Skill Increases: What REALLY seems to be going on!

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Delmair Aamoren
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Skill Increases: What REALLY seems to be going on!

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:24 pm

Ok, being as bored as i am, and recently not getting many groups (not that i've been actively hunting but bored most of the time) i've taken the time to improve and top off the skills that either i regularly use that don't go up with regular use, or skills i rarely use at all. One skill in particular recently got my attention, as hitall got a revamp making it significantly more useful than in the past. I decided this would be my first skill to improve. Not long into obliterating mobs in splitshield, i decided it would be a wise choice to use a different type of weapon that my standard 2h slashing and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Doing it this way has opened my eyes to how incredibly slow some of the skills go up. For instance, with hitall, i had a total of 3 improvements in taking 1h piercing from 41-95 AND taking 2h bludgeoning from 50somethin to 99.

This, to me, was broken. I was informed by the admin staff that when a skill gets closer to its max, it SIGNIFICANTLY slows down in terms of increases. I can buy that, but why then did 2h bludgeoning go up so much faster? My theory is that some skills get checked a LOT more often than others.
For instance: hitall/switch opponents, there is a lag time associated with these, and you can only do them once every other, or every 3 rounds. During this time, with a decent double attack, i get at LEAST 6 attacks with a 1h or 2h weapon. thats at LEAST 6 checks to every 1. Now, if using hitall, this number can EASILY be doubled for the weapon being used, but seems to have no effect on how quickly hitall improves. I would personally like to see the skills like hitall/switch opponent/and others that have a lag associated with them tweaked a bit so it's not so rediculously long to increase them.

When i started practicing hitall it was at 50 i believe. I've been working on it, a few hours a day, for the last month, and it's at 68. Overall i'd guestimate that it was about 130 man hours to get it up that high. Sillyness, imho, utter sillyness! I can only imagine how long and tedious skills like assassinate must be to practice... 1 every 24 minutes? ick.

Just figured i'd put in my .02 and see if anyone else is experiencing this same problem. On a sidenote, in the past i've been told that your prime attribute for the skill affects how fast a skill goes up. My primes for these skills are in the 90's if not 100. Also i've been told in the past that a high wisdom will have some impact on how quickly skills improve. Perhaps this is all just rumor, but if it's not, i've got that angle covered too...
:?: :?:
rylan
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Postby rylan » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:28 pm

Hitall probably just needs to be tweaked to improve a little faster. As you mentioned, come skills are checked a lot, such as weapon ones since you get multiple attacks per round. Even though they might have a lower chance to improve, you're using it a lot more. Same goes for stuff like kick, which also takes a long time to improve because you can only use it once every few rounds. Wierd thing about kick (and possibly true with hitall, dunno) is that I've tried using it against wraithform mobs for a while, and never got an improvement (never landed a kick on a wraithform), but against flesh type mobs it will land and improve.. maybe it only checks for improvement when the skill works?
lorohten
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Postby lorohten » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:54 pm

If the skills is applicable/working whatever it will notch else not, ever notched a bash on a too big mob?
Daz
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Postby Daz » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:07 pm

as a warrior my hitall increased much faster - i made it up to the 80's in a good night's work

so perhaps its a class related issue
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Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:20 pm

One reason for that daz. Your hitall maxes higher than mine, and skill increases take longer as you faster approach your maximum. And Rylan, i have experienced the same thing. However, i have improved kick on a missed kick at a non-wraithform mob i do believe. Just rediculous that i also just increased my 1h misc from 26-95 and got NO increases in hitall. it is still at 68. I must have used it over 1000 times by now. bleh!
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Postby Nokie » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:44 am

So I shadowed Lord Piergeiron around for about 6 hours today and didn't get a single notch in the 'shadow' skill.

Can we either remove the skill alltogether or take a second look to see if it ever notches?

I asked this a year or two ago but since it was so long ago I can't remember the response.

My shadow skill is currently 58.

For fun, I looked through all of my logs.

It's been at 58 since July 17th, 2001 - when I frist trained it.
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Postby Gyrx » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:59 am

Korris's dodge has been stuck at 15..as long as I can remember. I don't have an exact date, but I can tell you he's tanked 5 or so levels on smoke and it never notched.

Same with Xassis, however his is at 14.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:03 am

My double attack has been 59 for I don't know how long. I've been through so much combat it's terrifying yet this skill that gets activated fairly often has never gone to max (60).

And I won't even talk about awareness...
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:48 am

Couple of things that I seem to think about skill increases, they may be true or not, I don't know because I don't know why I think them.

Skill increase is only possible if you fail your skill check, but you would have succeeded if you had higher skill in it.

You can't increase a skill for x ticks after you've increased it.
Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:52 am

Stamm wrote:You can't increase a skill for x ticks after you've increased it.


This part I disagree with. It's been my experience that it'll take what's like foreeeeeeeeever to get the last 2 or 3 notches in something, such as headbutt. You can be stuck at 96 or 97 for what seems like a gajillion headbutts, but then within 4 headbutts you notch twice and you get your final notch 3 minutes later.

I've seen this happen with most warrior skills.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:37 am

*nod* I can't guarantee any of that, nor can I say why I think it's true... it's just stuff I've picked up from somewhere.
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Postby Hyldryn » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:29 pm

Stamm wrote:Skill increase is only possible if you fail your skill check


I disagree with this one. I haven't noticed notching a tanking skill by failing to actually defend, it occurs after a sb, parry, or dodge. Also, kick will never notch unless you actually hit, keep kicking a wraithform to test this.
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Postby Gyrx » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:47 pm

*nod stamm*
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:25 pm

Hyldryn wrote:
Stamm wrote:Skill increase is only possible if you fail your skill check


I disagree with this one. I haven't noticed notching a tanking skill by failing to actually defend, it occurs after a sb, parry, or dodge. Also, kick will never notch unless you actually hit, keep kicking a wraithform to test this.


What I was saying was that when lack of skill is the factor, there's a chance of a notch.
Hyldryn
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Postby Hyldryn » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:43 pm

Gyrx wrote:Korris's dodge has been stuck at 15..as long as I can remember. I don't have an exact date, but I can tell you he's tanked 5 or so levels on smoke and it never notched.

Same with Xassis, however his is at 14.


That could be a problem from the new tanking code. A mob has to hit past your ac first for your skill to go off. If your caster doesn't get hit much if at all (good ac + blur) while tanking smoke, don't expect much dodge practice.
Hyldryn
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Postby Hyldryn » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:49 pm

Stamm wrote:
Hyldryn wrote:
Stamm wrote:Skill increase is only possible if you fail your skill check


I disagree with this one. I haven't noticed notching a tanking skill by failing to actually defend, it occurs after a sb, parry, or dodge. Also, kick will never notch unless you actually hit, keep kicking a wraithform to test this.


What I was saying was that when lack of skill is the factor, there's a chance of a notch.


Hmmm.... so what your saying is if there's a possibility you might fail a skill, you can notch it? I'm not really sure if any skill is unfailable even at 99. So there's always a possibility of failing.

Or if you mean that if you are below your max, there's a chance for a notch... uh...
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:11 pm

What I mean, and I'll say again I don't know why I think this. Maybe I've been told the code (at some point in the past I was in a position where I could ask questions and be given direct accurate answers) or whatever... But the greater the difference between your max cap on the skill (or it might even be the greater the difference between your skill and 99) then the greater the chance you have of notching.
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Postby Yarash » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:46 am

Gyrx wrote:Korris's dodge has been stuck at 15..as long as I can remember. I don't have an exact date, but I can tell you he's tanked 5 or so levels on smoke and it never notched. Same with Xassis, however his is at 14.


I have also had problems notching dodge. Yarash1 has only notched dodge one time, while fighting stuff in ss. I believe this to be related to his 44 agility. Asher, with 97 agil while equipped, has notched dodge six times. I am satisfied with the rate that Asher has notched dodge. However, I was quite frustrated at the rate of notching with Yarash1. Also note that both have levelled all the way to 50.

Name of invoker, agility when equipped, dodge skill, list of dates dodge notched
Yarash1 44 15 11/17/02
Asher 97 18 4/12/03, 4/22/03, 5/2/03, 7/29/03, 8/8/03 (2x in one day)
Yarash2 90 13 8/16/03

The notch dates shown above indicate notches achieved in battle, not practicing at invoker guild.

- Mike
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Postby Gyrx » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:57 pm

Korris's agi is 89 and Xassis's is 100.

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