START treaty and Obama and the Military

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kiryan
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START treaty and Obama and the Military

Postby kiryan » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:39 pm

Great job negotiating. Russia gives up nothing except capability it can't exercise and would be expensive to do, we have to make cuts. Obama pitched it as needing to be done immediately, if I'm not mistaken it was one of the justification for rushing crap through in December, to free up time to take up the debate on the treaty.

Basically, Obama used the treaty to get something he wanted, a reduction in our military capability or specifically a reduction in the # of nuclear weapons that are in the world period. I don't necessarily disagree with him, but the US didn't need to sign a binding treaty to get it. We, the USA, look like fools and worse, Putin looks stronger (or medevev if you think he's in charge). I generally agree with some of the rhetoric coming from the WH / Gates in the military about which mostly advanced weapon programs they are discontinuing to save costs, but maybe this is just part of the same strategy, cut the US's military capabilities.

We spend a lot of military, I think we could probably cut a lot back and still be "safe", but I don't like these machinations if that is the purpose.

I also liked Gate's speech to Nato where he basically said, Europe, you're not pulling your share, its ridiculous that you entered the Libya campaign and are running out of ammunition less than 3 months in and the US has to ramp up to cover. You've cut your military for decades to spend on social programs and expected the US to fill the gap and defend you. Don't be surprised that if you continue to do this, the NATO alliance will disintegrate.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/ ... 0768.shtml
Teflor Lyorian
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Re: START treaty and Obama and the Military

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:52 pm

However, it does seem to place limitations on any future ambitions of the Russians.

Crappy treaty though.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
kiryan
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Re: START treaty and Obama and the Military

Postby kiryan » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:03 pm

The article suggests these limitations are meaningless due to the time and cost it would require to ramp up production to exceed the caps. In effective terms, Russia gave up nothing, yet it was portrayed over here as a MUST do deal. Why was it sold to us as "must do", like the world was suddenly going to spin into another nuclear arms race and that Russia was going to go down to walmart and buy thousands of new nuclear missiles?

2nd rule of negotation, never make your last concession a big one. It just encourages them to ask for more.
Teflor Lyorian
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Re: START treaty and Obama and the Military

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:11 pm

Obama is crap at foreign policy. With this, the treatment of Libya, and the handling of our relations worldwide without any improvement in US image abroad signals his complete failure since his election.

Although, Bin Laden is dead. We get a bump in our image with our allies for that.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
kiryan
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Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
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Re: START treaty and Obama and the Military

Postby kiryan » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:26 pm

He's either a total failure or a total success depending on how you want to think about it.

If you think his goal was to reduce the US's standing in the world, diminish our super power status and make us subject to the will of the UN and its member states, then he's a genius with his apology tours, the action in Libya and his profligate spending combined with cuts to the military / START treaty.
Teflor Lyorian
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Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: START treaty and Obama and the Military

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:52 pm

Success at failure is still failure, Kiryan.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)

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