The Journolist

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Adriorn Darkcloak
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The Journolist

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:18 pm

Man, I'm surprised the Journolist hasn't been brought up here yet. I guess it was being kept secret or something.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:15 pm

I'm not sure what there is to talk about. It's pretty obvious from the beginning that liberals, who seek to change America's core values, would obviously favor working in fields like journalism.

As the liberalism establishment moves forward and makes inroads against American core values, you will see the Conservatives striking back with the likes of women, crazy old people, colored folks... oh wait, that already happened. And then the conservatives will hit back in the places where liberalism took its initial roots like education... no, that's happening right now in Texas with the state textbooks... and then maybe conservatives will hit back in the me.... ok, Fox News and the Wall Street Journal.

The liberal establishment has already pushed too far, to the point where they consider it a valid strategy to perpetuate a lie. I just hope it doesn't take the conservatives in this country too long to hit them back and keep them honest.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:03 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:to the point where they consider it a valid strategy to perpetuate a lie.


No no, it's called "catapult the propaganda."
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:45 am

Sarvis wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:to the point where they consider it a valid strategy to perpetuate a lie.


No no, it's called "catapult the propaganda."

Thanks for the correction Sarvis. Keepin' me honest.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby kiryan » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:11 am

Teflor wrote:I'm not sure what there is to talk about. It's pretty obvious from the beginning that liberals, who seek to change America's core values, would obviously favor working in fields like journalism


and teachers and professors in academia (because they can hoist their viewpoints on a captive audience) and research groups (who get called in as "experts" to make policy recommendations). I started a thread sometime this past year on an article that I read that basically said college professors are liberal because conservatives perceive professors to be liberal and don't apply. The theory was that we seek to be in environments of relative homogeny so perception becomes a trend.

Another article I read (I'm pretty sure it was different) discussed some research that indicated having "geeky" stuff in an environment had an effect on women applying/accepting positions. For example, a math classroom full of star trek stuff resulted in a lower chance a female candidate would enroll in the class/program. A computer job interview conducted in an office with scifi decorum (X files I want to believe type posters) decreased the chance a woman would accept the job by something like 25%.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:05 pm

I love that Liberals can be blamed for a conspiracy based on the simple fact that conservatives just don't enter certain fields. If most professors are liberal, it's because in general conservatives don't want to teach. Your own damn faults.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:27 am

They don't enter those fields because they are incredibly hostile to conservatives. A friend of mine is a conservative and a teacher. She says she would fear for her future in her field if she did something like put "Conservative" on her political views on Facebook.

These fields are self-selecting on the basis of tribal thinking. Like everything else human.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:37 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:They don't enter those fields because they are incredibly hostile to conservatives. A friend of mine is a conservative and a teacher. She says she would fear for her future in her field if she did something like put "Conservative" on her political views on Facebook.

These fields are self-selecting on the basis of tribal thinking. Like everything else human.


Assuming there is any validity at all to what you've said, conservatives have done THAT to themselves too by attempting to utterly demonize Liberals. You can't do everything possible to paint your political "opponents" as enemies of the country and still expect those "opponents" to treat you fairly.

Then again, I doubt there is any truth to what you've said... and so what if she doesn't list her political view on Facebook? I don't think anyone I know does. The only idiots that try to make Facebook political, btw, are the Conservatives at work who need to proselytize and bitch about Obama every couple days.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Ashiwi » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:45 pm

You know how the media and social networking is now being used as a weapon against Obama? Guess what's going to happen when Republicans get back into the White House this next go-round. The same tools/weapons are going to be pulled out by the other side, and the people who are using them against Obama now will be decrying the dirty fighting and lies of the other side. It's just a scrimmage where the offense/defense switch sides, and sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

As for Kiryan's observations ... If I was being interviewed for a good position in a company with a good reputation in an office that contained Sci-Fi posters, I'd JUMP at the position!

I wonder about the statistics in whatever study you're referencing, Neo. Fewer women apply for these positions as a whole. When the positions are filled, fewer still are offered to women. Is it possible that the discrepancy is simply noticed to a greater degree because of the smaller pool of candidates you're working with? Are the posters of strong male figures in jumpsuits and Megan Fox in thong-style jean shorts? Are there any female characters at all in the posters?

Since the world of science fiction has long been male-dominated, born of their fantasies, built by their fantasies, populated by their fantasies, it can be difficult for a woman to find a place of strength and security within it. The thought of working in a serious intellectual position with a group of men who embrace what can be considered to be a less mature culture can be daunting for women who want to find equal footing without the trappings of their gender standing in the way. While women are beginning to gain ground in the science fiction environment, it's still heavily a world of strong-jawed male captains and scantily clad slavegirls. Professional women tend to look for a more professional environment because the scouring of gender identity from the workplace gives a (sometimes false) stronger impression of potential for equality.

After all, if it's a guy's office, how likely is he to have a Voyager poster most predominant?

I'd love to see that study, if you have a link.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:01 pm

Ashiwi wrote:
After all, if it's a guy's office, how likely is he to have a Voyager poster most predominant?


Well, Voyager just wasn't very good... but you'd be pretty likely to see this:

Image
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Re: The Journolist

Postby kiryan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:34 pm

Heres a couple articles that kinda relate.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/ ... r-science/

http://news.discovery.com/human/nerds-w ... ience.html

--

Sarvis, I can blame liberals for dominating the field because they make it a hostile environment towards conservatives. Still conservatives should aggressively pursue those kinds of jobs too. I mean if it worked to take over the supreme court, it just might work in academia too.

but, I will say they were smarter as a whole to get into unions, government and academia. Part of the reason I'm so pissed off at unions is I know anyone working at a union will retire better than I will and I'm paying for it in the price of everything from government to cars. If I was actually smart, I would've joined a union and assembled cars for the last 16 years.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:47 pm

kiryan wrote:Heres a couple articles that kinda relate.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/ ... r-science/

http://news.discovery.com/human/nerds-w ... ience.html

--

Sarvis, I can blame liberals for dominating the field because they make it a hostile environment towards conservatives.


Conservatives have made America a hostile environment towards Liberals for decades. But please, show some kind of evidence that college faculties are hostile towards conservatives.

Still conservatives should aggressively pursue those kinds of jobs too. I mean if it worked to take over the supreme court, it just might work in academia too.


So what you're saying is that Conservatives only take positions of leadership/power when handed them by superiors? And Liberals are the conspirators here?

If I was actually smart, I would've joined a union and assembled cars for the last 16 years.


That's a big "if."
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Ragorn » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:18 pm

Any article that has the phrase "liberal media bias" in the very first sentence is a conservatively-biased article that is not worth reading.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Kifle » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:45 pm

Sarvis wrote:
Ashiwi wrote:
After all, if it's a guy's office, how likely is he to have a Voyager poster most predominant?


Well, Voyager just wasn't very good... but you'd be pretty likely to see this:

Image


one, that deserves quoting. Two, kelly doesn't even want to know what I have hanging in my office.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:19 am

One very simple example is the national academy of sciences. Early last century, slightly less than half of the members held a belief in some sort of personal god. They were slightly in the minority at the time.

Today only 7% of NAS members that responded to a survey indicated a belief in a personal god. This trend has been more or less consistent throughout the period. New NAS members are selected by existing NAS members.

Individuals that seek to change the core values of other people will obviously gravitate to fields where they control the flow of information, control education, and control the way people think and feel.

Don't be stupid about this. People reward like minded individuals, there is no surprise at all what happened to journalism and education.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:05 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:Today only 7% of NAS members that responded to a survey indicated a belief in a personal god. This trend has been more or less consistent throughout the period. New NAS members are selected by existing NAS members.


A trend mirrored by the general population of the country. Face it, as science explains more things people find it harder to swallow a man walking on water or turning water into wine.

Plus unless you can show that "Do you believe in God" is one of the interview questions for the NAS, you're talking out of your ass. I sure as hell don't know what the religious beliefs of my coworkers are, except for the ones who keep proselytizing on Facebook.

Lastly, as Religion has done everything it can to demonize science in recent years those who ARE religious are less likely to choose scientific careers and AGAIN are weeding themselves out of that population.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:50 pm

Sarvis wrote:Lastly, as Religion has done everything it can to demonize science in recent years...


haha. Please elaborate.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:02 pm

Really don't feel like doing research today, so let me just pull a Teflor: "I shouldn't have to cite that the sky is blue, you can find this information easily yourself!"

(Notice you don't question HIS claim about the percentage of "true believers" in the National Academy of Science, though.)
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:45 pm

Sarvis wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:Today only 7% of NAS members that responded to a survey indicated a belief in a personal god. This trend has been more or less consistent throughout the period. New NAS members are selected by existing NAS members.


A trend mirrored by the general population of the country.

No.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Ragorn » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:01 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Lastly, as Religion has done everything it can to demonize science in recent years...


haha. Please elaborate.

Intelligent Design. Insisting that students be presented with an "alternate theory" which fails the most basic scentific scrutiny tests. In science class, no less. Because damn those "scientists" with their decades of empirical data.

Image
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:58 am

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Lastly, as Religion has done everything it can to demonize science in recent years...


haha. Please elaborate.


Sarvis wrote:Really don't feel like doing research today


Right. *wink*
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:05 am

Ragorn wrote:
Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Lastly, as Religion has done everything it can to demonize science in recent years...


haha. Please elaborate.


Intelligent Design. Insisting that students be presented with an "alternate theory" which fails the most basic scentific scrutiny tests. In science class, no less. Because damn those "scientists" with their decades of empirical data.


No, this does not demonize science. This seeks to present an "alternate theory", like you said, to be taught ALONG WITH evolutionary theory. Right or wrong, it does not demonize science. It might wish to present itself as science, when many might argue it is not. That is not the definition of demonize.

My request was more towards Sarvis, Ragorn, since he was the one who made the ludicrous and irrational statement.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:29 am

Adriorn, we all know you're smarter than this. Don't go down the Tef/Kiryan road and attempt to take every hyperbolic statement literally as a straw man so yo can win an argument.

The reality is that various Christian leaders call "science" into question because it threatens their beiefs and, therefore, their power.

Rags just gave you a clear example of that. ID has no scientific merit, but Christian leaders want that taught instead of biology. You can't do that and then blame Liberals for your children not going into science. You did it to yourselves, hyperbole or not.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:30 am

Sarvis wrote:Adriorn, we all know you're smarter than this. Don't go down the Tef/Kiryan road and attempt to take every hyperbolic statement literally as a straw man so yo can win an argument.

The reality is that various Christian leaders call "science" into question because it threatens their beiefs and, therefore, their power.

Rags just gave you a clear example of that. ID has no scientific merit, but Christian leaders want that taught instead of biology. You can't do that and then blame Liberals for your children not going into science. You did it to yourselves, hyperbole or not.


Yes to everything you said. I don't think they want it taught instead of science, I think they want it taught along with science. I could be wrong. I don't think they want it taught because they feel threatened, I think they want it taught also because they feel ignored. Regardless, that isn't demonizing.

Just please realize the statement I got from your post was complete hyperbole. Don't use it when it's not true. If there's ONE thing I'm always going to point out it is erroneous or slanderous statements against Religion. When they are true, hey...it's true. There are some pedophile priests. The Church HAS NOT done what it should against them.

Just leave out the non-essential, untrue, hyperbolic statements. :)
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:11 pm

Ragorn wrote:Intelligent Design. Insisting that students be presented with an "alternate theory" which fails the most basic scentific scrutiny tests. In science class, no less. Because damn those "scientists" with their decades of empirical data.

Seeing as how intelligent design is simply the idea that our existence was created purposefully by an intelligent being or entity of some sort, how does it fail any basic scientific test? I get the feeling you're reaching deep into the pile of bullshit on this one.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:12 pm

Sarvis wrote:Plus unless you can show that "Do you believe in God" is one of the interview questions for the NAS, you're talking out of your ass.

Bullshit. You're fucking retarded and this is irrelevant, talking out of your ass is something you excel at, whether it's not knowing what a shovel can do against a tank or how many Canadians are coming over the border seeking healthcare.
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Re: The Journolist

Postby Sarvis » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:49 pm

Yeah, ok... back to ignore Teflor mode. Sorry about that guys, I had gotten bored....
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Re: The Journolist

Postby teflor the ranger » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:08 am

Life is easier when you don't have anyone keeping you honest.

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