Earthquake!!

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Pabo
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Earthquake!!

Postby Pabo » Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:21 pm

I have found it rather ridiculous that earthquake affects people that are flying and/or levitating! :shock: Why do they even need to make a saving throw and even have the possiblity of falling over? :? I think it is annoying. It's the *only* area attack that clerics have that isn't based on alignment and has somewhat usefullness. I can't even use it when grouped because I do not want fellow spellcasters to topple over. Either make it so grouped members don't have to make a save or beef up the spell some more to make it worth using. Personally tho, I would take it where players don't have to make saves at all even without fly or levitation.
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Postby Lazus » Thu Mar 27, 2003 10:37 pm

Earthquake is a very good spell if used in the right circumstances. Ever fought a room full of !bash giants that happen to be casters? Earthquake owns giants quite well and is a very useful tactic if used correctly.

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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:00 pm

Which is why it has its drawbacks.
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Postby Birile » Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:18 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Which is why it has its drawbacks.


Pabo's still got a point--doesn't make any sense for flying/levitating people/mobs to fall from this sort of spell. Pointing out a flaw like this shouldn't necessarily be negated by statements of the sort quoted above because it doesn't answer the question of whether a spell's drawback makes sense or not.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:40 pm

You could always just ask Todrael to pull up all the past threads where this was addressed. There's at least three or four that I remember. Or you could just do a search on the topic... wouldn't that be easier than demanding the staff account for it yet again?
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Postby Birile » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:35 pm

Ashiwi wrote:You could always just ask Todrael to pull up all the past threads where this was addressed. There's at least three or four that I remember. Or you could just do a search on the topic... wouldn't that be easier than demanding the staff account for it yet again?


I just did a search for the term "earthquake" on the BBS and came up with 9 matches (including this thread) but couldn't find any information in any of those threads on what the Imms' thoughts on earthquake affecting flying/levitating PCs/mobs was. I, for one, am truly interested in what their thoughts are because I never assume that I've thought of all the angles. *shrug* Having failed to find the information after searching (as was suggested) I now also don't assume that Pabo (or anyone else interested in this discussion) DIDN'T do said search before querying here. Ashiwi, was there some other way that you searched that yielded the results? I'd like to read those posts.
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Postby Bipple » Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:48 am

The vast majority of high level mobs have innate fly/lev, changing earthquake to take this into account would make the spell completely useless.
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Postby rylan » Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:43 pm

Bipple hit this one right on.
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:55 pm

And for the mobs who don't - lev and fly gear for PC's is common and fairly easy to get, so the hassle of casting the spells for it for particular fights wouldn't even be an issue if earthquake only worked on earthbound targets. As it is now, a room full of lower level nonflying caster mobs can still be a challenge if quake takes down the healer, ghealer or bashers, but change earthquake and walk in with continual earthquakes going off and all that challenge is wiped away. The zonebuilder's answer to that in order to put more challenge back in their fights is to make sure all their caster mobs are perm fly, creating another snowball effect which would render the spell useless eventually.

And I never did a search; I just remember the discussion, so I beg forgiveness. If I remember correctly the reason that was given was RP based, and had something to do with earthquake affecting not just the PC's and mobs, but also the land around the fight, resulting in lashing, uprooted trees, falling rocks, dislodged stones from ceilings, etc, etc, etc, which could affect the player. Of course a lot of people didn't seem to care for that answer, but I'm pretty sure it came down to a balance issue and that was the RP reason stated to try to give more logic to one of the many odd circumstances we have to deal with in a totally illogical environment.

Several of the arguments brought up against this were terrain based. What if the fight were in a field with no trees, no cliffs, no wild stones that could go shooting into the air? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't changes made to the world load mob code which allowed them to load in rooms based on the type of environment assigned to that room when it was built? That didn't seem to work very well, and I think that one of the reasons is that many of the older zones in the game didn't have to conform to the issues we have now.

There are probably solutions to this problem, but the effort involved in each of those solutions has to be balanced against the effort required to institute them, especially when the system we have now (regarding earthquake) actually seems to work to a decent degree.
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Postby Yayaril » Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:43 pm

8)

Earthquake also goes through globe, making it one of the most useful low level damage spells. Of course, at higher levels, people don't really use it to do damage. I think earthquake should be absorbed by globe, avoided if flying, and reduced in effect if levitating (you're pretty close to the ground). It should be completely ineffectively in a room with no ground, and have a reduced affect in a room with water (you get smacked by a wave as opposed to smashing yourself against the ground).

Then, add in a 7th circle (for druids, 8th for cleric/shaman) spell called shockwave or tremor which works in all rooms and does more damage than earthquake, but goes through globe and isn't stopped or reduced by fly/levitate.

Or change cyclone so it can bash foes who are flying/levitating. And up the power of it in rooms with noground.
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Mar 30, 2003 7:32 pm

Ashiwi's post sums it up very well. :)
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:41 am

This may be a horrible response, but the spell earthquake in D&D games I have played (and as I have read in some of the older books and manuals) caused a shockwave that was so powerful that it shook the ground, but it didn't necessarily go through the ground. I actually used this little fact to my advantage my targeting the bottom of a flying ship in one of the RL D&D games I played (a little dorky fact for you). Anyway, I think this is the true nature of the spell and so assuming the caster casted it at mid-wasted aim of everyone in the room (regardless of height of the mob or player) it should have the possibility of sending every person affected to their knees.
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Postby Sartorix » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:16 pm

I bet that if earthquake were made to not affect flying/levitating status, then a lot more mobs would be flying/levitating themselves...
That would be cool :D
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Postby Birile » Mon Mar 31, 2003 5:10 pm

Thanks for the response. It's exactly what I was looking for. :)
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Postby Pabo » Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:14 am

Now that i know why earthquake affects flying/lev mobs, why not have it not affect players? I mean come on, elementalists get a spell similar to earthquake but it is targeted to a single mob! Besides healing, when grouped with an elementalist, i usually feel pretty lame because they can do just about everything else i can. I.E. Blind, silence, even a targeted earthquake spell, and more. This isn't a flame to elementalists, but I really think that clerics need to be looked at. Not only that, they get these maladiction spells off twice as fast as me. Does it even really make any sense why they get PWB? What does that have to do with elements? And now that it has been even un-nerfed, it flames me. They get glitter dust, why keep PWB? If you are going to give blind to mage pet class, then why not give it to other pet classes? Because it will make them even more powerful!? Come on, elementalists could make a pet with a flick of a macro or a twist of their wrist to conjure one up when ever they want. Shamans have restrictions on how many times they can summon, and necros *have* to create their pets by killing them first, and not only that, preserve them and yes, their pets can cast and such, but is that a reason to give ele's a blind spell? And why do they get relocate? Gate yes, since it takes them to elemental planes and more, but why relocate? That too is another spell that has nothing to do with the elements. (I know, this is off the subject, but I had to get it off my chest!)

Maladictions should be also a main part of clerics. They should be healers and use their priestly powers to bring, well, their god's wrath, or maladictions to their targets. Maybe even add some new spells to clerics, like a plague type of spell. It will poison and weaken the target, though up to the mud, have it spread or not spread. Could use a code similar to poison, and have a counter spell, like remove disease or something. Truely, i'm sure it's been said over and over, but please please help the clerics a little. Even human clerics get screwed because they pray, cast so slow. Maybe even lessen up some chant times here. I fail my quick chant half the time and it's at 90!? I'm getting like 5 stars for a 5th circle spell that used to be 3. And yes, my int and wis is already +max! :roll: I even get 3 stars for my first circle spells, i.e. detect good,evil,magic at level 44?? Something is really really wrong here. :evil:
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Postby Dalar » Sun Apr 06, 2003 5:29 am

Sartorix wrote:I bet that if earthquake were made to not affect flying/levitating status, then a lot more mobs would be flying/levitating themselves...
That would be cool :D


any mage-type mob will fly/levitate themselves. it's part of their procedure
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Trip too

Postby Disoputlip » Sun Apr 06, 2003 1:46 pm

The same logic could be applied to trip.

But.. gamebalance > all.

/Diso.


AND NOW GET THAT DAMN ROUTER TO WORK SO I CAN MUD, GODDANGNET!!!

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