The RP-Quest sphere, direct hostilities and complaints here.

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Guest

The RP-Quest sphere, direct hostilities and complaints here.

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:05 pm

Just what the title says. The purpose of this thread is to divert all thread-hijacking, Malar-hating, anti-RP-Quest sphere statements and make the other threads less...crapful. Oh yes, praise is always welcome too.
Delmair Aamoren
Sojourner
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Contact:

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:13 pm

First Post! go ME! actually was just going to say how funny D2's statement was in your signature... and umm, i'll have more comments after tonights RP session! Tho as it stands now, it did seem as though the previous quest/campaign was significantly catered to those who were chosen as the ring-bearers...
Caedym
Sojourner
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Houston Texas
Contact:

Postby Caedym » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:19 am

When Todraels ATTACK!!

August 2002, a Todrael attacks the Areas staff:
http://www.sojourn3.org/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ght=#84908

August 2003, a Todrael attacks the Quest/RP staff:
http://www.sojourn3.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11408

Next year, August 2004, Todrael attacks...?
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:51 am

seen rp quests. they take way too long and it just looks like a bunch of long-winded boring talk and players sucking up to gods. the only i enjoyed was when I had to help that one guy find his sheep.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Todrael
Sojourner
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:01 am
Location: MI, USA
Contact:

Postby Todrael » Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:17 am

Caedym, you forgot my thread on Artifacts, or the numerous other times I've attacked the staff here on Sojourn. I suppose I'm not a very happy person. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I wouldn't have the ptime I do if I didn't. Mostly, I like things to improve.

The quest sphere.. well, I just don't see the RP. I've participated in many events, even a couple after Orcus. What I saw is probably about as good as it could get under the conditions. As Malar said, it's hard to RP with 15+ people all trying to get info or speak with you at the same time.

I wanted to take a more active role in the RP, but I was always half a second too late. Quite literally, that's all the time it takes to fall behind in the RP, as 4 new questions are asked and the old one answered. And people being blatantly out of character, both in shouts, actions, and through gsays, really isn't conducive to any kind of enjoyment. So, I kept my mouth shut, and browsed the web instead of participating. My fault? I don't know. I would have liked to join in. I don't know what the solution is, except to slow things down somehow.
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Get Toril Guides and Maps at Todrael's Lair
Get Item Stats at TorilEQ
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Ragorn » Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:04 am

I'm sure the campaign is fun for the 5 or 6 people chosen to be involved. I tried to get into it during the one contact I had with the quest sphere, but I and about 6 other people were summarily ignored so the "quest mob" could talk firmly and solely to Jenera. Roleplaying on the streets of WD with Nilan was infinitely more fun than clambering over 8 other players to try to get the quest god to answer MY question.

Personally I don't think a MUD like sojourn is geared toward a god-run campaign, too many eager people get left out along the way. I hope those picked to be involved have a good time.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:31 am

take a few months off, take a year off.

play a pay to play mmorpg.

then you'll realize how posts like the above make you look like ungrateful jerks.

how can you not realize how lucky you are? you know that probably less than 10% of the total players to everset foot into this game have achieved what you have, todrael. these things are done to benefit you as a player and a person and you are not required to give dime 1 to kris or any of his cohorts/staff.

yes yes yes we all bitch, w hine, cry more noob, give me that, nerf this, i'm so uber i can kiss my own ass. but dont start attacking the staff that does not get to play and enjoy the game the same way you do. they get to play administrator - something that probably appeals to 10% of the worlds population.

i wasnt invited to take part in the rp story, and although that bit is annoy ing as i'm sure i could have done well i simply dont play at the times the rest of you east coasters do. when i get home it's 10pm for you. it looks like it was a blast but a few whiners just gotta make an issue out of everyhing.

when that starts to happen, you need to take a lot of time off. when the petty political bs started to get under my skin on daoc and actually made me grumpy instead of happy to log on, i took three months off. i did that 4 times in the two years ip layed daoc, and a few times here now.

thank you for trying malar! and to hell with the griefers.
Ensis
Sojourner
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Portland, OR 97219
Contact:

Postby Ensis » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:57 am

Teyaha wrote:how can you not realize how lucky you are? you know that probably less than 10% of the total players to everset foot into this game have achieved what you have, todrael. these things are done to benefit you as a player and a person and you are not required to give dime 1 to kris or any of his cohorts/staff.


Maybe I'm missing the point, but how lucky is he/why? Tod probably achieved what he did because he's got more hours than the rest of the mud combined :P

yes yes yes we all bitch, w hine, cry more noob, give me that, nerf this, i'm so uber i can kiss my own ass. but dont start attacking the staff that does not get to play and enjoy the game the same way you do. they get to play administrator - something that probably appeals to 10% of the worlds population.


That selfless staff, someone help us pull the 9 inch nails out. They volunteered. Interestingly enough you never hear about an Imm quitting because they couldn't take the pressure of the bbs. It's a power trip. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Being an imm is the key to the city, it's like the goal beyond 50th for a lot of people. If they don't like the rewards it reaps, maybe they should go to the MMORPG or take the break.

i wasnt invited to take part in the rp story, and although that bit is annoy ing as i'm sure i could have done well i simply dont play at the times the rest of you east coasters do. when i get home it's 10pm for you. it looks like it was a blast but a few whiners just gotta make an issue out of everyhing.


What does it make you then, making an issue about them making an issue out of everything?

thank you for trying malar! and to hell with the griefers.


(golfclap)
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:08 pm

You never hear of Immortals leaving because of the pressure because they don't make a soap opera out of the event.
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:14 pm

8)

The heart of one of these issues is that not everyone's idea of roleplay is the same.

Nilan thinks roleplaying is mass producing stories on the RP bbs and making long winded speeches.

Todrael thinks roleplaying is using lots of long emotes.

I forget who, but this one elf thought roleplaying meant to program zmud to give himself a lisp.

Yayaril thinks roleplaying is being a dick to elves and dwarves, and trying to protect his city from misinthropes.

So when it comes to rewards, we may all roleplay, but only those who roleplay in a fashion that the Quest Sphere deems correct will receive the 'reward'. When I jeered at a dwarf who was about to be swallowed up by a shadow in the ring saga, I got teleported to Jenna's outhouse.


Another problem I see with the whole Roleplay issue is that there is no room to go out of bounds of what the Quest Sphere specifically wants. What would have happened if one of the ring bearers decided to use their ring in a ritual to try and bring back the demons early and possibly make a pact with them? What if, when the time came to use all the rings in the ritual to bring back Orcus, one of the players had decided that maybe this was a bad idea and ran off? Would the players be railroaded into finishing the quest 'as designed'? I know the gods put a lot of work into setting up these quests, and it's a shame to see that work go to waste when players decide to do something different, but as a very active game master myself, I know that you can never trust the players to do what you thought they would. I've seen entire adventures that I've made go right down the drain. My players would have probably abandoned me a long time ago if I had used heavy handed tactics to get them to do the adventure as I had intended it.

This brings up another mini quest I was on: the alchemist was wandering around Waterdeep and asking for help. So I decided to talk to him and he asked me to gather up some green adventurers. I do so and when I return to his shop, he accuses me of stealing a whole mess of platinum from him. He then throws some powder in my face, and echos that I am paralyzed. So I play along and start emoting that my eyes race around and I make muffled noises and such. Then the alchemist says that the chemical he threw on me is poison and I notice my hitpoints slowly going down. He states I have 10 minutes to return the platinum I stole to him, or I'll die.

Well, I didn't steal any platinum from the alchemist, because I am a good law abiding bounty hunter, so after he releases me from the paralysis, I tell him this. He doesn't believe me, so I tell him that Lord Piergeiron will vouch for me, because I've brought in untold numerous criminals. He doesn't believe me. So I tell him that I am a well known and lawful bounty hunter and that many dozens have cursed my name as they were tied to the cutting block to have their head removed, and that the judge will most certainly vouch for my actions. He doesn't believe me. So I quaff a potion of remove poison. He states that his poison is beyond such silly means. So I get a level 50 cleric to try and remove poison me and heal me. It doesn't work. So I disguise myself as a human commoner, go back into the shop and begin asking questions about the rogue he threw poison at and about an antidote. No dice. All the while my hitpoints are ticking lower. So I try to kill the alchemist, thinking he may have the antidote. He is a shopkeeper, no dice. At last, when my hitpoints are at like 20, I have to ask the shopkeeper how much money I stole, because I have no idea. He tells me 1000 platinum. So I give him 1k plat, and he then cures me of this super ultimate poison that cannot be healed. Then later on he gives me the platinum back, saying that he trusts me now. In my RP experience, this is a prime example of game railroading. The only way to accomplish the goal of becoming unpoisoned was to do exactly what the GM wanted you to do. Maybe some more leniency in the future? Afterwards, I talked with the god who ran that 'quest' and he thought I really had stolen his money. His reasoning: Nokie had stolen stuff from him while he was running a quest and apparently because his money was missing from his inventory, he figured I stole it because I was playing a rogue. Blah.


Okay, I'm done with my criticisms of the Quest sphere. Now for a follow up, I'll say that I'm glad there is a quest sphere and that it's far too time intensive to please everyone. So, even though I'm not entirely pleased with every quest I was on, just keep going and trying to run different quests. There were several quests I went on that were pleasing to me, such as rescuing the halfling mother's child from Esroh the hermit. I had fun roleplaying that the only reason I was doing it was to get the ruddy halfling out of my city. Then there was another short quest where upon someone was asking riddles of those in Waterdeep, and it was fun trying to answer them. The FNATs were fun, even if they were just slaughterfests and there really was no roleplaying. That's the sort of thing the gods can run for those who want restrings, but don't roleplay.
Ambar
Sojourner
Posts: 2872
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Our House in Va.
Contact:

Postby Ambar » Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:17 pm

RP ... can be very fun if the right *players* are involved ...

I personally LOVE to RP .. Nilan, Deshana and Lazus are my favorites to RP with .. the whole Nilan/Telina sister/brother RP things made my mudding experience (actually when Nilan claimed Telina as adopted sister that pretty much made my YEAR) more fun while I was in a personal mudding rut (when you ask yourself why you are still sitting at the ftn or at 3W it's time to reconsider ..)

back in the day, RP meant a totally different thing than it does now, and I personally am glad to see the change ... the trend toward RP stories rather than events *cough* are what makes the game fun. and what keeps most of us *here* (yes i have been absent but my feelings havent changed)

the Quest Sphere has a TON of great ideas but they are very limited in what they can do .. I just wonder how many people realize the steps they have to go through to get ONE event into play ... I give you guys props for your hard work (dont let that go to your head:P)

I know I have had some of my best times on the mud during these RP sessions .. and it even brings me closer to the FR theme in that I learn more (hell maybe eventualy I will elarn which God Telina should be following :P) I find I am only limited in my lack of knowledge of the whole FR thing .. having only read a few books (reading Daughter of the Drow atm)

There were also set rules in the RP sessions ... group-says were always out-of-character, says and emotes in-character. You always have your jokers who dont follow the rules, that just comes of a smaller rp p-base and having to fill slots with non-rp'ers .. If perhaps we could police ourselves with a quiet tell by the group leader, then non-RP stuff can be kept out of actions, emotes, and says ...

these are just my opinions, keep in mind in my rl life i am a leader in the US Navy .. i know how to lead people and how to make them follow the rules :P

anyway .. great job you guys, i can really feel your frustrations ... Malar ... i think it would rock to have another HP thingy ... with mobs with oldschool *hunters* names :P imagine the fun :P

love u all ..

-Jen
Salen
Sojourner
Posts: 771
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Salen » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:45 pm

Wow, ended up much longer than I thought. I will edit later, gotta help with 'MudStuff' now.

There are 5 'roleplaying' events I remember being involved with.
No particular order, writing them as I remember them.

1. 800point backstab for a L30 mob

I was returning from GC when a couple of level30 players just north out of WD asked for my help because they were confused by the mobs.
I was basically told it was none of my concern and I should leave well enough alone by the mobs in character.
When I conned the mobs, the were 'No match'. When I 'DetEv' they were evil. During the conversation with them it became clear to me they were lying, so I told the Level 30's this.
The other players decided to get some others and kill the mobs, and true to Salen form, I said I would help them. The start of that fight included these 'No match' mobs suddenly becoming aggro, backstabbing me for over 800 points, and then running off to infultrate MH. When I con them again (ont the road to MH), they have suddenly become 'Lucky punk' mobs, and are killing anyone that is on the road to MH (L52-53 aggro tracking rogues will do that). Only after the fact was anyone told that this was specifically targetted for level 30 and I 'interfered' so they had to up the mobs.
Here is a hint, if you don't want a player involved because they throw stuff out of balance, tell them. Just send a tell 'Hey, this was designed for the level 30's. If you have one and want to participate fine, but we would appreciate if you would keep the power players out. We will be sure to let you know we are doing something for higher levels later on if you are around.'
Anyway, by the end of this quest, we had turned what was a Salen as mentor/helper role into a group of 15 45+ players clearing the road to MH because the mobs were killing off n00bs left and right. Since the whole idea of the drow rogues was low profile, it didn't make any sense.

2. The 'Deshana gets kicked out of Leuth'

In the 10-15 minutes before the crash, nothing more than listening to Deshana defend herself and which ever Admin (I don't divide Gods by sphere, you are all admin) was playing accuse her of stuff happened. While a couple minutes of that was ok, 10+ is silly. Reminded me of Karateka 3, so when it crashed, I didn't bother going back. Maybe I missed something cool and interesting afterward, oh well.

3. Thadrin at the Fountain

Shortly after Thadrin got a ring, the ... spirits, spectres, ghosts, whatever came to WD looking for the ring and killing townsfolk. Not only was the Admin mob talking solely to Thadrin, they refused to make any change to allow people to be involved. It was said, outloud that he -Wasn't doing a damn thing with the ring, he didn't want to RP.- (not exact quote, but close)
That was followed up by something along the lines of -If it's a quest thing, I'm doing it myself because Im getting the reward-
The Admin continued to talk solely with Thadrin even when I asked directly what we could do to get the ghosts to leave the townfolk alone and leave WD.
Shortly thereafter, Yaya was teleported 100's of miles away to the outhouse, Thadrin went off somewhere and, since the only person that could have followed him and might have let me join (Yaya) was forcably removed from the situation, I couldn't participate.
Later on, a few people who had been included said it was something over at ZK. Would have been nice to do, but between a player refusing to include people and an Admin refusing to do anything about it then removing players from it, it wasn't possible for a good number of us.

4. Orcus (Times 2)

Midway through the Good/Evil ass-handing fest, Dornax left, and they needed a cleric. Deshana, (so far the best spokeswoman the Quest Sphere has) asked me if I would help. I told her then that I thought rings was unfair to the numerous people who wanted to be involved, but the only time they were included was when the few chosen people needed someone for a run. Her answer then was 'Maybe that's true. But hopefully things will change after this'. Because I have always said I would help when people needed it, I went. In essence, those of us who didn't have the rings got pulled in to do fights (not just at the end, but all the way through) so the people who got rings could finish up and physically get the restring they were de facto handed months before.

I think the zone was well done, and everything up to the final fight was nicely run, except lag which was uncontrollable. I would have liked an out of character 'Oops' about why we did Orcus 2x, and maybe that's why the God that was playing his mortal said something. If he was 'the messenger' that's cool too.
My concern with this part was then, and is now, that the only people who were rewarded at all here seem to be the ones who were handed rings months before. We all got potions (useful, but not worth what we went through) along with cash (as if there isn't enough in the game now) and prestige( which does nothing, and most likely never will) as an afterthought. You (Malar) explained elsewhere that the type of rewards were not your intention and that it was somewhere higher up that nixed the original plan. I can deal with that too, other than this; does that mean any future quest things are subject to the same actions, turning them into nothing more than FNAT2? Sure, there may be more interaction, but will the rewards be haphazardly tossed around, depending on whether someone outside the Quest Sphere decides they want them given out or not?

5. FNAT

I was on 2-3 FNAT trips. In particular I remember 2. Vampires East of WD when a restring was special loaded because it was 'forgotten' and handed out to Gormal to 'do what you want with it' by whoever was running it.
The other was the test-run of beholders (that somehow I got put in charge of) where we did Glup with 3 (4?) extra mobs in the final room and got jack for it. The Glup/Beholder fights were insanely more difficult, yet nothing special at all was loaded. That was probably my last FNAT, as loosing xp for nothing didn't seem like a good use of time.
The only problem I ever had with FNAT was the rewards were so arbitrary that it wasn't worth dying multiple times just to find out, oops nothing loaded. Death = more xp'ing which I don't like. If I wanna kill numerous mobs and die a lot, I'd rather go to any number of zones where I get something/anything out of it.

I remembered a #6 (Christmas with snowflakes looooong ago)
You all know how that story goes by now.


With the exception of the FNAT, nearly everything I came across Quest Sphere-wise since the 'Rings' thing started, directly involves people being excluded to the benefit of others. You can claim all you want that you aren't biased, but I don't think you look at the fact even though you didn't do it intentionally, you still by your actions, excluded people who wanted to be involved.

Do I have examples from just yesterday that this still is happening? no.
What I do have is a pretty good cross-section of the activities that have gone on over the past year or so, and the tales of multiple other people who had very similar occurences, all of which (to this point) have never been owned up to by anyone in charge as actually happening. We (the players of Sojourn) heard the 'there is going to be no favortism in SJ3' crap during Alpha, but it's here. When you (the Admin) refuse to even acknowledge there was a problem, how can anyone believe you have fixed it? Good God, Malar even half-heartedly defended giving someone their own special quest for an item not even in the game, yet he hopes to have an credibility when it comes to saying there is no bias problem?

However, lets assume this is the first time Admin has heard any of these complaints. I (and I believe the greater We) would like some indication of what has taken place to keep these things from happening in the future. The RP board is a great idea, but it doesn't solve the exclusion of people who want to play.
What specifically are you looking for in RP?
Where do we go if we believe we are being excluded?
Are there going to be more player specific quests?
Will there be criteria for how those specific players are picked, and if so will it be made public?

Beyond that
Will all the quest rewards be built on a point system similar to the zone things?
Are restrung items an option under the rewards system?
Are restring 'tokens' an option?
Are other options, such as removing the outcast flag to Leuth for non-elves possible?

The entire Stamm post on named items was altered because I (sarcasticly, I admit) stated that the only way you get restrings is to know somebody higher up. That was immediately followed up by a couple of posts affirming that belief (players that other than by name I wouldn't know from Adam). If I were the only one who thought this way, I would agree that you should ignore it, but I'm not. You have multiple people, some who don't even play anymore, who were compelled to chime in with their support. That should say something. Maybe you aren't biased, but you also have done nothing to show you aren't the same old Admin that said they weren't biased either.


And finally, cuz I dont know when to leave well enough alone, as for Restring=restring=restring. If you believe this Malar, I'm not sure you really understand what players want.

If you think that you restringing an item and giving it out to someone is the same as you giving a player the ability to come up with thier own string for something they already have, you are sadly mistaken. I would place everything I have on the fact that 80+% of the players would rather create their own string for something they already wear than have you arbitrarily change another item and give it to them. I could be wrong; I didn't take a poll, but I know of at least one player who would rather have
<worn on finger> desert winds held within a crystal band
than
<worn on finger> a band of swirling snowflakes
(no offense Garg, I like the look, but wearing cold stuff just isn't me. I grew up on a warm island after all, and winter sucks.)

If nothing else, there is a power difference between getting a restrung item and getting to restring an item. One way you get more eq, the other way you don't.
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:29 pm

I will address Salen's questions, as best I can from a lousy Sun station login term



However, lets assume this is the first time Admin has heard any of these complaints. I (and I believe the greater We) would like some indication of what has taken place to keep these things from happening in the future. The RP board is a great idea, but it doesn't solve the
exclusion of people who want to play.
What specifically are you looking for in RP?
Where do we go if we believe we are being excluded?
Are there going to be more player specific quests?
Will there be criteria for how those specific players are picked, and if so will it be made public?

Beyond that
Will all the quest rewards be built on a point system similar to the zone things?
Are restrung items an option under the rewards system?
Are restring 'tokens' an option?
Are other options, such as removing the outcast flag to Leuth for non-elves possible?


1) I look for consistency in Roleplay. I can't speak for my other sphere mates, but I at least am most concerned that a character remains consistent. Not to point fingers, but Nilan's marriage is highly unlikely given FR environments. Both he and Elisten developed a story to support that, and as long as they remain consistent to it then there are no problems. In short, it doesn't matter if you are going against the 'grain' of FR, so long as you remain consistent with the purpose of your variance.

2) If you feel you are being excluded for one reason or another, you can contact Auril, Malar or myself. If you are uncomfortable about that, then currently Shar is serving as Co-Ord for the Quest sphere and can hear your concerns and speak with us regarding them.

3) Currently, due to the restructuring of the sphere, we are avoiding player specific quests until the campaign is concluded. Certain NPC's may deal with a particular PC as an initial contact, for instance until recently a wizard would speak with Nilan regarding jobs to be completed, but the quests were never 'Nilan's quests'. When the campaign concludes, we will address the issue of personal player quests again.

4) See previous answer, but there will be a means to request a personal quest I would have to assume. But we haven't discussed that scenario just yet.

5) Quest rewards are already being evaluated on a system. This system is independant of the areas system, in order to better reflect the nebulous quality that is Roleplay. The system is still under review, and we're learning as we go.

6) Restrings are a possible reward option under the RP-Quest sphere system.

7) Restring tokens are similar to restrings; we haven't made the distinction within the system yet. Thank you for pointing out the actual significant difference between a restring and a restring with player choice. :)

8 ) Other player options and tweaks are also a consideration under the new system. Something like allowing a human into Leuth might be too tricky if guards are flagged aggro_nonelf, but we have tried to think of other 'cool' things we could grant.

Again, I have to urge for everybody to have patience with us. Our reward system is built largely upon participation, and we're still working out the scaling. It's coming along slowly, we're trying and learning as we go.

Finally, I assure you that prestige will have a purpose. Scoff at it if you will, but there are plans in place to address prestige.
Auril
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Auril » Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:51 pm

What specifically are you looking for in RP?

Anything I can use. If you want to be insane, sure. If you want to claim to be the brother of the banker, you might end up going to supper with him sometime - but you had better be ready to follow through with it or tell him sorry but you have a prior engagement. One person claimed to be from an out-of-the-way city, so when I had it attacked, he was notified - and if he didn't come out to help, I'd have concluded that he didn't really care about it after all.

Where do we go if we believe we are being excluded?

I second Eilistraee. I'm very rarely visible - kind of hard to see who's roleplaying what if I'm right in full view - but I check my mmail.

Are there going to be more player specific quests?

I will use a person's roleplay to bring them into what's going on, but I don't run a player-specific quest per se. Too much to do, too little time, although when the campaign is finally done that could change.

Will there be criteria for how those specific players are picked, and if so will it be made public?

I will use a person's roleplay. If you're roleplaying where I can see it, it's already public. That doesn't answer the question you brought forth, but it's the best I can do after having to say no - there are not yet any plans for player specific quests.

Will all the quest rewards be built on a point system similar to the zone things?

Eilistraee's answer suffices here.

Are other options, such as removing the outcast flag to Leuth for non-elves possible?

That does sound like an interesting idea, and I will probably consider it. The roleplay would have to be quite extensive to receive such a reward.

Now, for the complaints...

"Do I have examples from just yesterday that this still is happening? no."

There is a good reason why it's not happening like that. When we say that everything has changed, that's because it has changed.

"What I do have is a pretty good cross-section of the activities that have gone on over the past year or so, and the tales of multiple other people who had very similar occurences, all of which (to this point) have never been owned up to by anyone in charge as actually happening."

Two points.

It's a fair cross-section, up until everything changed. Good for you.

I do not drag dirt about what had changed across the boards, to all the mortals, or even to all the gods. Who is in charge now? Shar, who had nothing to do with what had happened until everything changed. The people who had things happen the way they did are either gone, or doing very different things now. All I can say is that I personally didn't like some of what was going on, but it's my sphere, and I will not drag the dirt around.

I will be looking for you, Salen. Make yourself available sometime.
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:03 am

I have some concerns, and some have begun to be addressed, but I'd like to hope that they continue this way. And since Gyrx thinks i'm good at giving guidelines.. here we go with some suggestions.

Some RP guidelines for both staff and players alike:
1) You do not need a zone group to RP. (Normally 1 person/DM can handle up to a 6 person group. You get more then that things get more complicated and easily spin out of control. As such RP events should be more geared towards handling a handful of people at a time. This would also cause for less staff to be involved, which means a lower chance of events being canceled.

2) You do not need to fight mobs to RP. (This ties into the above, but a lot of RP can take place right in the Inn. Remember all those real life D&D sessions?)

3) Do not need to inovlve character deaths to RP.

4) It would help if any mobs that are part of an RP event to have their aggro flags turned off, because this KILLS all possible RP with those two individuals. Example: If I walk in to talk to a dragon as a drow elf, even a gold dragon (which is a good and wise creature), it's not going to attack me in less then .5 seconds. "Ack Drow! Kill it!" (as if a dragon is gonna fear little me.)

5) It is ok to talk to the players in an OOC fashion if you need them to slow down in their responses. "Somone says, 'Hey guys slow down, I can't keep up with all the spam. One at a time plz. Organize who is talking and when plz."

6) Players should organize their RP responses in gsay with eachother so as not to spam the staff all at once and allow for more creative and indepth responses.

7) There is no rule that states players have to do a zone to RP, or even leave the room they are currently in. (Mucho thanks for the EXTREMELY fun RP conversation I had with the DK guard the other week! :D )
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:40 am

Our sessions are designed with certain objectives in mind. Some involve no zoning, others still involve the option of zoning, others still require zoning. It takes all kinds.

Mobs that are part of an RP event will have the correct aggro flags set. A great big bloody silver dragon who loathes evilraces WILL attack you within .5 seconds, no matter how much you want to talk with it. Sorry if it isn't what you want. When a dark elf assassin asks a grey elf to fool around, and he responds with 'no, you filthy stinking evil creature' she isn't going to offer him seconds. Not what you want? Well, such is life.

What everybody needs to realize is that our quests are dynamic. They change based on what is happening. While it would be nice to see our quests always 'succeed', in some cases it just doesn't happen. Failure is an option, we won't just keep throwing a story at you until you 'get' it.

Everybody also must realize that the NPC's HAVE A CHARACTER AND PERSONALITY! They have likes and dislikes, preferences and hatreds. They WILL act accordingly.

Finally, presuming to issue instructions to the staff just gives us something to chuckle about. A new approach is advised if you'd like your 'guidelines' to be taken seriously. We welcome suggestions and ideas, but unless you have a RP-Quest god I'm unaware of Llaaldara, please consider that there are aspects of running a quest on Sojourn that you are not aware of.

Please keep the suggestions and comments flowing. We'd like to clear up misunderstandings about what has happened in the past, and try to answer your concerns as best we are able.
Llaaldara
Sojourner
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Dobluth Kyor

Postby Llaaldara » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:15 am

You know what? I wasn't attacking you. I WAS giving heartfelt advice and suggestions like you asked for. I wasn't TELLING you how to do your job. I said here are some suggestions, and you just blasted me for it. Telling me I had no business doing so because I don't have an RP-Quest god that you know of.

Eilistraee wrote:Mobs that are part of an RP event will have the correct aggro flags set. A great big bloody silver dragon who loathes evilraces WILL attack you within .5 seconds, no matter how much you want to talk with it.


See next quote.

Eilistraee wrote:Everybody also must realize that the NPC's HAVE A CHARACTER AND PERSONALITY! They have likes and dislikes, preferences and hatreds. They WILL act accordingly.


There is no thought process in .5 seconds. There is no personality in .5 seconds. There is no RP in a .5 second reaction. I have never, in my whole life, not ever, been in an RP session where I walked in on a mob and the DM said before I could do anything "It HAS attacked you , you just took <insert number here> points of damage."

Eilistraee wrote:What everybody needs to realize is that our quests are dynamic. They change based on what is happening. While it would be nice to see our quests always 'succeed', in some cases it just doesn't happen. Failure is an option, we won't just keep throwing a story at you until you 'get' it.


Well judging by your reaction, I suppose you don't know about something that occured. If you were there that week in TF with the dragon, I was gsaying over and over and over how we probably didn't have to kill the dragon or do the zone. I had said repeatedly that the gods were pretty adept people and able to foresee players not being able to do something and would therefor have an alternate route of RP. Yes that was me being the nag and praising the quest staffs ability. Glad to know it went to complete waist. :(


Eilistraee wrote:Finally, presuming to issue instructions to the staff just gives us something to chuckle about. A new approach is advised if you'd like your 'guidelines' to be taken seriously. We welcome suggestions and ideas, but unless you have a RP-Quest god I'm unaware of Llaaldara, please consider that there are aspects of running a quest on Sojourn that you are not aware of.


Who says I've only played Sojourn? Who says I've only been a mortal in my whole mudding career, spanning a decade. Go read the "Who was your first character" thread. A good portion of people already think I'm Mystra because of the things I know. I can't believe this statement. You would have done better by telling me to eat shit and die because I’m not a current Quest-RP god. That hurt. :cry:

Eilistraee wrote:Please keep the suggestions and comments flowing. We'd like to clear up misunderstandings about what has happened in the past, and try to answer your concerns as best we are able.


Why bother? I've been a staunch defender of the Quest-RP staff all over the BBS, and when I SUGGESTED some ideas, you blasted me for it.


Now I can't figure if i'm depressed or pissed off more, but I don't feel like tog'n my RP on any time soon.
Auril
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Auril » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:46 am

Hey, when I saw someone issuing guidelines for how I should run quests, I got defensive too. I'd have rather seen something saying that not all RP will require zone groups, instead of You do not need a zone group to RP.

Too much yelling going on.
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:02 am

Considering the rash of criticism we've weathered, I may have overreacted. I'm sorry. But there was no 'I'd like to see' in your post Llaaldara, instead there was only 'How-To'. How-To and Needs And Requirements are not suggestions, they are instructions.

Here is an example of the first element that we have to cope with in the MUD environment and questing. I have NO ability to force a mob to attack a player it would normally want to attack. None at all. So instead I resort to Aggro flags for mobs that WOULD NOT speak with a player. In an instance with the TF quest; yes I was there as I was running it, the dragon knew there were drow about. She will attack evilraces without provocation simply because they are evilraces. Not every NPC in a quest is meant to be conversed with; indeed had the TF quest gone as it was truly planned the evils would not have even had to deal with the dragon.

There WAS a way to have completed that quest without doing TF. I'll even explain it to you, to everybody since the session is past. Had the contact actually been GIVEN the object that was sent along, he would not have sent you guys out to get his trinket. There were a lot of trinkets in that chest, and not one was given to him. Nor even offered; they were simply pulled out and passed to oneself, which does not constitute an offer. That is a taunt. I am sorry that your efforts went to waste, but assuming that we had no plans to avoid forcing zoning is short-sighted, as you yourself said.

I have already pointed out two instances where being a current RP-Quest god would have prevented some of the misunderstandings you have mentioned. Hence, I still hold that my stand is valid. Time with the mud means very little in these instances; the entire RP-Quest sphere has at least 8 years experience apiece. You have to be there, involved with the planning and knowing the limitations to truly understand.

Again, I'm sorry if I overreacted or misjudged the purpose of your initial post. But we are trying very hard to get this stuff done, and frankly if you aren't in on some of the planning, you cannot know what efforts we go to in order to cover eventualies.
Wargo
Sojourner
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: New York, N.Y., USA
Contact:

Postby Wargo » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:42 am

How come the RP Sphere receives the most criticisms?

How come the RP Sphere has to defend itself so much?

How come the other spheres aren't having the same problems?

Interesting, isn't it?

Obviously, you guys are doing a much better job than everyone else! :wink:

Yssilk
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:56 am

your absolute power analogy is flawed logic, ensis.

if that was true, the gods would still be as ruthless as they were during toril.

even thinking thoughts like this would have your ass banned for all eternity.

they show an amazing amount of restraint. yes, everything they tend to say is rather cynical but if you dont like it play something else. you dont pay them to provide you a service, yet they still provide you the service of connection, content and support.
Todrael
Sojourner
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:01 am
Location: MI, USA
Contact:

Postby Todrael » Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:38 pm

Eilistraee wrote:There WAS a way to have completed that quest without doing TF. I'll even explain it to you, to everybody since the session is past. Had the contact actually been GIVEN the object that was sent along, he would not have sent you guys out to get his trinket. There were a lot of trinkets in that chest, and not one was given to him. Nor even offered; they were simply pulled out and passed to oneself, which does not constitute an offer. That is a taunt. I am sorry that your efforts went to waste, but assuming that we had no plans to avoid forcing zoning is short-sighted, as you yourself said.


Nilan pulled out at least two of the items, and specifically offered them to the mob. The mob then said he had no use for such crappy items. I specifically remember him saying something about the tiara like 'Do I look feminine to you?' /That's/ a taunt. I would also like to point out that Nilan was the only one that was given items to negotiate with (the chest), and that he doesn't type as fast and isn't able to quite read everything that scrolls across his screen. I guess everyone should have been gsaying to hand over the entire chest? After the mob had already said 'no' to two of the items? *shrugs* Different angle of view (Player instead of God), and the problem shifts.
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Get Toril Guides and Maps at Todrael's Lair
Get Item Stats at TorilEQ
Bipple
Sojourner
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Bipple » Sun Aug 17, 2003 8:19 pm

I could probably list of page full of times where quest gods abused their power, gave equip out to their friends as a "reward" or screwed over players just because they were bored. Ultimately this would solve nothing as a lot of the old quest gods are gone and the current ones have been neutered in regards to what they can do and give out for the reason listed above. Why can't you guys just stand up and admit, yeah we've screwed up in the past and this is what were going to do to change it? You ask for criticism and feedback and all you can do is sit there attacking everything people are saying. I see no change in the quest gods behavior in this thread compared to when they where pissing off the whole player base in the past.
Shar
FORGER ADMIN
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Shar » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:20 pm

Wargo wrote:How come the RP Sphere receives the most criticisms?

How come the RP Sphere has to defend itself so much?

How come the other spheres aren't having the same problems?

Interesting, isn't it?

Obviously, you guys are doing a much better job than everyone else! :wink:

Yssilk


It isnt, it dosent, they are, and no, it isnt.

You are looking at a sphere that is BRAND new in its conception. Even though the "sphere" is not-so-new, the changes the rp-q sphere has undergone are extreme enough to be called a brand new sphere.

Lay off. This thread is starting to tick me off.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:01 pm

Teyaha wrote:your absolute power analogy is flawed logic, ensis.

if that was true, the gods would still be as ruthless as they were during toril.

even thinking thoughts like this would have your ass banned for all eternity.

they show an amazing amount of restraint. yes, everything they tend to say is rather cynical but if you dont like it play something else. you dont pay them to provide you a service, yet they still provide you the service of connection, content and support.

you're funny teyaha. do you realize if they acted like toril gods they'd lose their pbase?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Todrael
Sojourner
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:01 am
Location: MI, USA
Contact:

Postby Todrael » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:10 pm

Shar wrote:Lay off. This thread is starting to tick me off.

Original subject and post in thread:
Malar wrote:Post subject: The RP-Quest sphere, direct hostilities and complaints here.

Just what the title says. The purpose of this thread is to divert all thread-hijacking, Malar-hating, anti-RP-Quest sphere statements and make the other threads less...crapful. Oh yes, praise is always welcome too.
-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
Get Toril Guides and Maps at Todrael's Lair
Get Item Stats at TorilEQ
Shar
FORGER ADMIN
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Shar » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:35 pm

Alright let me rephrase.

Claiming the gods play favorites or insulting them is not considered feedback or even complaining. No, I am not going to point fingers at those of you out there doing it. You know who you are. It is something we, as gods, do not take kindly to. The RP-Q sphere was put in place to add an extra flavor to the game, which it does quite nicely. If you have yet to participate, go ahead and try it out. You might like it.

If you want to RP with the RP-Q sphere (which btw, is optional) then do so. If you do not want to, simply dont.

I am going to hijack this thread and turn it into "Constructive feedback and suggestions welcome for the RP-Q sphere". Some of you have quite nice ideas and some of you are just here to complain. Others of you are here with a mix of both (which is fine) but, remember, flaming will be ignored even if it is cloaked in fancy words.

Yes, this is a sensitive issue, yes, this sphere is new and yes, it is still changing. Patience is a virtue (as the saying goes) but so is tact. And I've seem to have lost mine on this issue. Perhaps I've lost it due to repeating it over and over to everyone who asks. There is a *lot* of work that goes into every single thing the rp-q sphere does. Hours upon hours, and in some cases months of work for each session. Each session progresses the plot in some way and each session is recorded for later use. The entire campaign is researched, written, rewritten and hashed out BEFORE any players are "quested" by any of the staff.

Claming we play favorites isnt just insulting, it is flat out wrong. Are there players who are involved more in sessions than others? Of course. Those players are the ones who go out of their way to BE available when RP-Q is planning something. These are the same players who inevitably recieve the most recognition, the most time spent questing, and recieve the rewards (and losses, yes losses) that come with the campaign. These are the players who will adjust their RP to fit the campaign the sphere has been working on for more than a year, which in turn gains them more time and name recognition with the staff. Does the RP-Q staff log on and look for those people then again? Yes. YES! Why? Because usually, those are the only people who WILL be available and ready (with others they have gathered) to be quested. Want to be one of those people? The requirements arent that hard.

1) When the posted time for a session comes, ask around to those people who seem to be connected to it. Try to find out more.

2) When you find out what is going on, see if you can fit yourself into the campaign, not try to change the campaign to suit you.

3) Send and Mmail to the RP-Q staffers that will be running the sessions. If you dont know who to mmail, you can *always* petition to ask.

4) While *trying* to RP with the campaign, it is helpful to not break character. It shows the staff you are serious. If you do break character, dont worry. We all know you arent really your RP irl. We are all human.

5) Enjoy yourself. If you arent enjoying yourself chances are the RP-Q campaign sessions arent for you. Not everyone will have fun.


New name of this thread : "Constructive feedback and suggestions for the RP-Q sphere"
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:08 am

and your reasoning is flawed as well, dalar.

if they were like the original gods the whole fact that racing exists in jot and is allowed would result in weekly bans.

if they were anything like the gods of old, there would not BE a quest sphere.

they work to provide you a place to play, yet all we seem to do is bitch how it's not good enough. it's a wonder that there is not more turnover in their ranks.

do they abuse their power? probably a little. it's hard to be unbiased when you used to be a player. could the quest have been run better? probably. but instead of slamming them, how about being constructive - especially since the rest of the pbase that doesnt live in this game as many of you do would like to one day partake in such quests and you're being punks to the folks that run things will in the long term screw the rest of the pbase that dalar thinks wouldnt even be here if the gods were as they were.

but when the gods were as they were we actually hadmore players. the csr situation on EQ and SWG is a joke but they still have thousands of players - to a game they pay to play. as long as the content remains fun people will put up with a particular amount of shit.
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:12 am

oh and as to my suggestions...

1) the quests need to be open to everyone, even if they cant 'ye' and 'thou' all that well or at the drop of a hat

2) the same people cant be involved in consecutive quests. that will lead to an outside appearance of favoritism or elitism

3) the only possible quest rewards should be xp and restrings of gear they already have, not new gear with unique stats. restrings of gear already in the game but that does not require a jot invasion crew to acquire would also be decent rewards based on the quest difficulty.

4) one long quest that takes a whole weekend is not viable. multiple tiny quests that take nolonger than three hours total to complete start to finish is more feasible as i'm not young and irresponsible (mostly) as i used to be and sitting at my computer for two days straight playing a game is obscene. perhaps tiny quests that are part of the big quest.

my suggestions.
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:17 am

Teyaha wrote:oh and as to my suggestions...

1) the quests need to be open to everyone, even if they cant 'ye' and 'thou' all that well or at the drop of a hat

2) the same people cant be involved in consecutive quests. that will lead to an outside appearance of favoritism or elitism

3) the only possible quest rewards should be xp and restrings of gear they already have, not new gear with unique stats. restrings of gear already in the game but that does not require a jot invasion crew to acquire would also be decent rewards based on the quest difficulty.

4) one long quest that takes a whole weekend is not viable. multiple tiny quests that take nolonger than three hours total to complete start to finish is more feasible as i'm not young and irresponsible (mostly) as i used to be and sitting at my computer for two days straight playing a game is obscene. perhaps tiny quests that are part of the big quest.

my suggestions.


1) They are :)

2) To deny somebody participation in a quest because they were on the prior one is just as unfair. Quests are open to everyone, and those who make it to consequtive sessions deserve the opportunity.

3) Quest rewards are governed under a system we've developed and are testing.

4) Quests in general are much different and shorter than they had been before. I aim for 2 hours, though I had one 5 hour one that involved doing Crypts and a new zonelet I wrote which took a long time.
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:24 am

except that will once again alienate more players.

i'm on the west coast, and as i have observed very few players are on the west coast now and i dont think any current immortals are at all.

so when you start that quest at 5pm your time, i'm still at work. so the same east coast/central players will be able to participate, the few west coasters/aussies/brits left out.

one of the big issues that dividesplayers in this game is the view and opinion of what are perceived to be elitest players - those that not only are good at what they do, but decide to not participate with the rest of the community. letting the same player on every quest would just propagate that more than the fact that it's an eq based mud already does. maybe dont deny, but if you see the same player getting a rather large number of these rewards compared with the rest of the player base, then you as the person running these things should make a decision to ask that player to take a break to give the others a chance to be involved.

i think playing these other mmorpg's, dealing with guilds and their politics there has helped me develop a perspective i've never had in my 8 years in this game. when you are dealing with 4-600 people instaed of 30-40 the rules change.
Eilistraee
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Eilistraee » Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:18 am

Quest times are posted on the bbs in advance. The last 3 or 4 evilrace focused quests have ocurred at 11pm EST; well within the playing window for the west coasters.

I understand the concern, but we already divide the quests up between evilrace and goodrace. If we were to further limit some players from participating because they were in the last quest for their 'side', we wouldn't have a lot of the few participants we already get.
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:35 am

Shar wrote: Are there players who are involved more in sessions than others? Of course. Those players are the ones who go out of their way to BE available when RP-Q is planning something. These are the same players who inevitably recieve the most recognition, the most time spent questing, and recieve the rewards (and losses, yes losses) that come with the campaign. These are the players who will adjust their RP to fit the campaign the sphere has been working on for more than a year, which in turn gains them more time and name recognition with the staff. Does the RP-Q staff log on and look for those people then again? Yes. YES! Why? Because usually, those are the only people who WILL be available and ready (with others they have gathered) to be quested. Want to be one of those people? The requirements arent that hard.


Perhaps this is the heart of the misconception that the gods are playing 'favorites'? Perhaps, instead of looking for the same players over and over again, the gods should try new players and players who haven't been in the RP quests as much, and then, if that fails, fall back upon the 'regulars'?
Shar
FORGER ADMIN
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Shar » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:07 am

Yayaril wrote :

Perhaps this is the heart of the misconception that the gods are playing 'favorites'? Perhaps, instead of looking for the same players over and over again, the gods should try new players and players who haven't been in the RP quests as much, and then, if that fails, fall back upon the 'regulars'?

The problem with this is, that makes MORE work for the rp-q sphere. They do what they can to promote RP and find new people. They each run individual smaaaaall sessions trying to find intrest. The people who pick up on the RP are brought in, those who ignore it for other things arent.

The *main* reason there arent more of players involved is the misconception that gods only take along excellent RP'ers. This couldnt be farther from the truth. Part of the RP-Q sphere goal is to enable RP even on the small-single player level. Each person who has RP toggled on is looked at for RP and in turn is (eventually) "tested" for intrest. Should we straight out ask players with RP on if they would be interested? That was discussed and dismissed. The rp-q sphere strives very hard (and when I say very hard, I mean *very* hard) to make sure each person with RP toggled on -for more than a few minutes/hours at a time- long enough to BE seen, is looked at.

This takes a lot of time. There are several players with RP toggled on who choose not to RP for whatever reason. Do we still include players who *dont* rp into the campaign? Yes, but it isnt the goal of the RP-Q sphere to convert non-rp'ers into RPing constantly. If you want to join in the rp session just by staying quiet to flesh out your own roleplay or even to get a feel for whats going on, feel free. The rp-q sphere however, will not put up with certain comments or negative reaction to the sessions being run durring a session. Should that happen, the person doing that will be asked to leave.

Anyways... so much more to be said about this, but really, just get involved to the point you can and if you like it, hang around. :) You'll be noticed. *every* player involved in an RP-Q session is noticed. That much I promise.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:57 am

Teyaha wrote:i'm on the west coast, and as i have observed very few players are on the west coast now and i dont think any current immortals are at all.


roflmao. I'm arguing with a guy who doesn't even know anything about the playerbase. I can name 10 players off the top of my head in our time zone.

Why do I bitch? Because once upon a time I use to give feedback. Nothing happened for long ass time. It made perfect sense. Why do I say that? Because LFG and assoc chat are in. I've had other good ideas but they were dismissed. The gods I respect give respect back to me. Don't believe me? Check out Homelands.

Anyways, you said my logic is wrong and you had no counter-argument. I said if they acted like toril gods they would have no pbase.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Tasan
Sojourner
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Fridley, Mn USA
Contact:

Postby Tasan » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:14 am

I'll make this brief.

I tried to be a part of as many of the RP things I could. I didn't go out of my way to stand out in the crowd, and mostly just went along with things. When the campaign started, I was one of the FEW people who followed Thadrin to TF. I was there when the first vestiges of the campaign were made clear to the players.

Now stemming from this, I believe I had 2 seperate solo encounters with a "voice". These encounters were more vague and confusing than anything. What was said isn't important, since they were 5 minutes or less and involved the campaign as a whole, but the feeling of confusion is quite significant. How can you expect people to want to be a part of something when you forget about people that aren't there 100% of the time, or leave them hanging? I can't say it was the first time it had happened... Malar left 8 of us to run around for no reason one night, I'm fairly sure Nokie has a log of it. Needless to say, I perservered and tried to continue to be involved.

What I'm getting at is: Why should any of the outside cast of characters who are there for some of the things and not others, be completely ignored outside of setup RP sessions? I was under the assumption that RP immortals had very little in the way of admin duties, and could spend a lot of time just popping around and RP'ing small bits with people. If that's not the case, then why devote an entire sphere to RP? Just so you can all be there when Orcus takes out a city?

Anyhow... like I said: If you leave players with 1 experience and then never attempt to pick it up again when they gave a favorable response, yes they are going to be confused and probably lose their virtuous patience. I didn't ask for any reward other than being included, and even that seemed to be way over the top.

Twinshadow
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'

Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'

Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Auril
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Auril » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:09 pm

"Does the RP-Q staff log on and look for those people then again? Yes. YES!"

I'm sorry to refute you, Shar, but the truth of the matter is that when I can, I go through the list of everyone with RP on (unless they're in a zone), follow them, try to catch their attention, and if they react I run with it. It's been a while since I've had the time, but through that I try to give some hints about what's going on and to learn more about the people who are doing roleplay. Of course, on a good day I get maybe 2 or 3 people who notice, and that makes it harder to put in the time to look, but I still try.

I use the stuff I learn on these mini-things. I try to pass on information, although it won't be a summary of the campaign up until this moment - but it is relevant. It's true not everyone will know what to do with one or two puzzle pieces, and it's rough that not everyone will post saying they have some of the other pieces.

Finally, if I held only to the same few people, that long quest involving Eilistraee's zonelet would never have happened. I don't believe anyone there was a regular, although two have followed others in quest situations before.

If you show up, I will make good use of you. We need more pawns...
Teyaha
Sojourner
Posts: 1085
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Teyaha » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:14 pm

dalar, find me 10 west coast evils. i dont care if you have 10 west coast goodies. teyaha is a drow, remember?
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:57 pm

Teyaha wrote:dalar, find me 10 west coast evils. i dont care if you have 10 west coast goodies. teyaha is a drow, remember?



3 have evils that i'm aware of. since evils treat goodies like dirt (retards) they went back to goodie. At least 4 IMMORTALS are on the west coast. Also, Dartra/Rolart/Duuniz and some of their roommates play too. That should be enough
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Kurtok
Sojourner
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Kurtok » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:10 pm

This is a general take on RP on this mud. Of all the things I hate on this mud, I HATE roleplay on it the most. What I hate most about the roleplay is that if it isn't the "right", "proper", "expected", "traditional" way, then its not acceptable. I hate bullsh!t like that when people try and impose their ideals upon you because you're "wrong" in some way. When I started to delve into role-playing here for the first time with my troll, I thought it would be neat and unique to role-play a troll pirate. Most of all, I could see how I could have lots of FUN with it. I started to role-play that way and I was told by players that a troll doesn't role-play like that. A troll is supposed to just say "Me dumb fuck. Me stupid ass." over and over. That's the "correct" way to role-play a troll. The fun was gone. If that's the way a troll is truly supposed to be role-played, then they wouldn't even have an organization as complex as a town to begin with, much less be even remotely able to figure out how to venture out from it. Stupid. I even wrote up the best damn role-play story for the origin of how my troll got his start in the world for preperation of a level 50 last name (this was back in the day when you had to do that to get a last name). I'll never post it here, but I still keep it because I know its damn good.

The times when I have seen attempts at role-play, it has almost always degenerated into "F you this! and F you that!" It even spills over into the damn BBS. "F you goodie! yea, F you evil!" No thanks. I can go to the grade-school playground and pick a fight if that's what I want. The creative role-play here is astounding!!

I don't play this mud to role-play anymore, although in the beginning I did. I never have RP toggled on and I never will. The only time that I ever have had it on was when you had to have it always on in an association. I did my best to have it toggled off as often as possible back then. It disgusted me everytime I did a who of myself and saw it dangling there at the end of my name. One of the biggests laughs I get here is seeing people with it on. What a joke! Don't get me wrong, I do love to role-play and I have lots of fun with it, but not on this mud. I never role-play here. Wait, I take that back. I do role-play here. It now comes in the form of:

So-and-so tells/says/emotes "blah blah blah troll blah blah F you!"

tell So-and-so "I don't role-play."
ignore So-and-so
tog tell
Auril
Staff Member - Quests
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Auril » Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:02 am

That's too bad, Kurtok. I always thought trolls would be cunning. They did manage to form their own society, unlike squirrels; and while they don't seem to do a lot in the way of higher math and physics, they're quick, capable of using many tools, etc.

Ogres have a city too, even if there are apparently smarter rocks out there. :P They've got to have something special - loyalty? Fierce devotion to one another's well-being? I don't know, maybe someone else can make some suggestions.

There's got to be more. I don't listen to most of those who tell me how to roleplay, nor do I ignore those who don't fit a mold. Molds are boring, unless they're on a petri dish making fruiting bodies and enzymes. :P
Valke
Sojourner
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 6:01 am
Location: SD

Postby Valke » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:18 am

I have had my RP togged on all the time. Not once have I received any messages or voices. I have participated in several events, nothing was awarded cept for a loss of Exp and time, and what was gonna be awarded never was. Even quest, I took that as a form of RP but was let down when I find they are broken, or so vague that you would need to be a god to figure them out. I have even spoke with gods, asking, begging them for something to do when I was bored outa my mind, and the pbase for the evils were me and someone else. I have written stories for RP, speaking of missions that a certain character has been on, I even have a 50 warrior with his own personal title! Still nothing from the RP side of things. Now someone tell me how to look at my RP expereince in a positive way! I usually stay quiet in groups, watch the two people talk back and forth, I try to gather what is goin on but cant seem to put the pieces togather. I will continue to leave my RP on in hopes that maybe sometime I will be included in the story, not just asked by the group leader for my help with a fight. All in all, ima bit burned out on the whole RP thing, I see you people try to create a good exp for everyone but its not working. Whats wrong with just coming down as your own godly self and hanging out with a player? aiding him or her in something interesting? Maybe quests that involve one person rather than a whole group, seems to me people are tired of wasting time on such things, and with the time you gods are spending on this quest stuff, maybe another solution would be a good idea.

I usually log on now and play by myself, as I have done many times in the past. My ptime as of lately is quite low as to what it usually is. But school time is nearing, and my break from the mud will be over.
Mitharx
Sojourner
Posts: 475
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:01 am
Location: St. Louis, MO, 63129

Postby Mitharx » Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:16 am

Sorry to hear that Kurtok. There are several people who have unique perspectives on the way they play their characters. Lichs with trends towards humanity. Lichs who were big fat grandma necros, well-spoken dwarfs who don't drink all that much. Those are just the few that come to mind. You don't have to play it a certain way. Whoever told you that was just close minded. A troll pirate is a cool idea.

However, if you're completely turned off to the idea of RP due to your past experiences: You will be missed, but the RP goes on.
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:25 pm

[quote="Mitharx"]Lichs who were big fat grandma necros [quote]

Ythera did lose quite some weight when she went undead..
digov
Sojourner
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:01 am

Postby digov » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:13 am

Wow, a couple of things here.

First and foremost, I'll say that I've never really been much involved in questing/roleplaying on sojourn3. I've had a few chances and was involved once with a mini-quest that was going on, though because of time issues on my side I had to drop out. I tend to zone alot, which doesn't lead itself to a ton of roleplaying.

That said, I do have a ton of experience on games that are strictly rp, no leveling, no experience, no equipment sort of games. (MUX and MUSH as opposed to mud). So, I tend to think of myself as pretty knowledgable about such things. You're certainly welcome to disagree thats why this is a discussion board.

However, that said, what I've read in this threat is quite a bit of disrespect and anger that is perhaps misguided. Let me explain why. If someone new comes into your work place and tells you how to do your job and then proceeds to tell you that you're wrong when you tell them you have a different way of doing it after you explain to them a bit of your reasoning, you're likely to get pissed off. If you claim otherwise, I tend to think you're insulting the intelligence of your peers in this forum.

The same very much so applies here.

Its fine to dislike things and its fine to suggest things in a constructive manner but use some tact and common sense. Several of the people getting very upset in this thread are the same folks that snap when they're leading a zone that they know cold and other people tell them how they should be doing things. Think about that from someone elses perspective before you write your next flame or decide to piss on the hard work that folks have put into bringing roleplaying to sojourn in the first place.

Alright, one last thing before I jump down off my soap box. I've seen quite a few very good suggestions for ways roleplaying could be made more user-friendly for everyone that wants to be involved but most of them have been so embedded in mudslinging and flaming that I doubt its very likely that the actual content is going to be pulled out and implemented or even considered. Again, see my starting point, are you very likely to listen to the suggestions of someone who basically just told you. "You fing suck at your job, no I don't know how you could do it better, but you really suck." Doubful :)

My recommendation: Just like your mother told you as a kid, think before you speak.
Deshana
Sojourner
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon May 06, 2002 5:01 am
Location: BC
Contact:

Postby Deshana » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:24 am

Salen:

Re trial and outcasting. If you think that was something i ever wanted or asked for think again. I replied to an accusation with another story to avoid it all together. the entire mess was so unpleasent to me that i nearly deleted when kia set me to VT. I didn't roleplay for 3 months. I didn't write for 6, and basically chugged through the campaign because i didn't want to see a good idea die.

Spokeswoman for the gods? hah. All I've ever done is pay attention to what is happening around me. I've been pointedly excluding from goodies questing for some time, but i keep myself up to date, and most of the "tales" I spin have relavence, but nothing is driven by anything but m own observations.

The staff tried something that didn't work all that well. Now they're going in different directions, trying new things.
I say let them see what they can pull off, and if they need a half mad druid, well no one else has use for me.


Desh
Tanji Smanji
Sojourner
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:42 am

I gave up on the idea of RP here. It's implemented bad and very inconsistently. I've been ignored by quest mobs that only respond to that one 'popular' person in my group. Hell, I've been ignored when I was leading the group. The leader of my group has been ignored when tryin to halt an RP quest (hey, lets have an RP session during hour 5 of an avernus run! Good idea!). I've had mobs popped on my group to kill/stop us from winning an fnat race. I've been a test dummy for mobs during a so-called 'mid lvl fnat' and was introduced to the nifty beholder proc. I've seen favoritism and expect to see more. I'm not bitter but I am smart enough to stay far away from RP stuff now, no telling how much exp and time I'll lose for not bein one of the RP crowd.
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:06 am

exactly what tanji said. that and i don't like malar
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:41 pm

8)

But your name rhymes with his, Dalar!
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:20 pm

exactly!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'

Return to “S3 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests