TSA groping

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Re: TSA groping

Postby Pril » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:50 pm

Sarvis wrote:
Pril wrote:
Sarvis wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Whatever floats your boat. Of course, you replied to another post of mine which was written after, and happened to contain, the other reply... so there's that.

Sometimes, I stop scrolling up, and I have no fixed direction for reading. Do you really still have a problem with this?

Sarvis wrote:Oh, what the hell. You were saying they target airplanes instead of other American targets because only "rich people" use airplanes. So do you believe American poor people, who are rich by most foreign standards, not use planes? Or do American poor people still count as rich to terrorists, in which case an airplane is no more a valid target than Times Square would be?

It's ironic that you say that AND Times Square was recently a target of attempted terrorism. I'm simply going to let what I've already said stand, it makes sense and there's ample evidence, especially considering that the average plane ticket costs more than what two median households in Vietnam make in a year. And we're not even talking about Africa yet!

Sarvis wrote:Cause I gotta tell you, when I was a kid and needed food stamps to stay fed... I still occasionally got on an airplane.

If you think you were poor, it's because you don't know what poor actually is.



So please explain why Terrorists target, and will continue to target, planes when there are so many other valid targets? Only rich people use crowded malls at Christmas, right?

In fact, only rich people use anything at all on American soil... and most of these other things have piss poor security compared to an airplane even BEFORE the draconian TSA measures.

And yes, I'll talk about being poor. Because if you can't afford/obtain food, you're poor no matter what country you're living in or what non-food objects you're surrounded by.


Are you poor if you can't afford/obtain food, yet are able to afford/obtain a carton of cigarettes a day?


Yes, because every poor person in America smokes a carton a day. :roll:


I didn't say they did. I just asked if a person who buys a carton of smokes a day and can't afford to eat is considered poor.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:54 pm

The UN poverty line is set at roughly a dollar a day. By this standard, the only people in the United States that could be considered under the UN poverty line do so because they choose to.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Sarvis » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:22 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Let me try to explain this to you. There is no need for terrorists to consider bad or low value targets like shopping malls, because the damage they can do is extremely limited and they are likely to be stopped quickly.

Out of all the high-value terrorist targets: infrastructure, roadways, rails, etc., planes are an exceptionally good target because they're filled with rich people. That is why terrorists target them.


So malls, roads, apartment buildings, condos and skyscrapers AREN'T filled with rich people?

And again, I repeat: If the rich never flew, terrorists would have few reasons to target airplanes.


They have no more reason to target airplanes than anything else. In fact, they DIDN'T target airplanes for 9/11. They just stole the airplanes as a tool to attack the REAL targets... which happened to be skyscrapers filled with ACTUAL rich people.


You know this to be true, so stop with the pissing contest. The real issue here is that you still haven't accepted the fact that Americans are rich


No, the issue here is that you consider "rich people being present" as the defining factor in an airplane attack. I've accepted your premise that Americans are rich... but that only WEAKENS your point that planes are being attacked "because rich people fly."

You can do anything, anywhere in America and hit rich people by your definition. So why airplanes? Because being patted down before going on board makes them easier to attack somehow? Because the 100 people on a plane are more targets than the thousand in a skyscraper? Because a cruise ship would be too hard to sink?

, even the ones that consider themselves poor. Because the rich are the ones that are flying, it means the air is filled with a disproportionate number of Americans.


America is filled with a disproportionate number of Americans. Oh, if you're thinking about plane attacks worldwide (without having mentioned it at all before, of course) then why not hotels in tourist areas? All it takes to bring a hotel down is a few well placed charges, just ask any demolitions expert. No one's making you do a nude body scan on the way in, either.

So please Teflor, address the real point here: Why airplanes rather than the plethora of other targets that are both filled with rich people AND easier to attack?
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Corth » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:24 pm

Couple of points..

At least with respect to the 9/11 terrorist attack, the planes weren't the target. They were basically just missles. The WTC, White House, and Pentagon were the targets.

Also, there is a very good reason for terrorists to target shopping malls, public transporation, etc. What Teflor would deem low level targets. Terrorist attacks are more symbolic than anything else. They don't have the power to kill us all. But they can try and make us scared to go to work, get on a train, go shopping, etc. If we were to start getting shopping mall attacks every few months - Lone gunmen who just shot the place up as long as they could... even if the total amount of casualties from a macro perspective weren't substantial, the end result could be a significant blow to our economy as people stayed home from the shopping malls. If anything, the 'soft targets' are more inviting to a terrorist because you can't guard them all, and those are really the kind of attacks that inspire terror among the people.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:21 pm

what Corth said
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:28 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca ... 85138.html

Let's compare and contrast. Your odds of dying from cancer are about one in seven. Your odds of dying in an airborne terrorist attack, according to the very liberal Wall Street Journal, are one in 25 million (your odds of being hit by lightning are one in 500,000). Yet throughout the Bush years, the federal government spent twice as much on anti-terrorism measures as it spent on disease prevention. Hell, you're more likely to kill someone else, be convicted in a court of law, sentenced to death and legally executed than you are of dying in a terrorist attack (odds of death by legal execution: one in 58,618).


I think this is a fair criticism of Republicans for bringing us DHS and TSA. more intersting is the the statistics on death in America. You are more likely to kill someone and be executed than to die from a terrorist attack. We spend inordinate amounts of money (public and private charity) on things that are just not likely to happen statistically speaking.

and since I can't ever post without taking a dig at Obama. What happened to letting Science rule the day? The science says TSA is ineffective and not necessary, this article claims it can't find the underwear bomber, but yet you let big sis buy it and mandate it anyway. What happened to common sense and science?
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:15 pm

Sarvis wrote:So please Teflor, address the real point here: Why airplanes rather than the plethora of other targets that are both filled with rich people AND easier to attack?


Sorry, but there's no reason to address any of your self-generated arguments This is the real point:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:They target aircraft because only the rich use them.

Sarvis wrote:something completely delusional


1) We've already established that only the rich use aircraft, that much you've accepted through conversation. The richer you are, the more you use aircraft, the more you depend on the air transpiration system, and the more connected you are to the airline industry. In fact, if you are exceptionally rich, you probably own your own aircraft, lease them, fly exclusive chartered jets, and have frequent flyers miles in the millions on commercial jets. The richer you are, the more you fly, statistically.
2) I've already explained that out of all of the good terrorist targets, aircraft are targeted, both as primary and secondary targets for use and as the direct victim in terrorist attacks for a reason that stands out other than being a generally good terrorism target.

The logical step you are missing is what makes aircraft stand out from other high-value terrorism targets.

What stands out is that those that use airline transport are indeed rich, factually, actually, conceptually, and from the perceptions of the well known foreign Islamist terrorist organizations.

There are any number of soft targets that can result in the same amount of casualties as an airplane: train tunnels, bridges, highway tunnels, etc. Terrorist mentalities common in the organizations that present the greatest threat to America (the richest people on the earth) tend to strike out at those with riches and power. Given the option between hitting two things with roughly equal casualties, these organizations will seek to hit whichever target harms or terrorizes richer, more powerful people. Let me give you a visual:

Code: Select all

Good Target #1
Good Target #2 + Richest People  <<< DING DING DING
Good Target #3 + Rich People <<< Ya maybe that too.
Good Target #4

There's no delusion in understanding that what the most threatening terrorist organizations take issue with America is the massive difference in wealth, that they take offense to our wealth and the power that comes with it. If you want to strike fear in the hearts of the wealthy, powerful, elite, you have to strike at, if not directly, indirectly, where they live. For the ultra-wealthy, a lot of that time is spent in the air.
Last edited by Teflor Lyorian on Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:35 pm

As Corth mentioned and I think Teflor too... there is an economic component to this...

Bin Laden was elated to have done 8 billion dollars of damage to the US economy (probably understated actually). Jihadist proclamations since and before importantly mention economics... they don't just target people, they specifically also target economics.

Read a little history, the barbary pirates. Basically, muslims requiring a tax on non muslim transportation. We paid them off once, then I forget who, but one of the founders basically said fuk this and we fought them. I'm probably over exaggerating, but practically its how it worked. Muslims are culturally very adverse to attacking other muslims. We saw hints of that in the last couple years with piracy off the coast of Somalia, muslim ships were treated preferentially (although apparently greed was still a factor).
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:03 pm

Sarvis wrote:Oh, if you're thinking about plane attacks worldwide (without having mentioned it at all before, of course) then why not hotels in tourist areas? All it takes to bring a hotel down is a few well placed charges, just ask any demolitions expert. No one's making you do a nude body scan on the way in, either.

Actually, despite hotels being less valuable targets in my opinion, they have been targeted time and time again for terrorist attacks around the world, particularly in tourist areas. Dude, read more. Rich downtown districts too, such as the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-bl ... hote-3392/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... illing-32/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Kabul ... tel_attack
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-17/worl ... s=PM:WORLD
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1032646n
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 24448.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8111468
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/20 ... %20Netanya
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 49,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... istan.html
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... -in-berlin
http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm
http://research.globalthoughtz.com/inde ... worldwide/

So do you still think my 'rich view' is still deluded?

Also, I need to correct your previous statement:
All it takes to bring a hotel down is a few dozen well placed heavily controlled and regulated shaped explosives charges, detailed architectural plans, decades of experience and knowledge, unfettered access to virtually all security and access controlled areas in the building, and that's just in the places where buildings aren't constructed to withstand tsunamis, hurricanes, and earthquakes, just ask any demolitions expert.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Sarvis » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:00 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Oh, if you're thinking about plane attacks worldwide (without having mentioned it at all before, of course) then why not hotels in tourist areas? All it takes to bring a hotel down is a few well placed charges, just ask any demolitions expert. No one's making you do a nude body scan on the way in, either.

Actually, despite hotels being less valuable targets in my opinion, they have been targeted time and time again for terrorist attacks around the world, particularly in tourist areas. Dude, read more. Rich downtown districts too, such as the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-bl ... hote-3392/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... illing-32/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Kabul ... tel_attack
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-17/worl ... s=PM:WORLD
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1032646n
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 24448.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8111468
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/20 ... %20Netanya
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 49,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... istan.html
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... -in-berlin
http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm
http://research.globalthoughtz.com/inde ... worldwide/

So do you still think my 'rich view' is still deluded?

Also, I need to correct your previous statement:
All it takes to bring a hotel down is a few dozen well placed heavily controlled and regulated shaped explosives charges, detailed architectural plans, decades of experience and knowledge, unfettered access to virtually all security and access controlled areas in the building, and that's just in the places where buildings aren't constructed to withstand tsunamis, hurricanes, and earthquakes, just ask any demolitions expert.



Again, my problem wasn't with your claim of us being rich but with your implication that it's why terrorists target planes.

Now you've established they attack hotels as well.

Again, why not skyscrapers? Why not the Empire State Building or something similar that houses businesses? Why not simply cause a panic in a mall on Black Friday? They could probably kill as many people by trampling as they could on a plane, and it would bring our holiday economy to a halt.

They don't target planes "because rich people use them." I'm not claiming to know why they do target planes, but there are a LOT of better targets if you just want to kill rich people.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Botef » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:15 pm

I don't agree with the idea that airlines are a prime target because 'rich' people use it either. I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance. There are very few elements of commerce in America that can be manipulated as easily as the aviation industry in this day and age. Where else can an entire industry be turned upside down over not just an attempted attack, but a 'potential' threat? You don't even need to be a terrorist, even a flight attendant having a bad day can disrupt things.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:42 pm

Botef wrote:I don't agree with the idea that airlines are a prime target because 'rich' people use it either. I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance. There are very few elements of commerce in America that can be manipulated as easily as the aviation industry in this day and age. Where else can an entire industry be turned upside down over not just an attempted attack, but a 'potential' threat? You don't even need to be a terrorist, even a flight attendant having a bad day can disrupt things.

yeah, just imagine how easy it would be to send people into enough panic that they start doing virtual strip searches, and groping 3 year old girls. oh wait, it already happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNY_PTULO4

(the acceptance of the adults in this video is seriously creepy)
Last edited by Kindi on Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:48 pm

kiryan wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/when-your-junk-is-touched_b_785138.html

Let's compare and contrast. Your odds of dying from cancer are about one in seven. Your odds of dying in an airborne terrorist attack, according to the very liberal Wall Street Journal, are one in 25 million (your odds of being hit by lightning are one in 500,000). Yet throughout the Bush years, the federal government spent twice as much on anti-terrorism measures as it spent on disease prevention. Hell, you're more likely to kill someone else, be convicted in a court of law, sentenced to death and legally executed than you are of dying in a terrorist attack (odds of death by legal execution: one in 58,618).


I think this is a fair criticism of Republicans for bringing us DHS and TSA. more intersting is the the statistics on death in America. You are more likely to kill someone and be executed than to die from a terrorist attack. We spend inordinate amounts of money (public and private charity) on things that are just not likely to happen statistically speaking.

good point. the odds of dying from backscatter x-ray radiation (1 in 30 million) are pretty much the same as dying from terrorism. lol

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/11/18/chances
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:22 am

most people aren't objecting to the health risk of the radiation. They are objecting to the invasion of their privacy whether by radiation or by my hand between your wife's thighs. Remember, the supreme court found that there is a right to privacy, its the underpinning of roe vs wade.

I found the story of the rape victim getting a pat down to be very vivid and compelling. Its surprsing that you're willing to tell the rape victim and the concerned husbands and parents, too bad so sad deal with it or don't fly. Imagine if we stopped providing bus service to ghettos because of safety? or if we required pat downs before boarding a bus in ghettos (high crime) and no pat downs in suburban neighborhoods (statistically low crime)? Its all in the interests of safety right?

Its incredibly fuckign stupid that you can be groped or forced to submit to a virtual strip search and thats justifiable, but a police officer can't ask a black man for his id after responding to a call about a potential break in without it being a national racist tragedy. You head is screwed on backwards if you're offended by one and not the other.
Last edited by kiryan on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:24 am

kiryan wrote:most people aren't objecting to the health risk of the radiation. They are objecting to the invasion of their privacy whether by radiation or by my hand between your wife's thighs. Remember, the supreme court found that there is a right to privacy, its the underpinning of roe vs wade.

I found the story of the rape victim getting a pat down to be very vivid and compelling. Its surprsing that you're willing to tell the rape victim and the concerned husbands and parents, too bad so sad deal with it or don't fly. On the other hand, asking a black man on his porch for ID is some sort of national racist tragedy. Or some kid saying "thats gay" is something to be suspended from school over.

wait... what? who are you talking to? i'm the one who's been against this from the beginning
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:26 am

i don't know!
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:26 am

Sarvis wrote:Again, my problem wasn't with your claim of us being rich but with your implication that it's why terrorists target planes.

Now you've established they attack hotels as well.

Again, why not skyscrapers? Why not the Empire State Building or something similar that houses businesses? Why not simply cause a panic in a mall on Black Friday? They could probably kill as many people by trampling as they could on a plane, and it would bring our holiday economy to a halt.
They don't target planes "because rich people use them." I'm not claiming to know why they do target planes, but there are a LOT of better targets if you just want to kill rich people.

I understand what happened here. Firstly, you didn't comprehend what I had written and have added false meaning to what I said. I have explained the rationale behind what I said, and Kiryan and Corth seem to have understood what I meant.

I'm concluding this argument due to what you read from what I wrote and attribute the disagreement to a matter of style and expression. You're arguing with yourself on this one Sarvis, should you chose to continue.

I think, perhaps, if I re-wrote it as thus, you would take away a clearer meaning:

All other value calculations considered, two targets, primary or secondary, being of equal value in terms of violence and fear, terrorist opt to target airplanes due to the average user being far richer than people that don't use planes. The reasons for this are many, mostly that terrorist that target the United States of America do so mostly because of the extreme wealth and power that set our nation apart from others. Those terrorists seek to damage those with wealth and power, and will likely strike at what they perceive to be related to them the most. Between striking highway infrastructure, rail, and air travel - the most likely target is air travel due to that affecting or being closer to the richest and most powerful than the others. The fact of the matter is that the rich are far more concerned when an airliner is struck by terrorists, than a gas power plant, or a luxury hotel - and that is apparent by the security response it has elicited.

So yes, if I were a anti-America terrorist, I would most likely hate the rich and powerful and therefore favor terror attacks involving air travel, because it's a higher value target than the ones you've suggested (hotel attacks average only a few dozen casualties, your shopping mall scenario is a joke) and I most closely (and correctly) associate air travel with the rich and powerful.

They target planes because the rich use them. Nothing delusional about that statement. If you think so, you need to think about it some more.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:26 am

Botef wrote:I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance.

Three guys, a cargo van, and a couple of jackhammers could smash up metropolitan commutes for DAYS by driving around and randomly tearing up beltways and major intersections. Some cheap explosions or some solvents would make the job even faster.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:45 am

Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Botef wrote:I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance.

Three guys, a cargo van, and a couple of jackhammers could smash up metropolitan commutes for DAYS by driving around and randomly tearing up beltways and major intersections. Some cheap explosions or some solvents would make the job even faster.

just goes to show, terrorists don't really exist
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Sarvis » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:44 am

Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Botef wrote:I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance.

Three guys, a cargo van, and a couple of jackhammers could smash up metropolitan commutes for DAYS by driving around and randomly tearing up beltways and major intersections. Some cheap explosions or some solvents would make the job even faster.


Why do they need more than a shovel?
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Sarvis » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:54 am

Teflor Lyorian wrote:I understand what happened here. Firstly, you didn't comprehend what I had written


Funny how that always happens. Almost as if you leave things purposefully ambiguous so that when you get cornered you can tell whoever you're arguing against that they misunderstood you.

So yes, if I were a anti-America terrorist, I would most likely hate the rich and powerful and therefore favor terror attacks involving air travel, because it's a higher value target than the ones you've suggested (hotel attacks average only a few dozen casualties, your shopping mall scenario is a joke) and I most closely (and correctly) associate air travel with the rich and powerful.

They target planes because the rich use them. Nothing delusional about that statement. If you think so, you need to think about it some more.



Except that, again, there are plenty of targets that would hurt MORE rich people or hurt our economy more. That's why the WTC was targeted instead of just crashing the airliners themselves.

And no, the mall example is NOT laughable. People have been trampled just by crowds trying to get into WalMart for a sale (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/200 ... tml?page=1 ) You really don't think more would be killed if the same number of people were panicking because someone opened fire with a gun? Hell, throw in a few IEDs at the entrances and you could have a field day.

Besides, the truly rich fly private jets. But sure, American middle and lower class people are rich... not the Middle Eastern princes and sheiks with their palaces and gulfstream jets and such.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:39 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/11/ ... ouch-kids/

When asked recently if a woman wearing traditional Muslim hijabs would be patted down in the same intrusive way as everyone else opting out of the naked body screeners, she gave a vague answer about possibly “adjusting” some of the procedures. Are you kidding? If the TSA screeners are going to pat down a Catholic nun in her full habit, why not do the same to Muslim women in hijabs? Are we so politically correct that we are downright stupid?

--wow if this is true, this is COMPLETE F*king BULLSHIT
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:44 pm

so a nun in her habit, a muslim in her hijab, and a scotsman in his kilt walk into the airport screening area.... tell me if you've heard this one before
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:30 pm

Sarvis wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Botef wrote:I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance.

Three guys, a cargo van, and a couple of jackhammers could smash up metropolitan commutes for DAYS by driving around and randomly tearing up beltways and major intersections. Some cheap explosions or some solvents would make the job even faster.


Why do they need more than a shovel?

Convenience.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:31 pm

Kindi wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Botef wrote:I think the real reason is that its one of the few functions of commerce that can be easily manipulated with very little effort. The people who fly are of little significance.

Three guys, a cargo van, and a couple of jackhammers could smash up metropolitan commutes for DAYS by driving around and randomly tearing up beltways and major intersections. Some cheap explosions or some solvents would make the job even faster.

just goes to show, terrorists don't really exist

They do, they just don't like to work or think the way I do.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:31 pm

huge roundup of stories posted by Bruce Schneier:

"This video provides tips to parents flying with young children. Around 2:50 in, the reporter indicates that you can find out if your child has been pre-selected for secondary, and then recommends requesting "de-selection." That doesn't make sense.

Neither does this story, which says that the TSA will only touch Muslim women in the head and neck area.

Nor this story. The author convinces people on line to opt-out with him. After the first four opt-outs, the TSA just sent people through the metal detectors.

Book for kids: My First Cavity Search. Cover seen at at TSA checkpoint.

According to the Cornell study, roughly 130 inconvenienced travelers died every three months as a result of additional traffic fatalities brought on by substituting ground transit for air transit. That's the equivalent of four fully-loaded Boeing 737s crashing each year." and lots more

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 ... html?nc=96
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:25 am

apparently TSA goons aren't allowed to wear radiation dosimeter badges which are standard for ppl working around radiation equipment.

and also apparently one defense against search is constitutional rights. (imagine that)

http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:43 pm

Kindi wrote:apparently TSA goons aren't allowed to wear radiation dosimeter badges which are standard for ppl working around radiation equipment.

and also apparently one defense against search is constitutional rights. (imagine that)

http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter

Interesting, I will have to try this on my way back to the states next month. Will let you all know how it goes.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:27 am

they defused "national opt-out day" (weds) by putting more screeners into service than at any previous time in history, and by turning off the new scanners and pushing everyone thru the old form of security without even thoroughly checking them.

just goes to show, between security and ability to get on a plane, which one even the TSA feels is more important
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:07 am

I was wondering if they were going to do something like that to make sure there was nothing news worthy to report.

now that is seriously straight out of China's textbook.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Zabam » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:55 pm

as for radiation dosimeters....
The standard for requiring badging is the probability of receiving 10% of the annual occupational exposure limit of 5 rem, not just working around radiation producing devices or radioactive material. From my experience with similar devices, I'd bet the TSA Goons don't even come close to 0.1 rem/year...providing they operate the fluoros correctly?!
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:55 pm

The millimeter wave scanners put out radiation similar to WiFi hotspots. I kind of prefer those to x-ray, since I practically bathe in them all the time anyway.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kifle » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:57 am

I really don't care. I just wish that the different airports would all play the same game. Some have body scanners, others just have metal detectors. Some will let you fly with huge tubes of tooth paste, others wont. In the last year, I have been to Vegas three times and Orlando once. In those 8 flights, I brought my home tube of tooth paste along -- only on the returning Orlando flight just last week did somebody actually take it away. Even if these measures were objectively making these flights safer, the TSA is so random in following their own codes that it wouldn't matter anyway. I've been told many times I'm not allowed to have a lighter on board; however, all 8 flights have been taken with a lighter in my chest pocket -- which goes through screening every time. My License looks nothing like me, and I've never been questioned once.

As for the groping, I actually had a bet to get one of the guys to fondle my balls; so, I went through the scanner with my thumb drive next to my junk. The poor old man looked just as ashamed as everyone else I've seen get "groped". I don't think these guys like to do it any more than the people getting it done to them -- unless they are homosexual perverts (not insinuating that homos are perverts...). I'm sure the person who had to "grope" the poor old lady got absolutely no enjoyment out of it and was probably disgusted the whole time.

So, as a game, I'm going to make sure every TSA employee has to fondle my balls as I go through screening. I will probably make sounds as well, just to make them even more uncomfortable. If I'm going to be molested, I may as well get some type of enjoyment out of it, eh? The Kiwis are going to love me in a month. New Zealand, here I come!
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:43 pm

now they want to add the scanners to the washington monument. bruce schneier thinks we should just close it instead

"...Let it stand, empty and inaccessible, as a monument to our fears.

An empty Washington Monument would serve as a constant reminder to those on Capitol Hill that they are afraid of the terrorists and what they could do. They're afraid that by speaking honestly about the impossibility of attaining absolute security or the inevitability of terrorism -- or that some American ideals are worth maintaining even in the face of adversity -- they will be branded as "soft on terror." And they're afraid that Americans would vote them out of office if another attack occurred. Perhaps they're right, but what has happened to leaders who aren't afraid? What has happened to "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"?

An empty Washington Monument would symbolize our lawmakers' inability to take that kind of stand -- and their inability to truly lead."

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 ... washi.html
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:06 am

funny scary
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:13 pm

Backscatter was installed, but managed to avoid it and being groped... guess they just don't care.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:45 pm

whats funny to me is these people going to the airport half naked to protest. You're protesting a virtual strip search by parading around in front of people half naked. well I guess you get an A for effort.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Pril » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:50 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Backscatter was installed, but managed to avoid it and being groped... guess they just don't care.


Probably too big for backscatter and too ugly for a free grope.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:54 pm

lol zing!

tef, at least your not scrawny and white guy who's mud moniker is a play on a female or homo sex toy.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Kindi » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:39 am

fat middle age blogger goes commando w/ a kilt and gets enhanced pat down (very long):

http://subliminalpanda.blogspot.com/201 ... -2010.html

straight to the point:

"The enhanced patdown is very much like a consensual rape. The screener asks before touching each body part with the back of his hand. “I’m going to put my hand between your beltline and belly, is that okay?” Obviously, the only correct answer here was yes. I could have said no, but that meant that I’d be hitch hiking to Chicago…if I wasn’t arrested and charged with a fine. So Officer Gill starts with my backside, then chest and belly. After that, I stretched my arms out, and we finished the upper body. He then took a courageous breath and steeled his reserve, asking me to step forward with my left foot. This was it…

With blue latex gloves on, the backside of Gill’s hand caressed my ankles and calf. The hand moved up my knee and vanished along my inner thigh, under the kilt...

Buddafingahs!"
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Re: TSA groping

Postby kiryan » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:47 pm

Was that a homoerotic fantasy or the government's idea of necessary security?

On a side note, I think I'm going to get a kilt and go regimental. seriously. I was always jealous chicks were the only ones that could wear skirts! Just think, no tight pants binding up your legs etc.
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Sarvis » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:13 pm

kiryan wrote: I was always jealous chicks were the only ones that could wear skirts! Just think, no tight pants binding up your legs etc.


And the truth comes out... ;)
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Re: TSA groping

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:21 pm

Pril wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:Backscatter was installed, but managed to avoid it and being groped... guess they just don't care.


Probably too big for backscatter and too ugly for a free grope.

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