Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

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kiryan
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Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:49 pm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/educ ... 7867.story

To encourage healthful eating, Chicago school doesn't allow kids to bring lunches or certain snacks from home.

== thats not encouraging, thats regulating and mandating.

At his public school, Little Village Academy on Chicago's West Side, students are not allowed to pack lunches from home. Unless they have a medical excuse, they must eat the food served in the cafeteria.

== what happens if kids stop eating the lunches, we gonna force feed them? Its been cited in numerous studies how hunger affects learning, its one of the basises for the entire federal nutritional program.

Carmona said she created the policy six years ago after watching students bring "bottles of soda and flaming hot chips" on field trips for their lunch.

== so what, its none of your damn business what kids get from their parents to eat. Are you a social worker or a teacher/principal?

At Little Village, most students must take the meals served in the cafeteria or go hungry or both. During a recent visit to the school, dozens of students took the lunch but threw most of it in the garbage uneaten. Though CPS has improved the nutritional quality of its meals this year, it also has seen a drop-off in meal participation among students, many of whom say the food tastes bad.

== see earlier note about effect of hunger on learning. See note above on what to do if kids refuse to eat the lunches.

"This is such a fundamental infringement on parental responsibility," said J. Justin Wilson, a senior researcher at the Washington-based Center for Consumer Freedom, which is partially funded by the food industry.

== yep, if this was a soda company putting in reduced cost soda machines, the libs would be in the streets.

For many CPS parents, the idea of forbidding home-packed lunches would be unthinkable. If their children do not qualify for free or reduced-price meals, such a policy would require them to pay $2.25 a day for food they don't necessarily like.

== yea i really have no idea how to respond to this. its ridiculous.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Ragorn » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:59 pm

wtf chicago
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:45 pm

It's heavy handed, but it might not be a bad idea to ban students from bringing soda to school. It's anti-liberty and anti-human rights, but it tips my benefits to rights violation scale... sort of. And personally, I would have just snuck sodas into school anyway for the hell of it.

Ok, it's wrong.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Yayaril » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:46 pm

My school actually had a school store where you could buy sodas, pop tarts, and other candies. I can't remember how often my breakfast consisted of a 20 oz Mountain Dew and a bag of Twizzlers.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby kiryan » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:26 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... atsNewsTop

The office candy dish was sabotaging Melanie Meek's efforts to slim down. Then, she declared war.

Bowls filled with chocolates were swept off co-workers' desks and into drawers. Pastries, doughnuts and other snacks were stashed in a separate room. Her rule, she told co-workers in their Canton, Ohio, real-estate office: "If I have to smell it, I will move it."

== who gave her the right? Maybe she's the manager, but I doubt it.

There is research to show how irresistible the candy dish can be. A four-week study of 40 secretaries found that when candy was visible in a clear, covered dish, participants ate 2.5 pieces of chocolate on top of the 3.1 candies they would have eaten had the chocolates been in an opaque container, according to the 2006 study in the International Journal of Obesity. Moving the dish closer, so the subjects could reach the candy while seated at their desks, added another 2.1 candies a day to their intake.

"The proximity and visibility of a food can consistently increase an adult's consumption," says the study, led by Brian Wansink, a professor of marketing and human behavior at Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., and author of "Mindless Eating."

== so basically, because of this effect... which is to say because some people can't stop eating candy, people feel like they can regulate whether or not you have a candy bowl at your desk.

Maybe we should pass a law regulating having high calorie snack food at home too? All those defenseless kids tempted by the cookie jar before the school can get their hands on them and indoctrinate them against candy.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:36 pm

kiryan wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703841904576256982872752032.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

The office candy dish was sabotaging Melanie Meek's efforts to slim down. Then, she declared war.

Bowls filled with chocolates were swept off co-workers' desks and into drawers. Pastries, doughnuts and other snacks were stashed in a separate room. Her rule, she told co-workers in their Canton, Ohio, real-estate office: "If I have to smell it, I will move it."

== who gave her the right? Maybe she's the manager, but I doubt it.

There is research to show how irresistible the candy dish can be. A four-week study of 40 secretaries found that when candy was visible in a clear, covered dish, participants ate 2.5 pieces of chocolate on top of the 3.1 candies they would have eaten had the chocolates been in an opaque container, according to the 2006 study in the International Journal of Obesity. Moving the dish closer, so the subjects could reach the candy while seated at their desks, added another 2.1 candies a day to their intake.

"The proximity and visibility of a food can consistently increase an adult's consumption," says the study, led by Brian Wansink, a professor of marketing and human behavior at Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., and author of "Mindless Eating."

== so basically, because of this effect... which is to say because some people can't stop eating candy, people feel like they can regulate whether or not you have a candy bowl at your desk.

Maybe we should pass a law regulating having high calorie snack food at home too? All those defenseless kids tempted by the cookie jar before the school can get their hands on them and indoctrinate them against candy.

I used to bring fries into work to sit at my desk while I ate them one by one. They should definitely stop people like me ;)
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Kifle » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:50 pm

I think we should just teach self-control. You can't teach self-control if you regulate a child's every move. By doing things such as these, you are just making them less equipped to deal with freedom when they get older -- if we have any left when they get older. Screwing around with the developmental years by not allowing one to develop is insane.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:52 am

See, I'm really torn on this.

I'm all for the removal of soda and junk food machines from schools, but to dictate what the kids eat by regulating what they can or cannot bring from home is just going too far for me. Parents should have the final decision in what kids put in their stomachs. Unfortunately, lazy parents means kids get pre-packaged garbage, but it's still the parent's decision.

How do you encourage parents to send healthier alternatives instead, though? If a parent willfully packs the kid's lunch and sends fritos every stinkin' day, do you think you're going to change that behavior any time soon? Fritos are one of the greasiest chips on the market.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:05 am

==How do you encourage parents to send healthier alternatives instead, though? If a parent willfully packs the kid's lunch and sends fritos every stinkin' day, do you think you're going to change that behavior any time soon? Fritos are one of the greasiest chips on the market.

The question is WHY are you in the business of encouraging parents to do something. Why is it your business? How did government's authority to intervene in a private family relationship because of child safety become authority to intervene and influence due to what is not a safety issue, but a matter of societal preferences for the "best" outcome? The fact that you are only "torn" about this demonstrates how this stuff becomes acceptable over time through "education" or as I call it indoctirnation and erosion of liberty.

and whats really insane about this is how christians are the bad guys for "legislating morality"... many people on the left want to make every single choice a matter of regulation. from what car you drive to how much salt you consume at the local restauarant to what your kids eat at school...
Last edited by kiryan on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:09 am

Kiryan, liberty is one of the few things worth fighting for. Neglected children is another one.

However, collective punishment is remarkably unAmerican.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:15 am

Teflor... I can understand it better if you aren't feeding your kids... but this example is putting the government in the middle of a decision based on a "better" outcome not a basic / safety one. Are you ready for government encrouachment into every aspect of your life based on some determination of what is "better" for you?
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:38 pm

The only reason I'm torn on it is because I think obesity is a serious issue with our children, and I really don't think they need access to junkfood at school. But the addendum there is "unless their parents send it with them." The parents should have the final say in what the kids eat. They should have the option of choosing what their kids eat. It would be so much better if parents cared enough or knew enough to send healthy food with their kids, but as long as they're meeting the nutritional requirements for a growing child, they should be able to send anything they want to send.

We've been trying to teach kids good habits of nutrition for decades. They don't learn those habits at school, though, they learn them from their parents. I don't see anything wrong with trying to encourage parents to send healthy meals. I do see something wrong with dictating what a parent can or cannot send.

Setting these strongarm tactics aside, why do you have an issue with encouraging parents to send healthier alternatives?
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Kifle » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:53 pm

Ashiwi wrote:The only reason I'm torn on it is because I think obesity is a serious issue with our children, and I really don't think they need access to junkfood at school. But the addendum there is "unless their parents send it with them." The parents should have the final say in what the kids eat. They should have the option of choosing what their kids eat. It would be so much better if parents cared enough or knew enough to send healthy food with their kids, but as long as they're meeting the nutritional requirements for a growing child, they should be able to send anything they want to send.

We've been trying to teach kids good habits of nutrition for decades. They don't learn those habits at school, though, they learn them from their parents. I don't see anything wrong with trying to encourage parents to send healthy meals. I do see something wrong with dictating what a parent can or cannot send.

Setting these strongarm tactics aside, why do you have an issue with encouraging parents to send healthier alternatives?


Any encouragement from an institution so inefficient, greedy, and regularly idiotic as the US government is insulting. That is the issue I have with it. Behind every government action is a hidden motive to skew data -- be it health (eggs, they're bad, good, bad, good, whites are good, yolks are good, bad good, who the fuck knows, free range only!!), education (where do we sit in the world?), morality/ethics (what's our crime rate compared to other industrialized nations?), finance (no examples needed), or environmental (prius is the answer to global warming, if it exists... err, wait, the lifetime reduction in emissions/energy consumption is far outweighed by that to make one, hrm.). You begin to see my point. I don't allow my child to run the house because they have no clue what they are doing. The same reason I will never let my government tell me how to run my house... because they have no clue what they're doing. They can set up a building that offers suggestions, but the first time they do this at my school, my kids will be removed as quickly as possible. I'm so sick of relinquishing my freedoms to a government that can't do the simplest of tasks correctly.

Specifically with obesity, it is caused by so many things, who knows what causes it from child to child without a full diagnostics test run on each. More importantly, how many diets are there out there? I've tried several over the years and only few have worked. Which do we incorporate into schools? Atkins? South Beach? Removing soda from my diet netted me zero loss. Here's another funny thing. If a child chooses not to eat lunch that the school provides, and this is an option, the child's metabolism will start to degrade causing more fat storage -- moreso than the soda and cheetos they were eating to begin with. The government, even when they attempt to strong-arm us into some stupid attempt at health fucks it up. And if it continues, a child's metabolism will be set and may be difficult to reverse once out of the system. Most diets will follow a "snacking" approach to eating. How does the government's structured eating routine help this? Not at all. Cutting up lunch into two shorter "snack" periods would do more for a child's metabolism and overall health than forcing them to either eat or not eat carrots and fortified slop they got on the cheap from some byproducts vendor. Even further on this, the fortified "almost meat" shit they give you at school is just that... fortified slop. It is believed that fortified foods allow your body to absorb less vitamins than when they are found naturally. Secondary to this, your 100% vitamin C fortified almost juice they serve will be useless simply because the body can't absorb that much vitamin C at once. Additionally, you need other vitamins in conjunction to use and absorb the vitamins. So, should I let the government attempt to control my child's eating habits and consumption choices? Fuck no... they are idiots that flail at problems like stevie wonder trying to find the right hole to stick his dick in.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:19 pm

kifle said it pretty well.

I'll add this. If you think its governments responsibility to "influence" our decisions, then you're saying government knows whats best for you. Once you accept that government knows best, anyone who does anything different is negligent. What stops you from then forcing everyone to do whats best? Clearly nothing as evidenced by this particular Chicago school, anti tobacco initiatives and healthcare reform.

What if we found Christian values to be "best" for people, would you be ok forcing people to be Christian?
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:29 pm

I am for forcing parents to feed their children an at least defensibly reasonable diet.. where two donuts or a can of mountain dew and some ho-hos just don't cut it. Children should have access to at least basic nutrition, the carbohydrates, proteins, fats, and vitamins/minerals that are recommended.

More practically speaking, anything you could defend in a court of law as being reasonable to a jury of peers.

I have doubts about the government's capability to do this without corruptionizing 80% of the funds we allocate for it or coming up with stupid and useless regulations, legislations that don't actually further this goal, but you really have to wonder sometimes about how we COULD do these things.
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:33 pm

Obviously there are people in this forum who have never visited low-income schools. There are parents out there who will toss a piece of stale bread in a kid's lunchbox and call it done. There are parents who won't send lunch, won't bother filling out the paperwork for free lunch, and will allow their kids to go hungry every day. There are parents who send a rock or two with their kids to school and expect all the profits to come straight home.

I know you think that government shouldn't interfere, but don't you think there's a point where kids need help?
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:51 am

Ashiwi wrote:Obviously there are people in this forum who have never visited low-income schools. There are parents out there who will toss a piece of stale bread in a kid's lunchbox and call it done. There are parents who won't send lunch, won't bother filling out the paperwork for free lunch, and will allow their kids to go hungry every day. There are parents who send a rock or two with their kids to school and expect all the profits to come straight home.

I know you think that government shouldn't interfere, but don't you think there's a point where kids need help?

Out of curiosity, who are you responding to?
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Re: Is this your America? Public school bans home made lunches.

Postby kiryan » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:46 am

Ashiwi wrote:Obviously there are people in this forum who have never visited low-income schools. There are parents out there who will toss a piece of stale bread in a kid's lunchbox and call it done. There are parents who won't send lunch, won't bother filling out the paperwork for free lunch, and will allow their kids to go hungry every day. There are parents who send a rock or two with their kids to school and expect all the profits to come straight home.

I know you think that government shouldn't interfere, but don't you think there's a point where kids need help?


Taking care of the kids whose parents are not providing sufficient caloric intake... and REQUIRING that all students eat the schools lunch REGARDLESS of what the parents provide are COMPLETELY different scenarios. The article says kids are NOT ALLOWED to bring lunch from home period, they will eat the school lunch or nothing... and it says that at least one of the principle reasons for the decision was because kids were not being sent to school with healthy meals, they were getting sodas and chips.

I wouldn't have as big of a problem with the policy if kids could bring their own lunches to school or could opt to eat the schools lunch. It remains unclear to me how dealing with parents who "won't bother filling out the paperwork for free lunch" are handled better by being forced to buy lunches (I'd be surprised if under the chicago system if there wasn't some sort of mechanism where they just provie the lunches for free if the parents dont fill out the paperwork).

as to teflors point of kids should get a certain standard of meal... I'd suggest that anything that sustains their life is sufficient. If the parents send their kids to school with stale bread, thats probably too little, if they send them to school with a pb&j, thats plenty good. But again, we're not talking about addressing problem parents and kids who arne't getting what they need, we're talking about a policy that says no matter what you'll eat the school lunch. If you parents want to send you to school with steak and vegetables, too bad. You'll eat the crap they serve in the cafeteria that the government decided was of the appropriate nutritional value for its herd of cows.

This entire policy stinks of uniformism and government regulation of your private life in the intests of what they think is best for society and therefore best for you. its a terrible precedent and something no american should stomach.

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