Gimme some lovin' (Bards)

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
loshaenar
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Postby loshaenar » Sat May 17, 2003 6:27 am

Birile wrote:Depok,

I also don't know how the Imms would feel about a level 41 bard proc'ing an effect that enchanters can't even cast until level 46--and only after doing a major quest, to boot.




pass that man the pipe :P group time stop ?? stop smokin detergent and think about it... offhand.. while i definately agree that bardies need a vamp to make em surivor toril finalists... what happens whenever a class gets a major overhaul here ?? everyman and his dog rolls 1 and suddenly theres six of u sitting at the tp swapping CS stories like it was going out of fashion.. the point is... with a massive influx of new pleveled eltons in the game, u still aint goin zonin... u will simply have the luxury of looking at another guy with all the shiny undies that u never had...

ummm..anyway..i'll try and think of something constructive to add to thread shortly..just needed to get that outta the system..

cheers

Locky.
Snurgt
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Postby Snurgt » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:39 pm

Iyachtu wrote:I'm also planning a rewrite of the spell list (including some spells that affect strength and speed of songs).


Bump and a quote for bard love! This would rawk.
Aldira
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Postby Aldira » Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:04 pm

Personally, I like all the spells we get right now. I use 'em all the time, for everything. Well, except chain lightning :P So, if you change the spell list, please don't take away any spells except chain lightning, hehe.

Oh, and giving us spells that increase the power of our songs sounds ok, but I thought songs were about at the power you wanted right now? Hopefully it won't require lowering the base power of songs and lower the cap or something, just because we always have these song spells up. In fact, I'd rather you just up the power of songs, period.

I had lots of other thoughts for what to do with songs, but I still have to put it into some kind of coherent, um, message. So I'll get back to this thread in a bit.
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:35 pm

i heard iyachtu is gone once again due to rl problems :( i hope he gets better.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Birile
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Postby Birile » Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:28 am

Okay, so some time has passed since some changes have been made to bards/battlechanters so I wanted to give my two cents, far be it from me to keep silent for long.

Let's see, we've got song of the elements, song of recovery, a new bard only weapon, the addition of Quality and Stutter stats on instruments as well as adding supplemental stats to them as well, a change in song power...

Let's begin with song of elements: in my opinion, aside from the unexpected pretty colors that pop up every few rounds or so, this song is useless. Compared to offensive harmony which is a definite increase in damroll (read: damage) this song is way offkey... omg I sound like a second-rate Siskel & Ebert. Anyway... there's just no need for this song as is, either replace it with something more useful or make the procs more powerful or something.

Song of Recovery absolutely rocks. Ask anybody on the mud, they'll tell you how much they love it. The big name zone leaders are big big fans and that translates into serious zoneage opportunities for bards for the time being. I just wish people would stop asking me how much I've preserved their corpse with the song (something that was planned but never implemented)! One gripe: with all due respect, the quest for this song is absolutely insanely easy. Without going into much detail, most people don't care about these items and when I was in the group that ran across the quest mob for the first time, we basically had the items on us and I quested the song right then and there, much to my surprise and elation.

The new glaive just rocks. Thank you to the person who came up with the idea of a bard/battlechanter only weapon. The quest to update it is spot on, this weapon is pretty sweet, the quest SHOULD be as hard as it is, and it's introduced people to a highly-neglected other weapon in the game. No clue if that was intended but that's what's happened.

The changes to instruments have no drawbacks that I can tell unless the base effect of instruments was lowered for the quality and stutter stats. What a pleasant surprise to see my lyre now gave me 15 hp's when I held it. Not exactly awe-inspiring since no bard really holds any one particular instrument as a "main" piece of eq but it ain't bad, that's for sure!

My initial gripe to Iyachtu concerning accompany/song power aside (we had a mature conversation about it immediately after my post where we explained our sides of things and came out understanding each other more) I would have to say that song power has been placed where it probably should be. It's slightly too variable per verse for my liking (read: the low end should be bumped up a little) but it's very nice to see the heal power on song of healing, for instance.

I think people are standing up and taking notice that bards in capable hands can be useful in zones. That's something I didn't see several months ago.

I do have one gripe, albeit a relatively minor one compared to the benefits bards have seen in the past months: the stutter rate was bumped up twice (I believe). The last bump was, I think, a little too much. Birile has a higher amount of mana compared to most other bards out there and I'm finding that I need to renew my mana at an uncomfortable rate, especially with the mana cost on some of my songs (*cough* song of recovery *cough*).

Now, don't think I haven't noticed that none of my ideas were implemented other than the song power which was every bard's crux a couple of months ago. But I'll leave things be for a month or so before kindly reminding people about the thorns still in my side!

Thanks to everyone who helped make these changes, I speak for most bards when I tell you it's greatly appreciated!

Mightymouth
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:30 am

birile, nothing's going to happen with bards. iyachtu isn't here anymore. roll an invoker.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aldira
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Postby Aldira » Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:31 pm

Instruments! Please please please oh god please change instruments! Aside from "You are not composed enough to sing.", the difficulty of finding any kind of instrument is the most frustrating thing about being a bard. I've been level 50 for weeks now, and I have over 45 playing days, and I'm still stuck with guild store-bought instruments for half of them. I have one good instrument, and I don't even know how good it is because it's no-identify! Any instrument with actual stats seems to either be some uber-rare from a tough zone, or a world quest that requires dozens of items. Maybe I'm just not friendly enough with the right people? Maybe I don't know enough about the world? I'm not sure what it is, but using store-bought 0/0 instruments all the time just makes me very depressed about my class. Rant about "You are not composed" to come later!
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:10 pm

try identifying it again :)
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aldira
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Postby Aldira » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:20 pm

I wonder when that happened.. anyways, even now that I know the numbers it has, I don't know how good it is. I only have 3 other instruments to compare it to with actual stats, all with widely varying difficulties to obtain. Could we get any kind of indication about what the numbers are for? How does '15 stutter' compare with '0 stutter'? What's 'top-end' for this type of gear? Thanks! Bards crave feedback about our class! It's so hard to tell what's going on with songs. It's all under the hood :(
Birile
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Postby Birile » Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:53 pm

Aldira,

The higher the "stutter" and "quality" stats on an instrument the better. So 15 > 0. Hope that helps a little.
Todrael
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Postby Todrael » Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:01 pm

What about Battlechanters? Do they even exist any more?
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:50 pm

i got one!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Aldira
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Postby Aldira » Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:02 pm

Yeah, I know higher is better. What I don't know, is if 15 is 15 times better than 0, or if it's 15% better, or what. Or if 15 is like having +15 strength or +15 damroll (bit of a difference there, yeah?). Do the bonuses cap out?
Aldira
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Postby Aldira » Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:48 am

For Song of Renewal, increasing the meditate skill doesn't really seem to do anything. I think it'd be nifty if it proc'd mem spell on people in the group occasionally, like that staff from Seelie Court does!

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