move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Life, the universe, and everything.
Forum rules
- No personal attacks against players or staff members - please be civil!
- No posting of mature images/links, keep content SFW. If it's NSFW, don't post it on these forums.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby kiryan » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:30 pm

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010 ... /?hpt=Sbin

basically start school later because kids are sleepy and they'll learn better and be healthier. It also makes a pre-emptive strike on the more logical solution, send kids to bed earlier, by saying there are biological reasons why adolescents naturally fall asleep later.

bullshit, if kids aren't getting enough sleep, parents are to blame for letting them stay up too late.
Botef
Sojourner
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Eastern Washington
Contact:

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Botef » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:01 pm

Bullshit? I dunno about that. I went to bed early all the time in high school and it didn't make a lick of difference about how tired I felt the next morning. My first period classes were always rough regardless of the number of hours of sleep I got.

I don't see why your so worked up about this...would it really be that bad if you moved the school day one hour ahead?
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:06 pm

kiryan wrote:bullshit, if kids aren't getting enough sleep, parents are to blame for letting them stay up too late.


Spoken like a kid who didn't immediately turn on a light the moment the parents went downstairs or into the other room. Or like a kid who didn't have thin walls and had to listen to the TV until his parents went to bed anyway.

Doesn't matter, really. You're ignoring facts in favor of baseless assumptions. A study was done, must be wrong. It's your entire approach to life. You were probably too tired to learn anything in your first period science classes or something...
Adriorn Darkcloak
Sojourner
Posts: 1292
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:06 pm

Hell, I wouldn't mind waking up a little later before going to school either. But I agree with Kiryan, it's not start time as much as bedtime for many of the first period sleepers. Fact, as a teacher. Going to bed at 1am (as many of them do) is the problem.
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:08 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Hell, I wouldn't mind waking up a little later before going to school either. But I agree with Kiryan, it's not start time as much as bedtime for many of the first period sleepers. Fact, as a teacher. Going to bed at 1am (as many of them do) is the problem.


Fact: You can't force someone to go to sleep. If you could, billions of insomniacs would love to get your number.
Botef
Sojourner
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Eastern Washington
Contact:

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Botef » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:16 pm

We are talking about 30 minutes...Do you think going to bed 30 minutes earlier would have the same impact as the results of this study?
Adriorn Darkcloak
Sojourner
Posts: 1292
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:26 pm

If you raise kids to go to bed at a time so they can get 8-10 hours of sleep at night, this isn't an issue. Studies also show that when kids are raised to sleep those hours, there is a huge drop in the chances of obesity, and some other disorders/issues drop as well.

These aren't insomniacs Sarvis. These are kids that go to sleep late because they got home at 9PM from playing sports and then had to study. These are kids who were up till 1AM online/playing WoW or CoD. Those are the two most frequent issues with my students. Not insomnia.

It's not about an extra 30 minutes at night Botef, it's about an extra 3 hours a night, each day of the week. While the study's obvious results indicate a positive, it has no long-term study to back it up. What you'll end up getting is kids that know they can sleep an extra 30 minutes, and over time just go to bed 30 minutes later.

Side note: also remember, the reason for the early start time to school is to give parents a chance to get to work on time. Not everyone can afford/wants to bus their kids...which just means they have to wake up even earlier depending on where they live.
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:38 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:If you raise kids to go to bed at a time so they can get 8-10 hours of sleep at night, this isn't an issue. Studies also show that when kids are raised to sleep those hours, there is a huge drop in the chances of obesity, and some other disorders/issues drop as well.


Yes, and your point?

These aren't insomniacs Sarvis. These are kids that go to sleep late because they got home at 9PM from playing sports and then had to study.


I'm glad you know every kid in America personally.

Those are the two most frequent issues with my students. Not insomnia.


No, the issue is that you think they'd just magically go to sleep because their parents tell them to.

It's not about an extra 30 minutes at night Botef, it's about an extra 3 hours a night, each day of the week. While the study's obvious results indicate a positive, it has no long-term study to back it up. What you'll end up getting is kids that know they can sleep an extra 30 minutes, and over time just go to bed 30 minutes later.


They are already going to sleep that late. You don't just magically go to sleep because you lay in bed.
Kindi
Sojourner
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:42 am

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Kindi » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:48 pm

amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:43 am

how about make it gym first period to get some exercise into those kids, not only that it would help to battle child hood obesity cause your body burns fat better in the morning
amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:45 am

Sarvis wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Hell, I wouldn't mind waking up a little later before going to school either. But I agree with Kiryan, it's not start time as much as bedtime for many of the first period sleepers. Fact, as a teacher. Going to bed at 1am (as many of them do) is the problem.


Fact: You can't force someone to go to sleep. If you could, billions of insomniacs would love to get your number.



But you can train your body to sleep better and insomnia usually has some psychological issues behind it
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Sarvis » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:13 am

amena wolfsnarl wrote:
Sarvis wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Hell, I wouldn't mind waking up a little later before going to school either. But I agree with Kiryan, it's not start time as much as bedtime for many of the first period sleepers. Fact, as a teacher. Going to bed at 1am (as many of them do) is the problem.


Fact: You can't force someone to go to sleep. If you could, billions of insomniacs would love to get your number.



But you can train your body to sleep better and insomnia usually has some psychological issues behind it


I really believe puberty is one of those psychological issues, actually. I'd be willing to bet that adolescents are hardwired to stay up later. In tribal life they probably picked up the night watch and such, so the adults could sleep and be productive in the morning.

I have nothing whatever to support that theory, but it makes a certain amount of sense.

Either way, ignoring this study is simply ignoring science and learning. It's something we've learned that could improve life for people and help our populace become better educated. You might as well not use the light bulb because you don't want to believe that electrons move along a wire.
Adriorn Darkcloak
Sojourner
Posts: 1292
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:19 am

Sarvis wrote:I'm glad you know every kid in America personally.


I know my students, Sarvis. Very few tell me they "couldn't fall asleep". While some do, the number is really low when compared to all the others. There's usually a reason along the lines of what I stated before.

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Those are the two most frequent issues with my students. Not insomnia.


Sarvis wrote:No, the issue is that you think they'd just magically go to sleep because their parents tell them to.


No, the issue is they'd sleep well if their parents had raised them well. You keep arguing about insomnia as if that was the reason for all teens. From what I've been able to find, we're talking between 20-30% of teens. Not 80-100%. And yes, it does occur during adolescence due to puberty. But again, 20-30% of teens. Not 80-100%.

Sarvis wrote:They are already going to sleep that late. You don't just magically go to sleep because you lay in bed.


Because they are doing things that their parents poorly consented to or are unsupervised. If they were raised well, this wouldn't be an issue. And yes, if you know bedtime is at 9-10pm, and are in bed at that time, chances are you'll get more sleep than staying up online; even if it takes you an hour to fall asleep, you'll get more sleep.

Sarvis wrote:Either way, ignoring this study is simply ignoring science and learning. It's something we've learned that could improve life for people and help our populace become better educated.


No, using this study is putting a band-aid on the real issue: bad parenting. If you want to improve life for people and help our populace become better educated then you fix the problem: bad parents. Put in classes to educate new or future parents as to the do's and dont's of parenting, raising children, etc. But of course, many people refuse to accept this because it "infringes on the rights of parents" or "because there is no one good way to raise children", etc, etc. If I'm educated, and I see my teen suffers from poor sleeping habits, I'm going to try to figure out why, be it social, biological, or parental, and seek medical or professional help. Not "hey, wake up later!".

EDIT: And Amena made a good point: fix the problem, the individual student(s) with the sleep issues.
Pril
Sojourner
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:01 am

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Pril » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:11 am

From my own experience growing up my parents had me in bed by 9 or 10 every night with the lights off. At first it was annoying then I started to sleep closer and closer to the time I went to bed. Then I started mudding and was staying up til 2, 3, or 4 :)
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Dalar » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:56 am

From personal experience, I use to stay up watching TV, such as Get Smart (back in grade school) to Star Treks in high school. My city had TNG, DS9, and Voyager throughout junior high to college. at 10-11 slot.

I also didn't exercise much when I was younger, I didn't calorie count, and I ate unhealthy shit like at least 4 servings of juice a day.

1. Don't put a TV in a kid's room.
2. P.E. should live up to it's name. PHYSICAL EDUCATION. You aren't teaching kids anything by forcing them to run a timed mile then have them sit around all day. Or teach them how to play sports and half-ass it the rest of a period. They should be teaching kids important topics such as: 1. What calories are, what are the average calories in their favorite foods, why eating like 4-5k empty calories is making you fat etc.
3. Move school to 8:30-9. I always believed 8-5 was to train kids to integrate into a "8-5" world. There is no "8-5" world. The world is whatever people make it when they are adults.
4. Encourage more exercise. People always wonder why Asians are so damn skinny. Sometimes it's genes. You ever been to Asia? They have to walk a ton. I basically ate anytime I saw food in Taipei and Tokyo for 3 weeks straight and I gained 4 lbs total. I'm talking about being full almost all the time and I only gained 4 lb. I can gain 4 lb if I did the same thing, but was sitting at my desk gaming or working.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:11 pm

Parents should do a better job raising their kids, being a part of their lives, setting boundaries, and structuring their environments.

But I think school starts to early in many places. I also think it lasts too long and reaches too far into the lives of children through repetitive, unnecessary homework.
Dugmaren
Staff Member - Areas
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby Dugmaren » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:31 pm

When I was in elementary with repetitive unnecessary homework, if we could do the first 10 questions before the end of class and get 'm all right - we got to skip the next 40. It was pretty much the best rule ever.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: move school back 30 minutes because kids are tired?

Postby teflor the ranger » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:19 pm

Dugmaren wrote:When I was in elementary with repetitive unnecessary homework, if we could do the first 10 questions before the end of class and get 'm all right - we got to skip the next 40. It was pretty much the best rule ever.

That sounds downright productive. Public schooling would have been much more interesting.

Return to “T2 General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests