Politicans to American people, calm down?

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Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:53 pm

Uh no, I'm mad as hell and I'm done with just voting. its past time to get fired up, to get active, to get pissed off Cindy Sheehan style. I expected the Democrats to play the victim card, but I am absolutely disgusted by the Republicans response. The polls say America didn't like the reform bill, the polls say America can't stand the house of representatives, the polls say we don't trust government and that we don't trust them to fix our problems. why the f*k should we not escalate and do something about it?

They should've wagged their finger at them and said we told you so and now this is what you deserve for pissing off half of America with this bill. Its not time to stay calm, its time to get angry and aggressive. They didn't listen to us and now its time to stop talking, time to stop hoping, its time to do things. Whether thats harass your representatives at their offices or over the phones at their homes and email or stir up anger and organize discension. its time to engage in civil disobedience. Let them bring the feds in, bring the national guard in, let all of the world see that America is a beacon of freedom and we will not accept tyranny and rulers who pervert the will of the people and manage us like their private herd of sheep, their private piggy bank.

I felt strongly about politics before, now consider me radicalized. Consider me an extremist. Consider me an ends justify the means man just like environmentalists, unions, ACORN and Democrats in general have been doing for decades but particularly distasteful over the last 2 years. You can't win playing by their rules, its time to change the game.

Savor your healthcare reform victory and understand we are now engaged in an ideological war. As such, I won't be posting much in the future. This was fun and entertaining, but its time to get serious now and that means I need more time to talk to stir up allies and engage enemies locally.

So long and thanks for all the fish. With any luck, I'll get myself elected in about 10 years.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:05 pm

kiryan wrote: but I am absolutely disgusted by the Republicans response.


Well, that's a start at least.

bring the national guard in


I know you're all fired up, but no hurting anyone. There's someone out there I care about.

I know you can't understand caring about someone... but still.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:35 pm

I'm talking about bringing the national guard in Iran style. When the people protested, they brought the army in to quell the uprising. Make no mistake, republicans and democrats, the political ruling class do not want a real uprising of the people unless it puts them in charge, when they see that we're goign to get rid of all of them, they'll circle the wagons.

I have too many responsibilities to break significant laws or wage a campaign of violence. So you don't have to worry about me specifically and btw thank you for your concern. However, I refuse to denounce violence. When government stops representing the people, it is to be overthrown and well that usually involves violence. We're not there yet, but we're getting closer. Maybe Jeb Bush or Sarah Palin can give me a cabinet position like Obama did for saul alinsky who actually advocated and probably participated in violence to affect domestic change.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:53 pm

IMO, this is the "beauty" of what is happening. Many republicans can't stand the thought that they lost control of the country because of their flawed ideology, so they literally resort to violence.

I welcome the day that the silent majority of clear-headed Americans within the party of small government stand up in unity and squash this juvenile brat of a contingent...with faces like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

We will have a better system...not because of you...in spite of you.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:14 pm

I think people said the same thing about the hippies, rioters, and protesters (see Liberals) during the 1960s.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:35 am

Yeah, once the baby boom generation gets into power, we'll see some real change around here!
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:36 am

What? Like universal health coverage? The biggest domestic legislation in over 45 years?

Am I missing something in the sarcasm?
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Disoputlip » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:53 am

I am a big fan of civil disobedience, and think it is an excelent way of making a statement that will be heard.

My guess is there are groups out there you can join. Pro-gun anti government armies.

I just hope you find a group that is not full of complete fruitcakes.


Good luck with your project.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:51 am

Obama campaigned on healthcare reform iirc, and got elected. The voting populace voted for this, sorry.

Other than your delusions, don't fucking hurt Hanh.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:52 pm

avak wrote:What? Like universal health coverage? The biggest domestic legislation in over 45 years?

Biggest how? In cost? Medicare reforms under Bush cost more. In page number? Not exactly a meaningful metric. In effect of change? No single payer, no public option, slap on the wrist penalties... you'd be hard pressed to convince me this a major victory for change. It's not the end or savior of the world; it's just another bill.

And that's one more reason I thoroughly condemn Kiryan's call to violence.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:48 pm

It is obviously a matter of opinion, but you're deflecting from the original intent. This legislation, passed by the baby boomer generation, is historic.
It fell to the senior member of the U.S. House of Representatives, Michigan Democrat John Dingell, to put Sunday night's vote in favor of landmark health care legislation in perspective.
"Today we are doing something that ranks with Social Security and Medicare," declared the man whose father served during the New Deal era that gave America Social Security and who himself was present for the historic vote to create Medicare and Medicaid.

This is a very interesting article, btw. A Historic Vote for Health-Care Reform
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:08 pm

Saying it's big doesn't mean it's big. You're falling for the rhetoric as much as Kiryan.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:01 pm

Well, for the sake of argument (because I agree with your criticisms of the bill) would you name "bigger" recent legislation? Let's say bigger means more substantial in terms of impact to the general population....that's vague, but whatever.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:37 pm

The annual DoD budget, which includes the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, likely has greater impact on the general population, both positive and negative. A new bill is drafted every year, with lots of input from the President, the military, and various members of Congress.

It requires approval and voting every year, and can be quite contentious. I count it along the same metrics as the health insurance bill because it contains far more topics, funding for which can disappear or be conjured out of nowhere depending on the political climate, and it directs our actions as an imperialist nation.

If they did a new health insurance bill every year, even if it covered as many topics as this one, we wouldn't care about that, either. It's too easy to ignore the "mundane" stuff they do all the time.
Last edited by Todrael on Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:44 pm

avak wrote:The biggest domestic legislation in over 45 years?

And yes, you will score on semantics using that approach. Anyway, I think it is historic...so do a lot of people. And it is the 'foot in the door' so to speak. Check back in 20 or 40 years I guess.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:46 pm

Okay, if you don't count the DoD as domestic, then how about the Wall Street bailouts and jobs programs?

Sarbanes-Oxley had major impact on business. No Child Left Behind had major impacts on education. The Do-Not-Call list is pretty recent (good times, that one). The Patriot Act is still pretty unpopular for its wide-sweeping effects. They had a major overhaul of bankruptcy a few years ago. Katrina reconstruction made large changes to contracting efforts. The Department of Homeland Security didn't even exist 10 years ago. SCHIP, that children's health insurance bill, is recent, and might have been more a foot in the door, with this reform starting to force the door open.

Seriously, 45 years is a long time, and a lot has happened. Saying "this is the biggest thing omg huge" doesn't impress me until you can provide strict comparisons.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:05 pm

I think those are all valid counter examples. In light of that, I could definitely back off the 45 years claim. On the other hand, I think it well could end up being that significant. The historic nature of this legislation is not the bill per se, but the philosophical shift in how we view societal welfare.

Essentially saying that all boats are lifted in a rising tide is a paradigm that is very exciting to me.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:07 pm

It seems we're in agreement, then.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:22 pm

Todrael wrote:It seems we're in agreement, then.


Dammit, this is the internet! Agreement is not allowed! ;)
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:28 pm

Sarvis wrote:Agreement is not allowed!

I disagree...
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Pril » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:23 pm

Sarvis wrote:Obama campaigned on healthcare reform iirc, and got elected. The voting populace voted for this, sorry.


Most people voting for Obama were voting against McCain not for Obama. And Obama blew a lot more hot air then just the healthcare reform that people voted for. Just because someone voted for him does not mean they liked everything he had to say it just meant that they liked enough of the things more than McCain's policies.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:13 pm

Pril wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Obama campaigned on healthcare reform iirc, and got elected. The voting populace voted for this, sorry.


Most people voting for Obama were voting against McCain not for Obama. And Obama blew a lot more hot air then just the healthcare reform that people voted for. Just because someone voted for him does not mean they liked everything he had to say it just meant that they liked enough of the things more than McCain's policies.


Granted, but if something is in a guy's platform and you vote for him you can hardly bitch because he actually did it.

I mean really, we're supposed to be mad because he tried to KEEP a campaign promise?
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:54 pm

personally i am glad to see the american people take this giant step towards universal health care....hate to break it to everyone but it works! dont worry im sure it will be years before you become a socialist country....and communism is just over the horizon after that lol
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:21 pm

The Daily Show talks about Republican calls to violence.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Ragorn » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:22 pm

I already consider you an extremist, kiryan. It's unfortunate that you have to threaten violence when the majority of the nation disagrees with your personal opinion. Of course, you spent the last 8 years calling people who disagreed with the president "unamerican" and "traitors," so I guess it would be appropriate for me to do the same to you now. You're not a patriot, you're a domestic terrorist calling for action against the government.

So... yeah. Let me know when it finally dawns on you that you're not the hero of the story... you're not George Washington valiantly fighting the British, you're Timothy McVeigh plotting the destruction of your own nation. Let me know how that works out for you.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:31 pm

I'm the bad guy?

Ragorn just made me think of that...
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:47 pm

Show me where a majority of people support the healthcare bill. Every poll I've seen says more people are against it that for it. If it was 70% for healthcare, I wouldn't be half as pissed off. But when Democracy goes bad, someone has to take it back. Thats the purpose of the 2nd amendment to protect our freedom from the federal government. Its well documented if you care to read about it directly from the founding fathers.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Ragorn » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:04 pm

kiryan wrote:Show me where a majority of people support the healthcare bill. Every poll I've seen says more people are against it that for it. If it was 70% for healthcare, I wouldn't be half as pissed off. But when Democracy goes bad, someone has to take it back. Thats the purpose of the 2nd amendment to protect our freedom from the federal government. Its well documented if you care to read about it directly from the founding fathers.

If only you'd gotten as up in arms about the Patriot Act and other Republican-sponsored legislation that attacked your freedoms much more directly than the fucking health care bill.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Disoputlip » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 pm

In the states there isn't direct democracy as there is in e.g. Switzerland.

Even if some polls indicate there is something for or against some issue, then politicians don't have to vote like those polls.

Obama never lied that that was what he stood for when he ran. And people knew he would work for it if he got elected.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:19 pm

kiryan wrote:Show me where a majority of people support the healthcare bill.


I'd say you said it yourself, actually:

kiryan wrote:Ignore 40-50% of the people, then pass a load of crap that has to be fixed before the ink is dry.


If they ignored 40% of the people, 60% supported it right?

Every poll I've seen says more people are against it that for it. If it was 70% for healthcare, I wouldn't be half as pissed off. But when Democracy goes bad, someone has to take it back. Thats the purpose of the 2nd amendment to protect our freedom from the federal government. Its well documented if you care to read about it directly from the founding fathers.


The majority of the people who voted, chose Obama. Obama's platform included healthcare reform. The majority of voters voted for a candidate who proposed healthcare reform.

The current opposition you see now is being stirred up by Republicans, as you see in the Daily Show video.

I'm sorry your side lost, but the reality is that none of US were threatening to revolt when Bush started an unjust war, passed legislation that curtailed our rights, and basically ruined the country. We were capable of understanding that we were outvoted and would have to wait until Bush's ineptitude became apparent even to rabid conservatives and the Republicans were voted out en masse.

Which happened.

See, the system worked. You're just bitter now because you're not on the winning team anymore. You have no sense of perspective or connection to our society to let you see that we are getting what we voted for.

So you know what? Sit down, learn some patience and wait until the next election. Just like we had to for 8 years of Bush. There's a few seats opening up November, vote in some Republicans if you feel so bad about it. This legislation is a direct result of Republicans being voted out for their own ineptitude.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:09 pm

Yeah man, it is representative government...take up arms when you have exhausted all other options. So, when the election is rigged (uhh...Bush?) then you can start the incendiary rhetoric. In the meantime, try getting elected.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:07 am

avak wrote:IMO, this is the "beauty" of what is happening. Many republicans can't stand the thought that they lost control of the country because of their flawed ideology, so they literally resort to violence.

I welcome the day that the silent majority of clear-headed Americans within the party of small government stand up in unity and squash this juvenile brat of a contingent...with faces like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

We will have a better system...not because of you...in spite of you.

You are a moron. If many Republicans resorted to violence, you'd better hide your ass indoors.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:08 am

Ragorn wrote:I already consider you an extremist, kiryan. It's unfortunate that you have to threaten violence when the majority of the nation disagrees with your personal opinion.

On the other hand, violence is exactly what the Government of the United States of America now threatens upon YOU if you refuse to pay the fine for refusing to buy what they tell you to buy.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:11 am

Sarvis wrote:Obama campaigned on healthcare reform iirc, and got elected. The voting populace voted for this, sorry.

Other than your delusions, don't fucking hurt Hanh.

Obama campaigned on closing Guantanamo bay in a year. Obama campaigned on bringing home the troops from Iraq immediately... in a year... within 18 months... Obama campaigned on accepting public campaign funds.

Obama campaigned on... a lot of things.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:42 am

Good thing he DIDN'T keep his campaign promises, or Republicans would probably have actually started a revolt by now!
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:59 am

teflor the ranger wrote:
avak wrote:IMO, this is the "beauty" of what is happening. Many republicans can't stand the thought that they lost control of the country because of their flawed ideology, so they literally resort to violence.

I welcome the day that the silent majority of clear-headed Americans within the party of small government stand up in unity and squash this juvenile brat of a contingent...with faces like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

We will have a better system...not because of you...in spite of you.

You are a moron. If many Republicans resorted to violence, you'd better hide your ass indoors.

Wow, really? This coming from someone that looks like he was attacked by a rogue air compressor?
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Disoputlip » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:47 pm

I really like the debate level on this BBS. And I think the two rules there are is enough.

Let me repost rule number 1.


Forum rules
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:55 pm

Thanks...you're right...it was way out of hand. I would hate for the six people that still post here to be offended.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:55 pm

Sarvis, 40-50% I think is a conservative measure of the conservative base. The real # is probably between 50 and 60%. I picked it as to not get dinged for exaggerating statistics. The poll numbers on the actual bill are anywhere from 55-70% against healthcare, I understand some of those are against it because it doesn't include a public option, but there are a lot of people against it.

--

And lets be clear about how Obama and 60 democrats got elected. It wasn't because America supported the policies and rhetoric. It was because of a disastorous financial melt down and two unpopular wars and Obama willing to naievely say anything to get elected (cameras at the healthcare debates, closing guantanmo, science will rule the day?). Obama and the democrats do not give a shit what you think so don't kid yourself, they are quite literally going to do what they think is best for you. Fortunately for you, what they think is best for you matches what you think is best for you, but thats not true for roughly half the population and they imposed their will on us anyways. Would you be so cavilier if we overturned abortion in congress or the supreme court because we got a majority of votes? Coming from a guy who specializes in running projects, MAJOR CHANGES should always always always have a broad base or consensus. The bigger the change, the bigger the consensus you need or you alienate groups of people that you need to succeed. A bare majority in the house and they had to buy the last few senators. The fact they shoved this through after Brown won in Mass running as the 41st vote to stop this healthcare reform bill says it all, but Obama and the Democrats refused to listen because they know better for you. Or is it better for them since they carved out exceptions for themselves and the unions from the legislation.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:11 pm

kiryan wrote:don't kid yourself, they are quite literally going to do what they think is best for you.


Yes, that is their job as our representatives. Bush did what he thought was best for us too, right?


Fortunately for you, what they think is best for you matches what you think is best for you,


Yes, that's why we voted for him. The majority, in fact, agrees with what he said was best for us when he ran for election. Healthcare reform was one of those things. You admit yourself that part of the dissent against the healthcare bill is that it doesn't do ENOUGH. But that won't stop you from saying "the system is broken" because a President finally kept a campaign promise, for quite possibly the first time in history.

but thats not true for roughly half the population and they imposed their will on us anyways. Would you be so cavilier if we overturned abortion in congress or the supreme court because we got a majority of votes?


Really bad example. Abortion is too complex of an issue for me to be willing to take a side on.

However, if "Random Polarizing Policy" were implemented that I were wholeheartedly against I would do... well wait, you know what I would do. Just look at anything I posted during the Bush presidency. I'd discuss it with people and try to change their minds so they would vote differently next time.

I would NOT threaten to revolt like a two year old throwing a temper tantrum. (I wouldn't threaten to leave the country like a 4 year old running away from home either, though honestly the number and quality of single women that are on OKCupid in Toronto is awefully tempting...)


Coming from a guy who specializes in running projects, MAJOR CHANGES should always always always have a broad base or consensus. The bigger the change, the bigger the consensus you need or you alienate groups of people that you need to succeed. A bare majority in the house and they had to buy the last few senators. The fact they shoved this through after Brown won in Mass running as the 41st vote to stop this healthcare reform bill says it all, but Obama and the Democrats refused to listen because they know better for you. Or is it better for them since they carved out exceptions for themselves and the unions from the legislation.


None of which would have been necessary if the Republican "leadership" weren't pulling a Cartman and absenting themselves from the responsibility of leadership. They are not working for you, for us or for the country. They are acting like spoiled children, inciting violence and refusing to work towards compromise.

Oh, and for all your bluster about representation and how politicians are screwing us over, I'm betting you STILL won't care about how Republicans disenfranchised voters in the 2004 election.

Talk about being done with just voting.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:23 pm

These people agree with you, Kiryan...
Image
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:45 pm

you want to talk about voter intimidation and stealing elections? Have you forgot ACORN already? or the black panthers who actually were engaged in voter intimidation that the black attorney general let go after the government had already won its case?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... _position1

--

Avak all I have to say is Obama and Democrats started this by proving that the ends justify the means. Why are you surprised people are willing to resort to violence after the bullshit that they just pushed through? They got the message, we can so we will. These guys are still pinheads for targetting police, but I don't blame them for rising up intending violence and yes they should be put in jail. At least the IRS bomber attacked the agency he had a beef with.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby avak » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:32 pm

That's what really gets me about the con messaging...the way the health care reform was passed is not new...

Image
The cliff notes version of the graph is that the Repubs have used reconciliation as a tactic pretty often recently...in pretty partisan fashion.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Tanras » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:19 am

I don't think it is a question of how often.

Reconcilliation is a budgetary measure and was never meant to be used to pass an agenda as broad as health care.

That said, because the House passed the Senate bill, dems are now trying to use reconcilliation on things that are more narrowly defined as budgetary. The other problem with reconcilliation is that it is far easier to repeal items passed through reconcilliation than things passed through the primary bill writing process.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:15 pm

What Tanras said. Plus, the level of public opposition to the agenda. Plus the bribes and the general win with any means necessary. The way this legislation was passed was disgusting and Obama's attempt to disassociate himself from the "ugly process" upon when he campaigned he was going to fix and create transparency is disingenuous at best.

--

also sarvis regarding the questionable character of the woman from your story and basically the judge "finding fact" that contradicted her statements. I forgot to zing Clinton for having an affair with an intern while he's in office and lied about it to congress; essentially he said I didn't have sex with that girl and congress and the american people had a finding of fact to the contrary. lets not kid ourselves that Democrats are any less truthy. Nor that Democrats won't register people who don't qualify to vote (like non resident students and illegal immigrants) or gerrymander with the best of them.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Sarvis » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:21 pm

kiryan wrote:What Tanras said. Plus, the level of public opposition to the agenda. Plus the bribes and the general win with any means necessary. The way this legislation was passed was disgusting and Obama's attempt to disassociate himself from the "ugly process" upon when he campaigned he was going to fix and create transparency is disingenuous at best.

--

also sarvis regarding the questionable character of the woman from your story and basically the judge "finding fact" that contradicted her statements. I forgot to zing Clinton for having an affair with an intern while he's in office and lied about it to congress; essentially he said I didn't have sex with that girl and congress and the american people had a finding of fact to the contrary. lets not kid ourselves that Democrats are any less truthy.



Really Kiryan? "But Clinton...?"

Tell me, please, how much effect banging an intern has on Democracy?

Oh, right. NONE WHATSOEVER. I laughed then that Clinton getting a BJ was such a big deal, and I'm crying NOW that your comparing that to attempting to steal an election, while simultaneously bitching about our elected officials not representing us.

Fucking shit...


Nor that Democrats won't register people who don't qualify to vote (like non resident students and illegal immigrants) or gerrymander with the best of them.

[/quote]

There's a difference between not registering people who are unqualified to vote, and what the Republicans did. Let me spell it out for you: They kept people from voting who WERE QUALIFIED to vote. See the difference there? You want to bitch about our representation, but Republicans don't even want to let us pick a representative!
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Ragorn » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:17 pm

Kiryan, there was a time when I appreciated your posts as an interesting window into your thought processes. However, lately you've slid away from any semblance of logic or reason, and you've taken up a program of very selective recollection, anecdotal evidence, mudslinging, slippery slope to the point of hyperbole, and outright falsification of facts. You used to be interesting. Now, you're not even arguing anymore, you're just shitting all over the board.

I'm sorry you're so angry that the majority of Americans told your political party to get fucked. You're in the minority. This is America, love it or leave it. Remember that? If you don't like the government, fuck off.

Also, be very, very careful about posting threats of violence. We live in an age where today's angry internet toughguy is on tomorrow's news because he tried to blow up a school. I know you think you're on some moral jihad or something, but you're toeing a very dangerous line. Don't get yourself in trouble because you posted on some internet forum that you were planning on staging a violent protest over fucking health care reform.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:13 pm

outright falsification of facts? how do you figure. show me a poll that says american's support this healthcare reform, that americans support the way healthcare reform was passed. I've seen polls that say americans want the healthcare system reformed... I want it reformed, but none that show support for THIS healthcare reform.

I haven't posted any threats of violence. I've specifically stated that while I support those who decide that violence is their only recourse left, I am personally not able to choose that path for myself due to my responsibilities. I really don't think it can be any clearer than that despite Sarvis' stupid don't hurt hannah post. If I was going to go Tim McVeigh on the USA, I wouldn't be posting flaming rhetoric on a public BBS where the government could read it easily and where I might offend people enough to have them self righteously report me especially after the democratic adminsitration in power specifically told the american people they would be stepping up their activities against domestic extremists just after Obama took office.

There is a point where people decide revolution is the proper course. There will be some who are on the front edge, and those that come around as well as those who will never support it. However, most people do support violence in ideology and speech if they believe it is justified a few of them will actually take up arms. Public opinion with regards to the war on terror after 9/11 is proof.

I'm going on record saying I think its justifiable today. I won't personally be involved in any violence or "materially support" it, but I won't condemn those who do.

Republicans lost the election fair and square, however this clearly crosses a line. Do you want to go on record saying healthcare reform was passed responsibly and tell me how proud you are of how Obama and the Democrats pulled this off? I wasn't proud of the republican congress shutting down the federal government in 95, it was despicable. I'm not proud of the collosal waste of time the monica lewinsky scandal was. Are you proud of what your party is doing has done to the poltiical landscape? Do you expect the GOP to just roll over and play dead? If Democrats had actually reached out and governed from the center, we would have the change Obama promised. No, Obama and the Democrats charged a very leftist course and said we don't need you, support us or we'll just do whatever we want anyway and when Scott Brown got elected they said now we'll just win by any and all means necessary.

On the other hand, I've been considering backtracking and just going with the flow because I'm not really happy with where I am today. I don't like being this angry and pissed off. As a Christian it really doesn't matter what government you live under so why am I putting so much energy into worrying whether I'm forced to buy health insurance, stop drinking soda ect. None of this stuff is really important in the grand scheme of things and I'm probably taking it to the point of idolatry. Man I really hate being regulated by the government.

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avak, Republican use of reconciliation differs quite a bit from reconciliation use in this manner. On major, ground breaking legislation the score is democrats 1, republicans 0. This is unprecedented. I also find it hillarious that the bipartisian gang of 14 banded together to disarm the nuclear option in the late bush years, but now democrats have fully embraced it as a valid viable proper and legitimate tactic. I was really happy about that development over the fight of nominees because reconciliation is tyranny of the majority while a filibuster forces a more mainstream perspective.
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby Todrael » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:23 pm

kiryan wrote:If Democrats had actually reached out and governed from the center, we would have the change Obama promised.

You lie!
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Re: Politicans to American people, calm down?

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:24 pm

Ragorn wrote:
kiryan wrote:Show me where a majority of people support the healthcare bill. Every poll I've seen says more people are against it that for it. If it was 70% for healthcare, I wouldn't be half as pissed off. But when Democracy goes bad, someone has to take it back. Thats the purpose of the 2nd amendment to protect our freedom from the federal government. Its well documented if you care to read about it directly from the founding fathers.

If only you'd gotten as up in arms about the Patriot Act and other Republican-sponsored legislation that attacked your freedoms much more directly than the fucking health care bill.


I have never supported the patriot bill. I think it was woefully irresponsible of Bush to engage in two wars without the necessary reduction in spending (guns and butter). I hate that the republicans were responsible for growing government intrustion through this and NCLB. I hate the so called homeland security department / secret service / kgb whatever you want to call it. Bush really screwed America over in these regards. He took dictatorial powers in the name of national security interests. Obama is now continuing by asserting even more control over our daily existence with healthcare reform (forcing us to be healthy) and powers over the economy. I was irritated and alarmed at what Bush did, but security is primarily around protection. I am outright scared by Obama's assertions that government is responsible for every aspect of your existence including your health and job.

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