kiryan wrote:There is a difference between the inability to control a child and not even trying. We don't even try anymore, we simply hand out condoms while at the same time telling 11 year olds they are able to choose to do whatever they want. I'd be much more open to handing out condoms if we were at least telling kids don't have sex.
We are. The message is, always will be, and always has been: Don't have sex, but if you do then use protection.
Sarvis, I agree with the corporations being complicit in sexualizing our society. That being said, liberals tend to support and encourage society to become more permissive especially in sex and conservatives against it. So I consider liberals a big part of the problem.
Yes, the GOP has convinced you we're Satanic Communists. We get it.
== it doesn't work huh. Some studies would disagree. Also, its of no wonder that teaching abstinence doens't work when liberals are going around teaching that everyone has the right to have sex at any age. Its like going into a room full of candles and pouring gas all over the floor then claim that you have to give everyone fire extinguishers to prevent fires. Of course fire without fire extinguishers, you soaked the god damn room in gas.
Suddenly people don't have the right to control what they do with their own bodies? Oh sure, they're children so they should only do what you say... but again, the problem is that adolescents DON'T do what you say. Do you get it yet? They are going to do it anyway! Show me these studies of yours, and when I stop being too lazy to google it I'll show you the real world statistics showing reduced teen sex/pregnancy rates in areas with comprehensive sex ed.
You keep expecting teens to avoid doing something just because you said so. What happens is they do it behind your back.
== christianity doens't demonize sex. No where does god say sex is evil. It says there are rules that should govern your sexual activity. Even you agree that there should be rules on sex, you shouldn't rape people, you shouldn't have sex with children. Now we may disagree what the exact rules for sexual behavior are, but we both agree there are rules. How is it demonizing when christianity puts rules on sex but not our modern day society?
Bullshit. I've heard about Catholics that feel so guilty after having sex with their wives they cry. Sex is something necessary for procreation, and in several sects of Christianity it is the only reason you should ever have sex. The Bible and God may not have said sex is evil, but the Church thinks it is and has convinced the populace that it is.
Do your liberal friends think that married individuals should have sex with other people? Some do, but I highly doubt its a common belief. In essence most of the "rules" in the bible regarding sexual behavior are flat out good even if the justification, becaues god said so, are "bad". WHo thinks pregnant unwed girls is a good idea?
If only there were ways to prevent that... but no, you should object to ALL methods of prevention because God suggested one 2000 years ago before anything else existed. (Actually condoms probably did exist, but they probably sucked even more than they do now...)
WHo thinks people running around having sex with your wife/husband even gf/boyfriend, children is good?
Not sure the Bible cares about sex with Children. Those experts of yours, aka Catholic Priests and the Vatican, certainly never saw a problem with it.
Couldn't we basically cure HIV and most STDs in one generation if people would stop having sex with multiple people?
Yes, and we could also have limitless, clean and safe energy if we invented a perpetual motion device. Remember your beliefs Kiryan: People will sin. They will make mistakes. They will cheat, they will have premarital sex, they will fuck more than one person.
Sure it could never happen, but the principle of having sex with only one person, after you've made a long term committment to them would solve a lot of problems... but no, its stupid because God said so. Its brilliant, its just impossible due to human nature.
No, it is not stupid because God said so. It's stupid because it's unrealistic. You even just SAID it could never happen. You want to depend on something you believe will never happen. THAT is stupid. I don't care who said it. It's unrealistic and won't work. You're advocating a fantasy land solution to real world problems. You might as well try and find a Cleric to cast Cure Disease.
so are you saying pedophilia should be legal again since we have never been able to stop 11 year olds from having sex?
You don't know what pedophilia is do you? Oh wait, you didn't realize that 12-13 year old girls were married off to older men back then. Sorry, I should have been more clear.
The bible is a good rule book, idealistic, impossibly difficult to consistently meet the standard, but its a good rule book. Instead of dumbing down the rules, shouldn't we elevate ourselves to a higher standard?
The standards you think "will never happen?" No, we shouldn't because, as you said it "will never happen" and, as the Bible says, we are incapable of living perfect lives.
What we CAN do is use the tools at our disposal to lessen the Earthly consequences of our mistakes. Nowhere does the Bible say that we have to suffer on Earth for our mistakes, we are called to account in Heaven after all. And Frankly if the Bible's goal was just to reduce teen pregnancy we've got more effective methods of doing that 2000 years later. It's not like Jesus could have said "Makest sure thou takest thy birth-control pill" 2000 years ago. If we'd invented it maybe he would have.
==or possibly its simply because we have much better nutrition today than we ever had. organisms of all kinds tend to start their reproductive cycles faster when they have abundant energy.
Yes, possibly. Point is children are going through puberty earlier and getting married later.
again with the 11 year olds, so again should we change pedophilia laws since the reality is 11 year olds are ready to have sex under our current society? if an 80 year old can have sex with an 18 year old, I'm not sure why 20 and 11 isn't legal.
Here's the funny thing: The reason those laws exist is because an 11 year old isn't emotionally equipped or experienced enough to properly make that decision. They exist because the older person has experience and can easily manipulate the 11 year old acquiescing.
Now for the funny part: When you put two eleven year olds together, they ALSO aren't experienced and mature enough to make the decision... but they have hormones telling them to do it and will very likely make the wrong decision. Why? Because they aren't mature enough to know what they are doing.
So you can have them get into that situation without a condom, or with one handy. Which do you think ends better?
Oh, and how do you feel about a 16 year old boy and a 12 year old girl? Think he might be able to manipulate her into it? Think she should just live with the consequences?
== i agree with you that the rules need to be explained. why shouldn't those rules be A) you're not ready B) you're not ready C) the risk of pregnancy and having a child is something you are SERIOUSLY NOT READY FOR.
A) Sure baby, you're ready. It's the next step to adulthood. You want to be an adult right? (Ok, clearly I never got laid in high school... but some guys knew what to say, right?)
B) See A
C) Don't worry, if you jump up and down after sex you won't get pregnant!
Kiryan, again: Comprehensive sex ed works. It gives them everything they need to know about sex to make an INFORMED decision. Informed kids tend to avoid sex longer than uninformed kids.
I'm not advocating we teach in school don't have sex cuz god said so. I'm advocating that don't have sex should be the standard. Not have sex when you feel like you're ready for it, or have sex when you love the other person or everyone has sex at your age so dont feel bad for doing what everyone else does or you have the right to have sex and we'll give you free condoms so you can "consequenceless" sex.
Don't have sex is the primary message of Comprehensive Sex Ed. The rest comes from their peers, the media, and their hormones. I don't see why you insist on forcing life altering consequences on kids because they made one wrong decision.
You say you don't think sex is evil, but you DO think that if a teenager chooses to have sex her life should be ruined. Well the girl's life should be anyway, the boy can always just move away in college and move on with his life. Because yeah, that's MUCH better than if they had a condom.
11 year olds are not ready to have sex with or without condoms and safe sex education
But they'll do it anyway.