Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

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Shevarash
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Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby Shevarash » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:18 am

Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

The Forgotten Realms campaign setting that we are based on features a very rich pantheon of deities, and Toril 2.0 will take advantage of that in a new feature that will give clerics a little more variety and versatility.

Patron Deities

All characters will be able to select a patron deity from an in-game command. The deities available to your character will depend on your race and alignment. Choosing a deity is completely optional for all classes except Clerics. A Cleric of any race must choose a deity in order to cast spells, but they will also receive special benefits from their chosen deity. Non-clerics will receive little benefit for selecting a deity, although there will be some effects. Some very rare spells will only affect worshipers of a specific deity, or a deity of a specific alignment. In addition, some magical items may only be used by a worshiper of a specific deity. For example, a Holy Sword of Tyr would only be usable a paladin of Tyr, etc.

The first benefit a Cleric receives for choosing a Deity is an automatic proficiency feat for the deity's favored weapon. The second will be covered below.

Cleric Domains

Every deity is associated with specific concepts such as Good, Evil, War, Luck, etc that define that deities purview as an immortal. These concepts are also called domains, and every deity has at least five of them. In addition to the "conceptual" domains, non-human deities also feature race-specific domains. For example, Lloth gives access to the Drow domain, along with 4 normal domains.

When a Cleric chooses a deity they make select two of the domains on that deities list. Each domain gives the Cleric access to:

    - One bonus spell per circle that may only be prepared in the domain spell slot.
    - A granted power.

Domain Spells

Clerics have, in addition to their regular spell preparation slot, a domain spell slot where they may prepare only one of their domain spells.

Its a little confusing at first, so here's an example:

Foo is a cleric of Cyric. Cyric has five domains - Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Illusion, and Trickery. Foo decides to pick Chaos as his first domain, and receives the spell Protection from Law which he can only prepare in his 1st circle domain slot. For his second domain, Foo chooses Destruction and gets the Inflict Light Wounds spell. Foo only has one domain spell slot per circle, so he must pick between the two of these spells to prepare. Every spell circle, Foo will gain a new spell from each domain.

Some domain spells are unique to that domain, some are shared between domains, and some are just found on the cleric spell list. Either way, that extra spell slot gives the cleric access to a spell that fits their profile.


Domain Powers

In addition to spells, each domain also grants a special power. These granted powers are highly variable and can be either time-limited special abilities or passive abilities. To use the example above, the Chaos domain grants a passive power that causes all Chaos spells to be cast at a higher level. The Destruction domain grants the 'Smite' power, which is a 1/day powerful melee attack.


Conclusion

The new Deity & Domains system will allow clerics to customize themselves in new and interesting ways by picking a Forgotten Realms deity as their patron deity. This will also, hopefully, help promote interest in Forgotten Realms and role playing in general. The Cleric class will no longer be limited to one archetype but will attempt to fully represent the many different ways of playing a Cleric - from the peace loving healer on one end of the spectrum to the undead lord of destruction and evil on the other.

2.0 currently features:

    113 Forgotten Realms deities
    58 Domains
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Postby Yasden » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:46 am

I'd also like to point out that you can learn about the various deities in-game by checking out the following commands:

INFO WORSHIP

INFO RP

INFO GODS
-INFO RACE
-INFO <GOD_NAME>

The major races are covered (Human/Barbarian, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Gnome, Orc, Drow), along with some obscure deities, as well as the Chultan (which includes Sseth aka Merrshaulk) and the Mulhorandi pantheons.

Now would be an excellent time to start reading up on material if you wanted to get some comprehensive data on a particular Forgotten Realms deity in order to make a choice.
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby Ragorn » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:37 am

Shevarash wrote:2.0 currently features:

[list]113 Forgotten Realms deities
58 Domains

Holy shit.
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Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:24 am

I fully support this product and/or service.
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:10 pm

Yeah yeah, wizards and priests, wizards and priests.

Make with the Ranger info!

Please?
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Postby rylan » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:13 pm

Yum.

My only comment would be that it may be overwhelming to choose with the huge selection of dieties and domains.
I hope there will be some reccomendations/examples of dieties to help people who are creating new characters... for example choose diety A if you want to be a healer, choose B for deathpriest etc.
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Postby moritheil » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:41 pm

Awesome.

In 3.5, the cleric is easily one of the most customizable classes to play. A big part of that is the wide array of domains one can choose from. I look forward to seeing scholarly, swashbuckling, manipulative, and martial clerics! :D

Rylan - I think the domains that correspond to patrons will probably be listed during char creation. I can't imagine it working out otherwise.
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Postby Birile » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:10 pm

Can you provide specifics on how choosing a Deity as a non-cleric can affect a character?
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby Cirath » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:11 pm

Birile wrote:Can you provide specifics on how choosing a Deity as a non-cleric can affect a character?


Shevarash wrote:Non-clerics will receive little benefit for selecting a deity, although there will be some effects. Some very rare spells will only affect worshipers of a specific deity, or a deity of a specific alignment. In addition, some magical items may only be used by a worshiper of a specific deity. For example, a Holy Sword of Tyr would only be usable a paladin of Tyr, etc.


I'm guessing that there will be a fair bit more aligned spells (like divine blessing, holy word, unholy aura, etc.), as well as new restriction flags for equipment based on your religion (i.e. a holy symbol of Cyric will actually be restricted to those who choose that faith now, and a shield of the frostmaiden might only be worn by Aurilites).

My question is this: will there be a mechanism (perhaps something set up by the RP folks) for changing religions without doing a complete respec? Also, would paladins, APs, shamans, and druids be required to pick a faith as well (sure, they don't get domains, or any of the clerical benefits, but the first two at least are very definitely representatives for a church)?
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:32 am

It would be fantastic to see more reasons for non-clerics to pick a faith in the game. Maybe it won't really spawn more roleplaying or thematic cohesion, but it's always nice to hope that it will.

Rogues, for example, will already have reasons in the game, if those weapons already dedicated to a deity follow the names they have been given. Unfortunately, those deities are pretty predictable, and have always been that way. I suppose it hearkens back to the belief that there's really only one way to play a rogue, and one set template one must follow when one rolls a rogue character. You can be a good or evil cleric, you can be a just or psychotic paladin, you can be a peaceful or vengeful druid, but rogues are supposed to be evil, don'tcha know. This semi-official stance has been backed up more than once.

I know it's my own personal choice, but Ashiwi has always followed Sehanine, a perfect match for Ashiwi's character, and also a great deity for those elves who deal in the shadows, but choose not to follow the path of evil. The options are out there in Faerunian storylines, and it would be so nice to see them embraced within the game.
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Postby flib » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:21 am

woot! ok.. this get's the engine runnin :) haha. for a very... brief period of time. my title (guild title..) was garl's hand.. (they made me remove it heh.. no mention of any deities in the title! ooch) now I actually can be that! whoo hoo! bringin fiery destruction and jokes a plenty in the name of garl. that roxorz.. wonder what asez.. is gonna do.. vhaerun.. is so.. 1998.. hah..ooh an idea.. what about ranks.. like quests you could complete to give you more favor and recognition with the god. the more favor.. the more rare spells or better gear.. or something.. that could be super interesting..
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Postby Cirath » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:01 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Rogues, for example, will already have reasons in the game, if those weapons already dedicated to a deity follow the names they have been given. Unfortunately, those deities are pretty predictable, and have always been that way. I suppose it hearkens back to the belief that there's really only one way to play a rogue, and one set template one must follow when one rolls a rogue character. You can be a good or evil cleric, you can be a just or psychotic paladin, you can be a peaceful or vengeful druid, but rogues are supposed to be evil, don'tcha know. This semi-official stance has been backed up more than once.


I find your view of evil as a narrow, flat, and defining characteristic of a character to be offensive and degrading to those of us belonging to the slightly naughty crowd, and will be sicking a whorde of lawful evil lawyer clerics on you forthwith!

But seriously, ever since the 80's, any portrayal of a player character has been officially discouraged, due to the whole "D&D is a satanic cult initiation in disguise" phase that came around that time. As such, most rogues (that weren't intended to be the villains, at least) have been portrayed as neutral characters. Sure, Mask may be evil, but he has no qualms about embracing the light-fingered fence-riders. There are also a vast number of deities that make extensive use of the shady types among their flocks. Sure, the average strong arm mugger, blackmailer, cutpurse, or other professional criminal rogue is quite likely to be evil, but to say that they all (or even mostly) are is just silly.

Hell, even Cyric was neutral at first.
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Postby Cirath » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:06 pm

Hurray for double posts!
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Postby Sarell » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:29 pm

Sarvis wrote:Yeah yeah, wizards and priests, wizards and priests.

Make with the Ranger info!

Please?


There will be no changes to rangers in Toril 2.0, they will still use the previous combat system in a sort of parallel dimension, and they must all worship Shev.
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Postby Cirath » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:44 pm

I honestly think the board hates me today.
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby moritheil » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:19 pm

Cirath wrote:My question is this: will there be a mechanism (perhaps something set up by the RP folks) for changing religions without doing a complete respec? Also, would paladins, APs, shamans, and druids be required to pick a faith as well (sure, they don't get domains, or any of the clerical benefits, but the first two at least are very definitely representatives for a church)?


IIRC, druids in FR can get away with not picking a patron (they can choose to "venerate nature" in general), though many pick one. Paladins in FR are pretty much all holy (or unholy) warriors, so I think they have to have patrons. Shamans generally venerate "spirits" and/or ancestors, at least according to the 3.5 spirit shaman.

(Of course, it's quite possible that you already know all this and just want to know exactly what will be imped, but I'm reasonably sure someone could use the info.)
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Postby Lilira » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:29 pm

Cirath wrote:Hell, even Cyric was neutral at first.


*closes her gaping jaw*
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:20 pm

Cirath, it's not necessarily my opinion on how things should be. I have been informed by staff members how rogues "should" be, and told flat out that no rogue should ever be good aligned (yes, I know that the opinions of one or two staff members do not the opinions of the entire staff make). Over the past few years the stance on this has relaxed significantly, as you can tell by the fact that non-evil rogues are no longer completely shut out of the top notch gear, but the influence is still there.

I'm not trying to preach on how I think rogues should be, however. I'd just love to see these options opened up and explored to the potential that they have. The addition of deity-driven mechanics to the game is fantastic, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm totally psyched about the concept.

As a side note, I'd really, really, really LOVE to see the addition of an upstairs echo of a deity-personalized "pray" command for those players who have RP togged on. It would be a great tool for the roleplay staff on very rare occasions.
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby Oghma » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:02 pm

moritheil wrote:IIRC, druids in FR can get away with not picking a patron (they can choose to "venerate nature" in general), though many pick one.


Of course you don't have to pick a patron deity. However if you don't have a patron deity when you die, you get stuck in the wall of souls, and there's no chance for resurrection or living on in the afterlife amongst your god and his or her followers.

So if you don't want to pick a patron deity, I suggest you practice by laying very still and moaning and groaning every once in a while.
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby Ambar » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:09 pm

Oghma wrote:Of course you don't have to pick a patron deity. However if you don't have a patron deity when you die, you get stuck in the wall of souls, and there's no chance for resurrection or living on in the afterlife amongst your god and his or her followers.

So if you don't want to pick a patron deity, I suggest you practice by laying very still and moaning and groaning every once in a while.


so many responses .. not enough time :)
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Postby Lilira » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:12 pm

*rofl Ambar*
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby Ashiwi » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:18 pm

Ambar wrote:
Oghma wrote:So if you don't want to pick a patron deity, I suggest you practice by laying very still and moaning and groaning every once in a while.


so many responses .. not enough time :)


I'd so much rather have a heart-felt discussion with the deity.
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Re: Toril 2.0: Deities and Domains

Postby moritheil » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:52 pm

Oghma wrote:
moritheil wrote:IIRC, druids in FR can get away with not picking a patron (they can choose to "venerate nature" in general), though many pick one.


Of course you don't have to pick a patron deity. However if you don't have a patron deity when you die, you get stuck in the wall of souls, and there's no chance for resurrection or living on in the afterlife amongst your god and his or her followers.

So if you don't want to pick a patron deity, I suggest you practice by laying very still and moaning and groaning every once in a while.


Interesting. I thought it was an open question whether or not venerating nature equated to venerating Silvanus (or Rillifane, or whatever nature patron is most appropriate.) That is, even if a human doesn't explicitly follow Silvanus and just follows "nature," Silvanus still benefits and that human is still not counted by Kelemvor amongst the false or faithless.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:48 pm

I'm going to go make a thread in Toril 2.0 about alignment. I don't want to derail this one.
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Postby Yasden » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:30 am

Most tabletop rogue PC's are Chaotic Neutral. 'Nuff said.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:35 am

I very rarely let people play Chaotic Neutral. A lot of people think Chaotic Neutral means "I do whatever I want." CN is not a free meal ticket to consenquence-free action, nor is it carte-blanche morality. CN implies a certain amount of unpredictability, and players who choose CN must occasionally decide against taking the path to free and easy loot... otherwise, they start slipping toward Chaotic Evil ;)

I usually play Rogues Neutral Evil. NE is the me-first alignment, where allies and party members are great fun until they get in the way of the treasure ;)
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Postby Yasden » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:45 am

Well, not to split hairs, but I've always felt assassins (not rogues/thieves in general) were more of the NE alignment. I'll cite a good reference for anyone who wishes to learn about alignment.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_ ... _&_Dragons):

Chaotic Neutral

Chaotic Neutral is freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.

Chaotic neutral characters follows their whims. They are individualists first and last. They value their own liberty but do not strive to protect the freedom of others. They avoid authority, resent restrictions, and challenge traditions. Chaotic neutral characters don't intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, they would have to be motivated either by good (a desire to liberate others) or by evil (a desire to make others suffer).

Chaotic neutral characters may be unpredictable, but their behavior is not totally random - they are not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it. However, they do act on momentary whims, and are known to be unreliable. As some would say, "the only reliable thing about them is that they cannot be relied upon!"

A wandering rogue who lives both by work for hire and petty theft is an example of a chaotic neutral character.
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Postby Cirath » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:22 am

Ragorn wrote:I very rarely let people play Chaotic Neutral. A lot of people think Chaotic Neutral means "I do whatever I want." CN is not a free meal ticket to consenquence-free action, nor is it carte-blanche morality. CN implies a certain amount of unpredictability, and players who choose CN must occasionally decide against taking the path to free and easy loot... otherwise, they start slipping toward Chaotic Evil ;)


Blame the shmuck that rewrote the alignment description from the good old "mentally unstable" of second edition to the "free spirit" of 3.5.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:55 pm

Moving to the newly-created alignment thread ;)
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Postby Gormal » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:01 pm

MERCY?! YOU WANT MERCY?!


I'm CHAOTIC NEUTRAL!
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Postby Gruy » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:28 pm

uhm Paladins? no benefit or anything and not forced to pick a deity?

also where do paladins land with these changes? tank? healer? or still almost useless besides specific zones?
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Postby Cirath » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:07 pm

Gruy wrote:also where do paladins land with these changes? tank? healer? or still almost useless besides specific zones?


If they are fairly unchanged from pen and paper paladins, then they will be tanks nearly on par (though not quite as customizable) with fighters (or warriors, if you prefer to call them that). They will also be able to produce some respectable melee damage. However, I seriously doubt a paladin will ever be considered a healer in more than a very minor sense.
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Postby Mertak » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:50 am

Yasden wrote:I'd also like to point out that you can learn about the various deities in-game by checking out the following commands:

INFO WORSHIP

INFO RP

INFO GODS
-INFO RACE
-INFO <GOD_NAME>


Quite extensive, takes awhile to read through. If you give a poop, you might get started. ;-)

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Postby Marix » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:02 pm

The one question I have is...will having a certain diety not allow you to resurrect people that follow another diety? I know certain dieties are available to say neutral human clerics *wink* but say if i choose a diety who rpwise is at war or dislikes the diety of another player. Am I not allowed to group with/ resurrect followers of dieties which my diety dislike. (hope that makes sense...way too many dieties in these sentences)
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Postby Cirath » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:09 pm

Marix wrote:The one question I have is...will having a certain diety not allow you to resurrect people that follow another diety? I know certain dieties are available to say neutral human clerics *wink* but say if i choose a diety who rpwise is at war or dislikes the diety of another player. Am I not allowed to group with/ resurrect followers of dieties which my diety dislike. (hope that makes sense...way too many dieties in these sentences)


Such restrictions are extremely unlikely.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:40 pm

No, we won't be restricting things like healing or resses.

However, thats not to say that there won't be some other new
spells or abilities that only work with members of your faith - but such things would be rare novelties, not game-defining skills/spells.
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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:05 pm

Mmmm, possible faith healing.

(Faith Healing is a variant Cure Light Wounds spell that heals the maximum possible hit points, but only works on yourself or followers of your deity.)
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Shevarash OOC: 'I feature only the finest mammary glands.'

Silena group-says 'he was so fat and juicy..couldnt resist'

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