Toril 2.0: Character Attributes

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Postby Latreg » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:55 pm

Thilindel wrote:So to get extra innate attacks, if still applicable, do you need to hit a certain value for dex, or is that same value reserved for certain races only?


I think there are feats which give you extra attacks, seems things like extra attacks and better ac is more feat/skill driven than affected by stats.
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:18 pm

Ah, well we haven't quite gotten into these things yet, which will be covered in an upcomign Advanced Combat topic.

I will say that the extra attacks for certain races based on Dex will not be a part of 2.0. Nor is it neccessary, as that code was essentially a band-aid over the huge problems with the old racial/stat system.

The constitution hitpoint bonus is figured dynamically. If you take +con gear off, you will lose those extra base hitpoints.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:41 pm

For stats, D&D essentially considers racial modifiers last when you're buidling your character. When generating a new character, you start off with an 8 in all six attributes. You're given a point pool, usually 24-30, to distribute among your stats. Raising a stat over 14 costs 2 points. Raising a stat over 16 costs 3 points. When you're done allocating your points, your racial modifers are applied to produce your final attribute scores.

Example:

I'm rolling a Fighter with the 28 point system, so I end up with:

16 Str (10)
10 Dex (2)
16 Con (10)
12 Int (4)
10 Wis (2)
8 Cha (0)

I've decided to make my character a Dwarf. Dwarves get +2 Con -2 Cha, so my final stats are:

16 Str
10 Dex
18 Con
14 Int
10 Wis
6 Cha

And that's how my Cha score goes "below average." Now if I wanted to make a Halfling Fighter using the same stats (-2 Str +2 Dex), if I allocate my points the same way, I end up with:

14 Str
12 Dex
16 Con
14 Int
10 Wis
8 Cha

So yes, to get to 14 Strength, a Halfling has to spend more points than a Dwarf. However, it's easiest to look at it as creating stats and then adding racial modifiers after you're done.

At least, this is how D&D does it, and I would expect Toril 2.0 to follow a similar system (though the numbers are obviously much bigger).
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Postby Cirath » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:32 pm

Edit: Someone beat me to the comment before I noticed there was a page 2
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Postby Gormal » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:22 pm

I don't want to be a Negative Nonox, but I think that the equipment restatting is going to require a lot more tweaking than just "top tier" items. Look at all of the problems that are still going on due to the last automated system of restatting, and that was without changing how those stats functioned. Many items were designed with exacting stats to work with the code (read: quicksilver mask notching racial max_agi). I'm betting that its going to take an independant review of nearly every zone in the game to get things working right.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:38 pm

To clarify, my goals as a coder is to make sure that the great majority of items translate to approximately the same power and function as they were in the old system. Fine-tuning for many zones throughout the game will certainly be required by the Areas staff.

This has been a concern of mine from the get-go, and I've done everything possible to minimize the amount of restatting that will be neccessary.
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Postby Birile » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:50 pm

This is interesting. So an item that gives, say, +5 Strength would be more valuable to a Halfling with, say, 100 Strength than for an Ogre with 100 Strength. While the item would increase both characters' Strength to 105 and understanding that a Halfling's 105 Strength is equal to an Ogre's 105 Strength, it still would take more point allotments for the Halfling to go from 100 Str to 105 than the Ogre. Right?
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Postby Cirath » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:35 pm

Birile wrote:This is interesting. So an item that gives, say, +5 Strength would be more valuable to a Halfling with, say, 100 Strength than for an Ogre with 100 Strength. While the item would increase both characters' Strength to 105 and understanding that a Halfling's 105 Strength is equal to an Ogre's 105 Strength, it still would take more point allotments for the Halfling to go from 100 Str to 105 than the Ogre. Right?


Not really. To get from 100 to 105 would likely cost both the same amount. However, the difference is that when the characters were created, the ogre probably started somewhere around 80 before you ever put a single point in, so it only took a few points to get him to 100. Meanwhile, the halfling probably started closer to 30, so you had to spend a considerably larger pool of points to get him to 100. It isn't a matter of how much each step costs, because they are all the same. It is a matter of how many steps there are from the beginning to the goal.

Of course, I could be wrong, but this is how I understand it.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:29 pm

This is interesting. So an item that gives, say, +5 Strength would be more valuable to a Halfling with, say, 100 Strength than for an Ogre with 100 Strength. While the item would increase both characters' Strength to 105 and understanding that a Halfling's 105 Strength is equal to an Ogre's 105 Strength, it still would take more point allotments for the Halfling to go from 100 Str to 105 than the Ogre. Right?


Technically speaking yes, but I'm not sure that's important.

A Halfling has 100 Strength, and he wants to increase that stat. He could spend (for example) 25 stat points to increase his Strength to 105, or he could wear a +5 Str item.

An Ogre has 100 Strength, and he wants to increase that stat. He could spend 10 stat points to increase his Strength to 105, or he could wear a +5 Str item.

By this logic, it appears that the item is "more valuable" to the Halfling than the Ogre, because it would cost him more stat points to increase his Strength by 5. But this isn't a very good way to look at the problem. The Halfling and the Ogre will both gain the same +hit and +dam modifiers by using the item, so its "value" in that regard is equal.

Players will probably want to use items to increase their highest stats rather than having to flush more and more points for small gains. But I wouldn't consider a Strength item "better" for a Halfling than an Ogre just because the little guy starts with less Strength.
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:41 am

I do remember the 1995-esque old stats, but then remembering when they changed it where races had the 1-100 rather than the 1-18. It's gonna be weird seeing a halfling as strong as an ogre! This current system, a halfling couldn't really hit human strength as it is, let alone ogre :P
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Postby Lilira » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:51 am

While I don't know for sure, but this makes sense to me...

If you get an item that is +5 to str perhaps its +5 points instead of +5 to the attrib... so basically if the ratio for a halfling to change his 50 str to a 51 is 5pts:1 stat number, then basically that item would only bump his stat by one, whereas ogres perhaps would have a 1:1 ratio on the point spread so a +5 would actually give the ogre +5 to the stat.

Its early, but I hope that makes sense....

As I said, that's hypothetical but it makes sense to me as a possible solution. It should be hard as hell for a halfling to hit 100 str, and equipment shouldn't make it easily possible.

Yeah Shev.. you've opened Pandora's box with this one, so there's going to be conjecture to keep us all busy until you "come clean". *grin*
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:00 pm

Hey, if you want to play a super-strong halfling that lacks in all other areas (since they'd have to spend a huge percentage of their points to overcome their strength penalty), why not? Personally, if I were playing a halfling I'd opt for something more well balanced, but...

The thing is, by dropping two extraneous abilities (Agi/Pow), and tying so many things in the game to the remaining ability scores it makes it so almost every ability is useful to every race/class combo, so its in your own self-interest to balance your character well - although there is plenty of wiggle room, and room for variety.
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:28 pm

Can we get more details in the attributes themselves? For instance how does str affect combat, and how does dex? I know that _sounds_ obvious, but there's always questions like does strength affect damage AND "thac0" or just damage. Does dex contribute to AC, or just affect dodge skills? Does dex help your "THAC0?"
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Postby Cirath » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:40 pm

Sarvis wrote:Does dex help your "THAC0?"


It's Base Attack Bonus now, grandpa! *duck*

As for the whole halfling to ogre strength comparison. It seems to me that a lot of the confusion assumes that everyone starts at 50, and that the only difference for capabilities is how much each stat in each point will cost with no consideration for racial penalties or bonuses. As it was explained at the beginning of this thread, you start at 50 on all stats, and buy points as you like for each for the same price with no consideration for race. After you buy the stats and move on, then your race is considered, and the appropriate penalties and bonuses are applied.

Sure, your halfling can have ogre strength, but he is going to have a two in every other stat most likely.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:10 pm

Sarvis wrote:Can we get more details in the attributes themselves? For instance how does str affect combat, and how does dex? I know that _sounds_ obvious, but there's always questions like does strength affect damage AND "thac0" or just damage. Does dex contribute to AC, or just affect dodge skills? Does dex help your "THAC0?"


By D&D rules, Strength affects melee hitroll and damage, while Dexterity affects ranged hitroll. You can use Strength to increase your ranged damage, but only by buying a "mighty composite" bow, which is essentially a longbow with increased pull, allowing you to use your Strength to add force behind your arrows.

No idea how they're doing it here.
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:52 pm

Ragorn wrote:By D&D rules, Strength affects melee hitroll and damage, while Dexterity affects ranged hitroll. You can use Strength to increase your ranged damage, but only by buying a "mighty composite" bow, which is essentially a longbow with increased pull, allowing you to use your Strength to add force behind your arrows.


I know, I'm just hoping they do it more intelligently...
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:55 pm

Str/Dex affect combat in the ways described in the Combat Basics post.

Str = Melee Hitroll/Damage Bonus

Dex = Ranged Hitroll/Armor Bonus

Obviously it gets alot mroe complicated than that, and will be explained further as the topics arise. If there's something specific you want to know I'll try to answer, but the question was pretty broad.
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Postby flib » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:31 pm

might have been talked about already but what is gonna happen to al the + max gear if theres no ceiling on attributes then + max is gonna be irrelevant.. which is gonna change a whole lotta gear
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Postby Latreg » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:03 pm

flib wrote:might have been talked about already but what is gonna happen to al the + max gear if theres no ceiling on attributes then + max is gonna be irrelevant.. which is gonna change a whole lotta gear


on page one of this topic Shev. posted about having not forgotten about those items.....
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Postby Gantoris » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:00 pm

Sarvis wrote:Can we get more details in the attributes themselves? For instance how does str affect combat, and how does dex? I know that _sounds_ obvious, but there's always questions like does strength affect damage AND "thac0" or just damage. Does dex contribute to AC, or just affect dodge skills? Does dex help your "THAC0?"


[As it is in Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 and seems to follow what Shevy posted, although I'm taking some guesses about some things as they may translate from D&D so grain of salt please]


Strength - Bonus to Melee Hit/Damage , Carry Capacity
Dextarity - +Armor Class (dodge & touch AC), +Ranged Hit, Reflex Saving Throws, lots of physical skills based on this stat
Constitution - Bonus Hitpoints, Fortitude Saves (poison and such)
Intellegence - Bonus Skill Points, Wizards get bonus spell slots and wizard spells DC (the saving throw) is incrased by INT, numerous skills are based on this stat
Wisdom - Priestly magic bonus spells and spell DC's (difficulty class), Will saving throws, some good skills based on this stat like Spot and Listen
Charisma - Sorcerer (spontanious spell casters) uses this stat to determine bonus spells and the saving throws of their spells they cast against baddies, this stat usually deals with social based skills and I would imagine effect some NPC's.
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Postby Cirath » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:17 pm

Gantoris wrote:Strength - Bonus to Melee Hit/Damage , Carry Capacity


And bonus to thrown weapon damage


Gantoris wrote:Intellegence - Bonus Skill Points, Wizards get bonus spell slots and wizard spells DC (the saving throw) is incrased by INT, numerous skills are based on this stat


This is also the primary stat for psionics (or, at least, the sort of psions that illithids are currently), though I suspect this may just as likely be relegated to charisma.

Gantoris wrote:Charisma - Sorcerer (spontanious spell casters) uses this stat to determine bonus spells and the saving throws of their spells they cast against baddies, this stat usually deals with social based skills and I would imagine effect some NPC's.


This also effects the spell casting and song abilities of bards.


On a slightly different subject, I was curious about the equality of stats adjustment equipment. As it stands right now, it is extremely easy to make up for a mediocre score in strength, constitution, intelligence, and dexterity. Meanwhile, the availability of bonuses to other stats (particularly for some classes that aren't seen to "need" it) is significantly lower. Is there any plan to level the playing field a bit?

I know this fits equally well in an equipment discussion, but since it deals with attributes as well, I thought I would give it a shot.
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Postby Tasan » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:48 pm

Cirath wrote:On a slightly different subject, I was curious about the equality of stats adjustment equipment. As it stands right now, it is extremely easy to make up for a mediocre score in strength, constitution, intelligence, and dexterity.


I'm thinking this come down to more of a problem with the overall system of limiting who can wear what object. Under a system where stats are all equal and everyone can benefit from wearing nearly anything, I would hope much of the restrictions that do and don't make sense can be removed. By that token, i hope that some restrictions do stay and that new types of restrictions come into play(i.e. 2 2h wielding ogres having to sac dex for str, but gaining that ability etc.).
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Postby Cirath » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:21 pm

Tasan wrote:2 2h wielding ogres having to sac dex for str, but gaining that ability etc.


It would be easier to just add weapon sizes (though I expect that the halfling and gnome rogues and warriors would not like this at all), or the monkey grip feat. Or both.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:36 pm

I read the post where we will be given much more info on our characters etc. but what I was wondering is will there be some stat charts to show us where the "notches" are? Current method is try something on, check your stats see if you get any hit/damage,ac or hitpoints etc. From the way the new design sounds all the charts will be the same for every race etc, just the cost per point will differ.
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Postby Cirath » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:56 pm

Latreg wrote:From the way the new design sounds all the charts will be the same for every race etc, just the cost per point will differ.


Not even the cost per point differs. Just the racial adjustments.
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Postby Gantoris » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:02 am

Latreg wrote:I read the post where we will be given much more info on our characters etc. but what I was wondering is will there be some stat charts to show us where the "notches" are? Current method is try something on, check your stats see if you get any hit/damage,ac or hitpoints etc. From the way the new design sounds all the charts will be the same for every race etc, just the cost per point will differ.


Lets just make a few assumptions here:

50 is the baseline stat (50=10 in 3.5) [+0 ability modifier]

Example. A high elf in 3.5 gets +2 Dex and -2 Con

In the MUD this would likley convert into +10 Dex, -10 Con (assuming each "notch" is every 10 stat points) [ie. a stat of 100 would be a +5 ability modifer, just as a stat of 20 in 3.5 would be a +5 ability modifer]

Stats in 3.5 follow a progression of every *even* number above 10 provides the next "notch" in ability point progression.

Most point buy in 3.5 is about 28-30 "points" to buy stats.

The 3.5 Chart for Point-buy is something like this:

Stats start at 8 and must be 'purchased higher'

9-14 = 1 point each
15-16= 2 points each
17-18= 3 points each


So to buy a stat of 14 it costs you 6 "points" of your 32 character generation points, and to buy a stat of 16 it would cost you 10 "points" of your 32. [9-14 is 1 point each and 15 (2) and 16 (another 2) = 10]

So if we use a straight up conversion that means we might buy our stats up in increments of 5 (arbitrary assumption).

So perhaps the MUD chart for stat buying would look like this:

45,50,55,60,65,70 = 1 point each
75,80 = 2 points each
85,90 = 3 points each
95,100 = 4 points each


So to buy a 100 out of the gates would be sacrificing your other stats. (keep in mind that in 3.5 every 4 levels you get to "raise" any stat by +1, so as Shevy has implied above in the announcment there will be a similar ability to "raise" your stats higher and higher in addition to stat boost equipment.

So how about we build ourselves an Elf fighter shall we?

Stat Buy................................. Elf Template Applied

STR 80 +3 (10 pts)..................STR 80 +3
DEX 80 +3 (10 pts)..................DEX 90 +4 (+10 Racial bonus)
CON 80 +3 (10 pts).................CON 70 +2 (-10 Racial penalty)
INT 40 -1 (0 pts).....................INT 40 -1
WIS 50 +0 (2 pts)...................WIS 50 +0 (low will saves suck!)
CHA 40 -1 (0 pts)....................CHA 40 -1


So as you can see, each character spends the same points to raise a stat, it's just that after you apply a racial bonus you can get some nice 'bumps' to your stat that would have cost more points had you not had the racial bonus. To buy a stat of 90 right out of the gates would cost 16 of your 32 generation points! ;)

So for those of you that are not 3.5 junkies, I hope this makes it clear how things might pan out. I expect the other races will follow suit with the rest of 3.5 with perhaps the expection of some of the 'monsterous races' as a 0 level Troll in 3.5 is the equal as a 9th level character in the eyes of the game mechanics. I suspect there will be some deveations from 3.5 to keep the playing field balanced.

But for each stat boost their is a penalty... for the most part each stat IS important now. There are still throw-away stats for some classes like Charisma, but to some classes it is bread and butter. Paladins, Clerics, Bards, Sorcerors, and certain Rogue builds all benefit.

So rather than spending days on a complex "roller" program you can plot and plan exactly where you stat points are going to :D Suh-weet.

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Postby Latreg » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:30 pm

Gantoris nice post, thanks, very helpful. What I'm also wondering is, say you have a str of 100 which gives you +4 to damage, what would be the next number (notch) that would give me +5 etc.?
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:42 pm

According to this mock-up (which is probably not numerically accurate), you start at 50 = 0 and go up +1 for every ten points above 50. So, a Str of 100 would be +5 damage in this example.
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Postby Gantoris » Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:13 am

Ragorn is correct. And as far as the number go this is purely "in theory" but I'm simply applied how things work in 3.5 and made an educated guess at how things *might* look if taken in a literal sense. I can see the trend so far that things have followed 3.5 to the letter mechanics wise for feats and from the explination Shevy has given for stats.

Overall my attempt was to just show how there is a linear progression with stats and that 100 is *NOT* the top end. I'm certain we are going to see 50th level warriors with Strength in the 150's or higher. With what Shevy has said already and in line with 3.5 there is NO limit as to how high a stat can go. Therefor there is no need for Max_stat equipment. (Honestly, i have no idea how these will translate over but it sounds like Shevy has a plan).

So I would expect to see this linear progression with stats regardless of what the actual numbers turn out to be. I'm fairly positive racial stat bumps will work exactly as outlined above though.

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Postby daggaz » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:37 pm

edited..didnt see the second page.. *blush*
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:37 am

Will stats continue to change with age?
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Postby Gantoris » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:02 pm

Sarvis wrote:Will stats continue to change with age?


Who knows! In 3.5 races get weaker as they grow older but smarter as they age. -STR -CON, +INT +WIS
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"Opportunity" ?

Postby Lorsalian » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:33 pm

My own question revolves around the fact that this has been described as an 'opportunity' to reroll stats.

If the stats are currently better than is possible under the point buy, do we have the 'opportunity' to use the current stats?
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Postby Gantoris » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:59 pm

I guarentee thats a big no Lor.

Shevy made it rather clear that each player would be given the SAME starting points to 'buy' their stats.

Reiterate: There will be NO benefit given to the current status of your stats in the re-roll. No matter the hours put in, the tears, and joy of rolling 'the perfect build'... everybody gets the same point pool.

PS. I'm only snarky because it would be impossible to even do what you suggest since the stats are not even the same in Toril 2.0 :P Power, Agility, and Luck went the way of the dinosaur :) No way to balance that out or do the calculations for an 8 stat system to a 6.

Make sense? :)

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Postby Thilindel » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:56 am

Given the 1 month mini-versary, and hating to be the 'Are we there yet?' from the backseat, but when might the next 2.0 tidbit be released?
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Postby Ambar » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:44 pm

Thilindel wrote:Given the 1 month mini-versary, and hating to be the 'Are we there yet?' from the backseat, but when might the next 2.0 tidbit be released?


He just got married! Let him settle into his new life .. let his wife settle in to her new home .. sheesh :P

*grin*
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Postby Gormal » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:25 am

What better way to honeymoon than to give up your real life for a FANTASY world? I mean come on... its FANTASTIC!
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Postby Todrael » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:23 pm

What is the strategic direction for Liches? Fold them back into Necromancers to make balance easier, or keep them separate and build unique Undead skills, spells, and feats?

Also, I haven't seen this addressed elsewhere, so perhaps I just missed it. In Toril 2.0, will evil and good races be able to group together?
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Postby Lorsalian » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:42 pm

Gantoris wrote: No way to balance that out or do the calculations for an 8 stat system to a 6.

~Gantoris


Actually, simply dropping the stats, it is still possible for a roll to be better than a point-buy. As for balance, well, that's the reason I imagine that it truly is "a big no". The complexity of administering it, and the joy of trying to balance the old-schoolers with the new point-buyers.

Pretty much thought to ask (even tho I am/was sure it truly is as Gant described) -- if Gant's answer isn't yours, Shev, pls elaborate.

*shrug*
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Postby Gormal » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:11 pm

I've refrained from posting in these threads mostly because you guys are making me feel pretty inadequate thanks to my complete lack of tabletop experience. I wish I knew someone who lived near me that wasn't too creepy to hang out with. Maybe then, I could get a better handle on everything.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:23 pm

Todrael wrote:What is the strategic direction for Liches? Fold them back into Necromancers to make balance easier, or keep them separate and build unique Undead skills, spells, and feats?


Very good question, considering undead do not have Constitution scores or Fortitude saves in 3.x D&D.
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Postby Lathander » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:38 pm

Undead characters exist in 3.5, just look at Libris Mortis. I don't know if this is exactly how Shev is doing it, but it does exist in 3.5.
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Re: "Opportunity" ?

Postby Shevarash » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:13 pm

Lorsalian wrote:My own question revolves around the fact that this has been described as an 'opportunity' to reroll stats.

If the stats are currently better than is possible under the point buy, do we have the 'opportunity' to use the current stats?


Sorry for the late reply, but just to be clear -

Your stats in the old system will have no bearing on your new Ability Scores. Everyone will start from scratch as far as that goes. The new system is so vastly different that there is no practical way to translate between the two, and this is also a good opportunity to level the playing field, so to speak. It is unfortunate that those of you who spent a lot of time rolling uber stats will lose that work - but you did get plenty of use for it, and now its time for it to change to make way for something better.
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Cirath
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Postby Cirath » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:54 pm

Lathander wrote:Undead characters exist in 3.5, just look at Libris Mortis. I don't know if this is exactly how Shev is doing it, but it does exist in 3.5.


Of course, that book makes undead gods among breathing meat-sacks, so some tweaking may be in order.
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Postby Drache » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:05 pm

Uh oh! If someone knows CPR, it seems stuff's starting to flatline :( Need new 2.0 info! Tasty!
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:37 am

I do have a question about char attributes and equipment I don't believe was addressed.

Since stats are changing, and max_X is changing, will equipment, say fumes for example with a -max_con be changed more inline with it? Or will the gear be staying the same? Cause if things change the way people are predicting im fairly sure two fumes with that amount of maxcon in the negatives means it'll never get used and turned into a trash item.
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Postby Cirath » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:52 am

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Since stats are changing, and max_X is changing, will equipment, say fumes for example with a -max_con be changed more inline with it? Or will the gear be staying the same? Cause if things change the way people are predicting im fairly sure two fumes with that amount of maxcon in the negatives means it'll never get used and turned into a trash item.


The max_stat flag isn't changing so much as disapearing, as I understand it. Since there is no maximum ceiling for stats, having something to raise that nonexistant boundary would be pointless. My guess is that max_stat items (whether plus or minus) will just give more significant bonuses to the chosen stat than a regular + or - stat item.

Of course, this is just a guess.
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Postby Latreg » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:13 pm

Cirath wrote:The max_stat flag isn't changing so much as disapearing, as I understand it. Since there is no maximum ceiling for stats, having something to raise that nonexistant boundary would be pointless. My guess is that max_stat items (whether plus or minus) will just give more significant bonuses to the chosen stat than a regular + or - stat item.

Of course, this is just a guess.


I think I asked about this as well and the way you have explained it is correct I believe. And because the +max are "special" compared to regular + equipment I don't think they will translate to a straight + for +, ie +4max_wis I don't think will be just a +4 wis.
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Postby Disoputlip » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:17 pm

Changing the meaning of max_eq and normal +stat eq would throw certain items off.

You could also imagine the +max_stat still would be the only stat that could get you past 100, although that would mabye be unfair for elves that need int.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:37 pm

I believe everyone is missing the point of my posts.

fumes have a detriment. A very large one, that if max_stat changes go into effect will in practice make fumes NEVER used.

My question is, will equipment like that one particular item be changed where people will actually use it still, or shall we just duckpond our items like that?
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