Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

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teflor the ranger
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Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Thu May 20, 2010 7:41 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world ... tml?ref=us

There are two Americas. The America Obama supports, and the America Obama sides with Mexico over.

Your president at work.
Disoputlip
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Disoputlip » Thu May 20, 2010 8:10 pm

I totally agree.

Mrs. McCain would have kicked the little girl and her illigal mother back to where they belong.
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Corth » Thu May 20, 2010 8:29 pm

Yes, anyone in the US illegally should be kicked out forthwith. A country has a right to secure it's borders and determine who is allowed to enter and who isn't. If you violated the country's laws by entering, you have no right to stay. Moreover law enforcement would have a duty to enforce those laws by rounding up illegals and deporting them.

That all being said, I'm not sure why we don't allow a LOT more legal immigration. I'm not talking about allowing the nation to be overwhelmed with immigrants who do not share our values -such as the case in many European countries that have let in too many Muslims. But people who share our values should be allowed to immigrate in greater numbers. I would allow in (legally) a lot more people from latin america, for instance, who are generally Christian, hard workers, and family oriented.
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Sarvis » Thu May 20, 2010 8:48 pm

Corth wrote:Yes, anyone in the US illegally should be kicked out forthwith. A country has a right to secure it's borders and determine who is allowed to enter and who isn't. If you violated the country's laws by entering, you have no right to stay. Moreover law enforcement would have a duty to enforce those laws by rounding up illegals and deporting them.

That all being said, I'm not sure why we don't allow a LOT more legal immigration. I'm not talking about allowing the nation to be overwhelmed with immigrants who do not share our values -such as the case in many European countries that have let in too many Muslims. But people who share our values should be allowed to immigrate in greater numbers. I would allow in (legally) a lot more people from latin america, for instance, who are generally Christian, hard workers, and family oriented.


Corth, WE don't share our values...
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Corth » Fri May 21, 2010 3:23 am

That's true. You are lazy with an oversized sense of entitlement. If you were applying to immigrate into this country I wouldn't want you.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri May 21, 2010 4:51 am

Yes, we want your seekers of life. Not seekers of welfare.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun May 23, 2010 4:21 am

teflor the ranger wrote:Yes, we want your seekers of life. Not seekers of welfare.

Sorry, this is not to imply that Sarvis is a seeker of welfare. I was speaking to more of a general sense of things, rather than responding or augmenting Corth's statement specifically.
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Disoputlip » Sun May 23, 2010 7:23 am

It is a complicated issue, mainly because US don't work without all the immigrants.

But it could be an interesting thought experiment what would happen if the borders where opened. Would the entire Mexican population move to america? Would some move back?

In europe a big change happened when the eastern european countries became full members of the EU. But it is not like entire Poland have moved here. Some also come here a few years to work, and then move back again. I would say all in all that we have benefittet from the opening of the borders towards the east.

Downsides include a few more homeless bums that have come mainly from Rumania to seek the luck here, and more unsafe working conditions because some construction workers now have to compete with people that don't care about safety if they e.g. are working with a roof.
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Corth » Sun May 23, 2010 1:37 pm

Upside is lower labor costs for menial work and thus more cash savings for your average Dane. Considering that you have concluded overall the opening up of borders to the East was a net benefit, I think that perhaps you can be saved. We'll make a capitalist out of you yet Dis!
teflor the ranger
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon May 24, 2010 1:01 am

Things improved in eastern europe after the establishment of a larger economy that included them, thus there was little reason for many to move away - particularly when things were improving in their home country.

The problem with any area merging with the United States is the incredible difference and distance between the US and any economy that would merge with it.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb- ... OL:ROM:GRC

A large factor that affects the economies of nations is stability. European nations were not permitted to enter the EU without meeting fairly stringent economic standards. Any state that merged with the United States would see some significant rocking of the boat.
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Disoputlip » Mon May 24, 2010 8:59 am

The graph should show it per citizen instead I think. Because else it just shows that the US is a big country.

A lot of european countries have higher income per citizen than the US. just like it differs widely between poor and rich states within the US. Then again, in the rich places like NY housing cost a lot so you need more money just to live there.

It could be interesting to see a graph of income per citizen, where illigal immigrants where included.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon May 24, 2010 1:41 pm

Disoputlip wrote:The graph should show it per citizen instead I think. Because else it just shows that the US is a big country.

A lot of european countries have higher income per citizen than the US. just like it differs widely between poor and rich states within the US. Then again, in the rich places like NY housing cost a lot so you need more money just to live there.

It could be interesting to see a graph of income per citizen, where illigal immigrants where included.

Here you go, illegal immigrants included (reference: US illegal immigrants are approximately 10% of the population. yeah. 10 whole freaking percent). Don't forget that this doesn't take into account how much of the income is paid to taxes. Also, GDP is not PPP - remember that a VW Jetta is $17k in the US, where it is $31k in the UK.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb- ... EU:GBR:CHE
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby Disoputlip » Mon May 24, 2010 11:31 pm

Cool graph. I selected some countries to see if the collaboration is visible:

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb- ... NK:POL:MEX

And it is almost scary so much both Denmark and Polan have grown after the EU have expanded. It is this kind of benefit I'm speculating US+Mexico could get if the borders got more open.

I know the graph don't include the current crisis, but I doubt it has hit europe harder than the states.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon May 24, 2010 11:47 pm

Disoputlip wrote:Cool graph. I selected some countries to see if the collaboration is visible:

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb- ... NK:POL:MEX

And it is almost scary so much both Denmark and Polan have grown after the EU have expanded. It is this kind of benefit I'm speculating US+Mexico could get if the borders got more open.

I know the graph don't include the current crisis, but I doubt it has hit europe harder than the states.

There are two things that cast a doubtful light on this:

First, Mexico doesn't meet just about any of the standards that are required for entrance to the EU.

Second, the US and Mexico already have a free trade agreement.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Obama Sides with Mexico Over a US State

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue May 25, 2010 6:54 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05 ... migration/

Now a democratic congress joins with Mexico in denouncing a US state.

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