Toril 2.0: Weapon Enchantments

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Toril 2.0: Weapon Enchantments

Postby Shevarash » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:25 pm

Overview

Toril 2.0 features a wide array of weapon types (80 at last count), and an assortment of new feats and combat maneuvers to take advantage of them. We've also added a system for adding "proc-like" effects to weapons without having to actually code a proc for each one. This system allows us to create some very interesting weapons, and it is tied right into the combat engine which us allows to do some very cool things.

This system will also allow you to customize your own weapons by picking and choosing the enchantments you want. Read on for details.

Weapon Enchantments

There are currently about 40 different weapon enchantments in 2.0. Here are a few examples:

Acidic, Flaming, Frost, Shocking, and Sonic: These enchantments all add energy damage of the appropriate type to every single hit made with the weapon. This damage is integrated right into the combat engine and will display in the combat message. See screen shots below.

Acid Burst, Flaming Burst, Icy Burst, Shocking Burst, Sonic Burst: These enchantments cause the weapon to discharge an area-affect burst of the appropriate elemental type upon a critical hit.

Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, Anarchic: Weapons with these alignment-based enchantments do extra damage on every single hit with the weapon when attacking a target of the opposite alignment. For example, a Holy weapon does extra damage to evil characters, and an Anarchic weapon does extra damage to Lawful characters.

Bane - Bane weapons do extra damage on every single hit with the weapon when attacking the chosen bane race. For example, a Dragon Bane weapon does extra damage to all dragons.

Keen - These weapons have their critical range doubled, which means they will land critical hits twice as often.

Speed - This enchantment allows the weapon to make an extra attack every round.

Ghost Touch: These weapons deal damage normally against incorporeal creatures, depriving them of their bonuses to avoid damage and hits.

Returning: Thrown weapons with this enchantment automatically return to the owner.

Vampiric: Leeches hitpoints from the target to the wielder on critical hits.

Spellstoring: These weapons allow a spell caster to cast and store a spell inside of the weapon, to be discharged on command.

Everbright: This enchantment allows the weapon to discharge a bright flash of light that has a chance to blind enemies in a small radius.

This is just a sampling - there are many more weapon enchantments currently, and we anticipate adding yet more over time.

Weapon Customization

All of these new enchantments can be added to existing weapons, and the Areas staff will evaluate which weapons deserve them - either to replace or add to an existing proc.

Customizing Existing Weapons

Enchantments don't always come attached to a weapon though - and this is how customization comes into play. A "token" can be rewarded through a quest or zone that grants a specific or random enchantment. These tokens can then be redeemed at master weapon smiths scattered through the hometowns, who will put the specified enchantment on a weapon of your choosing - for a fee. The tokens are essentially spell components for binding the magic to the weapon.

Of course, every weapon can only take so much enchanting. Each weapon has a maximum number of enchantment points that can be spent on it, and each enchantment type is worth a number of points depending on its power. For instance, the flaming enchantment is worth 1 point, and vampiric is worth 3. You can add any combination of enchantments to a weapon until you reach the maximum. Each successive enchantment will however cost more money (and the token component).

Build Your Own Weapon

Adding enchantments to existing weapons is fun, and a good way to customize your combat experience. However, if you don't want to pick from the existing weapons out there you can purchase a masterwork weapon of any type from weapon smiths throughout the realms. These weapons start off very plain, but can be upgraded via weapon enchantments which will change the way that they look.

When your custom weapon has received the maximum number of enchantments it can hold, you may elect to give your weapon a unique name and description, for a fee. This process will be automated but under the oversight of the staff to prevent any silliness.

In short, you can now build and name your own legendary weapon, decked out with the powers that you want. Enough said.


Screen shots

Here's a couple of screen shots of weapon enchantments in action. Note that these enchantment combinations were chosen at random, and some of the messages may look differently before 2.0 is finished. Note that only the first one has a "burst" proc, and thus the others will not proc on critical hits.

Flaming/Flaming Burst Spiked Chain:

Image

Unholy/Icy double-bladed sword:

Image

Anarchic/Sonic spiked maul:

Image

Summary

I think this post pretty much speaks for itself. The power to customize and build weapons of any type is something I've wanted to see in the MUD for a long time. I hope you're all as excited about it as I am!
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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:53 pm

Wow.

That'll be a fun system to play with.
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Postby Ambar » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:42 am

very nice :) thank you for the screenshots!!
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Postby amolol » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:44 am

i just had an evilgasm
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce

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Postby Lilira » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:58 am

looks lovely, but what's all the patience stuff in the procs??
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:16 am

Those are the "god messages" it shows when a mere mortal mob tries to attack a staff member. :)
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:36 am

What's with the 'massive pierce' doing 'barely wounds'? Or am I reading that incorrectly?
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:25 am

The combat messages have been changed to describe the relative power of your attack in addition to the relative amount of damage the mob has sustained.

So, my "massive pierce" was a powerful attack, but the mob still has most of their hitpoints left, so it was barely wounded. This lets you see both how powerful your attack was in addition to the mob's relative condition.

I know it's a little jarring at first, but I think it works great once you get used to it.
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Postby Lilira » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:47 pm

Shevarash wrote:Those are the "god messages" it shows when a mere mortal mob tries to attack a staff member. :)


rofl.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:47 pm

"powerful anarchic sonic"

Its like the dictionary threw up adjectives all over 2.0
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:13 pm

Yeah, unfortunately that's how it goes. My epic Dervish wields a Holy Magebane Starmetal Falchion of Ghost-Touching Spell Storage. You can theoretically stack more modifiers onto a weapon than proper English should allow ;)

You might even say, your weapons can have myriad enchantments.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:25 pm

I actually included the anarchic sonic one just because I found the adjectives humorous - and I wanted to stress that you can create this stuff however it appeals to you - even if it sounds silly to someone else.

For what it's worth, the most keywords it will show in the damage messages is 2. You won't ever see a "holy flaming icy baneful sonic anarchic pierce" or anything. When multiple elemental damages are occurring at once it displays the word "elemental" color coded to the types present.

Also, I have to say that I find it pretty amusing that the message adjectives are what we're talking about in this thread.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:30 pm

Honestly, weapon enchantments don't do it for me. Adjectives however, do.
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:49 pm

Grumdikanikus ******ANIHILATES******* a big nasty Giant with his Fork of Anarchic Doneness!
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Postby moritheil » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:50 pm

Thanks, Shev!

Ragorn wrote:You might even say, your weapons can have myriad enchantments.
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:54 pm

Virtual Plethora....Even of Enchantments.

Me Likes!
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:39 pm

Ragorn wrote:
You might even say, your weapons can have myriad enchantments.


Don'y you mean "a myriad of" enchantments?

*duck*
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Postby Dalar » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:22 pm

So when is Toril 2.0 coming out?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:31 pm

Shevarash wrote:Also, I have to say that I find it pretty amusing that the message adjectives are what we're talking about in this thread.

Well, ok. More to the point, then.

Hot shit... I've always wanted to build Ragorn's Longbow of Indiscriminate Justice... maybe someday I'll get a chance :)

The two-dimensional combat messages are a long time coming, and a great addition to the game.

The weapon modification system is will bring a whole new level of customization to character building, but it could require some attention down the line. It would be disappointing if the system produced a "best" combination that led to cookie-cutter weapon design. "Holy" is, by the way most campaigns are created, a far better weapon modifier for players than "unholy" in the p&p game. However, both mods hold the same cost, because WotC doesn't want to force DMs into skewing their campaigns toward good-aligned characters. In reality, and probably on Toril, the "holy" mod should probably cost more than "unholy." Just an example, maybe the worst offender I can think of from D&D. But then, other mods (like wounding) are way overcosted and nobody ever really uses them...

As time goes on, you're going to see a repeat of the "Fighter golf bag" issue. In a game where equipment accumulates and zones are repeatable, players will be able to build a weapon for each zone or set of zones that they want to do. Imagine each Fighter doing Brass with a Holy Axiomatic Longsword of Efreeti-Bane Frost. Doing Jot? Flaming Holy Anarchic Longsword of Giantbane. Crypts? Holy Axiomatic Longsword of Ghost Touch. I worry that in time, a few years down the road, customizable weapons will take over game-loaded weapons in terms of power and utility, and players are going to be faced with a lack of spawned items better than what they can build by doing easy zones for tokens. To combat this, I'd suggest either a higher modifier cap for spawned weapons, or powerful mods on spawned weapons that are unavailable as tokens. Custom weapons are great, until everyone uses the same ones :)
Last edited by Ragorn on Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Birile » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:06 pm

I'm sorry, did everyone miss the fact that we can now customize our weapons' names and descriptions? For all of you restring people out there...
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:43 pm

Ragorn wrote: In reality, and probably on Toril, the "holy" mod should probably cost more than "unholy."


Perhaps reversed for evils?

(Note, I never really got far playing evil so if you guys don't constantly fight good aligned mobs there's no need to jump down my throat.)
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Postby Botef » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:26 am

That all looks pretty cool. Now I'm curious about how arrow's and other projectiles that use a weapon base might look. Can similar customizations be made to arrows/bolts/stones (slings)? Will projectiles receive these enchantments if the base weapon has them in addition to other benefits? Also curious how enchantments will translate to other pieces of equipment but Im sure you'll save that for another thread.
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Postby Grumdikanikus » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:23 am

Would this mean there is a now a possibillity of Arrows of returning?

If so, I might quit playing a spellcaster.
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Postby ssar » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:54 am

You get the prickly jockstrap of recall from a bottomless bag of the Tinkers.
You get a small green glowing flask from a bottomless bag of the Tinkers.
You apply a small portion of the acid from a small green flowing flask to the prickly jockstrap of recall which takes on a feint glow of green itself..
Your acidic enchantment succeeds on your the prickly jockstrap of recall!
You get a small blue glowing scroll from a bottomless bag of the Tinkers.
You recite a small blue glowing scroll which turns to dust in your hands, whilst concentrating on the prickly jockstrap of recall which takes on a feint glow of blue itself..
Your shocking enchantment succeeds on your the prickly jockstrap of recall!
You strap on the prickly jockstrap of recall (glowing).
You feel a burning sensation..
You jump at a strange tingling sensation..

---

Ohh this sounds like fun!
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Postby Taka » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:14 pm

This sound interesting. Hopefully you will make this newbie friendly rather then make it only for those who already have countless holes filled with fancy weapons. The typical newbie would likely enjoy working towards the goal of creating a weapon that becomes better and better with time.

One concern I have on the other hand is that if it is not balanced well, it could make certain class irrelevant, and others overpowered. What most commonly happens with games that have magical weapons is that it render the PC spells useless. Already on this mud cleric/shaman blind is mostly pointless (as likely to proc from one of those weapon most of you have as to land from PC casting it yet casting it means not doing damage/healing and need to pray). Healing weapons tend to be the most balance offsettings type rendering most healer type useless for most situations.

How will caster classes be adjusted to continue to be relevant (or will we be back to the days of sorc who has all kind of fency nukes that only tickle the mob and therefore only use stone)? How will the healage from weapon work? if it is like vamp curse, this will make rogue one of the best tank around and will make mage/priest crappy. How will invoker be up to par? How will cleric managed to do damage at a speed that will enable them to level has fast?

The "spell storage" sounds interesting and might be a way to help with some of this, but only if done in a way that scales enough. Some suggestions for way to do the recharge part:
- Cast recharge spell (spell that does nothing but make the weapon ready to accept spell
- Cast actual spell you want to load in the weapon
- Weapon become charged with (PC level - level at which PC gets spell)/5
- Add a delay of X (like 30 seconds) after last time the weapon was used (hit/miss/proc) before it can be recharged again (to discourage recharging mid fight)
- Create a way to make weapons cast spells like staves (once per person in the room). This should only be possible for spells that are not multi target to start with, take more time to prepare and not allow too many charges.
- Have a % of chances that the weapon proc fire while being used (maybe the enchantment being not that stable) with say 50% chance that it result in a reduction in charges left (otherwise number of charges left is unaffected).
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Postby Cirath » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:43 pm

Taka wrote:The "spell storage" sounds interesting and might be a way to help with some of this, but only if done in a way that scales enough. Some suggestions for way to do the recharge part


Assuming that this enchantment doesn't differ much from the tabletop version, I think you worrying a bit too much. A spell storing weapon can hold one single target spell of third circle or lower at a time, which can be discharged upon any successful hit. Now certainly there are some mighty useful spells in that level range, but considering that they have reletively easy saves, and are over all less useful than what the casters in the group are likely to be using, I would say that it is not going to make any mages feel slighted. Besides, the likelyhood of the person using said weapon being able to recharge it himself is fairly low, so he has to rely either on a caster in his group willing to burn a spell on him at every mem, or a mob slinging something handy specifically at him.
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Postby Taka » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:26 pm

he has to rely either on a caster in his group willing to burn a spell on him at every mem


That's my point, if you get vamp weapon (that work 100% of the time and no need to recharge) what do spell users get?

Already when zonning as a spell caster, I sometime find I have to limit how much casting I do has we often dont have the time to mem them back. This lead to me getting bored has i have nothing interesting to do other then watching myself miss.

which can be discharged upon any successful hit

I thought I had read it would be on request (I don't care all that much on this one).
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Postby Tasan » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:54 am

Taka wrote:That's my point, if you get vamp weapon (that work 100% of the time and no need to recharge) what do spell users get?


As it is now, vamp does not in any way replace a healer for fighting at your own level. Using vamp on much lower level things that cannot hit you only serves to speed up the utterly boring regen times here.

Taka wrote:Already when zonning as a spell caster, I sometime find I have to limit how much casting I do has we often dont have the time to mem them back. This lead to me getting bored has i have nothing interesting to do other then watching myself miss.


If you are spamming offense instead of memming out after your top 3 circles, yes you are going to waste time. Learn to use effective offense and when to mem out. The game has changed drastically from the days where you spent every spell you had and then spent 5 minutes memming where melee twiddled their thumbs in boredom. Beyond that, play another class...
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:55 pm

The weapon enchantments have been approached with a careful consideration for balance, as these could potentially be very problematic. They are also intended not just for the highest levelers but for players of all levels. The enchantments themselves are broken out into tiers of relative power, and while you aren't likely to find a Vampiric enchantment at level 15, you could very possibly come into a Flaming enchantment to put on your weapon. That weapon could htne be brought all the way to level 50, adding additional enchantments as you go, and eventually renaming it to suit you.

As for how casters are being adjusted to still be relevant, well...check out the announcement threads about wizards. And can you say "hundreds of new spells and effects?" In short, the weapon enchantments are an important part of the game, but their effects are carefully chosen to add to one's capabilities without undermining the functionality of the casting classes.

I hope that addresses the concerns in this thread thus far.
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Postby Marix » Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:25 pm

Will we be able to customize other items of equipment as well?
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:09 pm

Not at first, though we do have plans for other types of equipment customizing and enchanting. We'll start with weapon enchantments and see how that goes before taking the plunge in other areas.
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Postby Marix » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:29 pm

how will curse item be incorporated? Will it have any problems merging with these other enchantments? It's supposed to have negative consequences to the weapon it's casted on.
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Postby Marix » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:33 pm

whoops never mind..was asked.
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Postby Inames » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:51 am

i love the idea, but please tell me they wont work on khanjari's(and other such eq)... rogues like Teba(as example cuz i know hes overpowered by about 30 dam :P) are waaaaaayy over powered as it is, if you could enchant khanjaris it will make them powerful nearly to the point of the strongest dragons with lich proc's :P , being able to leach life and proc'ing a vit that can be stacked with a real vit AND embods will make rogues the new tia decked out self healing tanks without all the tia gear; and even more damage from elements/banes/etc. on top of the damage+ proc they already have.. it would kill the point to have invokers in groups for the most part, would ruin any sort of fun in acheron, (as if the khanjaris dont do those things already) it would be nice to have khanjari's/tia gear/etc even more powerful but it would almost eliminate the use of damage classes in groups altogether not just vokers. im not saying it wouldnt be nice, but it would spoil alot of the fun of the game IMHO when you can cut out a couple tanks and extra damage classes for several zones(not the verrry high lvl ones) just so you dont have to split the loot as much. :P

so just as long as you cant add these things to khanjaris and other over powered items like them (tia gear, etc.) i will stop worshiping auril and worship you instead shev :) its a GREAT idea and i cant wait till we get to test 2.0 :) it will rock

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Postby Jhorr » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:13 pm

Gotta admit, the lad has a passion for the game...

Hopefully, the various enchantments are more functional than 'window dressing' ...
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Postby Lilira » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:17 pm

Inames wrote:so just as long as you cant add these things to khanjaris and other over powered items like them (tia gear, etc.) i will stop worshiping auril and worship you instead shev :)


Ahhhh.. the fickleness of youth. Poor Frosty goddess. *grin*
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:45 pm

I actually like the fact that you can 'name' weapons in 2.0. But, if all weapons can now be customized, doesn't that take away from the magic of having a procing weapon? Basically all weapons will have procs now, which basically means the idea of a 'proc' is something of the past. Obviously, while some procs are still, in theory, specific to certain items, the magic behind owning a procing weapon is gone.

Anything that can be said about this? Just hoping that while this appears to add more to the game, it doesn't end up taking away from it. Kinda goes with Avak's post in 2.0 forum.
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Postby Yasden » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:49 pm

Procedures (procs) are nothing like enchantments. Procs work on ALL mobs, regardless of race, class, alignment, gender, etc. Unless of course it's an alignment-based spell (unholy/holy word).

Enchantments merely add a specific "bane" to the item. Elemental, alignment, race, etc. These enchantments only do bonus damage to those types of creatures.
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:34 pm

Yes, I know Dan :) But you're only talking about 3 of the enchantments on the list, just specifically the ones that depend on the mob.

But what about speed? everbright? vampiric? Those don't depend on mob or race. Goodbye ebony longsword.
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Postby Marthammor » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:21 am

From what I've gathered reading this, not all weapons will be able to receive enchants. It will likely depend on some kind of keyword or quality number or something given to the item that sets it apart from other items.
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Postby Cirath » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:51 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Obviously, while some procs are still, in theory, specific to certain items, the magic behind owning a procing weapon is gone.


Shevarash wrote:A "token" can be rewarded through a quest or zone that grants a specific or random enchantment.


If you still have to quest or zone for it, then how is it any less special than questing or zoning for a specific proc weapon?
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:33 pm

No, you're right Cirath, it won't make it any less "special". But what it does mean, in theory mind you, is that I can take a weapon with better stats overall, and give it the blind proc. Hell, I might even be able to make it haste and blind.

Granted, we really don't know the specifics of the system, numbers, etc. But that's kinda what I wanted to know. I don't care if you have to quest or zone to get the 'token'. If in the end it means that I can have a hasting/blinding weapon, I think that's a little too much for the game. You know, like khanjaris.
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Postby Birile » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:13 pm

Perhaps this is something that is being/has been addressed by the "enchantment points" Shevarash mentioned--if a weapon can have at most 9 enchantment points and both blind and haste were 5 enchantment points eached, they couldn't be stacked (using numbers as an example).

*shrug*
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:18 pm

Exactly Birile, we really don't know how it'll work. I'm just giving my opinion on how the points should be considered, if anything. But I do think those points need to be thought out well, as well as how the weapons will given points too. Sounds like a sick amount of work btw.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:43 pm

You can be assured that the most careful consideration has been and will continue to be given to balancing these enchantments. There are still advantages to many proc weapons that have unique properties or combinations of existing enchantments.

Just to assuage some fears, you are not going to just stumble upon Speed or Vampiric enchantments - those are two of the highest end enchantments and I included them just to give an idea of the range of power. Weapon enchantments range in power from shop-level gear all the way up to Tiamat equipment. This is NOT a new way to dump tons of power all over the player base, it is a carefully designed system to allow you to customize and build a balanced weapon that suits your character and playing style.
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Postby Botef » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:57 pm

Overall do you think this will add to or deter the 'golfbag' effect of fighters, particularly since fighters (hopefully) will be more practical as damage dealers and not just tanks. Can we expect to carry around even more weapons at any given moment or will this enchantment system make it easier to just carry a few choice weapons and cut back on the number of pieces of flare you have to have, cause brad over there has 30 pieces.
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Postby Birile » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:40 pm

Botef wrote:Overall do you think this will add to or deter the 'golfbag' effect of fighters, particularly since fighters (hopefully) will be more practical as damage dealers and not just tanks. Can we expect to carry around even more weapons at any given moment or will this enchantment system make it easier to just carry a few choice weapons and cut back on the number of pieces of flare you have to have, cause brad over there has 30 pieces.


I don't get it--what is the problem with a golfbag full of weapons that are better suited to any given situation??

You don't hear mages going around saying, "Damn, I have to sit around and mem different spells for different situations--area damage, targeted damage, solo action, group action ( :lol: ), etc. Woe is me, I wish I had one spell that did it all!"

I don't understand why some melee characters/tanks moan about being versatile. Complain about not being as good as magic damage and then complain about having 10 weapons (and shields, sleeves, yadda yadda) with 10 different procs to suit 10 different situations? OMG.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:56 pm

Try carrying half a dozen swords, shields and suits of platemail around... then get back to us. :P

The difference is that a mage needs a couple books for his versatility, while a warrior needs tons of storage space and tons of macros to switch between different modes. I used to have a set of travel gear and battle gear, and managing/switching it around became a pain pretty quickly.

It would help if you could assign a unique keyword to everty piece of equipment... but that idea got shot down when I posted it. :(
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Postby Birile » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:05 pm

Sarvis wrote:Try carrying half a dozen swords, shields and suits of platemail around... then get back to us. :P


I'm a halfling and also have a halfling warrior alt--what's your point? :)

Know the zone you're going to and plan accordingly. Everyone has access to storage.
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Postby Cap'n Touk » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:24 pm

I love the golf bag. It's much more engaging to fight 3 mobs, ebony blind the first 2, flee out and rescue to target just one at a time, maybe suck back a potion or 2 to stay alive, and switch to your fire proc. weapon because you're fighting a troll, then just bringing an invoker and areaing everything to death. I'm very hopeful that 2.0 will make the golf bag useful, and make us find a reason to squeeze every bit of skill out of our class we can.

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