TorilMUD Forums

Bush claimed SH was trying to obtain WMDs. He claimed Iraq had tried to acquire yellow cake. If the cable is accurate, he acquired at some point large quantities of yellow cake. That supports Bush's position period.

snopes has a good article on this (third link in google for 'iraq yellowcake'):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp

"The yellowcake removed from Iraq in 2008 was material that had long since been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under the supervision of U.N. inspectors. It was NOT a "secret" cache that was recently "discovered" by the U.S, and the yellowcake had NOT been purchased by Iraq in the years immediately preceding the 2003 invasion. The uranium was the remnants of decades-old nuclear reactor projects that had put out of commission many years earlier: One reactor at Al Tuwaitha was bombed by Israel in 1981, and another was bombed and disabled during Operation Desert Storm in 1991. Moreover, the fact that the yellowcake and been in Iraq since before the 1991 Golf War was plainly stated in the Associated Press article cited in the example above."

Whether it was there earlier or later is irrelevant. The facts were that such materials were retained for purposes that weren't not obtaining WMD.

The Saddam regime was one that was NOT shy or inexperienced with utilizing WMD, even on its own people. It really is important to note that this was a regime that both had and used WMD in the past.

Simple but Important Facts:
* Saddam regime had previously acquired, manufactured, and obtained WMD.
* Saddam regime had previously used WMD on targets domestic and foreign.
* Saddam regime had ballistic missiles capable of reaching American allies on their land.

Pertinent interview with Condi about this. Well responded by her in my opinion.

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Yeah... and four pounds of flour and two pounds of butter doesn't mean there's an intention for baked goods...

Yellowcake = WMD waiting to happen, FYI.

Please tell me how to make a possible WMD out of yellowcake. You will impress me greatly if you get it right. You can get as technical or as simple as you wish.

FYI: I have 27 yrs of applied radiological health physics XP and was part of the US Army team initiating Nunn-Lugar WMD/NBC Homeland Defense in 1996. So bullshit me not.

A profound technical understanding of how uranium is refined from yellowcake is neither required for the argument, nor is it relevant to the discussion.

FYI: The fact that an accumulation of yellowcake outside of the nations that produce and distribute it indicates the pursuit of nuclear technologies utilizing uranium, cannot be disputed.

The yellowcake in question here was documented and under the supervision of UN inspectors until they were booted out after Bush's ultimatum to Saddam.

The same inspectors that insisted they weren't given sufficient access and were kicked out on other occasions before.

And yet, still irrelevant to the fact that the nation was retaining the building blocks for nuclear technologies after viciously invading a neighbor and gassing a bunch of Kurds.

I still want to know why we put the guy in power in the first place...

Sarvis wrote:I still want to know why we put the guy in power in the first place...

The simple answer is that the alternatives were worse.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/17/mi ... wikileaks/

links to http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html

According to them, there is NO reason for the guy responsible for the largest leak of classified documents ever to be held as a high value detainee. High value detainees are held in solitary confinement for a few reasons principally because we don't want anyone killing them. I'm sure there are more than enough members of the military, even the ones in jail, who would think it was a patriotic action to kill this guy.

Torture, really, you liberals need to figure out what torture is. This is called incarceration, not torture. The conditions are far from inhumane. Sleeping in your own filth, eating moldby bread and water, having your fingers broken one by one is inhumane. Being forced to come to grips with your own inadequacy and stupidity through solitary confinement is not torture, its the resut of your decisions. Only getting to watch 1 hour of TV a day is not torture, its a privilege. Not being allowed to exercise in their cells is not torture, its safety.

kiryan wrote:Only getting to watch 1 hour of TV a day is not torture,

Depends on what they make you watch. Jersey Shore?

Solitary confinement is pretty rough, but I imagine an hour a day is enough to sustain a human being. In fact, people do seem to get by this way.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... y-now.html

More about the allegations. Still confirms that he's a giant douche.

if the allegations about him purposefully tearing the condom are true, then perhaps he is guilty of something.

this part was especially hillarious. "seems to have a fetish for unprotected sex". Course this reflects Euro attitudes vs Americans, but what guy wouldn't rather have unprotected sex than protected sex (assuming pregnancy and disease is a non issue).

Couple of things I wanted to bring up related to the Wikileaks bullshit...

First, thanks to Adrian Lamo, the homeless hacker, that dealt the first strike at the enemy that attacked our nation by making our secrets public. Granted, Lamo offered Manning protection, but did the right thing to report him after Manning refused.

Second, we have to be certain that there are credible, safe, and respectable ways of reporting wrongdoings in classified materials. People should have options when it comes to reacting to classified information. (Yes, this would not have prevented the Wikileaks bullshit, as it was some asshat that just downloaded whatever he could get his hands on and release it in order to hurt the United States, but it's a good idea in general).

Finally, our enemy wanting to know something is reason enough to keep it secret. It's embarrassing that we ever allowed ourselves to be disarmed like this.

The original article Kiryan posted was about a ddos attack. There is a lot of people who could have carried that out. Just as counter ddos attacks later happened the other way.

Fox news have a brilliant walkthrough about the sex scandal.
http://www.newser.com/story/107094/glen ... -life.html

lol nice.

the point of this thread is the bullshit going on with wiki leaks... on both sides. we've got assange being a douche bag, we've got the US government pressuring private corporations to shut it down, we've got hackers on both sides blasting 3rd parties. We've got hipocrisy to the nth degree in the state department on Internet censorship... and we have liberals bitching about the quite humane treatment of what is undeniably one of the biggest traitors (working against the quanitiable interests of the country) ever (punishable by death). Assuming he is the guilty party.

This whole situation is a clusterfuk all the way around. We're falling all over ourselves and our principles.

Exaggerating a bit much? The state failed to protect its secrets. So-called fake liberals always bitch about our government. Manning is a traitor and should probably hang according to the law. The press is allowed to discuss and leak classified materials, but if they threaten the lives of Americans or their allies - those Americans and their allies should be allowed to defend themselves with lethal force - the same as they would be allowed to defend themselves if someone threatened them with a weapon.

There. Seems pretty simple to me.