Toril 2.0: Wizards and Specialists

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Toril 2.0: Wizards and Specialists

Postby Shevarash » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:38 am

Toril 2.0 - Wizards and Specialists

Toril 2.0 features a very different approach to the Arcane spellcasters - which currently consist of Invokers, Illusionists, Enchanters, Necromancers, and Elementalists. Currently, these are all different classes that, while they share some similarities, all have separate abilities and spell lists. Toril 2.0 will merge all of these classes into one, with many options for specialization.

The Wizard

Wizard is a new class for Toril 2.0. All Arcane casters will start as a Wizard, though they may pick to specialize later. There is one unified Arcane spell list which Wizards can cast from. This spell list includes spells from every school of magic and is quite vast. Wizards may cast from all the schools of magic, and receive bonus Metamagic feats to modify and empower their spells.

Wizards are a highly versatile class and can fill many roles within a group as they have access to the entire Arcane spell list. They can be incredibly powerful, but are very weak in physical combat and depend on the hardier classes for protection while they cast their spells.

Note:
All current Mages will b e converted to Wizards, and may then choose a specialization if they so desire.

Specialist Wizards

If desired, a Wizard may choose to specialize in a specific school of magic. The benefits to this include:
    - Greater effectiveness at their chosen school,
    - One extra spell slot per circle from their chosen school,
    - Access to a limited number of powerful spells from their chosen school
    - A special time-limited ability that matches their chosen school.


In return,a specialist must permanently ban two schools of magic from their list. All schools except Divination and Universal may be specialized in, and any two schools may be banned (player's choice) except for Universal and Divination.

After specializing, the Wizard's class will change to that of their specialization. There will be a method for reversing or changing one's specialization which will be detailed later.

Specialist Classes

The following are the types of specialists available, and a brief synopsis of their chosen focus. More information on the schools of magic can be found in the Magic announcement.

Abjurers - specialists in spells that protect, block, or banish. This is primarily a defensive specialty.

Conjurers - this specialist class focuses on bringing creatures or materials to the caster to aid him or her.

Enchanters - specialists in spells that imbue the recipient with some property or grant the caster power over another creature.

Evokers - these specialists focuses on spells that manipulate energy. This primarily an offensive specialty.

Illusionists - focus on spells that alter perception or manipulate shadow energy.

Necromancers - masters of death and undeath, focusing on spells that manipulate, create, or destroy life.

Transmuters - these specialists focus on spells that transform the target physically or change its properties in a subtle way.

Conclusion

The above outlines a vastly different way of doing things. Rather than having several distinct and highly specialized mage classes, we will now have one primary class that can branch out into one of seven different specialties. All of these classes, however, share the same spell list - although the specialists will have to ban two schools of magic. Note that you do not have to specialize. Some of the benefits of specializing can be obtained via feats (although certainly not all), and the option of remaining a generalist wizard that can cast from every school is a highly viable one.

Its also worth noting that the Arcane spell list is huge, and includes a large amount of rare and uncommon spells to be found in your adventures.

In keeping with the common theme of 2.0, this new system should allow for great variety and the power to customize your character to suit your play style. I look forward to your feedback and constructive criticism.
Last edited by Shevarash on Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Guardias » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:40 am

Transmuters?!? *Drool*
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Postby flib » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:33 am

what an extremely.. interesting idea.. so me being a full time invo :). can.. if choose.. change.. to say an abjurer and completely change the focus of the class i leveled up to 50 with. cool idea. invo being one of the easier to level up with. I just hope the people who leveled enchanters to 50.. (ugh). don't get to upset by me making their class without doing as much grinding.. I did quite alot though.. dont get me wrong.. but eh. ouch. but it is pretty sweet the idea of being able to take a bunch of different spells from different professions of magic and make one.. very distinct spellcaster.
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:53 am

When you change specialization, what happens to spells you learned? For instance, say you were specialized as an Invoker, and had banned enchantment... then switched to being an Enchanter and banned Invocation. Do you lose the Invocation spells, or just can't prepare them anymore?

Also, with the whole class switching thing... is there any penalty for doing it? I can easily see players switching their class to whatever is best suited for the next zone they plan on, thus making the limitations for specialization relatively meaningless.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:52 pm

Well. That sounds kind of interesting, though my question is this.

What's this mean for us Liches?

Will we be reverted to wizards, and then have to spec necromancy? Is there still going to be a remort out there to go into lichdom? How about lich only spells and what not?
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Postby Cirath » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:56 pm

flib wrote:what an extremely.. interesting idea.. so me being a full time invo :). can.. if choose.. change.. to say an abjurer and completely change the focus of the class i leveled up to 50 with.


I doubt that the work involved in affecting the change in specialization will be less than the bit of extra work that a different specialist might have to do. Also consider that abjurers need not be weak on offense simply because they are specialized in a defensive school. So long as they dont bar either evocation or necromancy (and to a lesser extent conjuration or illusion) they will likely have all the fire and brimstone that they will need.

Sarvis wrote:When you change specialization, what happens to spells you learned? For instance, say you were specialized as an Invoker, and had banned enchantment... then switched to being an Enchanter and banned Invocation. Do you lose the Invocation spells, or just can't prepare them anymore?


I would expect that you would remake your character from the ground up, should you choose to make a change so dramatic, and that it will be much like the process involved when 2.0 goes live and you convert your old characters to the new system.

Sarvis wrote:Also, with the whole class switching thing... is there any penalty for doing it? I can easily see players switching their class to whatever is best suited for the next zone they plan on, thus making the limitations for specialization relatively meaningless.


I get the impression that this is not the sort of thing you do on a whim, and that there is some measure of difficulty (most likely a fairly extensive quest) involved in such an adjustment. It is also very possible that there will be a limit to the number of times such a change can be made.
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Postby Gormal » Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:02 pm

How will currently completed quest spells be handled?

Can I switch my invoker to an enchanter now while keeping inferno? Will my ex-elementalist continue to fire embody people despite being a plain wizard?
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Postby Lilira » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:24 pm

Will suggestions be made on what to select if we wish to keep characters as close to a current class when its time to cross over?

For instance, I have a necro, invoker, and enchanter, all over level 44. Once the wizard class comes in I've got three high levels to wiggle around... and though I expect I'll aim them towards the appropriate schools as necessary, I'm just curious to see if there will be help for those folk who aren't as familiar with them.

(Though I sincerely hope spells like Tasha's Hideous Laughter make the list.. I'll start laughing the first time it lands.)

I would not be surprised to see people start writing spell lists for zones though. "Hmm.. going to Izans. Sleep, ummmm Hold Person for the battle clerics, Bull's Strength and Cat's grace on the MT!! Of course keeping a Mage Armor for me, and Mmmm... flaming sphere to toss in and merrily set things on fire. Oh and Tasha's Hideous Laughter on that dang battle bard!"

Shev? Will there be Sorcs? I could see them working the way bard spells work kinda... I'm just curious.
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Postby Vipplin » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:18 pm

I'm hoping that when we convert we keep our xp and that a 50 Enchanter requires more xp than a 50 Invoker. Even so it would truly be a windfall to change voker to enchanter and carry that xp over I think. I wear my grinding scars on Iyce's sleeve :P

Having said that... if you're a fully quested invoker, you probably wouldn't want to lose the ability to cast Inferno by switching to Enchanter... I'm assuming (hoping) you can't just change the quests you've completed.
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Postby Cirath » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:59 pm

Vipplin wrote:I'm hoping that when we convert we keep our xp and that a 50 Enchanter requires more xp than a 50 Invoker.


They almost certainly won't require different amounts of experience. They are all the same class now: Wizard. It would be sort of like making a fighter who chose the combat expertise feat take a different amount of experience to level than one that took power attack instead.

Also consider that if the experience tables follow the example of pen and paper, then every class will require the exact same amount of experience to reach each level. Different exp tables for different classes are relics of second edition.
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Postby Eilistraee » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:09 am

Certain high level, often called 'class defining' quest spells will be limited to specialists in those schools. Thus a non-abjurer specialist would be able to learn stone skin (provided it is not a banished school), but a spell such as Dragonscales would be restricted solely to those who have specialized within that school.

The ability to change your specialization will be governed by the same general rules as allowing you to reselect feats and other aspects of you character build. That being that you will have a certain, limited number of chances to alter your character. I personally don't know if there will be chances to reset specialization on top of the character resets; that's a question for Shevarash.

Spells that your character knew previously that fall under a banned school will be inaccessible. If your invoker decides instead to specialize in transmutation, the Evocation spells you knew would be unavailable. I don't know however, if you will retain quested spells if you reselect a specialization again and unban the school.

Shevarash and I have spoken about liches, and at this time I don't believe it is our intent to revert the lichdom change. Those discussions were a little while ago however, and Shevarash may have other thoughts on it already.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:28 am

Eilistraee wrote:Shevarash and I have spoken about liches, and at this time I don't believe it is our intent to revert the lichdom change. Those discussions were a little while ago however, and Shevarash may have other thoughts on it already.



As I don't really play many other castes save my lich I appreciate the reponse. And I for one hope that reverting is at most an option but no a demand. I want to keep the lich I have had for the past number of years the same, a lich. I have no intention of wanting to change his class.

Though I do wonder how this will all affect this one specific class as regardless of how specialized the other classes are (i.e. enchanter, invoker, etc) I always considered the lich the most specialized with what's invovled.

So, I hope we can get a solid update at this specialist class if possible? Thanks for the response again.
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Postby Thilindel » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:03 am

I feel lich is the ultimate class for fun overall. Lots of challenge and power both. I really hope it's its own uniqueness that it pretty much is now. It would be nice, however, for them to be more rounded against certain groups of mobs, like golems..for area spells. rain of blood is kinda stinky!
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Postby Boboloppe » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:27 am

I can't say that I've ever wanted another mudder to be wrong in my life.

what cirath said about all mages having the same exp table really bothers me. the simple reason for this is that the new version of invokers (evokers) are dedicated to dealing damage and as it stands now that is the main area most players gain exp enchanters or anything similar to them in the new version will be dedicated to preventing damage an area that to my knowledge hasn't been made as effective as dealing damage in exping.

I think that once you specialize you should have an exp table modification. otherwise people who want to play the defencive mages that groups need to have will be penilized for there choice while evokers will be rewarded.
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Postby Lilira » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:25 pm

It has been stated in other threads that XP will not be dished out the same as in 2.0.

Sheverash wrote:EXPERIENCE

- Reworked to encourage group play and exploration while reducing the "grind".




That was in the very first post Shev made with regards to Toril 2.0.

Lets not get hyper about XP "tables" until we see what things look like or Shev gives us more info.
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Postby Cirath » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:48 pm

Boboloppe wrote:the simple reason for this is that the new version of invokers (evokers) are dedicated to dealing damage...


You are still thinking of the mages in terms of what they can and can't do now, rather than what it has been stated that they will be capable of.

Boboloppe wrote:...enchanters or anything similar to them in the new version will be dedicated to preventing damage...


I think you mean abjurers. With any luck, enchanters will have hordes of charmed mobs to do their bidding.

Boboloppe wrote:I think that once you specialize you should have an exp table modification. otherwise people who want to play the defencive mages that groups need to have will be penilized for there choice while evokers will be rewarded.


How exactly does this plan work for the abjurers who did not take evocation as one of their barred schools (also consider that there are a lot of damage spells that are not in the evocation school)? How about the non-specialized wizards? Where do they fit in?
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Postby moritheil » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:46 pm

The one thing I can say to everyone is that it's essential to read 3.5 to get a grasp of where Shev is coming from with this post.

Having said that, I would be very interested in knowing whether the "alternate features" or their analogues are going to be available. For example, will the conjurer have the option to use the "rapid summoning" feature? He's going to be giving up ability in other schools to focus on conjuring, so it would make sense if he could summon a fire elemental faster than any other type of wizard. (The vagueness of Shev's statement about a special ability related to school is tantalizing!)

Giving the abjurer the "instant protection" variant would also be very helpful for their survival and hence group utility in a pinch, while enhancing the thematic emphasis of specialization.

It is with some sorrow that I note that Diviner is not an available specialty. To be fair, Diviner, which loses only one school in 3.5, is probably too much of a hassle to code special spells for. It would also either be too powerful or nigh-worthless in many zones, as either the zone could be mapped at little risk by a Diviner sitting outside it (or in the first room), or nearly all zones would have such divinations blocked, making the Diviner a weaker generalist wizard.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:44 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:As I don't really play many other castes save my lich I appreciate the reponse. And I for one hope that reverting is at most an option but no a demand. I want to keep the lich I have had for the past number of years the same, a lich. I have no intention of wanting to change his class.


All liches making the 2.0 conversion will have the option of reverting to a Wizard. Otherwise they will remain Liches, about which more information will be posted in the near future.
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Postby selerial » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:46 pm

I have to admit that my initial reaction is a mix of trepidation and concern regarding this change. The core of my reaction is naturally quite simple and obvious - I spent a good deal of effort and had a tremendous amount of help from others (which I still appreciate) getting my "class defining" spell - Fire Embody. Now, as the details were light, I can't correctly assess how the changes will affect me should I decide to become a player again, but my gut reaction (assumption) is that Conjurers will be more like the Conjies of old, and that Fembo will become an Abjurer spell, as it's more of a "defensive enchantment". Whether that's true or not and whether Abjurers turn out to be sexy or not is, of course, something that I don't know yet.

I guess I'll have to see how the specifics are laid out before fully waving my hands in the air in panic.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:50 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Arilin Nydelahar wrote:As I don't really play many other castes save my lich I appreciate the reponse. And I for one hope that reverting is at most an option but no a demand. I want to keep the lich I have had for the past number of years the same, a lich. I have no intention of wanting to change his class.


All liches making the 2.0 conversion will have the option of reverting to a Wizard. Otherwise they will remain Liches, about which more information will be posted in the near future.


I do appreciate the response. And I hope it's fairly soon we find out what's in store for us undead types. Hopefully sooner, than later. :P
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Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:02 am

selerial wrote:Now, as the details were light, I can't correctly assess how the changes will affect me should I decide to become a player again, but my gut reaction (assumption) is that Conjurers will be more like the Conjies of old, and that Fembo will become an Abjurer spell, as it's more of a "defensive enchantment". Whether that's true or not and whether Abjurers turn out to be sexy or not is, of course, something that I don't know yet.


Actually, I think fire embody (and all the other embodiement spells) are more likely to be Transmuter spells, thought I don't know if that will alter your decisions any.
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:12 am

Sarvis wrote:When you change specialization, what happens to spells you learned? For instance, say you were specialized as an Invoker, and had banned enchantment... then switched to being an Enchanter and banned Invocation. Do you lose the Invocation spells, or just can't prepare them anymore?


They'd still be in your spellbook, but you would not be able to prepare or cast them.

Sarvis wrote:Also, with the whole class switching thing... is there any penalty for doing it? I can easily see players switching their class to whatever is best suited for the next zone they plan on, thus making the limitations for specialization relatively meaningless.


Its tied to the overall system in place for modifying and recreating parts of your character. It is not something you can just do on a whim, and will be better explained when the time draws closer.
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:17 am

Gormal wrote:How will currently completed quest spells be handled?

Can I switch my invoker to an enchanter now while keeping inferno? Will my ex-elementalist continue to fire embody people despite being a plain wizard?


You will keep your quest spells, except in the event where that spell is removed from the game. In that instance you will receive a different spell of equivalent power in its place.

Note that the top-tier quest spells you have now are not the ones that will be limited by specialty in 2.0 - so there's no problem with switching around and keeping your quest spells. Unless of course you choose to ban the school that those spells are in, but that can of course be reversed.
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Postby Boboloppe » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:24 am

I'm not gonna try and say that I'm right and others are wrong I'm simply going to pointout a few things that I think should be thought of with the new wizard system.

1. as long as you have dealing damage to a mob give exp the Idea of 1 exp table for all mages regardless of specialization drasticly favors mages who focus on areas of dealing damage above areas of defence.

2. if the above statement is true then a system like that will discourage new players from playing defencive mages.

3. it has been stated that new exp code in 2.0 will encourage grouping. it was also implied that this code will help the defencive mage. it is my belief that this is incorrect. becouse the damage dealing mage will gain the same bonus in addition to the advantage of dealing increased damage.
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Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:29 pm

Boboloppe wrote:3. it has been stated that new exp code in 2.0 will encourage grouping. it was also implied that this code will help the defencive mage. it is my belief that this is incorrect. becouse the damage dealing mage will gain the same bonus in addition to the advantage of dealing increased damage.


This all assumes that the experience system is based heavily on damage dealt. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume, since it has already been stated that experience gain will be adjusted to encourage grouping and assist low damage classes, that this is not the case, and it is more likely a system of even experience dispersal, with bonuses which increase with group size, or something similar to that?
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Postby Boboloppe » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:02 pm

no where to my knowledge has anything been said about 2.0 assisting low damage classes
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Postby Branthur » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:08 pm

Boboloppe wrote:no where to my knowledge has anything been said about 2.0 assisting low damage classes


True, but nowhere to my knowledge has anything been said about 2.0 assisting high damage classes either. :)
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Postby Disoputlip » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:50 pm

how is the race / mage class thing? Still no elf necromancers?
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Postby Lilira » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:05 pm

From my knowledge of 3.5 (If Shev is following this one too) any race can be any class.
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Postby Thilindel » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:43 pm

Since I know nothing about 3.5, is lich a class or race? Hell, what are undead for that matter? :(
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Postby Cirath » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:05 am

Thilindel wrote:Since I know nothing about 3.5, is lich a class or race?


Lich is a template, which makes it neither class nor race. It can be applied to any race, but requires significant knowledge of magic to achieve the transformation, so it is pretty much always a mage that becomes one. That is not to say that the mage has to be a necromancer. Or, at least, not as far as I know.

Of course, it is likely that lich will be open only to necromancy specialists in 2.0, though race may no longer be a limiting factor.

Thilindel wrote:Hell, what are undead for that matter?


All undead (with a few possible exceptions, like allips) are templates, which is to say they are adjustments that work off of the statistics of the base creature.
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:23 am

Cirath wrote:All undead (with a few possible exceptions, like allips) are templates, which is to say they are adjustments that work off of the statistics of the base creature.


Several common types of undead are templates, but MOST undead are simply creatures.

"Undead" is a creature type, which could theoretically be applied to any creature, but it isn't a template. If you want to make an "undead grey render," you could simply use the grey render stats and apply the Undead creature type. All Undead creatures are immune to sleep, charm, stun, disease, etc. This creature wouldn't be a zombie, it would be exactly what we said before... an undead grey render.

Skeletons, Zombies, Ghosts, Vampires, and Liches are templates, and rules are given to apply these templates to any creature. You start with a base creature, apply the Undead type as above, and then apply the template modifiers. Zombies, for example, get a natural armor bonus over the form they had in life, but they can only make one attack a round (regardless of how many limbs they have). If we apply the zombie template to our grey render, we now have a Grey Render Zombie.

Other undead, like Wraiths, Wights, Revenants, Spectres, Nightshades, Bodaks, etc, are creatures with their own stat blocks. You don't have "kobold wraiths" or "ogre wraiths" the way you do with zombies, you just have Wraiths.
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:42 pm

Shevarash wrote:
Gormal wrote:How will currently completed quest spells be handled?

Can I switch my invoker to an enchanter now while keeping inferno? Will my ex-elementalist continue to fire embody people despite being a plain wizard?


You will keep your quest spells, except in the event where that spell is removed from the game. In that instance you will receive a different spell of equivalent power in its place.

Note that the top-tier quest spells you have now are not the ones that will be limited by specialty in 2.0 - so there's no problem with switching around and keeping your quest spells. Unless of course you choose to ban the school that those spells are in, but that can of course be reversed.


So Liches can relo/gate now? :P
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:11 pm

Liches or Necros can cast whatever spells they want - so long as they didn't ban the schools they belong to.
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Postby Birile » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:15 pm

Shevarash wrote:Liches or Necros can cast whatever spells they want - so long as they didn't ban the schools they belong to.


So liches are going to be considered just another specialist wizard??
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Postby Shevarash » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:33 pm

I didn't say that at all...

They can cast whatever arcane spell they want so long as they have not banned that school. I have not spoken to any other facet of Liches yet.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:59 pm

Shevarash wrote:I didn't say that at all...

They can cast whatever arcane spell they want so long as they have not banned that school. I have not spoken to any other facet of Liches yet.


Sounds like a great idea for an update! Hint.
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Postby Kegor » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:49 am

Sounds like...
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:49 pm

Liches aren't finished. As soon as they are I'll write an update about them.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:16 pm

Can't blame me for hoping.
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Postby Malvareth » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:22 pm

I think this sounds really neat, but I do have some concerns. I know the staff is doing their best to keep things balanced, but the way it looks to me, this may be possible:

A wizard of any kind can still cast many of the spells from the schools that he hasn't forfeited. Thus, could an invoker who kept his enchantment school also cast stoneskin, haste and blur? Probably not dragonscales, but if the 2.0 game stays remotely similar to the current one, just the thought of an invoker with stoneskin makes me very skeptical.

Or what about the general wizard who hasn't specialized? Will he have access to spells from each school that are as powerful as the ones the current magic-user classes have that aren't quested? I know that there will be a lot of new spells, and probably a lot of old ones removed, but picture a wizard with stoneskin, force missiles, PW:B, displacement, undead and/or elemental tanks and so on. He might not have inferno, dscales and phantasmal tendrils (or 2.0 equivalents), but it still reeks of imbalance.

Could anyone confirm that this will either not be the case, or that the game will be shaped to remain balanced despite the above?
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Postby Eilistraee » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:46 pm

Mages will have access to general spells across the schools. So yes, an un-specialized mage (wizard/sorc) will indeed have access to displace, stone, blur and an array of damage spells.

But the way these spells will interact with the new system is also radically different. Blur and Displace, for instance both provide the same type of defense and would not stack their effects. The way that stoneskin, and later dragonscales, interact with getting hit has also changed from the way the mud knows them now.

It's daunting to consider the degree of power that it seems arcane spell users will wind up with such a vast array of spells to pick from, a balance of defense and offense with little seeming detriment to having them. The best that can be said however, is that it's a very different combat system from what we've known for the last five to six years.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:06 pm

I can confirm that our intention is to preserve balance. :)

One important thing to consider is that just having access to a spell does not make one particularly effective with it. Specialists receive significant bonuses to the spells of their chosen school, as well as receiving bonus spell slots. So sure, a generalist may be able to cast both force missiles and stoneskin - but neither will compare to the same spells when cast by an Invoker or Transmuter. It's up to the player to decide where their priorities lay - extreme effectiveness in one area, or jack-of-all-trades style?

Also note that every single spell has been rewritten, and many of them don't function at all the way they do in the current Toril. Stoneskin, for example is not particularly effective if you can't already tank well, and so the balance implications of giving a mage stoneskin are considerably different than they would be today.

The goal here is to give Mages more variety and freedom in their playing style, not to make them the uber class that can do everything. You may need to see it in action to understand how it all fits together, or maybe I just need to post more updates...
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:35 pm

i'm curious if necromancers will be much like they are now. will they gain? will they lose? will their pets suck royal ass? keep the same pets we have now?

quite frankly i was never impressed with undead in NWN (3.0 rules i believe). so i'm hoping we keep what is rather unique to this game and slap it on to a specialization?

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Postby Dalar » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:29 pm

Eilistraee wrote:Mages will have access to general spells across the schools. So yes, an un-specialized mage (wizard/sorc) will indeed have access to displace, stone, blur and an array of damage spells.

But the way these spells will interact with the new system is also radically different. Blur and Displace, for instance both provide the same type of defense and would not stack their effects. The way that stoneskin, and later dragonscales, interact with getting hit has also changed from the way the mud knows them now.

It's daunting to consider the degree of power that it seems arcane spell users will wind up with such a vast array of spells to pick from, a balance of defense and offense with little seeming detriment to having them. The best that can be said however, is that it's a very different combat system from what we've known for the last five to six years.


I have always assumed from my own tests that displace and blur do not stack. I know that if blur is up and a displace is cast, the first 10 or so hits will be misses, but the last few will usually be hits, then displace fades. After that, most hits are misses due to blur. In 2.0, is this "fixed" or is this intended?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:33 pm

Both spells work very differently, as does the combat engine. There's not really any comparison.
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Postby Birile » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:34 am

Not that this is D&D 3.5, but since Toril 2.0 is based off of a lot of D&D stuff, I thought I'd add that Blur is considered a watered-down version of Displace in D&D, and just as Eilistraee mentioned here, the two do not stack.

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