Montana is insane

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kiryan
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Montana is insane

Postby kiryan » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:41 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110224/ap_ ... J0eXZpc2k-

Why is it insane and crazy when the tea party extremists pass laws that give back your freedom in response to a federal government that over the past 2 years did whatever the fuk they wanted to in the name of we "won" the election?
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Kifle » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:37 am

kiryan wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110224/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_world;_ylt=AosZtVEKMhs5Z9RpMoBh9zus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNtcmZ1YnRsBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMjI0L3VzX3RlYV9wYXJ0eV93b3JsZARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzEEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl9oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawN0ZWFwYXJ0eXZpc2k-

Why is it insane and crazy when the tea party extremists pass laws that give back your freedom in response to a federal government that over the past 2 years did whatever the fuk they wanted to in the name of we "won" the election?


For the same reason tea party extremists cheer when laws are passed that strip your freedom (patriot act among others) in response to a federal government that over the 8 years prior to this administration did whatever the fuck they wanted to in the name of "omg bin laden terrorist 9/11 FREEDOM (oh and oil but lets say freedom instead)".
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Corth » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:10 am

Kifle,

The tea party and the neocons are two very different animals. I think most of the tea partiers are actually very much against the Patriot Act much like Ron and Rand Paul are. They are basically Republican Libertarians. You generally see them concentrating on cutting government and government spending. They aren't saying much about traditional Republican social issues either (which distinguishes them from the 'moral majority' branch of Republicanism).

Of course this is a gross generalization. There are many people who identify themselves as tea partiers who have strong feelings on stuff like abortion, global warming etc. Just as there are many neocons who tend to lean libertarian on spending issues. But when you look at these groups in a broad sense, the basic focus of the tea partiers is taxing and spending issues - not social issues or security issues.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Kifle » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:17 am

Corth wrote:Kifle,

The tea party and the neocons are two very different animals. I think most of the tea partiers are actually very much against the Patriot Act much like Ron and Rand Paul are. They are basically Republican Libertarians. You generally see them concentrating on cutting government and government spending. They aren't saying much about traditional Republican social issues either (which distinguishes them from the 'moral majority' branch of Republicanism).

Of course this is a gross generalization. There are many people who identify themselves as tea partiers who have strong feelings on stuff like abortion, global warming etc. Just as there are many neocons who tend to lean libertarian on spending issues. But when you look at these groups in a broad sense, the basic focus of the tea partiers is taxing and spending issues - not social issues or security issues.


That's definitely not the case here. But I will retract my statement and exchange the proper label :)
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Corth » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:25 am

Just a correction... I don't think most of the tea partiers are against the patriot act. I meant many are against it. The majority are probably for it. But the point I'm making is that when you think tea party the focus isn't on social issues or security issues like the other groups I mentioned focus on. It's getting to the point where 'tea party' is basically interchangeable with 'republican' on this forum, but that is so not the case. If anything there is a pretty decent sized rift between the oldschool republicans and the new blood tea partiers.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Kifle » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:35 am

Corth wrote:Just a correction... I don't think most of the tea partiers are against the patriot act. I meant many are against it. The majority are probably for it. But the point I'm making is that when you think tea party the focus isn't on social issues or security issues like the other groups I mentioned focus on. It's getting to the point where 'tea party' is basically interchangeable with 'republican' on this forum, but that is so not the case. If anything there is a pretty decent sized rift between the oldschool republicans and the new blood tea partiers.



Granted, but what I have seen is that while the tea party speakers do not generally add social issues (such as abortion, gay marriage, etc) into their platform, they are, again, generally against them -- in line with the status quo republicans. Many of the tea party supporters here hopped on the bandwagon because it was an anti-Obama platform with a loud voice. I see a diversion of talking points, but I don't see one on overall stance on social issues.
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Corth » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:18 am

Well, you see it in some of the more prominent tea party politicians. The Pauls being a great example. My recollection is that Ron Paul voted against the Patriot Act and against authorization for the Iraqi war. Look - any group of people will have divergent opinions. The tea party phenomenon is certainly Republican based, and tends to mirror typical Republican positions - but the main point, what differentiates it from the other prominent Republican groups, is that they tend to be more libertarian on both economic and social issues.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Kifle » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:21 am

Corth wrote:Well, you see it in some of the more prominent tea party politicians. The Pauls being a great example. My recollection is that Ron Paul voted against the Patriot Act and against authorization for the Iraqi war. Look - any group of people will have divergent opinions. The tea party phenomenon is certainly Republican based, and tends to mirror typical Republican positions - but the main point, what differentiates it from the other prominent Republican groups, is that they tend to be more libertarian on both economic and social issues.


I don't disagree. I just wanted to clarify my original statement. If the tea party movement were the libertarian movement, I'd be part of it; unfortunately, it is a conglomerate of angry republicans that are looking for alternatives and libertarians who realize libertarians will never get elected.
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Corth » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:35 am

Taking out the 'angry' part I can basically agree with that. Tea partiers are indeed Republicans - but in general, what differentiates them from other cognizable Republican groups, is that they have a Libertarian streak. I'm really not so sure what is so bad and/or threatening about it. As far as I can tell, they are just being demonized. A few Sharron Angle quotes and cherry picked pictures of demonstration signs and all of a sudden they are angry racist revolutionaries. It's like coloring the entire Democratic party socialist because of what Sarvis says.
Last edited by Corth on Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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kiryan
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby kiryan » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:36 am

I go to tea party meetings and at least the montana one is basically the deficit and obamacare. No abortion, no medical marijuana no gun laws no gay marriage laws, nothing from a organizaitonal standpoint. Its about cutting spending, repealing obamacare and throwing out anyone who wants government to control our lives.

Now talk to the members and you find most have strong conservative positions on all the hot button issues.
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:59 am

It's ironic that the Tea party is the first actual grassroots political effort that wields any political power in the last four decades in the United States of America.
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Re: Montana is insane

Postby Ragorn » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:18 pm

Corth wrote:Taking out the 'angry' part I can basically agree with that. Tea partiers are indeed Republicans - but in general, what differentiates them from other cognizable Republican groups, is that they have a Libertarian streak. I'm really not so sure what is so bad and/or threatening about it. As far as I can tell, they are just being demonized. A few Sharron Angle quotes and cherry picked pictures of demonstration signs and all of a sudden they are angry racist revolutionaries. It's like coloring the entire Democratic party socialist because of what Sarvis says.

My first introduction to the Tea Party was their campaign against town hall meetings of Democratic candidates in 2008. Videos of angry old people shouting inane questions at candidates without giving them a chance to respond, etc.

I don't think of the Tea Party as libertarian, I think of them as pre-Reagan conservatives. Reagan was the first Republican President to really support the idea of expansive government, huge cuts for the wealthy, and supply-side economics. Prior to Reagan, the Republican movement really was the party of small government. Hell, it wasn't until about 1996-1997 that I was old enough to really see that the party that talked about small government wasn't really doing anything that lined up with their rhetoric.

Minus the angry supporters and their misspelled signs, I'd much rather have the Tea Party in control than the neo-Republican party. The Tea Party isn't afraid to come out and tell you that their "budget cuts" are going to cut jobs and reduce services. Their honesty is somewhat refreshing. It's unfortunate that so many of their individual politicians, and SO MANY of their grassroots supporters, come off as god damned insane.

If there were a Tea Party candidate in my district who got on TV and said "trying to regulate abortion is just going to waste money that we don't want to spend, so we're not going to pursue legislation on that front," I'd probably vote for him myself. The only thing stopping me is their allegiance to conservative social values, most of which I disagree with.
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