Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

News and information on updates to the game.
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Shevarash
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Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:09 am

Details can be found here:

http://www.torilmud.org/news/blogs/index.php/2009/11/08/game-update-racial-code-expanded

Please feel free to use this thread for comments, feedback, bugs, etc.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:37 am

Why the addition of "massive" between huge and gargantuan? I don't recall that being 3.5 canon.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:13 pm

Bug(s): It's crashy.

Bug: Everything I've seen so far on infravision has shown up as 'tiny', including a (Gargantuan) dragon.

Bug (fixed): Fire and air elementals are now physical entities. They can bash and bump into stuff, and they suck at tanking.

Bug: Spectres, wraiths, ghosts, and shadows are now physical entities.

Bug: Probably shaman spirits too.

Bug?: I failed power word blind on a mob 61 times in a row. Saves changed?

Wrong size: An orc battlechanter, world load, showed up as size (None)

Wrong size: A huge tundra yeti, on Ten Towns trail, showed up as (Medium)

Wrong size: The ground hog, north of BG, showed up as (Medium)

Wrong size: An ENORMOUS cave worm, in CM, showed up as (Medium)

Suggestion: Add size information to glance.

Suggestion: Put a space between the condition sentence and the size info.

Suggestion: Have 'reduce' move you down 2 sizes, but 'enlarge' only move you up 1. This preserves anti-bash but still prevents players from bashing too much big stuff.

Suggestion: Give every class the 'lore' skill, so we don't all have to buy a million identify scrolls to figure out that a fire elemental has no legs.
Last edited by Kindi on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:04 pm

Ragorn: 10 is a nice even number, and I wanted to move Giants up a bit for balance purposes without making them the same size class as larger creatures.

Kindi: Thank you, I'll look into all of these ASAP.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:19 pm

Fire/Air elementals are incorporeal again - you'll have to re-summon them though. Also fixed Spirit (spirits, ghosts, spectres, etc) race the same way.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:22 pm

Bug: New characters start out at size (None) and apparently lacking most item slots. Quitting out and re-entering puts them at proper size.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:17 pm

Just fixed the most common crash bug - it'll get into the game the next time it crashes.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:27 pm

Bug: consider also shows every mob to be 'tiny', just like infravision, instead of a size comparison.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:59 am

Wrong size?: earth elementals are now size (Medium) where previously they were able to bash some large mobs like demons.

Wrong size?: Demons are now size (Medium) as well? Lili said they are anyway.
Last edited by Kindi on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:52 am

Suggestion: add new help files such as 'help size', update 'help attribute', add references to what size a race is in each of the 'help race' files, etc.
Last edited by Kindi on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:19 am

Bug: The 'lore' skill is supposed to be able to identify mobs/players, but it doesn't allow them as targets.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Birile » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:29 am

Thanks for changing Spirits, but ghosts and spectres summoned by liches/necromancers are Higher Undead. I don't know which ghosts and spectres you're talking about when you lumped them in with the Spirits but they're not the ones I care about. Please fix.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:49 am

Failure: The 'lore' skill even at skill 95 still fails too often.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Malia » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:24 am

Maybe make a size smaller then small... my chanter with the -ht cloak from greyday was 1 " tall, thats not small, small covers way to much. smallest needs to be like Tiny, then small then larger tiny being under 5" or something.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:48 am

The fix for undead I made earlier today didn't quite work. It's coming...
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:50 am

Lots of fixes:

  • Incorporeal undead are incorporeal again.
  • Air/Fire elementals are incorporeal again.
  • Lore will now work on mobs and will succeed more often.
  • Infravision will show the new mob sizes.
  • Consider shows the new mob sizes.
  • Fixed vampiric weapon enchantments.
  • Glance shows the new mob sizes.
  • New characters should now have their races set properly.
  • Fixed some crash bugs.

I'm going to start a new thread in Gameplay Discussion to track mobs that have the wrong sizes.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:05 pm

Bug: everything on infravision is now showing as 'medium' regardless of size

Suggestion: have consider show the difference in size rather than actual size - "they are bigger than you", "they are gigantic compared to you", etc. This is how both consider and infravision used to work I think
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:03 pm

Will fix the infra bug. I don't think the size comparison is really relevant information anymore, since we have standardized them and the raw information should be more useful. I'm open to arguments the other way though.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Thrand » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:22 pm

What size range can mobs bash?
Can a mob bash 3 sizes up or down?
2, 1?

Since you have made enlarge/reduce move a pc 1 size
this info would be helpful.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:23 pm

1) We already have 2 or 3 other ways of seeing actual mob size (look, glance, infra)

2) Consider is about seeing how tough something is relative to your ability - level statement is relative, size could be too

3) You might not remember you were reduced or enlarged so a size reference showing on 'con' whether you should be able to bash or not be bashed by something in a concise manner might be more helpful than saying 'ok he's giant and i'm medium therefore no bash oh but wait i'm enlarged so does that make me big? or large? what comes in between medium and giant again?'

As an example I didn't notice 'giant' wasn't a size until I followed the link from the top of this page and I also didn't realize there were several steps between medium and massive which I think is what I was going for not sure.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:41 pm

Thrand: All characters (whether mob or pc) can only bash within one size level difference. Sorry that wasn't clearer in the news post.

Kindi: That makes sense for the consider command. I'll give some thought on how best to present it.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Thrand » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:46 pm

Since reduce/enlarge moves you one size,
you can not prevent bashing by mobs that are
your original size, or am I missing something?
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:12 pm

No, you're correct. It would only prevent/allow bashing of mobs that are already one size category removed as currently implemented. None of this is set in stone of course, and I'm completely open to discussing changes to the system.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Thrand » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:55 pm

Current time is: Tue Nov 10 15:52:42 2009 (EDT)

Time elapsed, since boot-up: 0 days 17H 5M 5S

Total number of zones in world: 319

Total number of rooms in world: 61457
Total number of different mobiles: 17490
Total number of living mobiles: 40139

Total number of different objects: 15725
Total number of existing objects: 64753

So 17,490 different mobs, is the plan really to look at each one
and guess what they should really be ?
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:59 pm

No, Thrand. The idea is to adjust the races and code to get things mostly correct, and then fix individual mobs on an exception basis. When people post mobs that are not showing the ideal size, I can then find the patterns and adjust things through the code and new racial definitions.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:11 am

Bug?: Size changes like reduce no longer affect encumbrance
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:30 pm

Suggestion: show mob proc information or other interesting tidbits like that when IDentifyig them
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:27 pm

Suggestion: in addition to mob size maybe have some kind of "density" modifier that makes mobs unbashable if its applied as a template. demons could stay medium sized but really dense and so immune to bash
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:16 am

Suggestion: be able to use identify scroll on corpses to see if animateable and hp/xp values or whatever
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Shevarash » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:52 am

More fixes:

  • Dragons, Undead, Demons, Devils, and Golems are now no-stun again.
  • Earth elementals have hands again.
  • Ogres are now size Large. This applies to players and NPCs.
  • Demons and Devils are now Massive. This may change, but is intended to
    preserve the existing balance for now.
  • Infravision will now show the actual size of the mob.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:29 pm

The consider command on Duris works like this:

You would need a lot of luck and great equipment!
A hill giant is huge.

Honestly, it's not too much to ask for players to remember what size they are. Many of your PC races are going to be medium... humans, drow, orcs, elves, half-elves, yuan-ti, etc. Some will be large, probably trolls, ogres, and barbarians. Gnomes and halflings will be small (dwarves are a weird case). Enlarge or reduce shouldn't stack, so if you're a barbarian warrior, you're either huge, large, or medium, depending on whether you're enlarged/normal/reduced. No matter what size you are, you can bash +/- one size category.

Size categories allow some interesting variations on the bash mechanic. I don't know what you're planning to do with bash when Toril 2.0 comes out in full form... bash isn't a D&D mechanic, but it's so ingrained into Diku that it's almost hard to envision the game without it.
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Kindi » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:46 am

bug: righteous might, which makes ppl "grow to double their size", has no effect on size
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Re: Game Update Notes: 11/8/2009 [Racial Code Expanded]

Postby Malia » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:58 pm

the 2 spiders in CM the phase and sword spiders are both suposed to be giant spiders i think at least small size would be in order

lvl 49 phase spider (illu class) that is fine no bash no trip

This disgusting spider has a human-like head. The spider appears to phase in and out of existence.
A phase spider is in excellent condition. (Fine)
It is surrounded by a cluster of mirror images.
Its form is displaced, and difficult to track!

The sword spider is a giant hunting spider. It has a black, hairy body with brown stripes. On its legs are sword-sharp, bony plates, which it uses to impale its prey with.
A sword spider is in excellent condition. (Fine)

Thanks for checking into this!

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