Introducing Toril 2.0

Lilira
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Postby Lilira » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:43 pm

How's about just wipe old non-quest gear?
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Postby Disoputlip » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:55 pm

not that I tihnk it should be a pay-pr-mud mud, but is there any diku code left?

Mobs don't say fido when they cast armor, and the only reason I sort of suspect it still is diku is because toril scrolls much slower than homeland.

Some others in this thread talked about faster scroll, is that where we are going? like homeland?
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Postby Corth » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:25 am

Lilira wrote:How's about just wipe old non-quest gear?


How about just wipe quest gear.. fighting for your gear should be encouraged. I never really understood why exactly we should be impresed by the guy who runs around the mud saying 'hi' to everyone like a moron.. :)

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Postby Thilindel » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:34 am

I wouldn't mind eq wipe on anything that isn't an annoying or difficult quested item. Kerns, greydawn, etc..some long assed quests. Fun, but oh so long.
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Postby Nilan » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:12 am

I do mind an equip and a pwipe

I for one do not have the time nor the energy in releveling or re gearing my character. It took long enough to do so as well as attain certain items i outfit RP my character in.

I began playing here and putting time in on this game, admist a busy work schedule rl schedule and other things, only because Shevy promissed no pwipe. Honestly after all the pwipes this game had it got prety discouraging for me and it is honestly something im not going to put time invested in to again.

I just dont have it, nor the energy.

Nilan
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Postby Gruy » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:47 am

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:I still think this is excellent, but I still beleive pay to play is the only way we can really get the pbase up to former glory.



that would end this place if you had to pay to play hehe... no offense but the pay to play games they have out now such as wow or eq2 is where i would go if they started charging here..

good to hear all the changes shev cant wait to try playing again once they come in..
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Postby flib » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:04 am

! to pay to play- dude. it's one of the greatest things about this mud. It is and never will be for profit. remember the old school agreement. said something like this was a hobby for the coders and that they werent here to make money. with a pay to play I honestly think it would kill this mud.. squash kaput see ya.. never..

! to eq wipe..it took me about umm.. almost 4 years to get to a point where I felt like my character didnt have crap stuff.. if we wipe it all that work would have been for not. friggin 17 hours of my life were spent on my shoes :P that crap would piss me off if it was for nothing. heh. just like Nilan I just dont have the time nor the gumption to go through all that again. 100 + who list ftw!
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Postby Ruxur » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:36 pm

diku.

code.

cannot.

be.

used.

for.

profit.


why are we still talking about this?
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:50 pm

Eq wipe.

Nilan, if you can't put the time or energy in re-equipping a character after an eq wipe, then I guess you don't have the time to actively participate in a zone now. They are the same thing.

Without an eq wipe we'll be in the same bored out of our skull boat as we are now in a matter of months. Even with the new features mentioned, the main goal here is to acquire equipment and grow in strength....if we already have the uber equipment, where is the challenge in trying the new game mechanics?
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:23 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:Eq wipe.

Nilan, if you can't put the time or energy in re-equipping a character after an eq wipe, then I guess you don't have the time to actively participate in a zone now. They are the same thing.

Without an eq wipe we'll be in the same bored out of our skull boat as we are now in a matter of months. Even with the new features mentioned, the main goal here is to acquire equipment and grow in strength....if we already have the uber equipment, where is the challenge in trying the new game mechanics?


Dunno, I have to call BS on the idea that if you don't have time to re-equip after a wipe you don't have the time now. That's total BS. I have the time to zone now, I choose not to, the mud doesn't interest me overly much right now. That's the difference. I more than have the time to participate in zones(done tia twice only though), I simply pick not to right now, and if they did an eqwipe, yeah. It might help, but it'd drive some people off. With the minimal pbase we have, regardless of the changes coming in, how many people would leave vs come back?
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Postby Lilira » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:06 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:Eq wipe.

Nilan, if you can't put the time or energy in re-equipping a character after an eq wipe, then I guess you don't have the time to actively participate in a zone now. They are the same thing.

Without an eq wipe we'll be in the same bored out of our skull boat as we are now in a matter of months. Even with the new features mentioned, the main goal here is to acquire equipment and grow in strength....if we already have the uber equipment, where is the challenge in trying the new game mechanics?


Heh. I have time to zone on ocassion.. but if I didn't have gear I've meticulously gathered over the years, I wouldn't. I also know what a PITA it is to put together a nice outfit that translates well into RP as well as zonage. The true challenge will be in LEARNING the new game mechanics and learning them well. That should keep everyone busy (yes even the people who have mastered the game in general) while new zones etc. come in. The challenge is the change in content and always has been. I'm all for the disappearance of some of the really old stuff that noone does anymore and has no shop sale value or quest requirements. Either that or just add a price vaule to everything. *laugh* That at least would give us the option to sell the stuff instead of dumping it on the ground.

Lets wait and see what things look like before we continue screaming for wipes of one sort or another. As the new stuff is introduced, eq changes might come in as well. *shrug*
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You group-say 'my chars will carry the component on them if I can.'
Inama group-says 'hopefully they'll have some sort of volume discounts on ress items for people like you'
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Inama group-says 'they could at least implement frequent dier miles'

Suzalize group-says 'oh, eya's over weight i bet'
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Postby Vigis » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:12 pm

An EQ wipe would just translate into Spob getting hit every single boot.

Hell, you are already naked...
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:33 pm

Vigis wrote:An EQ wipe would just translate into Spob getting hit every single boot.

Hell, you are already naked...


Nurpy is naked, because halfling warriors aren't all the rage atm. Even when I was decked out in hps and saves, when the areas start flying the barbarian/dwarfs just last longer. The equipment was better put on other chars.

Lilira wrote:I also know what a PITA it is to put together a nice outfit that translates well into RP as well as zonage.


Getting gear that translates into RP? Considering about 5% of the mud actually RP's....ah hell whatever floats your boat. Everyone walks around in cookie cutter outfits now.


[quote= "Arilin Nydelahar"]Dunno, I have to call BS on the idea that if you don't have time to re-equip after a wipe you don't have the time now. That's total BS. I have the time to zone now, I choose not to, the mud doesn't interest me overly much right now. That's the difference. I more than have the time to participate in zones(done tia twice only though), I simply pick not to right now, and if they did an eqwipe, yeah. It might help, but it'd drive some people off. With the minimal pbase we have, regardless of the changes coming in, how many people would leave vs come back?[/quote]

Umm.....how is that BS? You said it's BS and then went on to say you had time to zone but choose not to? Are you saying that these players that don't have time now will suddenly have time when the mud interests them? The way I see it, those who wouldn't come back after an eq wipe because they only have time to zone "on occasion" are no great loss if they leave anyway. I think we'd see more of a trend of new players being welcomed and grouped rather than decked out people grouping with decked out people to get maximum exp.

Or maybe Shevarash has already thought of a solution to this in his infinite wisdom and im just wasting my time.
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Postby Botef » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:12 pm

A change in game dynamics will do a lot IMO and a eq-wipe is really not needed, as old zones that have been above and beyond mastered will now be suspect to new tactics- as well as new zones being much more difficult to figure out. I think people will be plenty occupied inventing new ways to do old things.

With such an educated and knowledgably pbase, even new zones in our current enviorment lack much of a challenege unless they are overloaded with mobs, which is really only difficult in relation to group size/eq limits rather than being 'tough to figure out' as new creative tactics are few and far between. Now days leaders know just about every tactic possible within the current dynamics and just have to form a group capable of rolling the zone over.

Im very excited to see these changes, I think it will level the playing field for leaders/players a bit and give some new people a chance to be inventive and creative and do things that nobody has done before -which IMO is one of the things we've been lacking for awhile. Incentive for new players to 'master' the mud and do the undoable is lacking atm because such a large % of players have, which is one of the reasons we don't have many new players IMO and I think this kind of massive change will do wonders for drawing and keeping new players as well as reviving older players interests in coming back.

I must say I'm pretty damn stoked- double thumbs up Shev.
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Postby Lilira » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:21 pm

Nurpy wrote:I will be among the returning players, as will others. However, I really see this update as a "bring back recently bored players and give the pbase a boost" rather than a modern "new game".


Nurpy wrote:The way I see it, those who wouldn't come back after an eq wipe because they only have time to zone "on occasion" are no great loss if they leave anyway.


Nurpy dear,

For one who mentions that he'd love to see the pbase above 100, statements like the above sounds very contradictory. There's more than one way to enjoy the game, and slapping at people who play differently (but actually still play) is really sad. God forbid we allow our families and real life duties stand between us and a game.

I've seen alot of changes in the time I've been playing here. As far as the ones that affected me... I love what was done with Elems (I used to have a conjie, barb no less), Invokers/Enchanters (I had a sorc long ago), BARDS (STILL can't get over the difference, though I still miss song of sleep and song of charm). I very much miss my mercenary class, as much as folks miss their monks I'm sure. There was a learning curve involved with the introduction/removal of classes, but we all did it, and here we are with more changes to look forward to.

I say bring it on, watch, wait and learn. Lets see what gets done before we start jumping up and down and screaming about this, that and the other thing.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:56 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:
[quote= "Arilin Nydelahar"]Dunno, I have to call BS on the idea that if you don't have time to re-equip after a wipe you don't have the time now. That's total BS. I have the time to zone now, I choose not to, the mud doesn't interest me overly much right now. That's the difference. I more than have the time to participate in zones(done tia twice only though), I simply pick not to right now, and if they did an eqwipe, yeah. It might help, but it'd drive some people off. With the minimal pbase we have, regardless of the changes coming in, how many people would leave vs come back?


Umm.....how is that BS? You said it's BS and then went on to say you had time to zone but choose not to? Are you saying that these players that don't have time now will suddenly have time when the mud interests them? The way I see it, those who wouldn't come back after an eq wipe because they only have time to zone "on occasion" are no great loss if they leave anyway. I think we'd see more of a trend of new players being welcomed and grouped rather than decked out people grouping with decked out people to get maximum exp.

Or maybe Shevarash has already thought of a solution to this in his infinite wisdom and im just wasting my time.


Far to lazy to quote the part I want, but if you're copping saying you don't play Nurpy because he's a halfling and he's not as good as other tanks, oh freaking well. If you play him well, and are a_good_ warrior, you'd get zone groups. Hell, medicore warriors get groups, a good warrior, regardless of race would get groups. I just think it's a copout is all.
Last edited by Arilin Nydelahar on Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Latreg » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:26 pm

If you want a wipe go wipe your.......well you know.

When these new changes come in we should all be ready and willing to assist new people should this bring an influx of actual newbies. I know everyone wants to hurry up and explore this and try that, but I would urge some restrain and patients so that perhaps the pbase can be increased and maintained.
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Postby Ambar » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:59 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:
Vigis wrote:An EQ wipe would just translate into Spob getting hit every single boot.

Hell, you are already naked...


Nurpy is naked, because halfling warriors aren't all the rage atm. Even when I was decked out in hps and saves, when the areas start flying the barbarian/dwarfs just last longer. The equipment was better put on other chars.


I think he meant it's a naked zone

sue me I may be wrong
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:17 am

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:
[quote= "Arilin Nydelahar"]Dunno, I have to call BS on the idea that if you don't have time to re-equip after a wipe you don't have the time now. That's total BS. I have the time to zone now, I choose not to, the mud doesn't interest me overly much right now. That's the difference. I more than have the time to participate in zones(done tia twice only though), I simply pick not to right now, and if they did an eqwipe, yeah. It might help, but it'd drive some people off. With the minimal pbase we have, regardless of the changes coming in, how many people would leave vs come back?


Umm.....how is that BS? You said it's BS and then went on to say you had time to zone but choose not to? Are you saying that these players that don't have time now will suddenly have time when the mud interests them? The way I see it, those who wouldn't come back after an eq wipe because they only have time to zone "on occasion" are no great loss if they leave anyway. I think we'd see more of a trend of new players being welcomed and grouped rather than decked out people grouping with decked out people to get maximum exp.

Or maybe Shevarash has already thought of a solution to this in his infinite wisdom and im just wasting my time.


Far to lazy to quote the part I want, but if you're copping saying you don't play Nurpy because he's a halfling and he's not as good as other tanks, oh freaking well. If you play him well, and are a_good_ warrior, you'd get zone groups. Hell, medicore warriors get groups, a good warrior, regardless of race would get groups. I just think it's a copout is all.


Lol...why are you changing the subject? First we talk about eq wipe then BLAM! you're calling me a bad warrior. You call my statements BS and don't back it up? I got zone groups as Nurpy, and those who zoned with him know he was just as good as any other til the areas started flying.


Lilira, I'm stating the simple logical fact that those who would quit after an eq wipe now, wouldn't be the ones playing alot after the updates anyway.
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Postby Guardias » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:02 am

Maybe we can stop the arguing about pay to play and why halfling warriors somehow suck and this madness about eq or pwipes.

Let us focus on the fact that we'll all have some new stuff to learn. That's not a bad thing and with new classes I expect groups will come together easier as there will be more diversity. So lets just hope the learning curve is'nt too steep and wait for the fun to begin.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:02 am

Orc Anti-Paladin.....ooooh yeah.
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Postby Birile » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:37 am

Shev,

I'm most interested in knowing if my halfling bard and grey elf elementalist will be given some sort of customization option since I've literally put years into each. Or will they be put on the backburner to never be seen again because they can't be customized the way a newly-rolled character can be?

:?:

Thanks for the update!
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Postby Eilistraee » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:28 pm

I'll answer for Shevarash on that one Birile.

All existing characters will have the ability to remake themselves with the customization options. Unlike the modifications to the stat roller in the past, this is a comprehensive overhaul to how a character is configured, and all characters will have the opportunity to take advantage of it.
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Postby Ruxur » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:31 pm

Nurpy Fuzzyfeet wrote:I got zone groups as Nurpyanyway.



no you didn't you just think you did.
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Postby Birile » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:42 pm

Eilistraee wrote:I'll answer for Shevarash on that one Birile.

All existing characters will have the ability to remake themselves with the customization options. Unlike the modifications to the stat roller in the past, this is a comprehensive overhaul to how a character is configured, and all characters will have the opportunity to take advantage of it.


Sweet! :)
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Postby Malia » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:42 pm

Start a thread on gameplay bout warriors and what not keep this one on updates so i dont have to read through pages of garbage to see the 1 or 2 comments on changes. We will im sure be activly reading this daily till 2007 or so waiting for changes so lets not garbage it up to bad.
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:45 pm

Eilistraee wrote:I'll answer for Shevarash on that one Birile.

All existing characters will have the ability to remake themselves with the customization options. Unlike the modifications to the stat roller in the past, this is a comprehensive overhaul to how a character is configured, and all characters will have the opportunity to take advantage of it.


When they remake they are brought back to level one? Or is it bam im level 50 and im customized, baby.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:28 pm

You will not lose any levels or equipment or anything like that. As Eilistraee said, you will customize your existing characters. It will all make more sense as more details are announced.
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Postby flib » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:28 am

it's over a week :P throw us a bone :P
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:24 am

flib wrote:it's over a week :P throw us a bone :P


Yessss, we need some serious boneage.

I have sooo many questions, I'm quivering with anticipation of the details of this character customization.

Excellent!
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Postby Naled » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:00 pm

What will happen to current quest spells? I'd hate to lose fireembody or timestop after all the trouble i've been to questing them. Do they stay, or are they replaced? Will there be more quest spells?
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:01 pm

Patience, young grasshopper.

It could take quite some time to implement drastic changes.
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Postby grundar » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:08 am

when the fuck did this post become a halfling soap box not to mention all the other whiners? jfc! ask questions.. answer questions.. im getting tired of you people and your silly pissing contests, am about to keep ideas, suggestons and crap out of bbs and probably aint the only one... there are other threads where shev has already said !wipe eq or player... go bump them..

just ask questions on how you'r halfling warrior can be pimped up :P
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Postby Arcelian » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:19 am

I'm curious about this character customization. I'm imagining something where playability is more based on skills than levels.....
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Postby Birile » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:26 pm

Arcelian wrote:I'm curious about this character customization. I'm imagining something where playability is more based on skills than levels.....


And I was thinking it was more along the lines of Homeland's customization of classes. Shev did mention more classes.

On Homeland, you started as certain core classes, did a small quest at what, level 10, to mort into the specialization you wanted and that's how you became X type of rogue or mage or what-not, or you could keep the core class.

But if we're bringing in Homeland's type of Bard I'm sooooo going to complain 'til the cows come home!
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Postby Dalar » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:48 pm

Is there a way to get an email when Shevarash posts? Don't really care about all this speculation going on.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:18 pm

Eilistraee wrote:All existing characters will have the ability to remake themselves with the customization options. Unlike the modifications to the stat roller in the past, this is a comprehensive overhaul to how a character is configured, and all characters will have the opportunity to take advantage of it.


How about for our old characters that were made before the new kinder, gentler stat roller? Can we get an "update" for those characters in the form of stats more in line with what can be rolled now a days?
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Postby Eilistraee » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:55 am

Old characters do fall under the classification of all, yes :)
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Postby Gruy » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:48 am

can statments not related to the topic of this forum be removed elis? kinda getting crowded in here with stuff that has nothing to do with new changes. if not thanks anyways for the updates that have been posted!
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Postby Nurpy Fuzzyfeet » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:33 am

Details!
Aristan group-says 'nurpy=tripod'

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Postby Birile » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:09 pm

Eilistraee wrote:Old characters do fall under the classification of all, yes :)


I think what Eilistraee may be indicating is that part of the character customization that will take place is that we will be given the opportunity to re-roll our stats, so whether our character was rolled before the new roller or after won't matter when the updates are done.
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Postby Latreg » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:43 pm

Birile wrote:
Eilistraee wrote:Old characters do fall under the classification of all, yes :)


I think what Eilistraee may be indicating is that part of the character customization that will take place is that we will be given the opportunity to re-roll our stats, so whether our character was rolled before the new roller or after won't matter when the updates are done.


that was what I was wondering, even though nothing specifically addressed stats which I asked about, the flip reply apparently means stats as well.
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Postby Glorishan » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:32 am

I smell remort.
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Postby flib » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:44 am

I smell god time :P hah sorry shev I totally understand yer a busy dood.. just so f'in psyched to hear more :P
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Postby hagah » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:36 pm

*snip* moved to gormals thread in gameplay discuss..
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Postby Dalar » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:02 pm

2 weeks no word
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Shevarash » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:24 pm

I missed last week due to some personal events. So to make up for it, there will be two posts today...
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
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Postby Boboloppe » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:26 am

I'm going to play devils advocate here. please fill me in on the points below Nurpy

1. What would we stand to gain from making the game pay to play ?(assuming that a method is found that complies with the no profit stipulations)


2. How exactly will Pay to Play equate to a noticable growth in Player Base?


3. What would an Eq wipe do to make the mud less clique-ish or in any way promote involving new people?

Now I will voice my Opinion on these Ideas.

1. A Pay to Play movement would only make toril look like a dumed down version of EQ or WoW or any other pay to play MMORG. Rather than a chalenging game that focuses on stratagey and imagination. I mean this becouse you will never get the mud to have great graphics so we will lose on that point, you won't be able to pay all the staff enough to devote full time to the mud so we will not compete in the area of staff time devotion, you can't raise enough to advertise on the lvl of WoW or EQ.

2. I have nothing for that I'm just at a loss I can't see how makeing people pay for something they already get for free will make more people want it, if it works let e know I'll charge my friends for there stuff.(sorry that was a mean joke)

3. An EQ wipe will actually promote clique-ish behavior and here is why. we are all naked so we need to get eq I'm going to ask the people I know becouse I know what they can do and I can't afford for them to mess up I don't have the eq to fall back on I need the warrior to be spot on with rescue and bash and I need the clerics to be hitting heals every time and they will need me to nail every scale without fail, in this game the eq has never been more important to a great player than the players skill and his ability to work with his group-mates good eq just gives you a bigger margin for error and that margin for error makes it easier to use new people.
Fresh from the Taint.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:57 pm

There is no way in hell Bob is the same person I knew.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby sok » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:59 am

2.0 toril looks really cool. i can't believe, i just heard about it today. good job shev.

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