Oh those special interests.

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kiryan
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Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:32 pm

300k Fire fighters. Among the most influential and big spending. Fire fighters make damn good money and have great benefits paid for by tax payers.

I was down in LA when the scandal over shift trading broke. Basically you worked 40 hours a week, but could shift trade, so guys would shift trade with someone and have 1 week on 1 week off, earning OT and double time because they were working 80 hours a week. Shift trading was guaranteed in their union contract. Base salary was somewhere around $26 an hour starting I believe.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04 ... ributions/

The nation's largest firefighters union and one of the Democrats' most reliable sources of campaign money says it will quit donating to federal candidates this year because members of Congress are not doing enough to support organized labor.

...

The union and its 300,000 members are among the most influential and biggest-spending lobbying groups on Capitol Hill.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:59 pm

Remember when Republicans thought it was sacrilege to disparage firefighters? From about September 12th, 2001 riiiiiiiiiiight up until about November 4th, 2008?

Now I guess we have to whine about how much these "national heroes" make, because that's what's fashionable on the red side of the aisle this year.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:22 pm

Finally the truth comes out, Democrats have been the ones in the pockets of wall street and hedge funds for the past 2 decades.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... tions_news

Wall Street ranks alongside the legal profession and Hollywood as a plank in almost any presidential candidate's fund-raising. After lawyers, the investment sector was the largest source of donations for Mr. Obama's 2008 presidential campaign among industry sectors tracked by the Center for Responsive Politics.

Overall in the 2008 congressional and presidential elections, Democrats outdrew Republicans, $1.9 billion to $1.3 billion, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Democrats received the biggest share of donations from hedge-fund managers for most of the past two decades. From 1990 through 2008, according to data from the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, fund managers and their employees contributed about $40 million to candidates for Congress and the presidency. About two-thirds went to Democrats.

But 53% went to Republicans in the 2010 election cycle, when hedge-fund managers' and employees' donations totaled $11 million. GOP strategists credit a core group of fund managers for helping Republicans win control of the House, make inroads in the Senate and drive Mr. Obama toward the political center.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:23 pm

I have no idea how that relates to anything I said.

I have always been critical of pay and benefits for fire fighters.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:33 am

Anyone who defends the egregious examples of public unions gouging the taxpayers is essentially a dem political hack. Certainly these examples are outliers - not the norm - and that is a fair point to bring up. But anyone who actually thinks what is happening in those 'exhibit a' situations is ok is simply bought and paid for.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:06 pm

kiryan wrote:I have always been critical of pay and benefits for fire fighters.

You really are one of the most evil people I know.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:51 pm

Do you know any fire fighters?

Do you know anything about their compensation packages?

I used to know a state certified instructor and fire fighters.

When you have friends leaving the IT industry to become fire fighters (or longshoremen, 120k a year to unload shipping crates)... you know there is a problem.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:56 pm

You are the only person I have ever met who believes that teachers and firefighters are grossly overpaid. But pretty much everything you say and think is the opposite of the truth, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:10 pm

kiryan wrote:When you have friends leaving the IT industry to become fire fighters (or longshoremen, 120k a year to unload shipping crates)... you know there is a problem.


Really? That's your yardstick for determining if someone is overpaid or not? It pays more than IT? :roll:
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:46 pm

Ragorn wrote:You are the only person I have ever met who believes that teachers and firefighters are grossly overpaid. But pretty much everything you say and think is the opposite of the truth, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Thanks for oversimplifying to the point of making shit up. He believes many teachers and many firefighters are grossly overpaid. Think back to some of the shitty teachers in your life and I'm sure you would have come to the same conclusion.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:11 pm

Ragorn wrote:You are the only person I have ever met who believes that teachers and firefighters are grossly overpaid. But pretty much everything you say and think is the opposite of the truth, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


At least where I live they are. So I guess that's two people. Though we have never met... :)

Let me put it this way. Thousands of qualified applicants for every open position. The only conclusion any reasonable person can get from that is the district is offering a windfall salary. If the salary were more reasonable then you wouldn't have so many people fighting for those positions. It's like winning the lottery really.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:28 am

Anyhow getting back to the point of this thread. Special interests!

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/art ... alth_care/

The 111-to-42 vote followed tougher measures to broadly eliminate collective bargaining rights for public employees in Ohio, Wisconsin, and other states. But unlike those efforts, the push in Massachusetts was led by Democrats who have traditionally stood with labor to oppose any reduction in workers’ rights.

== there's the setup

“It’s pretty stunning,’’ said Robert J. Haynes, president of the Massachusetts AFL-CIO. “These are the same Democrats that all these labor unions elected. The same Democrats who we contributed to in their campaigns. The same Democrats who tell us over and over again that they’re with us, that they believe in collective bargaining, that they believe in unions. . . . It’s a done deal for our relationship with the people inside that chamber.’’

== these labor unions elected these democrats. these labor unions contributed to their campaigns. Wow they seem pretty bitter, i guess they expected something in return for their financial support and their electioneering efforts?
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:56 am

and more special interests. If this case goes anywhere and isn't outright thrown out, its a political favor.

National Labor board has been asked to review whether Boeing's decision to open up a plant in South Carolina (right to work state) is illegal "retaliation" against the unions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04 ... latestnews

The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board told FoxNews.com that a board attorney's bid to stop Boeing from opening a production line at a non-union site in South Carolina is "unprecedented" and could have serious implications for companies looking to expand.

The complaint hinged on claims that Boeing made "coercive statements" regarding union-led strikes, and then retaliated by transferring its second line to a non-union facility. As evidence, the NLRB noted that a Boeing executive said in an interview that the overriding factor in going to South Carolina -- a right-to-work state where unions cannot force employees to join -- was a desire to avoid disruptions.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:54 am

kiryan wrote:and more special interests. If this case goes anywhere and isn't outright thrown out, its a political favor.

National Labor board has been asked to review whether Boeing's decision to open up a plant in South Carolina (right to work state) is illegal "retaliation" against the unions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04 ... latestnews

The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board told FoxNews.com that a board attorney's bid to stop Boeing from opening a production line at a non-union site in South Carolina is "unprecedented" and could have serious implications for companies looking to expand.

The complaint hinged on claims that Boeing made "coercive statements" regarding union-led strikes, and then retaliated by transferring its second line to a non-union facility. As evidence, the NLRB noted that a Boeing executive said in an interview that the overriding factor in going to South Carolina -- a right-to-work state where unions cannot force employees to join -- was a desire to avoid disruptions.

The NLRB can finally ask Boeing how it dares to do business in the United States of America :D
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:36 pm

Yeah, my dad is foaming at the mouth over the Boeing thing, since he lives in SC. Simple fact is, the IAWAW registered a complaint because Boeing violated the Labor Act of 2009. The NLRB investigated, determined that there is probable cause to begin litigation, and filed suit.

Either Boeing operated according to the law or they didn't. And it's currently illegal to threaten to move production operations out of state in retaliation to a collective bargaining agreement.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:52 pm

Ragorn wrote: And it's currently illegal to threaten to move production operations out of state in retaliation to a collective bargaining agreement.


So what? You have to argue according to what the law might be in 10 years if Kiryan gets his way.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:48 pm

Ragorn wrote:Yeah, my dad is foaming at the mouth over the Boeing thing, since he lives in SC. Simple fact is, the IAWAW registered a complaint because Boeing violated the Labor Act of 2009. The NLRB investigated, determined that there is probable cause to begin litigation, and filed suit.

Either Boeing operated according to the law or they didn't. And it's currently illegal to threaten to move production operations out of state in retaliation to a collective bargaining agreement.

So you say, yet the decision is in the hands of the NLRB, who's primary interest is probably in promotion of unionization.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:06 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Ragorn wrote:Yeah, my dad is foaming at the mouth over the Boeing thing, since he lives in SC. Simple fact is, the IAWAW registered a complaint because Boeing violated the Labor Act of 2009. The NLRB investigated, determined that there is probable cause to begin litigation, and filed suit.

Either Boeing operated according to the law or they didn't. And it's currently illegal to threaten to move production operations out of state in retaliation to a collective bargaining agreement.

So you say, yet the decision is in the hands of the NLRB, who's primary interest is probably in promotion of unionization.

What decision? The NLRB filed suit. It'll go to federal court, and likely be appealed all the way up. In the meantime, the plant will open in South Carolina and business will proceed while the case is being decided.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Kindi » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:26 pm

Corth wrote:Let me put it this way. Thousands of qualified applicants for every open position. The only conclusion any reasonable person can get from that is the district is offering a windfall salary. If the salary were more reasonable then you wouldn't have so many people fighting for those positions. It's like winning the lottery really.

"McDonald’s and its franchisees hired 62,000 people in the U.S. after receiving more than one million applications, the Oak Brook, Illinois-based company said today in an e-mailed statement. Previously, it said it planned to hire 50,000. The April 19 national hiring day was the company’s first, said Danya Proud, a McDonald’s spokeswoman."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-2 ... anned.html
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:18 am

Kindi wrote:
Corth wrote:Let me put it this way. Thousands of qualified applicants for every open position. The only conclusion any reasonable person can get from that is the district is offering a windfall salary. If the salary were more reasonable then you wouldn't have so many people fighting for those positions. It's like winning the lottery really.

"McDonald’s and its franchisees hired 62,000 people in the U.S. after receiving more than one million applications, the Oak Brook, Illinois-based company said today in an e-mailed statement. Previously, it said it planned to hire 50,000. The April 19 national hiring day was the company’s first, said Danya Proud, a McDonald’s spokeswoman."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-2 ... anned.html

McDonalds jobs are good jobs. They're steady, have benefits, and it's clearly a stepping stone position, as most McDonalds executives and franchise owners started out as retail store employees.

Also, there's a lot of people that aren't qualified for McDonalds. Throwing out the incomplete applications will eliminate more than half of the applicants.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun May 01, 2011 12:55 am

Ragorn wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:
Ragorn wrote:Yeah, my dad is foaming at the mouth over the Boeing thing, since he lives in SC. Simple fact is, the IAWAW registered a complaint because Boeing violated the Labor Act of 2009. The NLRB investigated, determined that there is probable cause to begin litigation, and filed suit.

Either Boeing operated according to the law or they didn't. And it's currently illegal to threaten to move production operations out of state in retaliation to a collective bargaining agreement.

So you say, yet the decision is in the hands of the NLRB, who's primary interest is probably in promotion of unionization.

What decision? The NLRB filed suit. It'll go to federal court, and likely be appealed all the way up. In the meantime, the plant will open in South Carolina and business will proceed while the case is being decided.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj
The NLRB has 'filed suit.' It's also requested an injunction to stop Boeing from doing anything in SC until the case is decided.

Now how would you feel if your paychecks were held up for months by the NLRB while it filed a bullshit lawsuit that will in no way prevent an American corporation from doing business in America, and specifically in another state?
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Sun May 01, 2011 3:21 am

Kindi wrote:
Corth wrote:Let me put it this way. Thousands of qualified applicants for every open position. The only conclusion any reasonable person can get from that is the district is offering a windfall salary. If the salary were more reasonable then you wouldn't have so many people fighting for those positions. It's like winning the lottery really.

"McDonald’s and its franchisees hired 62,000 people in the U.S. after receiving more than one million applications, the Oak Brook, Illinois-based company said today in an e-mailed statement. Previously, it said it planned to hire 50,000. The April 19 national hiring day was the company’s first, said Danya Proud, a McDonald’s spokeswoman."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-2 ... anned.html


McDonalds is forced to overpay because of minimum wage laws. If they were allowed to lower their wages they would likely offer just enough money so that a sufficient number of qualified people applied to meet their demand.

And even this is quite different from a situation where there are literally thousands of applicants for a single teacher or police job in some areas. The sheer amount of applicants in your example is staggering, but then again so are the amount of open positions. When all is said and done it's less than 20 applicants per open position at McDonald's. It isn't a lottery by any stretch of the imagination. The police and teacher jobs I'm referring to (specifically on Long Island, but they exist elsewhere as well) are quite a different story. Literally thousands trying to get a single job. No better proof that too much money is being offered for a job when you have thousands of people apply for it.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Kindi » Sun May 01, 2011 4:30 am

please cite source for thousands of applications per job opening claim
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Sun May 01, 2011 4:54 am

Corth wrote:McDonalds is forced to overpay because of minimum wage laws. If they were allowed to lower their wages they would likely offer just enough money so that a sufficient number of qualified people applied to meet their demand.


If there were no laws they might use slaves, or just train monkeys. More to the point, that's a moot point... it does not mean McDonald's jobs are in high demand it means that there aren't enough non-McDonald's jobs out there.

No better proof that too much money is being offered for a job when you have thousands of people apply for it.



Bullshit. First of all, in some places volunteer firemen are used and they still have no trouble finding applicants. There are reasons for being a cop/fireman/teacher that have nothing to do with money, and the best in any of those professions are not the ones who do it for money. Cops who do it for money are the ones most likely to end up as dirty cops when they realize they can get even more cash by doing so.

On the flip-side, there are thousands of "applicants" for pro-athletic teams, movie roles, musicians, etc... yet every time I've question how much money they are getting you say they are paid what they are worth. If you use "number of applicants" as your criteria then they are grossly overpaid. Make up your mind, Corth.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Sun May 01, 2011 7:06 am

Bullshit. First of all, in some places volunteer firemen are used and they still have no trouble finding applicants.

== some places? I was thinking about this last night, are there any/many places where you can't find volunteer firemen? I'm sure in NY and LA you could find enough volunteer firemen, but instead the public pays a bunch, in some cases $100k+ (before the gaming that they do with the union rules that at least used to double their salary).

Fire fighters in NY:

Lifelong medical coverage for you and your family;
Generous pension after 20 years of service.

Firefighter starting salary $43,074
Firefighter salary after 5 years, $99,104
Lieutenant, $125,848
Captain, $149,163
Battalion Chief $161,281

== lifelong healthcare, generous pension after 20 years. Boy going to college might've been the dumbest thing I ever did in my life.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/commu ... 0106.shtml

There are reasons for being a cop/fireman/teacher that have nothing to do with money, and the best in any of those professions are not the ones who do it for money. Cops who do it for money are the ones most likely to end up as dirty cops when they realize they can get even more cash by doing so.

== LOL is this when I start asking you for your proof for these wild and fanatastic tales from the school yard?
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Sun May 01, 2011 3:14 pm

Kindi,

http://www.city-data.com/forum/long-isl ... olice.html

150 applicants for every Suffolk County (Long Island) police job expected to open over the course of the next 4 years. So by extrapolation, 600 applicants for every job expected to open in the next year. Think they can find enough qualified people from that pool? If they cut the salary in half they would still find more than enough qualified people..

I don't have statistics on the teacher jobs because there is no civil service test. Rather, I am using anectdotal evidence as my wife is a teacher at a Long Island district and tells me about the enormous amounts of resumes they receive for every open position.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun May 01, 2011 4:02 pm

Corth,

The majority of applicants are not qualified. In my experience nearly half of all applications aren't even complete, most of the rest have no experience for the position, and a bunch will do stupid things like put down the wrong phone number or otherwise make themselves impossible to contact.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun May 01, 2011 4:03 pm

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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 12:48 am

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Corth,

The majority of applicants are not qualified. In my experience nearly half of all applications aren't even complete, most of the rest have no experience for the position, and a bunch will do stupid things like put down the wrong phone number or otherwise make themselves impossible to contact.


Take away half of them and you still have 300 applicants for all the officer jobs opening up in the next year. More for teachers per my anectdotal evidence. It is a lottery.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Mon May 02, 2011 2:11 am

Corth wrote: More for teachers per my anectdotal evidence.



Which is, scientifically, the BEST evidence!
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Kindi » Mon May 02, 2011 2:23 am

looks like number of job seekers (applicants) per job opening (available positions) for the US labor market in total was around 1.1 in 2000, peaked at 6.1 in 2009 (in the UK, it got up to 10), and is now down to 4.4 as of february.

so now i'm curious how many applicants the firefighter jobs had in 2000 and if it was proportional to the market or if the ratio changed

cool pdfs with data here: http://www.bls.gov/jlt/

one can also make the inference that recession thinking might cause more applications per job seeker if desperation kicked in, so not only would there be more seekers, but more applications per seeker. couldn't find any data on that
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 11:35 am

As a business owner who has hired people with his own money, the idea is self-evident. If I have too many people respond to my 'help wanted' ad, I -KNOW- that I am offering too much money. That's just how it works. The number of applicants is directly proportional to the compensation offered. It's one thing if I'm getting 20 qualified applicants. If I'm getting hundreds or thousands of qualified people then I am way way way off. This sort of thing doesn't happen when you are paying your own money for labor. When you are paying someone else's (taxpayers) then there is little incentive to fix things. So it happens.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Mon May 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Corth wrote:If I have too many people respond to my 'help wanted' ad, I -KNOW- that I am offering too much money.


This sort of thing doesn't happen when you are paying your own money for labor.


So which is it? Does it not happen, or did you do it? If you didn't, then how do you know? If you did, how can you claim it doesn't happen?
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 1:35 pm

It doesn't happen because i start the listing at an unreasonably low salary and then add a few bucks an hour until we start getting qualified applicants.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Mon May 02, 2011 1:43 pm

Corth wrote:It doesn't happen because i start the listing at an unreasonably low salary and then add a few bucks an hour until we start getting qualified applicants.


So then you've never done it and don't know, got it. The only thing better than anecdotal evidence is imagined anecdotal evidence! :P

I'd really like to see a better answer to Kindi's points too. Showing there are a lot of applicants is meaningless if _every_ job is currently seeing a lot of applicants.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 1:46 pm

I don't know what you are reading - but I did do it. I posted job listings at low compensation and got no responses - and then gradually saw the response rate increase as i raised the compensation. No I didn't get thousands of applicants - but it would take the suspension of some serious common sense to not extrapolate that if I listed a job at say, $100 per hour (rather than $15 per hour) I would see a LOT more responses.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Mon May 02, 2011 2:00 pm

Corth wrote:I don't know what you are reading - but I did do it. I posted job listings at low compensation and got no responses - and then gradually saw the response rate increase as i raised the compensation. No I didn't get thousands of applicants - but it would take the suspension of some serious common sense to not extrapolate that if I listed a job at say, $100 per hour (rather than $15 per hour) I would see a LOT more responses.


Extrapolations are always correct?

Image


Let's look at this another way. Remember a few years ago when I couldn't find a job and was whining about that all the time? I was applying for basically anything. This is the state many Americans are in now, thanks to the recession.

Fast forward to the present, and I'm comfortable in my current job. I occasionally look at job listings, but don't I look at jobs that sound good rather than just ones that offer a lot of cash. $80k to write SSRS reports isn't something I'd spend much time considering, but $75 to have a similar position to my current one would get me excited.

There are more factors than just cash, and you've never even tried "offering too much" anyway.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 2:15 pm

Sarvis,

It's common sense. The higher the compensation the more people will apply. If you disagree then that is your prerogative, but it's silly.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Mon May 02, 2011 2:26 pm

Can you agree on the following two premises:

1. Higher compensation will usually generate more applicants.
2. There are multiple factors which affect the rate of application.

Sometimes, my head hurts reading this forum. Obviously, paying people more will convince more people to apply. But obviously, compensation is not the only factor which encourages people to apply for jobs. Does anybody really disagree with either of these premises?
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 2:37 pm

I agree with both of those Ragorn.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Mon May 02, 2011 2:39 pm

Ragorn wrote:Can you agree on the following two premises:

1. Higher compensation will usually generate more applicants.
2. There are multiple factors which affect the rate of application.

Sometimes, my head hurts reading this forum. Obviously, paying people more will convince more people to apply. But obviously, compensation is not the only factor which encourages people to apply for jobs. Does anybody really disagree with either of these premises?



Usually, yes certainly not always. This is no proof that a job is overpaid in any case.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Corth » Mon May 02, 2011 2:42 pm

!
Attachments
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Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Mon May 02, 2011 2:50 pm

I agree with Corthpalm.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon May 02, 2011 2:55 pm

Facepalm it is. Sorry Sarvis.

I can say that frequently, one of the biggest determinant factors of how many applications are received for a position is the current level of unemployment in the expected area for unskilled or uneducated job positions. Overpayment is a relative term that varies wildly dependent on conditions.

However, definitely, an employer should seek to pay as little as applicants will accept. Unless the employer doesn't like money.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Mon May 02, 2011 3:12 pm

Whatever. Sure, a job is automatically overpaid if lots of people apply for it. :roll:
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby kiryan » Mon May 02, 2011 4:20 pm

Yes it is... emphasis compensated vs whats in your paycheck. Its simple supply and demand economics.

I think what you're saying is that there is a finite # of need for a particular job, say fireman, so if a lot of people want to be a fireman, then lots of people will apply regardless of the compensation. Going further, in your view there is a proper amount of compensation for that job irrespective of how many people apply so the position is not overpaid despite 10,000 people applying for it.

However this is exactly Corth's point, if 10,000 qualified people want a specific job, then the job is too lucrative for whatever reason (pay, benefits, location, prestige etc) and the "total compensation" should be reduced so you're not overpaying.

Also, your example of pro atheletes and CEOs is exactly backwards. In one situation, you're looking for the absolute best candidate anywhere. When you hire a teacher, are you really looking for and paying for the best teacher in the whole country? No. Its supply and demand, but you've got it backwards, for the #1 QB in the NFL, there is a supply of 1 and a demand of a dozen or so teams who could benefit from having a better qb. For a teacher, you're looking for the best cost / benefit ratio after they meet a certain minimimum qualification because you employ hundreds or thousands of them.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Kindi » Tue May 03, 2011 12:05 am

i doubt it's a linear relationship. and there are probably threshold effects
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Tue May 03, 2011 3:56 am

Kindi wrote:i doubt it's a linear relationship. and there are probably threshold effects

And probably very few applicants for positions offering $5 mil an hour.
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Ragorn » Tue May 03, 2011 1:08 pm

Like with any position, compensation level is dictated by the quality of applicant the employer is looking for. If a school system wants experienced, educated teachers, they need to offer appropriate compensation. And a high volume of applicants doesn't necessarily mean the position is overpaid. Again, quality.

I'm sure the New York Yankees could hire many "baseball players" for less than they pay Derek Jeter. But they want the best shortstop they can get, so they set the compensation appropriately, and weed through applicants. Does that mean the "shortstop" position is overpaid?
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Re: Oh those special interests.

Postby Sarvis » Tue May 03, 2011 1:49 pm

Ragorn wrote:Like with any position, compensation level is dictated by the quality of applicant the employer is looking for. If a school system wants experienced, educated teachers, they need to offer appropriate compensation. And a high volume of applicants doesn't necessarily mean the position is overpaid. Again, quality.

I'm sure the New York Yankees could hire many "baseball players" for less than they pay Derek Jeter. But they want the best shortstop they can get, so they set the compensation appropriately, and weed through applicants. Does that mean the "shortstop" position is overpaid?


Yes. Remember? You facepalmed when I said otherwise.
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