS and TEA BAGGERS.

Corth, yea thats what the article indicates, I didn't realize there were so few protected classes of people. actually I did know but had never really thought about it / made the deeper connection. Discrimination is not inherently illegal, just illegal against the protected classes. There is still wrongful termination civil lawsuits though... but with the right policies and communications I guess it wouldn't amount to wrongful termination.
Last edited by kiryan on Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Sarvis » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:57 pm

kiryan wrote:Yes I am. Theres a difference between believing companies should be able to do what they want free of government interference and openly discriminating against a class of people. Racism is basically wrong, affirmative action is worse.

But anyhow, regardless of my views... where is your outrage and the rest of your minority championing friends?

Oh right, smoking its EVIL like BANKS and INSURANCE COMPANIES and REPUBLICANS and TEA BAGGERS.


Actually I don't support this at all and think it's retarded that a company should be able to enforce rules on the private lives of their employees.

But comparing this to racism is retar... oh, shit forgot who I was talking to.

Look, when people CHOOSE to become black then we'll do away with affirmative action. When people are BORN smokers we'll legislate that companies can't discriminate.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:39 pm

so discrimination is only valid if you were born with a pre-existing condition... like say the double Y male or being black.

all other discrimination is fine? So your pro discrimination against fat people? How about intelligence tests? A 4 year college degree is said to raise your IQ by 30 points. You think its perfectly fine to give some pinhead a computer job because he has a degree while you remain unemployed despite being able to do the job better?

Discrimination is discrimination. Its not different because you were born a woman in a man's body or just chose to have a sex change later in life.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Ragorn » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:36 pm

We have these things called "protected statuses." Smoking is not one of them.

So yes, it's ok to discriminate against smokers. No, it's not ok to discriminate against black people. The laws are actually refreshingly clear about this.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:21 pm

and you agree that only some types of discrimination should be protected? So if I start discriminating against fat people, thats ok since its not a protected status?

How about if we discriminate based on being able to speak English? (below article is not exactly relevant, its about a company making it a policy not to speak spanish in customer facing areas).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100122/ap_ ... glish_only
Sarvis
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Sarvis » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:27 pm

kiryan wrote:and you agree that only some types of discrimination should be protected? So if I start discriminating against fat people, thats ok since its not a protected status?

How about if we discriminate based on being able to speak English?


Many jobs discriminate based on language, both English and the need for a second language. Your point?

Oh wait, this is just mindless Kiryan ranting with no direction... :roll:
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby ssar » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:08 pm

Makes sense.

Although banning employees from doing whatever they wish whilst offsite / in thier own home is a bit harsh.

However, when it comes to tobacco, the vast majority of smokers just aren't getting the message, warranting tougher action.

Wish we saw much more of this kind of thing, in part at least (particularly enforcing no smoking by anyone anywhere on hospital grounds (and other areas for that matter) anytime).

It's disgraceful & disgusting the amount of smokers @ my workplace frequently sucking on thier cancer sticks around 40m from my primary work area every day.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:12 pm

so let me be clear

you agree that companies should be able to discriminate based on being fat because fat people choose to be fat.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Sarvis » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:15 pm

I believe that what I ALREADY said was:

"Actually I don't support this at all and think it's retarded that a company should be able to enforce rules on the private lives of their employees. "
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:44 am

first off BMI is a crock of shit, it always has been it always will be, when BMI says Evander holifield was morbidly obese at his prime i call bullshit.

Second off, employess represent the first impression of your company, If i want my company to represent healthy people, im going to hire healthy people, If im running a bar im going to hire hot woman, rather than ugly ones. This discrimination is practiced all the time, in every industry. Personally i think its great, smoking is deadly, I dont want to be around it at work, the home life thing is going a little far, however it would be pretty hard to prove someone was smoking at home. At the hospital here in town the smoking area is outside of the emergency exit, at nite thats the only exit u can use to get out, i loved taking my new born daughter out that door to take her first breath of fresh air only to have some smoker wander over and look down at my baby and practically blow smoke in her face.....Ban it completely and be done with it.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Lorendel Ebonmist » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:28 am

It amazes me how supportive people can be about banning things.
When they start to ban things YOU like, or find recreational, or find enjoyment from...I'm sure it will be a different story.

How long will it be before this hospital bans its employees from say : Mt. Dew, Burger King, White Bread, Pasta, alcohol consumption....how long will it be before second hand alcohol consumption becomes an issue...I dont drink Vodka hate the stuff..cant stand it...but in a bar with half the people drinking vodka drinks I am forced to consume vodka emitted into the public air as they exhale...I cant believe they are allowed to do this! It would be interesting to see a study done on the alcohol content of the air from exhaling drinkers.

People who drive fast are insurance risks...get a speeding ticket...your fired!
People who ski, or skateboard, or rollerboard, or surf, or skydive, or engage in any sport are insurance risks.
The most dangerous sport in the world is...Fishing...you can teach a man to fish...but if he does...Your Fired!

Its easy for policies to target groups of people for which they can raise even a little bit of sentiment towards,
but where will allowing these policies stop. I know...when its too late...and you find yourself a prisoner in your own home, fearful to even go for a bike ride...cause you might get fired...and eventually this will evolve into being against the law.

I just cant understand how people can support the repression of anybody, even if its not something you do...the lack of foresight people exhibit toward those juxstaposed to "themselves" amazes me, truly mind boggling.

Enjoy Your Brave New World.
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby Ragorn » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:21 pm

kiryan wrote:and you agree that only some types of discrimination should be protected? So if I start discriminating against fat people, thats ok since its not a protected status?

How about if we discriminate based on being able to speak English? (below article is not exactly relevant, its about a company making it a policy not to speak spanish in customer facing areas).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100122/ap_ ... glish_only

You, as a business owner, are allowed to discriminate against fat people, non-english speakers, tall people, people with red hair, ugly people, or smokers. None of those are a constitutional issue. If you only want to hire beautiful, young, attractive women to work for you, you are allowed to do that. You are NOT allowed to only hire beautiful, young, attractive, white women, because race IS a protected status.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Smoke, sorry we don't need your kind here.

Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:16 pm

Funnily enough, the law mentions little about what a protected status is or isn't.

Take care to examine the difference between what is illegal and what is enforceable.

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