New Auction System

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Burpie
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Postby Burpie » Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:07 am

Man was I tired on the last post! The Cullen sales are kinda mind numbing. Moss earring 1k. Forgot what other retarded thing was 10k. Pretty dumb.
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Postby Eilorn » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:23 am

Salen wrote:Finally, make anything less than 1 month read <1m on the board, the last 14 hours are masked, so it's difficult to time when the auction will run out. It guards against people staying low and bidding last second for a bargain, but lets people know the end is close.


And others disapproving of the sniping... welcome to the real world... Happens all the time on ebay... I would venture to guess that 99%+ of the non "Buy It Now" items are won on bids in the last 30 seconds.

If you want an item, figure out what the top dollar you're willing to pay for it, then bid it up to that amount. Anyone paying more than that is welcome to it, whether it be 10m or 10s before the end of the auction. The rule of auctions is: "There's another one coming up shortly for bid."

I think things will settle out after a while, we've only been at this a week or so.

Several things I'd like to see:
auc list won Eilorn
to show me what I've won

and
auc list -50p
to show me what items are available under 50p.

Eilorn.
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Postby Jorus » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:09 am

I think having auction time pushed out by a few minutes when a last-minute bid comes in is a good idea.

However, I can also see how some wouldn't like it.

I think a happy medium would be to allow the SELLER to decide whether they would like this feature on any of their auctions (and possibly what the time, in mud hours/days on it is).

Think of it as a n-minute "going once, going twice, sold!" event (heck, the auctioneer could even do going once etc on the auction channel for items with last-minute bids). This makes it possible for a somewhat more "live" auction experience in the last minutes (as opposed to just whoever spams it in before anyone else can respond).

Also, one more auc list enhancement I think would be cool:
viewing by item number (auc list 37, or auc list 220444234322)

Regards,
Jorus
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kool addition :)

Postby Zoldren » Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:40 pm

MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
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Postby Nokie » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:38 pm

I just finished the code, so It's time for the big announcement!

-Tired of losing auctions to losers who sit around the auction-house all day long?
-Want to get that holy flamberge for really cheap?

Well for only $19.95/month NokieBot has a new plugin: the Sojourn Auction Sniper. That's right! Pay me and I'll snipe those auctions for your coveted items.

Make your fellow players tremble in fear at the mighty sniping script!
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Postby thanuk » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:48 pm

Nokie wrote:I just finished the code, so It's time for the big announcement!

-Tired of losing auctions to losers who sit around the auction-house all day long?
-Want to get that holy flamberge for really cheap?

Well for only $19.95/month NokieBot has a new plugin: the Sojourn Auction Sniper. That's right! Pay me and I'll snipe those auctions for your coveted items.

Make your fellow players tremble in fear at the mighty sniping script!


For $18.95 I'll go get you whatever item you were bidding on. And sell it to you for platinum of course, because buying mud eq for rl money isn't legal:)
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Postby Tasan » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:09 pm

Salen wrote:No junk would mean

a slender black steel dagger 10000 1000 No Bid Yet 59 m OPEN
a tiny moss earring 1000 100 No Bid Yet 12 d OPEN

plus the slender longsword
the elven longsword
very dead rat


This is nothing more than cluttering of the board. I would hope someone upstairs would have a freindly talk with people who do this.


Ahem. One man's junk is another man's treasure. In all honesty, 90% of what's on the board is "junk" to level 50 players, but the auction isn't meant for only them. Some people wanted to have fun and list something stupid, so what? We don't need Nazi's for everything on the mud just because it's costing you a fraction of a second.

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Postby Tasan » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:16 pm

Llaaldara wrote:Not everyone has time to sit around the auction room. With no reset timer, people don't even have time to run back and outbid someone who just outbid them. In cases such as this, which differ then some of my experiences - tho not all - the bids remain low. The profit small.

Point still stands.


Only people that aren't willing to pay a premium for items are going to experience a problem with sniping. If you really wanted an item and only had a certain amount of plat, there are going to be people who have thousands more that they couldn't care less about and outbid you anyhow. I fail to see how this affects that any more than making the auction take longer to finish.

I don't personally snipe or whatever, and if I get sniped, who cares? Every item on the board I could get by my own means anyhow, why should I get special priviledge because I was lazy and put a bid on something and got outbid?

I just watched the price of an item jump 2k btw in the final seconds, so don't talk to me about lower returns on items. People will always pay what they think something is worth to them, and that is all an auction should be based on.

Twinshadow
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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:10 pm

628) 410023040 a wooden earring 10 1 No Bid Yet 34 d OPEN Aryin

628 items on the list??? That's getting a little silly. A lot of the items are N/A, and a lot of the items are repeats. Maybe this will be pared down over time, or maybe it will get even worse, who knows yet. Perhaps N/A items could be culled from the main list? What about limiting players to a certain number of items on auction at any one time? I realize that wouldn't stop people from pulling out alts to put stuff up for auction, but having a list of over a thousand items up for auction is going to be a pain in the butt to navigate.
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reboots

Postby irta » Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:07 pm

If the mud reboots, giving auctions an additional day isn't go to hurt and it might mean quite a bit of additional money to the sellers (and thereby making people more willing to sell things).
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:15 am

Wow Zoldren that was pretty much right on target, I probably seen the post long ago, but sure didn't remember it.
At least not consiously.
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Postby Yarash » Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:25 am

Two words: Direct deposit

It does this when you are outbid, how about for sellers?

- Mike
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Postby Hyldryn » Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:03 pm

It would be nice to be able to list multiple parameters, like:

auction list head -1d

I think it would be nice to code in proxy bidding ala eBay. It would help with sniping, a little bit. Here's a cut and paste:

When you place a bid, you enter the maximum amount you'd be willing to pay for the item. Your maximum amount is kept confidential from other bidders and the seller. The eBay system places bids on your behalf, using only as much of your bid as is necessary to maintain your high bid position, or to meet the reserve price. The system will bid up to your maximum amount on your behalf.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:21 pm

BALEETED.
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Postby Lilithelle » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:08 pm

I'm sorry some of us have better things to do with our time then stand around in the auction hall just to make sure we're not outbid by snippers. And I'd really rather not bid alot more than what might be necessary just because there might be a snip bidder. Just because it happens in the real world doesn't mean it should happen. This is a game its supposed to be fun, and i'd like to be playing rather than hanging around the auction hall most of the time. There are also players with limited time where this is impossible, I think the time left should be reset to one or two real life days when a bid comes in. If people are getting impatient they can up their bid alot so they don't have to wait forever for counter bids, and they pay for that priveldge, but the rest of us don't have to pay much just so we can mud and leave the auction hall. And I also don't think its fair when these bid snippers are using bots to do it so they don't even have to use up their own time, should be illegal just like botting anywhere else in the game. If sellers are concerned that people will keep bidding on the item in the last few minutes of the auction so they keep having to wait and wait for the item to be sold they can set the minimum price and bid increment such that if things are delayed at least it'll mean a healthy profit for them.
Lil
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Postby Lilithelle » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:30 pm

How about the person selling an item would be charged the commision upfront based on the initial offering price, the remained would be deducted after sale. or perhaps a mandatory 1% of starting price fee in addition to commision. Hopefully that would eliminate the stupidly priced worthless items being put up for sale.

I don't think we want to keep junk from being sold period as one persons treasure is anothers trash, once the auctioneer goes into wd it could be a boon for newbies who lack the means to zone or the knowledge to get their own items. Perhaps we could just add an optional parameter to auction list to allow us to filter out lesser valued items.
Lil
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:00 am

Auction: Mynazzaraxxsyn just canceled the sell of item 666 a typo.

Should be sale.
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:13 am

Good points Lili, and my debate with Todrael made me think of some other possibilities.

What if people who are selling items, set the initial bid to half of what they wanted to sell it for, and then the increment to the same amount or close. So if someone bidsnipes at the end, they wind up paying a huge amount because the inc is so high? Or some variations there of?

For example. You want to sell ogrehides, and lotta people want them. You want them for atleast 5k. So you start bid at 3k and make the inc 2k.

That way if one person bids, you get em for what you wanted them for, and if someone bid snipes at the end, well would you feel bad for making them pay 2k more then what you were gonna pay?

I'm thinking of doing this for some big ticket items I'm about to put on the block.
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Postby Azenilsee » Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:42 am

That's not a half-bad idea. :)
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Postby Jorus » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:12 pm

Ok! A few more suggestions.

1) Some way to list non-wearable items without doing a full list (eg, it won't show using one of "FINGER NECK BODY HEAD LEGS FEET HANDS ARMS SHIELD ABOUT WAIST WRIST WIELD HOLD LIGHT EYES FACE EARRING QUIVER TAIL")

2) A way to filter based on status (I'm sure it's been suggested!). While going through the auction to ID items I'm not familiar with, I find myself wanting to hurt the auctioneer when he tells me that interesting closed item I want to ID can't be ID'd!

3) Per 2, a way to sort based on status (I guess just a repeat of my previous suggestion of sorting commands)

4) auc list nnn to view a single item, by number. Accepting ranges of numbers would be nice as well. auc list -20 auc list 20-50 etc (same goes for ranges in -5m +5d etc.. something like 5m-5d or auc list 5d-5m)

Love this code!

Regards,
Jorus
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Postby Hyldryn » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:32 pm

Lilithelle wrote:How about the person selling an item would be charged the commision upfront based on the initial offering price, the remained would be deducted after sale. or perhaps a mandatory 1% of starting price fee in addition to commision.


Then you may as well get rid of the starting bid price, because most non-stupid people would start the auction at 1p to avoid getting burned by the starting fee/upfront commision.
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Postby Eilorn » Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:58 am

How about adding some timer/flag to auctioned items, such that either they can't be auctioned again, or, they can't be auctioned for 60 mud months... I don't mind, so much, getting sniped, it's a part of the auction process. What I do mind is getting sniped, for something I could really use, and the sniper turns around and reaucs it at a higher price.

Eilorn.
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Postby Yayaril » Sat Aug 30, 2003 3:48 pm

8)

How about adding 'lots' where you can sell off more than one of the same item, such as potions.
Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:20 am

New list syntax coming soon:
auction list
auction list nobids
auction list +/-Xn (time remain)
auction list +/-Pn (plats)
auction list name (as seller or buyer)
auction list recent:X (most recent X items)
auction list status (Open, Closed, etc; use first letter)
auction list where_worn

You can use more than one option too (but only 1 of each per list)
Example:
auction list azuth finger -500p -10m nobids O recent:50

should be enough to cover all forseeable needs and reduce list spam for you all
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Postby Llaaldara » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:33 pm

Tasan wrote:
Only people that aren't willing to pay a premium for items are going to experience a problem with sniping.


I recently ran into a problem even when I did this. Tanji was selling a veil, and myself and another person had been competing for it. This person finally asked me how high I was willing to go so he could stop waisting his time. I told him 10k at least, and promptly set my bid around that. I came back the next day to find someone different had raised it above that, so I kindly explained my position to this gentleman and asked him politely not to outbid me. As far as I know, he hadn't. What a sweetheart! :D I re-outbid him by getting a loan from a dear friend (for an amount I was going to easily receive once one of my items sold that was already bid on), even when my guild wouldn’t with a bank account of 200k+, and pop'd the price up to 15k for this one item. I had to bid high, I wasn't going to be able to be online when the auction on the item ended. A few folks here kept suggesting to use this tactic. Well I did as these people suggested only to come back to find someone outbid me by a minute amount. I got sniped regardless. Sucks to be me.

Would have been nice tho that once I was outbid I had at least 24 RL hours to up the bid. :wink:

This isn’t Ebay, this is Sojourn. If you want to throw that place in my face, well I’ll throw ubid.com in yours. :P

I was upset at the time to find out that I lost, but I guess deep down I expected it to happen anyway. There are other deeper problems that have been continuing to trouble me with greater intensity recently and causing me to question my desire to continue playing as a whole.

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Postby Todrael » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:42 pm

They bid on the veil by 1k above your bid at least two hours before the end of the auction. 1k is not a "minute" amount, and many people had plenty of time to bid higher on it. I would also point out that you would have had zero chance of ever acquiring this veil had the auction system not been in place, because it would have likely been lost in the spam on the WD sales board, or sitting in this person's bag forever. Just having the chance is a benefit to you, even when you lose, making the mud a better place now that the auction system is in. Please try to realize that.
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:51 pm

With all due respect, I can't really say I think you've been maligned by it.

If you had been online at the time of the auction and in the last 2 seconds somebody had outbid you then yes, I would feel sympathetic.

But what I would do, and I've suggested to guildies, is they get somebody else who can be online at that time, give them a pack of plats and tell them how much you are willing to spend. Then the only way to get outbid is if it's sniped at the last minute.

I've been told that the Gods are aware of this issue and are considering what to do about it, if anything... so hopefully a bid placed will extend the auction for long enough for someone to respond to the bid being placed. Then nobody who takes the time to get serious about an item can lose out, other than it either being too much for them, or deciding that the price is not worth it.
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Postby Salen » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:54 pm

This post unofficially closed as nothing is going to change from now on with Auction. 8(


I've self terminated to avoid being fired for unknowns reasons.

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Postby Llaaldara » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:13 pm

Um Tod, Stamm... I was just pointing out that bidding high doesn't always mean you're going to win. People have said do this thing and you'll be ok. My point is: Not always. *shrug*

I thought the experience was a good one. Let me learn how nice some folks are. :wink:

Now I'm concerned about something you said to me Tod. "I would also point out that you would have had zero chance of ever acquiring this veil had the auction system not been in place, because it would have likely been lost in the spam on the WD sales board, or sitting in this person's bag forever."

Why is that? Why do you feel I would have zero chance of every getting this item normally outside the auction? I'm not exactly sure why you've said this to me or what you're implying? :?

I know which zone the item comes from. I know the layout of the zone. I know the quest mob who does the quest for this item. I also know what the quest items are and where they come from.

Why would you say such a thing? :|


And why did you say this to me? "Just having the chance is a benefit to you, even when you lose, making the mud a better place now that the auction system is in. "

When did I say or every imply the auction code, or auctions in general, were not good for the mud? The only thing about the auction I haven't liked is not having an extension when outbid, which leads to bidsniping. If I didn't already know auctions were good for the mud, why did I try and run one for the benefit of the players just last week?

*scratch*

Is there something you'd like to talk about?

-Sesexe
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:18 pm

I didn't read it that way :P

I think he meant you had zero chance of getting it on a trade other than by this way. I'm sure he'll credit you with the ability to check a certain mob at boot and quest a certain object for it.

And yeah, I was just saying the only real way to make sure you have a good chance of winning.

Anyway, I don't think any of the three of us meant anything nasty, or had a second meaning to our words.
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Postby Lenefir » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:35 pm

Stamm wrote:But what I would do, and I've suggested to guildies, is they get somebody else who can be online at that time, give them a pack of plats and tell them how much you are willing to spend. Then the only way to get outbid is if it's sniped at the last minute.

If so, I really would like if the Action channel text was changed to something like:

Auction: SomePlayer bid 9000 platinum on item 92 a pair of spiked fire giant gauntlets, outbidding SomeOtherPlayer.

Or something like that, so that if you miss it in some spammy battle other people seeing it perhaps might tell you. Or at least makes it possible to put in a trigger warning you in some way.

And I'm really for in some way extend the duration time of the item up for bid, if someone bid on it within the last, say mudhour/mudday/mudweek, or something.
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Postby xa » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:35 pm

I really don't think this whole sniping thing is that big of an issue ya it sux to get outbid I agree with that idea but it's an auction people it happens people bid on stuff the way they wanna bid on stuff we shouldnt put in laws to determine how someone bids on something that's just silly :P
flib
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:12 pm

I agree that sniping is a really unfortunate way to loose a bid on an item. Happens a ton on any auction site i've been to. Don't see why it would be any different here. Ironically this just goes to show you how the people with the most time to play, will have the best gear, the most knowledge, and be the best connected, provided they spend their time wisely. Just another way the system is trying to keep the working man down!
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Postby xa » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:26 pm

someone prolly already said this since I didnt read the other posts but this seemed like a cool simple idea to make the board a lil less confusing and random. set it up based by the price like all the expensive stuff at the top of the list down to cheaper stuff at the bottom of the list that way ppl know where to look for in their price range just a thought :) flib
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:18 pm

xa wrote:someone prolly already said this since I didnt read the other posts but this seemed like a cool simple idea to make the board a lil less confusing and random. set it up based by the price like all the expensive stuff at the top of the list down to cheaper stuff at the bottom of the list that way ppl know where to look for in their price range just a thought :) flib


Azuth posted some new syntaxs for auction about 3 days ago and 5+ posts ago. It looks like the auction list +/-Pn (plats) one does what you're asking for.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Lilithelle » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:01 pm

Here's a thought. Make the increment a manditory % of the starting bid, could be 5 or 10%. They'd pay commission up front on the increment, but when paying commision on the sale the amount they'd already paid would be deducted. So no one would put torches up for bids starting at 10000p, but people would have little incentive of putting items up at 1p. If its good eq you can be fairly sure it'll be bought if priced decently, if its junk make it cheap or don't sell it. Should also cut down on people figuring hey if i can get 10k for this i'll sell it but otherwise i'll keep it, serious sales only.

Now the reason for paying commision on the increment instead of the starting bid is simply to avoid the mud having to keep track of one extra number, I'm not sure if it bothers to remember the starting bid now. That would of course work too.
Lil
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Postby Shuanerst » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:58 pm

Lil, I agree with you there should be some disincentive to listing items that don't sell. however until the ninja problem (extensions (sellor picks length from 0 to 2m say) being my preferred solution) is solved, fees for items regardless of being sold or not is premature.

The only be assured way to get near full value for an item is to list it with a base price that's close to the right price. However that item might not sell, unless someone comes along who is willing to pay the market price (as opposed to a cheapo discount price). Given the incentive to wait until nearer the end to bid (it ties up your cash and the possiblity of being ninja'ed), the sellor faces a conuundrum, list the item at a fair price and risk paying fees if a buyer doesn't come along, or list the item cheap, and risk selling it cheap.

Implement extensions first and then fees based on sale price (where sale price = listed price if it is unsold (or canceled after a short grace period)). Alternatively there could be a (25 p?) fee to list (deducted from the selling fee if the selling fee is more).

Just some thoughts
-Sservis
Todrael group-says 'i keep it in a jar, not much gura could do with it'
Todrael group-says 'i do have plenty of holes though'
Gura group-says 'afk gettin bateries'
Thilindel
Sojourner
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Postby Thilindel » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:54 am

Is there any reason only plat works there? Lesser coinage is useless here as well. No point of 500k gold when you can't use it. 40% conversion is relatively insane. Remove !kill flag on banker or please allow it to use lesser coins when bidding. It uses silver/gold for auction Identify :P
Tanji Smanji
Sojourner
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Postby Tanji Smanji » Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:45 am

Thilindel wrote:Is there any reason only plat works there? Lesser coinage is useless here as well. No point of 500k gold when you can't use it. 40% conversion is relatively insane. Remove !kill flag on banker or please allow it to use lesser coins when bidding. It uses silver/gold for auction Identify :P



I agree, I think it's high time the conversion rate in banks was removed.
Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:02 pm

Azuth wrote:New list syntax coming soon:
auction list
auction list nobids
auction list +/-Xn (time remain)
auction list +/-Pn (plats)
auction list name (as seller or buyer)
auction list recent:X (most recent X items)
auction list status (Open, Closed, etc; use first letter)
auction list where_worn

You can use more than one option too (but only 1 of each per list)
Example:
auction list azuth finger -500p -10m nobids O recent:50

should be enough to cover all forseeable needs and reduce list spam for you all


bump, this new syntax is in now.

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