Poll : Named Weapons

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Stamm
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Poll : Named Weapons

Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:03 am

I love them.

Any chance a moderator could make this a poll?

Options :

1) Yes, bring back named weapons, they add something.
2) Well, yes, but make sure that the items are incredibly, uber rare.
3) It's not something that I'd feel bothered about, either way.
4) No, I prefer it without named items, how can anything that is not unique be a named weapon? It's just silly to be in a group with two people wielding the same named weapon.
Salen
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Postby Salen » Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:12 pm

I would think only with a restring/god quest should they be around, which means unless you know someone who owes you a favor, you aren't getting one.
Gura
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Postby Gura » Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:26 pm

haha hi5 salen...well said.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'

Nokie wiggles his bottom.
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Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:45 pm

Yea, i've been here since the beginning of the wipe, done tons and tons for the mud, been on almost all the rp events, led many of them, and I have yet to get even 1 restring :( You'd think having 3 highbies I'd have several.

EDIT: I hate grammar, and I have to go back to school soon! *groan*
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:22 am

I want my widowmaker back.

That is all.


No, wait. I want the belt back too.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
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Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:17 am

Salen and Gura, you both have restrung items, I believe, no? I need a favor from you...
Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:28 pm

Malar wrote:Salen and Gura, you both have restrung items, I believe, no? I need a favor from you...


Considering they're level, how long they've been with the mud, and their involvement with the mud why isn't it that they have 3 or 4 ? Is there some aspect of restringing that harms the mud that we players do not foresee?
Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:36 pm

Gyrx wrote:Yea, i've been here since the beginning of the wipe, done tons and tons for the mud, been on almost all the rp events, led many of them, and I have yet to get even 1 restring :( You'd think having 3 highbies I'd have several.


Generic Response:
I believe this has a lot to do with how you participate, react to, and get involved in the RP experience. I'm pretty sure staff can kinda tell who's just Rp'n to get an item and who's Rp'n for the love of it. I wouldn't blame them for wanting to reward the players who are doing it just for fun rather then to get something. :!:

Specific Response:
Gyrx/Korris/Xassis, you've recently been dedicating a lot of personal time towards the betterment of evils as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if certain parties had noticed and taken note, and it would be a shame more then anything if they intended to do nothing about it. :?

My Opinion on Named Objects:
I feel the staff is handling it perfectly. I concur entirely with the current method of how this is handled and restricted. It should take a lot of time and effort, and continual RP submissions over time, to receive something so particular and unique in our gaming enviroment. Named objects should be far more rare then simple re-strings. :wink:
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:48 pm

How we do rewards now is based on an accumulative points total. We started this as of the death of Orcus. Now the system is still being debated and fleshed out, and we will be making sure it works. Restrings are a damn cool thing, and other than uniques/artifacts, they are the best reward you could ever get out of quest participation.

In regards to old rewards/restrings, most were given during FNAT's, back in the day when Iuz went a little crazy with eq. Myself and the other staff are trying to rectify this situation by making those who really deserve them, get them. Badges are currently being discussed/debated, for both associations and normal rewards. When something is decided, you'll be informed.

Now, in regards to participation. Participation doesn't just mean going there and being a meatshield. It's the tiniest of the factors that earn points. RP, and doing it very well, and making an active effort to RP at every turn are what we watch and reward. Those who earned the restrings at the conclusion of Shadows of the Abyss (the chapter of the campaign designed by yours truly) were those who I felt had done an exemplary amount of work in helping make the campaign work and stay alive. They wrote stories on the BBS (hint hint), they were always fully RPing when any session was going on, even if they were not in the group.

This is the reason we are now RP-Quest. We wish to bring out the RP aspect in everyone. We are working on many different ways to help enhance the RP atmosphere, and I've got 1 project in the works (info files rewrite) and many others on the board right now. It's a busy busy job for us and we hope you guys can make it easier for us by using our new RP forum board to post your campaign-related stories. We do read it, and we do read every other outlet that is RP-related.

One last thing. We don't play favorites. Never, ever, ever. We adhere to a very strict chain of command and any rewards go up the chain of command past me through Shar and then to the Forgers. That's only if you've done the work to earn it. I just wanted to clarify that, despite what you guys have come to believe. If you really want to ask myself or one of the other RP-Quest sphere members what you can do to be more active (I've preached this a dozen times now at least), mmail us, or send us a tell if you see us vis (which will never be during a session). Also, the RP-quest forum board is listing times for up-and-coming events that you could participate in. You do not have to be in the group to RP. Gsays and tells aren't RP, either (in case you didn't know). We only monitor says, emotes, shouts, and general actions (paladins smiting homeless beggars is a penalty).

Now to answer the original question. Named weapons/items are allowed if you earn a restring as a reward. Nilan, Gantoris, and Nitania all had their daggers restrung and reansified to their liking at the conclusion of Shadows of the Abyss. You just won't see them on "normal" eq from zones. That is all.
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Postby Vahok » Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:45 pm

Only beef I have personally have with all this is the fact it seems the only way to get a restring is to RP. My prestige means nothing, the fact I have been 50 for over 2 years means nothing, and the fact I'm guilded means nothing. So, do I have to roleplay for several months, get one and go back to my original ways? I'd feel bad to RP just to get a restring...it wouldn't seem fair to the serious role players. I think we need a second option to get one..

This is a RP mud to a certain point, but it is not manditory. Are the best players in the game the role players, so they are the only ones to deserve a restring? This is not an attack on anyone who does RP but do they deserve one more than some people who do not RP...

Some deserve one for many other reasons. Newbie helpers, zone writers, guild officers, etc. I would like to see more access to them for the mud as a whole ...
Last edited by Vahok on Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meatshield
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Postby Hyldryn » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:20 pm

I'd prefer restrings to be highly restricted. When everyone starts walking around with uniquely named items it becomes no longer special.
Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:47 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by Llaaldara on Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:55 pm

Llaaldara wrote:So why do you deserve or want a restring Vahok?


Why do restrings have to be so selective that all the things mentioned by Vahok mean nothing?
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:58 pm

Gyrx,

Hyldryn wrote:I'd prefer restrings to be highly restricted. When everyone starts walking around with uniquely named items it becomes no longer special.



If everyone has them, then what? We're right back to square one.
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Postby Gura » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:00 pm

ok so yea i have a restring. know how i got it? rokub won it from a restrung invasion trip and wow he lent it to me. then he quit later on so i inherited it. other than that i have a badge and more prestige than 75% of the people on this mud from your quests but i've never been awarded anything. i dont see how you even say that no favorites are played because i seem to remember a certain someone getting a personal quest for a restring no wait actually i think it was 8 restrings he received for it.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:15 pm

Gura wrote:ok so yea i have a restring. know how i got it? rokub won it from a restrung invasion trip and wow he lent it to me. then he quit later on so i inherited it. other than that i have a badge and more prestige than 75% of the people on this mud from your quests but i've never been awarded anything. i dont see how you even say that no favorites are played because i seem to remember a certain someone getting a personal quest for a restring no wait actually i think it was 8 restrings he received for it.


Gura!!!

You don't need a restring! :D You look better eq-wise (and different I might add) then 95% of the warriors on the mud! You're stacked! You have big pipi! :wink:

Us poor folk down here only chance to look even a glimmer as spiffy as you gotta do it thru restrings. :cry:

------------
Ok SERIOUSLY. I do not understand the following arguments you guys have made. Please explain:

1) I don't like to RP, but I want to look different then everyone else similar to my class/alignment combo, but I don't want to do harder more difficult zones with more rare items that'll make me look different, I'd rather just get a restring?

2) I have Tiamat level quality of equipment, or just uber hard to get items very few other people in the game have (let alone the combination of items I have noone else has duplicated), yet I want a restring that shows my eq is different?

3) I don't care about RP, yet I want restring newbie level items that are only good for RP purposes?

4) I've done the same thing 50-100 other people have done, I deserve a restring?

:roll:
Last edited by Llaaldara on Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shuanerst
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Postby Shuanerst » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:35 pm

Since I like to spout ideas, how about this (for the !rp restring)

A restring will be given for foo prestege and bar xp. Where both are high.

I don't know enough to be able to pick appropriate levels, but around 5k prestege (roughly what a level 50 has for just being level 50) and a couple of levels worth of xp (say 10 deaths worth) sounds expensive enough that it's not that bad.

The real question as Gyrx put it is "Why not?" Other than retaining the rarity of restrings, what is the mudwide impact? On the rarity issue, what is the bar to a restring? What is the max one character should be able to acquire (ever)? How much prestege/xp do the top people have? What costs would make this roughly equal? We quest items, spells, and remorts automatically, why not restrings? (Also if restrings should not be autoquested, why do we autoquest other thing?)

Just some random thoughts that likely make no sense
-Shuanerst

PS Are restrings transferable? Would suck given restring rarity to have the swank restrung item no longer be the (game mechanic optimal) choice to wear in that slot because of the eq changes that are coming...
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:59 pm

You tell me who has 8 restrings and got a personal quest. I'm curious.

We can't and will not monitor people who trade off restrings. Though we do remember and take that as a sign of you don't really care about them. :)

As for more options for *anyone* to earn a restring, we are working on ways to do this. Not that I can promise anything, but I've got several ideas undergoing scrutiny of the staff.
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Postby Hyldryn » Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:52 pm

Of course a big influx of restrings would require more time by the gods to check the restrings and put them in. That sure sound like fun for the sap assigned to do this.
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Postby Vahok » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:25 pm

Llaaldara : why do I want or deserve a restring (and yes, I noticed you deleted the reply)? Shrug, I'm tired of looking the same as every other evil warrior. On the deserving note, I feel I deserve it as much as everyone else does. Yes, my eq combo probably is unique, and I have done pretty much every zone possible. I want a piece only Vahok has. I don't think I have to justify it to you.

Malar : thanks for looking into other options, it's all I wanted to hear.
Meatshield
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Postby Gura » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:11 pm

well i believe a few or most of the restrings were handed out to people who helped but the personal quest was for someone's wedding. that should ring a bell for u. another thing rq. how come you have to RP for a restring? why can't people get the ability to do a quest here and there without RPing if it doesnt suite them? Just because someone doesnt RP in one of your quests doesnt mean they aren't participating it just means maybe they look for something different in this game and they shouldnt be penalized or less likely to get a restring for it. just my 2c.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Salen
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Postby Salen » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:42 pm

One last thing. We don't play favorites. Never, ever, ever. -Malar


Really? So could you tell us how many of the people who were hand-selected to get the rings for the last quest thing didn't get restrings when it was over? Then could you tell us how many of those !restring people had quit playing when the Orcus thing happened?

The last quest was based around a few God-selected people who were given the driving force behind the quest, then rewarded for participating, while some players who attempted (multiple times) were locked out of the quest by those very same hand picked players, thus being denied any opportunity. I would think giving out items guaranteeing participation in the quest would rebuke your 'Never, ever, ever' claim.

Further, I only know of 1 person in the game who had a quest tailor-made for him, and as a reward received an item better than 'the best' in-game item. If I'm wrong and other people have had these experiences with similar rewards, please enlighten me.

As for restrings, yup I have three. Two snowflakes and a badge. I traded for a snowflake and did two holiday events, 1st Christmas and the Halloween event. Since the 'holiday' events are seemingly no longer happening, and FNAT is gone, the only way to get a restring is to please a God.

You can call 'participation' anything you want, but it is still making a positive impact on administration by meeting unknown criteria that gets high marks. We all went through elementary school. Was it just me, or doesn't it seem odd that the kids with really high participation points were the teacher's pets? I, for one, don't recall any of the 'bad' students ever being nominated for ANYTHING, award, club, etc. at school, let alone winning. Even that kid who kicked everyone's ass didn't get best player in football, even though he dwarfed everyone else's accomplishments. Oh yeah, and the kid who did what he was supposed to, but not much more, he didn't get noticed either. Now the idiot blonde that sucked up to every one of her teachers, she won student of the month, even though she couldn't pronounce half the words on the certificate, nor spell achievement correctly.

It might be a case that you want to look up the terms 'de facto' and 'de jur' (I spell that right?), apply them to your 'never, ever, ever', then rethink your statement.

As always, I could be totally wrong, but that's how it looks from the cheap seats.
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Postby Eilistraee » Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:41 am

Please disregard ANYTHING that happened before the rings quest. As of the conclusion of that, a new modus operandi came into effect for the RP quest sphere. Arguing that player x received certain restrung objects due to FNAT, Monty Iuz or any other events from those days is useless. They're over. Done. Finished. Gone forever.

We operate under new guidelines for granting players rewards. Does this mean you have to impress us? Well yes, you have to roleplay a character where we can see it in order to even enter consideration for quest sphere rewards. No, we're not going to tell you the rating system; if you have any questions regarding your roleplay and/or any problems we may see, then you are welcome to mudmail Malar, Auril or myself with your questions. We don't care if it's 'right' or not that you are playing a grey elf married to a drow, so long as there is a character reason behind it and the story is supported!

The RP-Quest sphere is by its very nature is a dynamic entity. What we do must, by necessity, be flexible and change with the mud environment as it changes. The restrings at the conclusion of the rings were rewarded to those players who played an active part in the conclusion. The ringbearers were guaranteed a place, and they were rated based on our judgement of their participation. Do we consider some players 'quest pets'? Hell no, but there are some players that go absolutely out of their way to foster the growth of a story. Funny enough, they see more questing action, and as a result have more of an opportunity to get rewarded. See the corollation?

Instead of CONSTANTLY whining about how player X wouldn't let you play, speak with us directly about it or at least via mudmail. There is not a single mortal who has the credibility or ability to tell us who and who not to quest. You want to RP and quest and have a chance to participate, the chances are there. We post the sessions in the RP-Quest Discussion forum.

Let's see how many of you who are complaining put up and participate.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:40 am

Vahok wrote:Llaaldara : why do I want or deserve a restring (and yes, I noticed you deleted the reply)? Shrug, I'm tired of looking the same as every other evil warrior. On the deserving note, I feel I deserve it as much as everyone else does. Yes, my eq combo probably is unique, and I have done pretty much every zone possible. I want a piece only Vahok has. I don't think I have to justify it to you.

Malar : thanks for looking into other options, it's all I wanted to hear.


But why? If it's effectively useless except for RP, what would you use it for other then sit in your bag taking up space to be pulled out on extremely rare occasions?

What's the big deal?
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Postby Salen » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:04 am

So it's ok to mention things from before end of 'Rings' (specifically, Malar calling Gura and I out on restrings), but only if it doesn't hurt the Admin's case?

Also, I notice that those people who, so far, have been involved with the RP stories are, for the most part, the same people who were handed a spot in the 'Rings' quest.

But that's enough of that.
As for restrings in general, I would rather see a 1 vote per person/IP, and award those people who do the most for the mud, play their character(s) to the hilt, whatever, with a restring. If it is going to be a 'reward', make it for something that helps. Todrael and Lilithelle come to mind; both have gone far out of their way to help new people learn and enjoy the game, and a good number of the truly 'new' people here stayed as a direct result of their actions. Everyone on the Mud owes something to both people, either as a direct result of their help, or as an indirect result from players they made feel at home staying and becoming a part of Sojourn.

Beyond that, since prestige has NO use, will not have use in the near future, and probably will never have a use, build a system by which it can be used to purchase a restring. It has been said repeatedly, and turned down time and again. Why? Because someone somewhere has some idea about how it will be used, but has yet to give players any inkling of what good it will be, yet to implement any action for it, and has, it would seem, demanded 'hands off' for anyone else to devise a use for it.

Next, since there are guidelines in place for level 50 titles, implement a similar system that would allow people to write stories of a higher caliber for submission, with the end result being a restring. Not only does this allow the creative of people to grow, it gives others a chance to read them for entertainment (the sole purpose for most any game) and gives the opportunity for the growth of real characterizations within the mud.

Allow a contest where in people go out into the mud and find the items that have no description when you look at them. Either by admin or players, vote on the best new description for an item, and reward the winner with a restring. Not only does this again reward creativity in the player base, it also would fix numerous items in the game that presently are very bland.

Following up on the previous, have a 1 day/week/month contest for who ever turns in the most typos/grammar mistakes. Where it is something not spelled right, run on sentence and fragments, or simply ansi code showing, it is a flaw within the game that needs to be fixed. Someone to take the time to find them all (well a bunch of them), there could be a reward. For each time you do a hunt like this, the task gets harder (the easy typos should be fixed after the first could contests).

Restrings are about individuality as much as accomplishments. To some people they mean absolutely nothing. Good evidence of this; each of us was given a snowflake (or holly) that Christmas, yet very few of the original owners still have them. A few were probably gifts sure, but most were traded off for better eq. To some the look is more important than the accomplishment; a number of people who had nothing to do with the event have two because they look good, even though the accomplishment belongs to someone else. To some it's all about the accomplishment

Whatever the reason for wanting restrings, they are a part of the history of this game. Should they be for some huge quest? yes. Some great RP event? Yes. Some great accomplishment for the betterment of the Mud? Yes. Restrings don't unbalance this game at all. If anything they could go a long way in removing a good amount of the money/eq glut that is here now. If every restring required two of the item restrung, 1 to restring and 1 to cover the 'cost', a good deal of eq would leave the game. If they cost 5k prestige and 10k plat, a good deal of money would leave the game.

Restrings could be used to solve a number of problems seen by players.
Four of the big complaints with the Mud from players
'Everyone looks the same'
'Everyone and his brother as a XXXXX item'
'Money/prestige isn't worth anything'.
'God Hulburg/Clouds/Oakvale eq is Fugly'

All four of those are solved by my suggestions above. While I know very little about coding, I can't imagine it would be too hard to impliment all of them, let alone 1 or 2. Again, the problem would be the time admin would have to spend restringing items, but after an initial rush, I wouldn't expect too many of them at any given time. A good part of the time problem could be solved by having Admin make appointments to restring eq, or require submission of restring, and when the Admin gets to it, then it gets changed (so you might send in your restring Monday, but not see it until the weekend). This would let admin look over the item to see that it fits the world... if not, you get a mudmail that says 'We don't agree with X part. Re-submit different text for approval.' If it's text worked, then you receive a mudmail that says 'Your text is approved, you have X number of ansi character spaces available. Please send 4 times you will have at least 15 minutes available to work out colors, so that we can make an appointment.' You send them times, Admin chooses one that works and Mails you back. You don't show, you don't get your restring. Assuming you get the text right and show up, 2 mudmails each direction and a couple of minutes, you have your restring, you don't look quite like everyone else, and either you are less some eq/money/prestige, the mud is less some !descript eq/typos/fugly eq, or we have a new story to read. In any case, everyone comes out better in the end.

Oh, and as a P.S., I don't think restring tokens should ever be awarded from an RP quest. I think those restrings should be done by the Gods running it, and have some tie-in to the quest itself. For instance, the Orcus thing.
Dice 1d15 for goods
Then with evils, dice 1 15
If it is a warrior, have a restrung /reworded Ebony called A broadsword seared by the blood of Orcus, if mage have one of the many staves restrung 'the partially destroyed wand of Orcus', rogue a dagger 'a cracked fang torn from Orcus, cleric a restrung orb or such, 'The cold stone heart of Orcus.

Gura retrieves a broadsword seared by the blood of Orcus.
Gura wields a broadsword seared by the blood of Orcus.

Salen retrieves the cold stone heart of Orcus.
Salen holds the cold stone heart of Orcus.

Now Gura died 2-3 (6-10-50) times (Salen didn't die 8) ), and all they got was an Ebony, (cooler than any Ebony ever wielded) and a smoke orb. Pretty average items for the crap they went through, but neither one is complaining at all, it has very specific meaning that stands for one of the epic events in Sojourn history, and everyone is ready for the next quest to start.

Now, I hope that fulfills the 'Don't bitch about stuff being wrong, give ideas of how to make it right' section for the evening.

If something doesn't make sense, sorry, I'm not going to edit it now as I have toiled too long already. If it needs revising, I will do it later.
Auril
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Postby Auril » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:59 am

Let me add my voice in support to those from my sphere.

Unless you are in the sphere, you will most likely not know the full extent of the changes we have endured. Most gods don't know. And I'm not about to inform you of everything that has changed - a good portion of it was problem-resolution, and you simply don't need to know.

"Also, I notice that those people who, so far, have been involved with the RP stories are, for the most part, the same people who were handed a spot in the 'Rings' quest."

I will agree that most of those who have written roleplay stories had been granted the position of Ringbearer. They are not the only ones who are active in the questing lately - and you may not dispute that unless you actually show up to participate and look around you. We cannot force people to write roleplay stories, and those who put the effort in to be useful pawns seem more likely to tell you about it. Not our problem. You are more than welcome to show up to quest, write your own perspective and open yourself up to the possibility of becoming my pawn. More fodder is always welcome.

Thank you for suggesting some alternatives for earning restrings. That is much more productive, much more appreciated, than pointing fingers.

Much has changed in the past year, and things are still in the process of changing. Unless there were a player wipe or all restrings were reset, there will be remnants from the past that must just be accepted as the way things were.
Vahok
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Postby Vahok » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:18 pm

Llaaldara wrote:
Vahok wrote:Llaaldara : why do I want or deserve a restring (and yes, I noticed you deleted the reply)? Shrug, I'm tired of looking the same as every other evil warrior. On the deserving note, I feel I deserve it as much as everyone else does. Yes, my eq combo probably is unique, and I have done pretty much every zone possible. I want a piece only Vahok has. I don't think I have to justify it to you.

Malar : thanks for looking into other options, it's all I wanted to hear.


But why? If it's effectively useless except for RP, what would you use it for other then sit in your bag taking up space to be pulled out on extremely rare occasions?

What's the big deal?


It's not a big deal but it's pride, reward, fairness, etc. I mean if I had a badge indicating my guild...cool! I'm proud of my guild and would like to show it with a bit of style. Or restring an item I routinely use. The item I'd like to restring would be a treasured item, not something that would sit in a bag. Restrings are not for RP purposes only...many of us have many different reasons for wanting them.

As others have posted...I think it would be cool if someone like Lilithelle had a badge showing all her generous nature and dedication to the mud.
Or someone like Todrael for his tireless efforts to assist the evil side. Restrings are rewards...they should be for more then RP purposes only. (however, they do certainly add to someone's roleplaying)
Meatshield
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Postby thanuk » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:25 pm

Salen wrote:One last thing. We don't play favorites. Never, ever, ever. -Malar


Really? So could you tell us how many of the people who were hand-selected to get the rings for the last quest thing didn't get restrings when it was over?

I had a ring. I wasn't hand selected. I got the ring because I spent 3 hours running around the UM, then went back the next day and did it again. Then I got my ass kicked in the vortex with a group of great people who had no business being there. Twice. Then I got a ring. It was up for grabs, really. After the first night everyone on the mud knew the ring was down there, because we didn't get into the vortex. I was the one who lead the group that went back for it, so I got it. I had also been with 3 other people on their quests to get their rings, i would think that had something to do with it.
Salen wrote: Then could you tell us how many of those !restring people had quit playing when the Orcus thing happened?

I had also quit by the time the orcus thing happened. Didn't get a restring, btw.
Salen wrote:The last quest was based around a few God-selected people who were given the driving force behind the quest, then rewarded for participating, while some players who attempted (multiple times) were locked out of the quest by those very same hand picked players, thus being denied any opportunity. I would think giving out items guaranteeing participation in the quest would rebuke your 'Never, ever, ever' claim.

Locked out my ass.
http://www.sojourn3.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8933

I went on the BBS and begged people to come participate. I don't see a reply from you in that string, Salen. Don't say you were locked out when I was holding the door open and screaming, and you didn't want to come in.
Salen wrote:Further, I only know of 1 person in the game who had a quest tailor-made for him, and as a reward received an item better than 'the best' in-game item. If I'm wrong and other people have had these experiences with similar rewards, please enlighten me.

Because the guy was going into the god damn navy the next day and wouldnt be playing anymore. He could be dead right now for all you know, K.I.A. And you don't want him to have a quest to send him off because its unfair to the other people? Get over it.

Salen wrote:As for restrings, yup I have three. Two snowflakes and a badge. I traded for a snowflake and did two holiday events, 1st Christmas and the Halloween event. Since the 'holiday' events are seemingly no longer happening, and FNAT is gone, the only way to get a restring is to please a God.

You can call 'participation' anything you want, but it is still making a positive impact on administration by meeting unknown criteria that gets high marks. We all went through elementary school. Was it just me, or doesn't it seem odd that the kids with really high participation points were the teacher's pets? I, for one, don't recall any of the 'bad' students ever being nominated for ANYTHING, award, club, etc. at school, let alone winning. Even that kid who kicked everyone's ass didn't get best player in football, even though he dwarfed everyone else's accomplishments. Oh yeah, and the kid who did what he was supposed to, but not much more, he didn't get noticed either. Now the idiot blonde that sucked up to every one of her teachers, she won student of the month, even though she couldn't pronounce half the words on the certificate, nor spell achievement correctly.

This is bullshit too. I bitched at the staff all the time when I played. I constantly harassed malar for personal amusement. I have been caged, Silenced, sitebanned, and whatever other punishments they give out here. I think i got deleted once on toril. but they still gave me a ring, all i had to do was go get it.
And the criteria isn't exactly a big secret; the criteria is to role play. But the gods don't monitor every say by every player 24 hours a day, so you sometimes have to do it for a while before people start to notice. Posting stories always helps too.

Salen wrote:It might be a case that you want to look up the terms 'de facto' and 'de jur' (I spell that right?), apply them to your 'never, ever, ever', then rethink your statement.

As always, I could be totally wrong, but that's how it looks from the cheap seats.


Maybe you should look up "whiny little bitch" in the dictionary. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, people actually just did more than you did to deserve what they got, and its not a big favoritism conspiracy? Ever look at the people on the ring quest, and see how long they've been playing this game? Most of them since sojourn 1. If favoritism is rewarding long term players who have put in alot of time over the years, then im all for favoritism. there were a few new people too, like Artikerus, who didnt have the time in but played a big role in the RP aspect, so it isn't a pre-req to have played here for years, although it sure helps.

As long as we're on the topic of restrings, I came in 2nd in the description contest in 1997 and won 10 restrings. I used 3 of them. Then the mud wiped. I want the other 7 back please, just so I can rub them in everyone's face, since im the god's favorites. Just ask Kia.

Llaaldara wrote:2) I have Tiamat level quality of equipment, or just uber hard to get items very few other people in the game have (let alone the combination of items I have noone else has duplicated), yet I want a restring that shows my eq is different?

Yes. I have sleeves from bronze citadel, and although cool because few others have them, they are the gayest item i have ever seen. They are leather sleeves. I want them restrung.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:43 pm

thanuk wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:2) I have Tiamat level quality of equipment, or just uber hard to get items very few other people in the game have (let alone the combination of items I have noone else has duplicated), yet I want a restring that shows my eq is different?

Yes. I have sleeves from bronze citadel, and although cool because few others have them, they are the gayest item i have ever seen. They are leather sleeves. I want them restrung.


Hrmm.. well if the the item name and ansi sucks, why not just suggest new wording and color to the are maker himself? If your sleeves are a pretty rare item, and your input is taken to heart by the zone maker, then by changing them all at the same time it could be seen as getting yourself a restring? Probably would be a lot less effort on your part to. Talking to someone and giving a couple of suggestions vs writing RP stories/questing/zoning/being in RP.

Ps. I remember Thanuk screaming and yelling bloody murder for help, and LIKE USUAL most people just wanted to zone. It's always like that. Noone wants to help until they miss out and are jealous of others for having things they don't.

Oh well..

[Edit insert]

I thought about what Salen just posted tho. He does have some valid points amidst all the other 'stuff'. Any system that does not involve all types players for an equal reward, then by it's very nature shows favoritism, because it is restricting one type over another. Which is favoring one over another.

Segregation = Favoritism

Like it or not. The sad truth is the only way to completely remove any hint of favoritism is to institute a system that caters to all types of players. I believe the current system would work for RP players, and a new one geared toward players who don't like to RP.
Last edited by Llaaldara on Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby thanuk » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:52 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Hrmm.. well if the the item name and ansi sucks, why not just suggest new wording and color to the are maker himself? If your sleeves are a pretty rare item, and your input is taken to heart by the zone maker, then by changing them all at the same time it could be seen as getting yourself a restring? Probably would be a lot less effort on your part to. Talking to someone and giving a couple of suggestions vs writing RP stories/questing/zoning/being in RP.


It's funny you should mention that, because that's exactly what I did.

You petition "hey kia, you got a second?"
Kiaransalee responds to your petition "whats up?"
You petition "these sleeves from BC have cool stats, but the ansi is pretty lame. Would you consider changing them to something like Obsidian arm plates or something like that?"
Kiaransalee responds to your petition "Done. Will be fixed next boot."

The next reboot...

<worn on arms> a rainbow colored pair of silk sleeves with pink tassles


Kiaransalee responds to your petition "Not all highlevel equipment has to be black and red."

Now maybe it was just because Kia is a dick. Maybe it was just cuz it was me asking. But I learned my lesson right then and there. Not exactly the open environment of idea exchange that you hippie bastards always talk about, if you ask me.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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OMG!

Postby Verarb » Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:08 pm

[/quote]

<worn on arms> a rainbow colored pair of silk sleeves with pink tassles

quote]

OMG! Droool
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:02 pm

thanuk wrote:
Salen wrote:The last quest was based around a few God-selected people who were given the driving force behind the quest, then rewarded for participating, while some players who attempted (multiple times) were locked out of the quest by those very same hand picked players, thus being denied any opportunity. I would think giving out items guaranteeing participation in the quest would rebuke your 'Never, ever, ever' claim.

Locked out my ass.
http://www.sojourn3.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8933

I went on the BBS and begged people to come participate. I don't see a reply from you in that string, Salen. Don't say you were locked out when I was holding the door open and screaming, and you didn't want to come in.
Salen wrote:Further, I only know of 1 person in the game who had a quest tailor-made for him, and as a reward received an item better than 'the best' in-game item. If I'm wrong and other people have had these experiences with similar rewards, please enlighten me.

Because the guy was going into the god damn navy the next day and wouldnt be playing anymore. He could be dead right now for all you know, K.I.A. And you don't want him to have a quest to send him off because its unfair to the other people? Get over it.


The issue Salen speaks of where people were kept from participating in one fashion or another did happen. Please don't make me go into details, just know that it occurred, and have faith that the Quest staff are doing their best to be fair and impartial, in spite of what the players are capable of.

As for Gormal's personal quest and him going into the navy... Gormal went to Europe, and last time I talked to him he was really enjoying himself. Everybody knew he was going to Europe, at least I did before he left and assumed others did too. Calinth went to Kuwait. He's been over there in the desert with people shooting at him and certainly didn't get a hand-tailored quest before he left. Why is that? Because everybody knew and (mostly) liked Gormal. I know for a fact that Gormal got that quest because of who he was friends with, and to deny that at this point seems kind of silly. I don't hold it against him, I adore Gormie, he was a great guy with an impossibly overbearing personality who was very easy to be friends with once you got past the initial shock. Calinth was a pretty quiet guy, kinda shy, but very nice... but the simple fact is that Cal wasn't friends with guys in high places, and they didn't exactly post a notice saying they'd offer personal quests to all our mudders who were leaving to be in the military. Anybody who talked to Gormal knew he wasn't being shipped out to a dangerous area, so playing the guilt card seems a little extreme.

There was quite a bit of favoritism that happened. I'm not saying that's either a good or a bad thing, but to deny it happened would be just turning a blind eye, and to demean somebody for pointing it out when it really did happen seems a little... wrong. The quest staff is now working to include all who want to be included. Sadly, the ones who do end up included and get the most rewards are still going to be the ones with the most connections who are the most popular OR are well known (liked and well known don't always go hand in hand), in one form or another, and people are still going to complain about that, but it won't be because the staff is intentionally showing favoritism, it will be because those are the people who tend to be more active and put more work into getting noticed.
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:14 pm

Let me respond by saying thanks to Thanuk for saying what I want to say but can't due to PR.

Gormal's session was run by Miax. If you have a complaint, take it up with him. But if you wanna take it up with me, I can tell you he gave up 8 high level items (including rares and jot invasion eq) in order to get to the end of his quest. Like Eilistraee said, anything prior to the death of Orcus (before the major sphere overhaul) is pointless to bring up, it's old news and we aren't going to justify things none of us had anything to do with.

The 12 ringbearers were selected by monitoring RP before I ever ran the sessions that handed them out. Some of those people were dormant and thus had their rings handed out to other RP folks. Out of those original 12, only 10 received restrings. The other 2 never bothered showing up for neither the destruction of the rings, nor the slaying of Orcus. I never knew Thadrin one iota but didn't hesitate to string him up and drag him to TF when he was RPing his ring he had *traded* for as containing the soul of his dead love. Most of these people I never knew other than watching them RP over the course of several sessions and stories posted, etc. So don't go accusing me of having pets or brownnosers, it's just not true.

Hell, I'm fairly convinced most of you guys hate me because all you seem to do is bitch about everything I do. I poured countless weekends into making this work, I had to do a lot of sphere restructuring to keep the entire sphere from being dismantled upon Iuz's retirement, I wrote every single bit of areas work regarding the Orcus stuff (everything but the procs on Orcus himself, I even wrote those proc messages), I'm rewriting Bloodstone (4 road zones, the city proper, and the mines) and the info files currently (the info files have had 130 pages added to them, probably another 100 more by the end of it all), and the RP-Quest staff (especially Auril and Eilistraee) has constantly tried to get people to participate in all sorts of events and things by even being as blatant as posting the times on the BBS now. We bust our asses for you guys trying to make things FUN and all I ever hear from you jaded cynics is bitching about restrings or favoritism. Well, get over it. You wanna earn a restring? Spend less time bitching on the BBS about everything and spend more time RP'ing and exploring other veins (stories, character stories) of RP instead of complaining that you don't have one.

Oh, and by the by, I tried to do the Orcus rewards based on the zone point system. It was gauged on RP + being there, and even if you were just some average joe off the street participating you could have gotten an item equivalent (pointwise) to an elemental ring. But there was a lack of communication higher up the chain, and the Forgers shot down the entire thing. So, as a last ditch effort to save my own ass from looking like a liar (I had posted that rewards would be given out), I had to barter back and forth with them to even get what I did (2k prestige, 2k plat, 2 setbit/restrung magical items, restrings for the top ringbearers). So, sorry that I *tried* to be the good guy.

Guess I ended up breaking the PR rules anyway.

Malar - officially on vacation now.
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Postby Nilan » Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:03 pm

Instead of all this whiney ass bitchin *oh gods i said ass!!! :)* you guys should just play the game and have fun with it. Salen, I'm not sure where you get your information but saying that ring bearers were hand picked is silly. Thanuk wasnt hand picked. I sure as hell wasnt hand picked. Deshana wasnt hand picked. Oosh wasnt hand picked. etc.... All these people worked hard, died lots, and had the guts to keep trying to attain one as thanuk did in the vortex of hell in undermountain. I know Deshana and I aquired our rings because we butted our lil noses in to everyones rplay business. I discovered who was holding the rings, rplayed with them and aquired mine from a bearer who wasnt able to continue to rplay at the time. i think Deshanaa aquired hers in a similar means.

So before ya start spouting of about favorites and hand picked try to use yer brain and think..."Maybe those people aquired a ring because they didnt give up and kept trying to attain it" You could have done the same if you wanted to but ya didnt. I know the goodies posted countless times on bbs and through conversation that they were trying to set up adventure groups to go after rings and rplay. Thanuk posted tons. Im an evil and I know of their efforts so you did too. you just didnt take advantage and go in the group or make the effort. kinda silly to whine now.

Think about the time and efforts that go into to coding and putting on one of these events. Instead of being BBS Bitch Man, get off the couch and into the game. Play. Play Play!!! Dont whine whine whine.

Anyone can get involved. Heck i trying to get as many involved as i can. On the evils side many people are enjoying the adventures. Sesexe and Zathep are really developing their characters. Kosaj, Torv, Oosh and countless others are taking part in it too. We are having a blast. Level, Class, How long you have Played here, whether your a veteran or Newbie, these adventures are open to all that want to come play. Why dont you try to get involved and have fun. You might find you enjoy it.

Okie, enough Said. But in final note

JUST PLAY THE GAME HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE COMPANY OF FRIENDS, SOME DAY THESE FRIENDS YOU SHARE WITH WILL NO LONGER BE HERE.

Make the best of the game, have fun fun :)

Nilan
aka
Stabby
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:01 pm

I dunno what this thread is about anymore. I thought it was about named items. Then it became about restrings. Now it's degraded into unique items.

What's next? Goats? :wink:

Vahok, I just realized what you were talking about when you said restrings for guild offiers. Why don't you just say give us back Guild Badges? :D I could see that happening. They were very neat to have back in the day. I don't agree with unique restrings for each officer tho.

Ashiwi, maybe you're right. :wink: Unfortunately your argument seems to be that only people who meet those requirements is gonna benefit. In case you didn't know:
1) I'm not a popular person, most people hate my guts.
2) I don't have friends in high places, a lot of them up there despise me too. Especially Erevan. I've argued very viciously with staff before. The BBS is childs play compared to what I've done over petition and in tells.

I have two RP restrings. I got them for exceptional character development and RP from Miax, despite what I'm sure people have tried to say. I RP differently then anyone on this mud, because I do something noone as a player does. I mean it. NO ONE. What is it? I quest the staff. :D

What do I mean? During a session, I'll use or make up my own plots and stories that have to do with my character and start pushing them on the staff's mobs, but not to the extent that I try and take over who the focus of the current quest is on. I'll even make fake notes from other mobs in an attempt to give my character's RP credibility. :D Also, most of the time I stay true to my character and don't go "Oh hey look it's a quest staff member, lemme see what I can get out of this!" and break character so that it fits what is going on (I'm not saying YOU do, I'm just saying I don't do this.) I keep to my character so much, in fact, that most times during sessions my character behaves more like another NPC. I've noticed Dungeon Masters and Quest Staff folks love this, because I have my RP set to give, not just receive. :D

Like I said, maybe you're right. It all comes down to who puts the most time and effort into being noticed. :D I put a lot. I often hear "You've got too much free time" when they see some of the stuff I've done and come up with. :roll:

I don't mind being a support role, if it increases the RP and happiness of all involved. :D
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:09 pm

Ashiwi wrote:Sadly, the ones who do end up included and get the most rewards are still going to be the ones with the most connections who are the most popular OR are well known (liked and well known don't always go hand in hand), in one form or another


I certainly don't remember suggesting you might be a likable person, Llaaldara. Maybe I misread myself... :wink:
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Postby Salen » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:59 pm

On Handpicked

Salen, I'm not sure where you get your information but saying that ring bearers were hand picked is silly. -Nilan

The 12 ringbearers were selected by monitoring RP before I ever ran the sessions that handed them out. (Note, HANDED THEM OUT) - Malar

I will agree that most of those who have written roleplay stories had been granted the position of Ringbearer. (note, GRANTED) - Auril

It would look to me that the people in charge of the quest sphere did indeed pick the Ringbearers, and admit that they did. If I'm reading it wrong or missed something, please show me where.


On the Navy

Because the guy was going into the god damn navy the next day and wouldnt be playing anymore. He could be dead right now for all you know, K.I.A. And you don't want him to have a quest to send him off because its unfair to the other people? Get over it. -Thanuk

Wow, you have a greatly overestimated sense of danger when it comes to military service. How many people over the years of Sojourn have gone into military service, then compare that to the number of people who have had quests HANDED to them. I bet you find a very low percentage of when comparing the latter to the former.
You are right, he could be K.I.A., so could any number of other people who perform dangerous jobs, yet I don't know of any of them that received a special quest. Nice try on an 'end of the world' situation though. Try the Chewbacca defense next time, it's more effective.


On De Facto Exclusion

Out of those original 12, only 10 received restrings. The other 2 never bothered showing up for neither the destruction of the rings, nor the slaying of Orcus. -Malar

Just for the record, I would like to point this statement out to all of the people who claimed the quest rewards were unbiased. 10 of 12... 80+% of the people who were handed rings (before I ever ran the sessions that handed them out.) received a restring. By the shear act of putting trigger items in people's hands, the restrings were essentially gauranteed. In contrast, how many people over the same amount of time received a restring for other activities? I don't know the answer to this, but I would wager that it was very low. Even assuming just the 40 or so people involved(including those that left early or joined late) with the killing of Orcus, it would require 15 of those 18 non-ring people to have received a restring sometime from the start to the finish of the Rings quest to meet an 80% return ratio. If you throw out spoiled results (the 2 who quit/were not there) 100% of the ringbearers were given restrings. A single choice by Admin handed players the restring.


My original comment in this thread was based on the perception that I (as well as some others obviously) have about how unusual items are now, and have always, been distributed. It was a pretty flippant comment met by an equally flippant one by Malar. Fine, I can own up to having them (though I see a large difference between getting restrung eq and getting to restring eq). At that point I was done with the thread. I came back to it to point out a blatantly false claim by Malar. He chose to speak for the entire Sphere

One last thing. We don't play favorites. Never, ever, ever. -Malar

and in doing so, mispoke at least, lied at worst. Ever is a very long time. While the current incarnation of the Sphere may or may not play favorites (not much has been obvious since Orcus), the Sphere itself is mired in favoritism. Anyone who believes otherwise is either stupid or lying. Because Malar chose to bring up old restrings (my snowflakes) in an effort to discredit the statement, I believe that I should be able to hold him to past actions of the sphere, of which he was, at least recently, involved with.
Further, I cannot believe the powers that be insist on denying that the entire history of GodRun Quests is wrought with Favortism, nor can they grasp the concept that anything built on that history is just as flawed.

To be honest, I gave up on the Quest Sphere a long time ago when Admin sat in a room, watched a player intentionally excluding people from the quest, and did absolutely nothing to counter it. That feeling was renewed when they rewarded the few people who had been given, traded for, found, won bids on, or otherwise acquired rings with something most anyone in the game would love to have, yet were de facto excluded from months before.

One parting shot then I'm probably done..

Nevermind. As Ragorn said, it's sometimes better to just hit the back arrow.
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Not RP

Postby Todrael » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:02 pm

Sojourn 3 is not a RolePlaying MUD.

Sorry to pick on Malar here, but this is the most recent example that I have logged and can find easily.

Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead shouts 'all your fiery bands are belong to us!'

Malar says 'do a who ogre bard'

Malar shouts 'i'm checking the group lists to see who has RP on! if you don't have it on you get to meet orcus right now!'

Malar dons a troll sized condom on its head.

Now tell me exactly how this is supposed to make us feel like we're fighting demons to control the fate of a doomed and destroyed Bloodstone, with a real God ready to take form right nearby at the pinnacle of a magical quest that took months of work?

Is it fun? Yeah, sure. It was funny, to a degree. Is it RP? I would use harsh language here, because I feel that strongly about it, but for now I'll just give an emphatic 'no'.

In recent days, I've spent most of my time online doing RolePlay. And I mean real RP, where the MUD (MUX, actually), is formed completely around, and dependent entirely upon, people just emoting things over and over to each other. And I have a lot of fun doing that. Sojourn's emote command doesn't even allow more than 3 lines of text. That's considered the bare minimum for any 'good' RP that I tend to have. I often get up to 10 lines if I'm really into the RP. People that use the 'say' command in these places are scorned for not having creativity or being able to RP.

Maybe I'm an RP elitist... I've actually responded to a couple people that tried to RP with Todrael. I had fun with that. I've participated in many quests. I even had one of those fabled rings everyone is talking about. It was given to me by someone else that didn't really know what was going on, and thought it looked like something a lich should have. I gave it to Nilan, because I didn't want anything to do with 'RP' as the people of Sojourn recognize it. Deshana tried to get some information from me, since she heard I had it.. I demanded she give me a small human baby as payment (there are several just lying around Bloodstone), and meet me at the tar pits. That would have been interesting to RP, if she actually accepted.

Also, anything more than one-on-one RP suddenly becomes who can type their response the fastest. No one does facial expressions, or gestures, or actual thoughts. Sojourn is a glorified chat room. People use the socials as if they meant something. Their characters are so shallow and stereotypical it's rather insulting. I have to admit it's hard for me to think of the mind of a lich, but my playing style is heavily influenced by the character I play. I would love to find RP on Sojourn again, but I don't believe it's possible, even if 'things have changed'.

As for renames and restrings, yeah, I'd like to have one. I've got several weird, unique things sitting in my bags. Christmas items, a heart-shaped cookie, the Superbowl bag, some vampire cloak, 2 of the items from the Orcus quest, and a badge. I like the badge. It used to be really horrible, something I won from Monty-Iuz, but Malar was kind enough to restring it to what I wanted. I have no idea why he did that. Maybe he was bored and noticed it was ugly. But I really really like the badge now, and I've thought of wanting another one, even if my set is rather unique already. But am I willing to put myself through the torture of what people here call 'RP'? If I wanted to RP, I'd play somewhere that is actually for RP. Which is, of course, why I haven't been around. Pay for it with prestige? That'd be interesting. I have some of the highest of anybody around, just because I'm always on for these 'RP quests' that require zone-powerful groups. Plat? I don't loot anything, so I'm poor as hell. Wouldn't be able to afford one.

I guess all I'm really trying to say is that I don't think you people know what RP is. The stories on the board, the socials and says in game, the 'events', no matter how much work and dedication has been put into them, are so easily ruined by someone wearing a troll sized condom or not once doing an actually original emote. For RP to be effective, there has to be suspension of disbelief, and immersion. Sojourn has neither of those, nor do I see it ever acquiring the ability for verbose, eloquant RP of a nature many people enjoy elsemu*, doing it purely for the sake of enjoyment rather than ansi or codey bits If you want that, then I suggest you hit the Mud Connector and start browsing for someplace other than here.
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
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Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:31 pm

I know what Roleplay is about. To say I dont is silly Todrael. Heh i play here cause i love to rplay. Its fun for me and helps me in more ways than you or others even imagine.

Just Play the Game have fun and lets quit bitchin bout who has the biggest and the best. Thats not what thi game is about. Its about fun.

Nilan
aka
Stabby
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:16 am

Sometimes comic relief can be used to ease the mounting tension in a group. I confess I have done some silly out of character things in my time, but I'm allowed to have stress relief too, right? The day Orcus was slain was a very laggy one due to the MUD being on a cable modem. I was having to deal with constant petitions and I had to find some way to get you people to *not* quit. Oh, and the RP shout was done because we *WILL NOT* quest or acknowledge anyone any longer unless their RP flag is on. That event was run for RP purposes and all were expected to have the flag on.

Tod, I don't see you doing anything other than sitting in Lord Zauviir's bedroom day in and day out. I don't think that's really RP, and any stories about it wouldn't really be conducive to a "family-oriented" MUD. Sitting around being pissed off doesn't do anything more than warrant a flea, a violin, and a tear. Sorry to pick on you.

Everyone has their own opinion of what is RP, and what is not. We go by what the sphere has laid down as groundrules for RP. Thee, thou, etc, aren't really considered RP, but being in character as your alignment, class, race, sex, etc would state is a big start. Sometimes stereotypicality is a good base for building your character from. Don't blow it off as trite and boring, even though it can be. Not everyone is as creative as the others who go to such lengths as write their character's RP story via ask triggers, or write tons of stories.

You say the MUD is a glorified chat room. Sure, it is for some. They come to chat with friends. But we monitor emotes as well as says, like I mentioned earlier. The more you can get into your character the more we will take notice.

It's very difficult to carry on 15 conversations at once while switched into a mob, and lo-and-behold people don't have manners and wait their turn to speak. So yes, it is hard to converse with everyone and respond to all, but I make an effort to try my hardest. And therein lies the challenge to you, and the other morts. Make us notice you, do things outside of sessions.

I restrung your badge and all other ANSI-crime badges to something more suiting to your tastes, it was a gift from me. I'm sure there's still a few out there that I'm missing.

Now, can we please move this topic to another thread? It has degenerated into yet another RP/restrings argument and has nothing to do with Stamm's original question.

Malar - going to bat for the morts but always getting booed by the peanut vendors
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:09 am

What Todrael could have said, in one sentence was 'It's not hardcore RP enough for me'.

Simple as that.

And as said, can we get back to the topic?

I think weapons with names have more personality, they are more memorable, and I think having several of the same item spread around isn't such a bad thing.

After all we can often see mobs raising their own corpses as wraiths for example, we can kill Tiamat, and next boot she's alive (when it goes back in), we see creatures wearing nothing but a ring...it's not perfect here (not that I'm complaining at all), and I think named weapons add more than they detract.
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:14 am

I missed this earlier, but having had it pointed out to me, I felt I had to respond.

Salen wrote:The 12 ringbearers were selected by monitoring RP before I ever ran the sessions that handed them out. (Note, HANDED THEM OUT) - Malar


Your conspiracy theories are trumped up and frankly stupid. If you'd look past your own nose long enough to read a little more into what I said, I said "monitored RP". Each ring was given out one at a time. I evaluated RP before I did each and every one of them to see who was actively RPing at that given time. How else would I give them out? Just pick someone who logs in and hand it to them? Get real, yeesh. You're nitpicking things trying to find a defense for your arguments and you're running out.

To be honest, I gave up on the Quest Sphere a long time ago when Admin sat in a room, watched a player intentionally excluding people from the quest, and did absolutely nothing to counter it. That feeling was renewed when they rewarded the few people who had been given, traded for, found, won bids on, or otherwise acquired rings with something most anyone in the game would love to have, yet were de facto excluded from months before.


As to your admin comment, admins have nothing to do with our sphere. If an admin was playing their mort and witnessed this, it is not their duty to slap hands or correct anyone. A better recourse of action would have been for someone to mmail myself or another sphere member of this activity. I never saw one.

Out of those original 12, only 10 received restrings. The other 2 never bothered showing up for neither the destruction of the rings, nor the slaying of Orcus. -Malar

Just for the record, I would like to point this statement out to all of the people who claimed the quest rewards were unbiased. 10 of 12... 80+% of the people who were handed rings (before I ever ran the sessions that handed them out.) received a restring. By the shear act of putting trigger items in people's hands, the restrings were essentially gauranteed. In contrast, how many people over the same amount of time received a restring for other activities? I don't know the answer to this, but I would wager that it was very low. Even assuming just the 40 or so people involved(including those that left early or joined late) with the killing of Orcus, it would require 15 of those 18 non-ring people to have received a restring sometime from the start to the finish of the Rings quest to meet an 80% return ratio. If you throw out spoiled results (the 2 who quit/were not there) 100% of the ringbearers were given restrings. A single choice by Admin handed players the restring.


So you're saying people who don't participate should be handed restrings then? What do you want next? Everyone to be given 50th level when they roll up? And if you'd reread what I stated earlier, I tried to get more rewards for everyone, moron. This is what I meant by nitpicking.

Fine, I can own up to having them (though I see a large difference between getting restrung eq and getting to restring eq).


Restring = restring = restring, doesn't matter if you earned it, traded for it, got it out of a candy machine at 7-11, it's a restring of an already-existing item.

One last thing. We don't play favorites. Never, ever, ever. -Malar

and in doing so, mispoke at least, lied at worst. Ever is a very long time. While the current incarnation of the Sphere may or may not play favorites (not much has been obvious since Orcus), the Sphere itself is mired in favoritism. Anyone who believes otherwise is either stupid or lying. Because Malar chose to bring up old restrings (my snowflakes) in an effort to discredit the statement, I believe that I should be able to hold him to past actions of the sphere, of which he was, at least recently, involved with.
Further, I cannot believe the powers that be insist on denying that the entire history of GodRun Quests is wrought with Favortism, nor can they grasp the concept that anything built on that history is just as flawed.


Calling me a liar is not something I take lightly. As for your statement, a LOT has been going on since the death of Orcus, you've just been too wrapped up in your own self-serving attitude and can't see past your own attitude to realize a lot more is going on in the MUD than you care to see. This resorts back to the looking past your nose comment I made earlier. I never said anything prior to my existence was not favoritism, I'm saying what is going on *now* (read: Sojourn3, the now, the present, the time beyond the past in which you like to dwell) is not favoritism. As long as I am a member of this sphere there will be no preferential treatment. I'm still waiting for you to post some valid claims of this supposed "mired in favoritism". You can't, and you won't, because you're too wrapped up in nitpicking every other comment I make to serve your own ends. Grow up.

The current sphere operates under MUCH different circumstances (again, something you have no clue about) than it did on Toril. We have a wide variety of new commands and utilities designed specifically for us now, many of these designed to make things easier for us so you guys get MORE questing sessions. Stop pointing fingers and take a look at yourself and your own actions and how you have done absolutely nothing to be a part of the solution.

Now, take this to another thread and let Stamm get his feedback.
Aldavien
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Postby Aldavien » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:29 am

Sheesh...cut the imm's some slack...its not like they go out of their way to screw over the players (..right? :D) I for one really appreciate the work the RP sphere does for the players. I personally haven't had much interaction with the RP stuff but that is due to both inexperience at RP and personality conflicts with a few of the bigger RP personalities on the PC side. Just was reading this post and realized i should start trying a little bit harder when i get back to mudding again. Also would like to issue a general thanks to all the imm's...they try hard to make the mud much funner for us all but we never seem to give them the credit they are due..

Telser Teve'ral }-Empiric-{ Shades of Twilight

AKA Aldavien Altreel
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Postby Auril » Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:45 am

You know what? I give up on this thread. Either that, or I give up on you.

There are some damned good points in here, and a lot of garbage. Probably the worst of it all is taking one sample, one person, one event, and deciding that the one thing accurately describes everything else.

When you choose to let one thing, one person, one event colour your thinking of everything else from that point on, it no longer matters what else is said, what else is put in front of you.

Give up on us if you want. Accuse us of favouritism if you want. Nothing I say will get through, because you have already decided that that's how it is. Fine, I don't need that attitude, and there's a handful of others who turn up at the posted times to interact. I'm done with this.
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:49 pm

Stamm wrote:What Todrael could have said, in one sentence was 'It's not hardcore RP enough for me'.


In defense of Tod here, that's really not what he was saying. Soj wasn't a great RP environment last wipe when I first started, when RP was more enforced, and it's only less so, now. I first started my mudding career in a fully RP enforced game, and the difference is like night and day. I feel safe in saying that Soj is NOT an RP required game, no matter how much I would have loved it if it were.

With that being said, even I will admit that it makes no sense to restrict unique items to a cultivated group. If the full staff were trying to foster roleplay and wanted to officially change Soj's position on RP environment, then the stance of rewarding only one group with uniques would make sense, but since the staff maintains a collective "laid back, do what you will" position on roleplay and how it relates to Soj as a whole, then rewards for the pbase, especially in the form of uniques, should be potentially available to all who choose to make Soj their home. Now if Soj chose to shift their stance on roleplay to something more expected, then rewarding the pbase for behaving in a manner that reflected the heart of the game would make sense.

I used to think just like Llaaldara about this subject, that if you didn't choose to RP you really don't have any reason to want a restring. In real life I choose to not be overly anal about my appearance. I don't have to have makeup on just to run down to the corner convenience store on Sunday morning and pick up a rare cappuccino treat for myself. I'm more comfortable in sneakers than I am four-inch platform wedges. I get my hair cut in a style that allows me to simply wash it in the shower every morning, brush it, and leave the house without having to worry about my blowdrier and curling iron. All of that doesn't mean that I don't really enjoy putting on the tight bustierre, the mascara and the strappy stilettoes to show off that fabulous new color I have on my perfect pedicure. People are all unique individuals, and they want to express themselves in unique, individual ways, and that includes with the way they dress.

Sure, we all have the potential to go quest a rare item, or go to a really badass zone and win a rare high level item, but those items of the builder's making are not as unique as the vision we have of ourselves in our own imaginations.
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Postby Stamm » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:13 pm

Sorry Ashiwi, that is what he said. At least you tried to add something to the thread rather than just have a go at people. Well, more exactly what he said was 'I'm bitter, Sojourn roleplay sucks, I'm better than all of you because I roleplay harder and better, Malar is the devil.' The only possibly constructive thing from his post that, perhaps, Malar could take some care to avoid spoiling the atmousphere. But Malar would have to have a pretty thick skin not to be insulted.

In around an hour from now I will be selling kitchens. It's what I do for a living. While I'm planning a kitchen with a customer I might crack a few jokes, or talk about the weather (I'm British, it's compulsory to complain about it) or the football or something. I'm still selling a kitchen though. Maybe my boss, who could well be called Todd Rail (he is a she, and she's not), might tell me that I'm not doing it right, I should be talking about kitchens, and only kitchens. Maybe he'll tell me that cracking a joke totally ruins my sales pitch. Maybe he'll tell me that mentioning the next old firm match will stop me closing the sale. But either way, that's how I sell kitchens, and I am selling kitchens.

Anyone logged on to Sojourn is roleplaying to some degree, no matter how small. Maybe you're just better than me Todrael, or maybe you're just a snob.

If the style of RP here doesn't suit you here Todrael, then try to improve it, or if you have nothing to add, then just ignore it.

As for Ashiwi's justification of restrings, I agree. Even if I'm not engaged in RPing all the time, or at all, I'm still playing a dwarf warrior, and I would find it added value to the experience if I could change the names of the items I was wearing to closer match me, my personality, or what I see the personality of my character.

Edit : But can we get back to the topic of this thread? All you restring whiners can, in the words of the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket 'Get the f*** off of my obstacle!'
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Postby Todrael » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:20 pm

Thank you, Ashiwi. One of the main reasons I felt I had to post what I did is because I played a Paladin on Sojourn 1 and Toril, and as many people know, the roleplay enforced on them during those times was strict to the point of possible deletion for certain acts. For almost 3 years I played a Paladin in an actual roleplay environment here on Sojourn, and I haven't seen anything that came even close to that since. Stamm's use of his job as some kind of example is wholly flawed, as marketing is a very well-studied and practiced field of expertise with proven methods and college level degrees on how best to make a sale.

On another note, I find it highly amusing that everyone is posting their best to counter every argument made against them, pointing out flaws, adding new information to the debate, then tacking onto the end 'Now be quiet and let me have the last word.'
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
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Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:23 pm

Look at the topic of the thread.

#if {@topic={Todrael Bitching About Poor RP Standards|Whines About Restrings} {post_crap} {discuss_named_weapons}
Dizzin
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:29 pm

Named weapons should only be in the game as restrings. To this end there should, eventually, be a hardcoded way to get restrings that doesn't involve having to go through RP staff or any other staff aside from the actual restringing process.

The rest of this thread can best be summed up in the immortal words of my MUD hero:

blah blah blah blah

blah blah? blah!

blah.
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Postby Todrael » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:51 pm

How witty.
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
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