ATTENTION DUERGAR: PRIMES, ALTS, SECONDARYS, ENTHUSIASTS ETC

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Clan Blindhammer
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ATTENTION DUERGAR: PRIMES, ALTS, SECONDARYS, ENTHUSIASTS ETC

Postby Clan Blindhammer » Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:16 am

IF you play a duergar in any way, lemme borrow your ears. If you've been on, I've probably sent you a tell to recruit you for Clan Blindhammer (My RP clan, etc. family) among other things. Basically trying to create some unity between the duergar.

Literally, I think we are the most underpopulated race on the mud, and I'd like to see that changed.

I'd like to see some changes to the race, maybe some additions of some classes, to make this end of the evil spectrum more playable. We've got players...Grumdikanikus, Donuktanam, Karikhan, come on why does my mind always go blank when I'm listing things? Kasmarlyia, Bakeledam, Baikailisan But we're LUCKY if we've got 5 players during an entire day, literally. So lets change that.

Guys, send some replies to this post. Lets get some ptimes and lets set up a day to all get online and have a chat about what we can change to this race to get some Duergar represented on this mud. What do you guys think?

(FYI, other races are definitely welcome..if some goodie races wanna join and partake on the constructional criticism and growth of this malnutriontioned race, lemme know. I am planning on having the meeting in Gloomhaven, but we can make it somewhere nuetral if there's interest.)
King Artikerus Blindhammer
---------------
Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'I have no opinion, keeps me out of trouble.'
Malar responds to your petition with 'you die more than a morigroup'
Kossuth responds to your petition with 'please go away :P'
Rillifane responds to your petition with 'be the nance.... you are the nance... you are one with the nance...'
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:32 am

8)

The sooner you quit your pathetic evil and join the goodies, the sooner we can all group happily together in blissful unity.
Clan Blindhammer
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Postby Clan Blindhammer » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:34 am

Damn it Yaya, I'm trying to be serious here. Buzz off or be constructive, please.

I for one enjoy playing a duergar. I think they have a lot of..potential. Compared, however you put it, to the other options for their classes, we lose out.

I've made these points before:
Add Fire Embody (when it's fixed) and Trolls pwn Duergar tanks even more.
Ogres hit harder.
Drow have better agi/dex (rogues)
Drow have better intelligence/wisdom

Look at it this way: Humans are played although they are 'average' compared to all other races on the goodie side. Basically, they are played because of the individual classes they get for themselves, a.e. Necromancer, Paladin, Anti-Paladin.

Orcs, statwise are supposed to be the Humans of the evil side - and they are - only because they have Dire Raiders and Battlechanters.

Soooo, to rejuv this race, I think we've -got- to think about adding something to this race. And I suggest Battlerager, or as they were once known, Berserkers. This could also be added to Mountain Dwarfs (in fairness).

This gives Duergars a specialty class to renew playability to a hurting race. I don't remember exactly why berserkers were taken out. I've asked around and most common answer is, why have more than one type of warrior around. Well, if anyone knows, definitely post here so i can use that to further strengthen a case for battleragers.

But what I'd like to see is a hitter class solely focused on offense.
Basically an invoker for the melee classes? Minimal defensive skills
But don't get me wrong, in no way are they gonna be like, inferno-slashin mobs.

I'd like to see low level headbutt, flurry (increase chance for more hits every couple of rounds), you know, just something to make a decent hitter class that doesn't have to rely on archery. Damn, I'm gonna post this anyway, but I really wish I had a reason as to why they were taken out. Or what would imms consider allowing back in? I know they are busy balancing what we have now, and DEFINITELY classes like bards need attention before adding anything. But just ugh

ARTI FRUSTRATED
ARTI GET MAD!

Or maybe dwarf only mercenary? I guess that goes along the same line as zerkers (that they didn't want a bunch of diff. tank types). What you guys think?
King Artikerus Blindhammer

---------------

Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'I have no opinion, keeps me out of trouble.'

Malar responds to your petition with 'you die more than a morigroup'

Kossuth responds to your petition with 'please go away :P'

Rillifane responds to your petition with 'be the nance.... you are the nance... you are one with the nance...'
Dizzin
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Postby Dizzin » Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:13 am

Heh, you've gotta be kidding me. As long as you can live as an ultra, Duergar make the best rogues AND clerics on the evil side, hands down. Also, since they can be elementalists, they have the most hp of any mage class. That's over 100 hp above drow at level 50, though admittedly can only be elementalists and have a minor int penalty.

And although Duergar warriors cant hold a stick to trolls, no other race comes closer. They tank better than ogres, have the next highest strength of all races, only 1 less con notch, and somewhat decent agility.

So of the 4 core classtypes, they have the best rogues, the best clerics, the second best warriors, and are a viable choice as their only possible mage option, especially as compared to the lowly yuan.

Duergar dont need anything.
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:11 pm

Dizzin wrote:And although Duergar warriors cant hold a stick to trolls, no other race comes closer. They tank better than ogres, have the next highest strength of all races, only 1 less con notch, and somewhat decent agility.


In many bashing situations Duergar are BETTER than Trolls because natural size small + innate enlarge leads to a huge size range of bashability.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"

Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:17 pm

Karikhan licks you.
Karadega licks you.
Unrolled elementalist licks you.

I looove my duergars :)
Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:23 pm

Duergars are stubby furry drop DEAD SeXXy! Mmmmm Num! I haven't found one race yet that can give a better body massage. MmmmMmmmMMmm GOOD!! Must be all that hard manual labor in the mines. Me like! :mrgreen: What better reason could you want to be a duergar??? I need massage right now! :)

Oh yeah, and everything Dizzin said too! :D

*wiggles her buns at Artipants*

-LL
Clan Blindhammer
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Postby Clan Blindhammer » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:50 pm

I just hate to think our greatest achievement is, WOO! We're the SECOND best tanks! Honestly, clerics are the only thing that we do excel at, and thats only because of the hp bonus. And you do have to wonder, though, if we're as good as you're saying we are, then why aren't there more of us? There's something missing in this equation.


1. No more backrubs for Ll.

Sorry Assie, I wub Karikhan to death.


Honestly though, it's not just the fragmented evil pbase that is leaving Duergar to being practically non existant. It's the playability. When you are the second best tank race, but are 3/4's useless in outside zones without squids, it huts. (ultra) When you can't regen fast, it hurts (Trolls) When you don't mem fast, it huts (Ellies)


I honestly do not think adding a specialized class or adding anything at all would overpower or be wasted upon Duergar. I know I'm partial to them, but god damn i'm sick of being one of the few regular duergars on. There is APATHY in the duergar race pbase and it needs to go away!
King Artikerus Blindhammer

---------------

Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'I have no opinion, keeps me out of trouble.'

Malar responds to your petition with 'you die more than a morigroup'

Kossuth responds to your petition with 'please go away :P'

Rillifane responds to your petition with 'be the nance.... you are the nance... you are one with the nance...'
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:03 pm

You guys should get more sun. It's good for the skin.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:48 pm

Clan Blindhammer wrote:1. No more backrubs for Ll.

Sorry Assie, I wub Karikhan to death.


I thought you were a lover and not a hater! :cry: No more rubs for me, nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! :( :( :( :(

They do make the best evilrace clerics tho Artipants! You do have that! They make top notch duergar too! Look how many of the evilrace rogues on the top of the pile are duergar! :D Duergar rogues ARE the best spank cr'ers of the rogues! :D

If you think duergar have it bad, yeesh, look at the ogres! I see.. Asup. I see... Asup. I see... Asup. Hey look Gogk logged on! There's two! Wahoo! :D

Methinks maybe Soj3 just isn't the time of the duergar. The period known as Toril sure was. They dominated evilraces in all ways! Soj3 I guess is the time of the drow! Rar! :D :D

Ya gotta a lotta spunk ya not realizing Artipants, even if you are a drow hate-ah! :(

-LL
Clan Blindhammer
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Postby Clan Blindhammer » Thu May 01, 2003 3:45 am

Yuan-ti clerics are pretty equal with Duergar clerics IMHO, and they have a bash innate and no ultra. and nice natural stats

Duergar rogues are only good cuz they have strength notches and innate strength.

Overall, I see more Drow rogues, more Drow clerics, than Duergar anything combined.

And Ogres/evils in general have it bad cuz of the Europe connector problem going on.

Damnit, I'd like to hear a god say something at least, either shut me up or encourage me or somethin!;)
King Artikerus Blindhammer

---------------

Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'I have no opinion, keeps me out of trouble.'

Malar responds to your petition with 'you die more than a morigroup'

Kossuth responds to your petition with 'please go away :P'

Rillifane responds to your petition with 'be the nance.... you are the nance... you are one with the nance...'
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Thu May 01, 2003 4:02 pm

Duergars suck. I hate the little overgrown rats. I think we should eliminate the entire race from the mud, and more importantly, delete and siteban artikerus. And since my word is law, i expect this to happen immediately, or else Kossuth loses another toe. That is all.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Clan Blindhammer
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Postby Clan Blindhammer » Thu May 01, 2003 7:59 pm

I'll go if your mullet comes with me ye underfed ogress fondling orc faced gnoll lookin goblin smellin yeller bellied yuan-ti-thong wearin' bastard son of a one headed ettin's runny droppings!
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Thu May 01, 2003 8:09 pm

Clan Blindhammer wrote:I'll go if your mullet comes with me ye underfed ogress fondling orc faced gnoll lookin goblin smellin yeller bellied yuan-ti-thong wearin' bastard son of a one headed ettin's runny droppings!


Thats just, like, your opinion, man.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Fri May 02, 2003 3:39 pm

IMHO .. duergars make the best evil clerics .. sure we need that pesky squid or a fogger .. but ... lets ask tis .. would you rather be ressed by a snake??(ie FAILBOT!) or a duergar (me:P) (also them poor snakes missing those eq slots ...)

depending on my current eq i need 5-21 hps extra to top 1k UNVITTED ... with my normal set its 21 .. tweakin eq .. its 5 (dont wreally wanna remove ALL the max_wis tho)

and rogue? hell yeah i will stay as a duergar!

duergar's are just fine as they are :)


Nothin new here .. please drive thru!
Donuktanam
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Postby Donuktanam » Fri May 02, 2003 3:47 pm

Yeah artipants, :twisted:
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Fri May 02, 2003 4:37 pm

Kossuth is down to 7 toes. That is all.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Fri May 02, 2003 5:29 pm

and by the by .. THE Ogre still plays .. she just sleeps lots more

LeaderX group says 'Telina/Karikhan/whoever the hell you are on as .. get Ambar'

You group say 'one mention of quick mem and i word! .. i SWEAR i will'
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Fri May 02, 2003 6:24 pm

Some race/class combinations simply don't get played even though they are quite effective. But because they ARE effective, messing with them to give people incentive to play them more can be bad balance wise. How often do you see gnome warriors? They can use max_con items to lower the hp gap between them and dwarfs and barbs and have the second best agility among good races, but people still don't take them seriously. Likewise, you don't see many dwarven rogues, either surface or cave midget, compared to halfling, human, or elven (again, surface or cave) ones even though they get higher hp and considerably more damage. Stats don't affect skills as much once mastered, so the penalty to dex isn't going to affect much in the long run. For that matter, there's also not a large number of human necros despite their high power. That's been the subject of many a goodie/evil screaming match here. Obviously there are plenty of reasons to play one, but people just aren't so drawn to it as other classes for some reason.

The only thing that wouldn't have the potential to throw things out of whack regarding duergar might be to make it easier for them to get out of UD. IIRC, they have a harder time of it then squids due to lack of innate lev. That could be a factor since it does make CRs for low and mid levels more annoying.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri May 02, 2003 9:22 pm

I, for one, take gnome tanks very seriously, heh. Hildibble is a beast.
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri May 02, 2003 11:45 pm

Ambar wrote:IMHO .. duergars make the best evil clerics .. sure we need that pesky squid


I thought you loved me :(
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"



Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri May 02, 2003 11:47 pm

Treladian wrote:The only thing that wouldn't have the potential to throw things out of whack regarding duergar might be to make it easier for them to get out of UD. IIRC, they have a harder time of it then squids due to lack of innate lev.



That's not the reason ;)
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"



Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Sargax
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Postby Sargax » Sat May 03, 2003 12:40 am

Duergar clerics really are the best. At higher levels, that extra int drows have make very little difference. I've compared stats and stuff with Kunrikan and there's really not that much difference in terms of memtimes and such (come back Surlydorf!). Duergar clerics are great for the extra hps and that's what clerics are for. you need to stay alive for the group.
I'm just lazy, when I rolled Ellana, I was still kind of new to the mud so DK was an easier choice for me. I think that's what a lot of the problem is regarding the low duergar population, that newbies get discouraged when after dying, they can't get past waterbreath part. I've ressed countless of little duergars, otherwise they don't know how to get back to DK.
As for Duergar warriors, they just get overlooked unfortunately in favor of trolls. Duergar warriors rock if you know how to play a warrior! Especially for those who have seen Gromi in zones *grin*
I love playing an ultra. I find it weird when I'm on my troll and all I can see are red shapes. Besides, having a squidy with you is great. Squidy goes into room first and protects you! *HUGS Xisi*!

Ellana
Ionari
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Postby Ionari » Sun May 04, 2003 3:08 am

Ragorn wrote:You guys should get more sun. It's good for the skin.


Hahahaha!
Io

Olit tells you '2000hrs on each of your 5 corpses'
Dugmaren responds to your petition with 'It'd be less spammy if you just deleted again.'
Lilithelle says 'to divine most peoples fates you need to read palms or tea leaves, but in ionari's you just read the corpses'
Alurissi tells you 'no, you're not safe, you're a suicide machine'

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