Real Reason Some Can't Afford Healthcare

[teflor the ranger]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... Local+News)

California welfare recipients withdrew $1.8 million at casino ATMs over eight months

California welfare recipients using state-issued debit cards withdrew more than $1.8 million in taxpayer cash on casino floors between October 2009 and last month, state officials said Thursday.

[Corth]

You gotta be in it to win it!

[Ragorn]

Casinos are a well-documented method often championed by republican governors in conservative states to set up gambling systems which take advantage of the lower class.

[teflor the ranger]

Advocating liberty isn't taking advantage. I hold the individuals responsible.

[kiryan]

I hate state sponsored gambling as a revenue source. Not casinos, but state lotteries and scratchers. It is a regressive tax as Ragorn mentions which is bad in general. How did Republicans suddenly get caught holding the gambling support bag? Republicans have traditionally opposed state run gambling. As far as privately run casinos, thats their business.

I agree with teflor, its not the stores fault for selling you alcohol, its your fault for getting drunk off your ass and running someone over.

[Corth]

The lottery is basically a tax on stupidity - and as far as I am concerned there are worse things you can tax. To the extent that it tends to equalize the tax burden by vis-a-vis the rich and the poor, I am in favor of expanding upon it.

[kiryan]

statistically it is a tax on the poor and stupid as you mention, its also an addiction for many. However its far worse than that. It exploits people's desires to get rich. Their irrational belief that they will be the lucky one or that they can get somethign for nothing. I can't support something whose basis is exploiting folks without self discipline.

How is that different than credit cards and folks irrational belief that they can just keep buying and they'll pay it off someday? You actually get a product, you always get it sooner than you could've without credit, and you have some protections through bankruptcy.

while it does help equalize the tax rates or rather have the poor help contribute towards the cost of caring for them, wouldn't it be a lot better if we just taxed the money away instead of engaging in all this chicanery to pilfer it?

[Sarvis]

I can't support something whose basis is exploiting folks without self discipline.

So are you denouncing our entire economy?

[Corth]

wouldn't it be a lot better if we just taxed the money away instead of engaging in all this chicanery to pilfer it?

Yes, ideally the poor would pay some traditional income based taxes so at least they have skin in the game. Easy to ask for more and more when others are paying for it. But it wouldn't be politically expedient to try and increase taxes on the poor. It would make you look (omg) heartless. So as far as I can tell the only way they can do so is through 'chicanery' like the lottery. Unfortunately, I don't think that most people losing money on the lottery realize that they are being taxed.

[teflor the ranger]

I can't support something whose basis is exploiting folks without self discipline.

So are you denouncing our entire economy?

He's talking about the government, jackass.

[Sarvis]

So it's ok for a corporation to exploit peoples' lack of self-discipline?

[Corth]

No, McDonalds should be outlawed. Burger King too. And all restaurants should become Taco Bell.

[Sarvis]

No, McDonalds should be outlawed. Burger King too. And all restaurants should become Taco Bell.

That I can agree with. Mmmm... Taco Bell.

[teflor the ranger]

So it's ok for a corporation to exploit peoples' lack of self-discipline?

To a certain degree as permissible by law. The government as an entity should not be in the same business as free enterprise.

[Sarvis]

Why? The government isn't forcing anything, in fact... as far as "taxation" this would be one of the more honest and forthright ways a government could tax. It's fully optional! Even a libertarian can't call THAT theft!

[teflor the ranger]

Because government wields the monopoly of violence. Those who hold the sole overall use of force should not also wield the use of the market. It's a concept called a separation of duties, which helps to prevent conflicts of interest.

Basically, you want the guys with all the guns to stay out of the market, lest you become a competitor to the government (not pretty).

[Sarvis]

Mercenaries work for corporations too. In fact didn't BP hire a bunch of guys with guns to try and keep reporters out of the gulf? Anyone with money can have guns.

So where is this "monopoly of violence" you're talking about?

[Pril]

Mercenaries work for corporations too. In fact didn't BP hire a bunch of guys with guns to try and keep reporters out of the gulf? Anyone with money can have guns.

So where is this "monopoly of violence" you're talking about?

There's a small difference between mercenaries and the US Army.

[teflor the ranger]

Mercenaries work for corporations too. In fact didn't BP hire a bunch of guys with guns to try and keep reporters out of the gulf? Anyone with money can have guns.

So where is this "monopoly of violence" you're talking about?

Because they work at the pleasure of the United States Government. This is pretty basic stuff, Sarvis. Do yourself a favor and read a book.

[Sarvis]

So the government shouldn't tax traditionally because it's forced. They shouldn't tax optionally by selling a "product" because they're in competition with corporations.

You just don't want government, then. Earth to Teflor: The moment we don't have a government, it will be replaced by a despot who had a lot of money. My prediction: Steve Jobs. He's got the cash AND the totalitarian mindset to do the job!

[teflor the ranger]

So the government shouldn't tax traditionally because it's forced. They shouldn't tax optionally by selling a "product" because they're in competition with corporations.

You just don't want government, then. Earth to Teflor: The moment we don't have a government, it will be replaced by a despot who had a lot of money. My prediction: Steve Jobs. He's got the cash AND the totalitarian mindset to do the job!

Could you be any more full of bullshit? Keep making shit up, see where that gets you. While you're at it, find ONE quote of mine where I've said that the government shouldn't tax.

You are bordering on disingenuous, held back only by the idea that you might just be merely incompetent.

[Ashiwi]

[quote="teflor the ranger"]To a certain degree as permissible by law. [quote]

Unless you push deregulation and allow them to prey on the stupid until the economy breaks, that is. Admittedly, those people weren't the ones buying scratchers; they were the ones buying into rigged investment schemes. At least the scratchers are slightly more honest about their longshot odds.

So "stupid" people buy scratchers. "Intelligent" people still have millions to sit on after their wacky investment schemes bankrupt all the people who made them rich.

Looking back on it all, some of the big investment firms really start to resemble large pyramid schemes, don't they?

[teflor the ranger]

So "stupid" people buy scratchers. "Intelligent" people still have millions to sit on after their wacky investment schemes bankrupt all the people who made them rich.

Looking back on it all, some of the big investment firms really start to resemble large pyramid schemes, don't they?

Actually, Ash, they really are all just stupid.