Hulburg/TTF

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Dalar
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Hulburg/TTF

Postby Dalar » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:22 am

THANKS FOR GIVING US A WARNING FOR FINISHING OUR QUESTS.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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...

Postby Oosh » Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:42 am

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Postby Ambar » Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:48 am

Ooshy needs the phatty luvvin :(
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Postby Dalar » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:05 am

doh oosh sorry man I didn't see your thread.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Colje » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:20 am

*pout*
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:16 am

Read this thread while ya can, too!
- Ragorn
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Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Guest » Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:25 pm

Ragorn wrote:Read this thread while ya can, too!


Ragorn, got anything more constructive than posting these types of responses?

:o
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:28 pm

8)

I think Ragorn was just posting about how life is but a mere ephemeral moment, and that no one man lives forever. So obviously, being mortal, one should make as much use of their time as possible. Ragorns posts are very deep and their inner meanings are often obfuscated beyond layers and layers of double meanings.
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Re: Hulburg/TTF

Postby Shevarash » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:47 pm

Dalar wrote:THANKS FOR GIVING US A WARNING FOR FINISHING OUR QUESTS.


THE FACT THAT ALL THOSE QUESTS WERE POSTED ON A WEBPAGE MONTHS AGO WASN'T ENOUGH WARNING?

:P
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Quest Info

Postby Klandal » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:09 am

Shev, in case you didn't know, quest info is handled MUCH differently than during Sojourn/Toril.

I've never been in a guild, but apparently any quest that has been done by its members is posted to a website for all those to see, as are quests they haven't done but heard of as well.

Personally never seen that website of which you speak, but just stating that practice isn't particularly different than what's already out there.

-Klandal
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Re: Hulburg/TTF

Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:21 am

Shevarash wrote:
Dalar wrote:THANKS FOR GIVING US A WARNING FOR FINISHING OUR QUESTS.


THE FACT THAT ALL THOSE QUESTS WERE POSTED ON A WEBPAGE MONTHS AGO WASN'T ENOUGH WARNING?

:P


I WAS TOLD IMMORTAL STANCE ON THE WEBSITE WAS NOT TO CARE. I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD TAKE U GUYS MONTHS TO TAKE IT DOWN, THEN AGAIN THIS IS SOJ3
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Sylvos » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:33 am

Viewing quest information gathered by guild members is incredibly different than getting the list from the creator of the zone. The full zone document will contain knowledge of linked quests, some of which the players won't have discovered yet.

Face it Dalar, knowing that the zone was going to be pulled even in a week wouldn't have finished those quests of yours any sooner. If you had the stuff and just hadn't felt like finishing it, I feel for you. If you were waiting on getting something that was required, well there would ALWAYS be just that one more step that would make removing these zones inconvenient.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:36 am

Sylvos wrote:Viewing quest information gathered by guild members is incredibly different than getting the list from the creator of the zone. The full zone document will contain knowledge of linked quests, some of which the players won't have discovered yet.

Face it Dalar, knowing that the zone was going to be pulled even in a week wouldn't have finished those quests of yours any sooner. If you had the stuff and just hadn't felt like finishing it, I feel for you. If you were waiting on getting something that was required, well there would ALWAYS be just that one more step that would make removing these zones inconvenient.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


yea, and the funny part is people who did have the quest files still asked me where items were.

actually, everytime i had a zone group capable of doing orbus we decided as a guild to do spob, seelie, or something else. i never asked them once to do hulburg b/c it was a 1-2 hour trip just for an item for me, and i'd rather do something that has more rewards. if i had told my guild i needed orbus done this week i'm sure they would have went in.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Shevarash » Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:09 am

There's lots of other quests to work on. I'm not going to apologize for or make excuses for this decision, it was justified, long overdue, and final.

Enough said.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:22 am

with spob and seelie in game, no there isn't.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gura » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:54 am

Don't see why it makes a difference removing the two zones. If the quest info being posted really pisses you off you have a lot more zones to remove. Leave the zones remove the questfiles if anything.
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Postby Stamm » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:01 am

Well, I didn't have the zone files...

I did have a lot of the zone files for the zones that coexist here with another mud a couple of years ago, lost em in a HD crash or deleted them, dunno where they went. They were legitimately obtained though :P

But I had been going to TTF, religiously every boot looking for a mob to quest an object that I had gathered the items for, at no small expense to my guild. It's sad it had to happen this way, and I was quite annoyed when it happened, but at least now I understand the reasons.

As to what should happen to TTF and Hulburg items? Well, if you want to remove all trace of the items from the game... retstat and restring them as 'an item chit' treasure, nobits, nobits, no effects, and put a quest mob in Baldur's Gate to exchange each item for a reasonable equivalent. That way nobody loses, and the items are removed from the game.
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Postby Kifle » Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:56 am

Stamm wrote:As to what should happen to TTF and Hulburg items? Well, if you want to remove all trace of the items from the game... retstat and restring them as 'an item chit' treasure, nobits, nobits, no effects, and put a quest mob in Baldur's Gate to exchange each item for a reasonable equivalent. That way nobody loses, and the items are removed from the game.


Word!
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:55 pm

How many people know any of the quests that weren't included on Cherzra's file for Hulberg? If you're mentally retracing your steps through that damned file and thinking "There were OTHER quests?" then this ::bird:: is for you.

I'm just going to step out of my normally sweet (HAH!) demeanor right now and tell all you lazy bastards that swarmed Hulberg with Cherzra's precious notes attached to your sweaty little palms to bite my elven ass. I do have to say "thank you" though, since the questing was what I enjoyed doing most on Soj, and having to compete against the hordes of cheaters once that file became available made me realize how much it really wasn't worth it. I miss the game and the people in the game immensely, but the only thing Cherzra really managed to ruin by posting his files for Hulberg was the enjoyment of the few people who truly appreciated the complexity of what he managed to create. Realizing how many hours I'd spent in that zone working out those quests and finally getting somewhere in them, just to have a group member announce that he had the file and would gladly not only give out all the information in it, but do the quests for anybody who wanted... It definitely made me sit up and realize how much I was wasting my time.

Soj has a lot to offer a lot of players with very different styles. Hack and slash, quests, roleplay, chat... there are many things that keep a variety of people playing this game. Some people don't enjoy questing, some people do, and some people prefer it. I enjoyed the amount of work I had to put into learning the quests in the game, and sometimes the rewards were worth it, and in my strange way I was proud of the work that I'd done to learn them. I was nowhere on par with somebody like Corth, but I was trying. If you're not into the questing, then you might never understand why this is an issue, or a big deal, but for all those who enjoy the hack and slash side of the mud, it's about similar to taking all the equipment from the really fun fights and laying it on the ground in a safe room at the beginning of the zone. Once you do that, it's all about who can run there and pick it up first.
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Postby chandigar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:47 pm

You're missed, Ashiwi! Come back and quest! :(
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:51 pm

Shevarash wrote:There's lots of other quests to work on. I'm not going to apologize for or make excuses for this decision, it was justified, long overdue, and final.

Enough said.

Wasn't looking for an apology. The gods removed the quest files when Cherzra's site was known by the gods. Then the quest files were put back in. Now everything was taken out. In the future, can we have a week notice?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Ragorn » Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:17 pm

Erevan wrote:
Ragorn wrote:Read this thread while ya can, too!


Ragorn, got anything more constructive than posting these types of responses?

:o


I should have said "reply to this thread while ya can!" since you locked the other thread already. Oh well, guess I can say what needs to be said here, or start a new thread if this one gets locked before I'm done typing.

So you want something constructive? Being constructive or not on this topic makes no difference whatsoever. The staff is not going to change their mind on this topic, no matter how many novels are written by players. There's no point in being constructive when nothing is going to change. But y'know? I'll take a stab at it anyway.

First off, know that I side with the MUD when it comes to Cherzra. I read his website when he put it up. If I were in his position, I can't say I wouldn't put up my zone files too. But he took it to a personal level, and then a deeply personal level, and that's when I stopped sympathizing with him. So anyway.

I could understand if the staff removed HB/TTF when the whole incident happened. I would have been perfectly sympathetic if Miax had said "this is too much" and ripped the code out with his bare hands. I wouldn't blame him for that. But he didn't, Miax showed great restraint and worked toward the betterment of the mud rather than his own personal feelings. I give him as much credit as I am able for being able to weather the storm while keeping the mud in mind. That's always been one of his greatest skills over the last ten years... (with one exception, mourn soj2 :( )

I could understand if, after Miax stepped down, the remaining forgers let the players know that they were reconsidering Miax's decision. If there had been an announcement post saying "We are taking a hard look at Hulburg and TTF, please enjoy these zones but be aware we may remove them," I think the removal would have gone over much more smoothly all around.

[Are my facts here wrong? Is this not how it happened? Well the theme of my post is "lack of communcation between the staff and the players," so if my facts are wrong, all I can do is shrug and say "case in point."]

But that's not what happened. I only heard about it myself because I woke up and like 4 different players had AIM'd me like "OMG they yanked cherzra's zones" and shit. And now, the players are reacting. Some are flaming back and forth, some are taking sides, etc. People who didn't read Cherzra's site before are asking for the URL for it now. Everyone wants to know what he did that was so bad that Hulburg had to be removed. The decision to handle the situation in this manner is stirring up much more negative sentiment toward the mud than was necessary.

Back to communication. Be honest with your playerbase. Tell them why this decision was made. It wasn't made because the zones are on another mud... apparently they aren't on Homeland, and Duris has had jot, brass, the elemental glades, the planes, labyrinth, and several other coexisting zones since the split. Is it because the zone files were posted? That's a fairly legitimate reason, I can go with that. But the zone files were posted months ago. What's the real reason? Why the long delay? Why the sudden action? Why no warning? BE HONEST WITH YOUR PLAYERS. They want an answer.

Sojourn isn't a game anymore, sojourn is a community. The majority of veteran players on the game are not here to crank their damroll, or quest all their spells, or reach whatever intangible goal they've set for their character. They're here because their friends are here, because Sojourn is a part of their life. It's not like I lurk the boards for all the games I used to play. This game isn't Warcraft. The fact that the quests in Hulburg are now not accessible probably isn't even the primary reason most people are upset. It's the fact that they were removed abruptly. Some people feel betrayed, you can see that by reading the other thread. Most people thought the incident was over, and had gone on with their normal lives. Now it's flared back to life.

So if you want me to say one thing that's constructive, it's "Open the lines of communication with the players." I've said it 15 billion times over 5 years, and it's the reason I (and Cherzra) quit. A lot of this could have been avoided.

I do believe people should "read this while they can." When the Cherzra incident happened, the BBS was eerily quiet about it... the sign of threads being removed. Instead of allowing and fostering communication, the staff has traditionally chosen to clamp down on subjects which may cause strife. I anticipate this thread will eventually be closed or removed as well, but that's the process around here.

And finally, realize that I have nothing to gain or lose from the whole thing. Being retired, I don't speak out of anger because I can't complete my quests. I'm sure the first thing you (anyone) thought when reading my post was "he has no right to say anything if he doesn't play." Fine, that's one response to what I have to say. Another would be to consider that I have absolutely no personal agenda attached to what I say. I care nothing for equipment, and I'll speak my mind openly because I have nothing to delete except a renewable forum account. So that's what I got... consider it or flame me for it.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:43 pm

the other thread was hijacked so Erevan closed it.

well done post Ragorn, I agree with pretty much everything you said.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dlur » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:25 pm

Ragorn wrote: And finally, realize that I have nothing to gain or lose from the whole thing. Being retired, I don't speak out of anger because I can't complete my quests. I'm sure the first thing you (anyone) thought when reading my post was "he has no right to say anything if he doesn't play." Fine, that's one response to what I have to say. Another would be to consider that I have absolutely no personal agenda attached to what I say. I care nothing for equipment, and I'll speak my mind openly because I have nothing to delete except a renewable forum account. So that's what I got... consider it or flame me for it.


Although this is a serious thread, I'd just like to pipe in and say that Ragorn should have something to loose by the loss of these zones. That loss is fugly ansi. As we all know, Ragorn is a purveyor of the Fugly ANSI Arts. And where is there more fugly ansi available than in Hulberg? Think about it.
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Postby chandigar » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:35 pm

Dlur wrote:Although this is a serious thread, I'd just like to pipe in and say that Ragorn should have something to loose by the loss of these zones. That loss is fugly ansi. As we all know, Ragorn is a purveyor of the Fugly ANSI Arts. And where is there more fugly ansi available than in Hulberg? Think about it.


Hrmm... clouds, neverwinter woods... hrm.. there was a 3rd but I forget now.

Basically any zone where more than 50% of the items feature ansi with alternating colors *shudder*
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Postby Guest » Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:35 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Erevan wrote:
Ragorn wrote:Read this thread while ya can, too!


Ragorn, got anything more constructive than posting these types of responses?

:o


I should have said "reply to this thread while ya can!" since you locked the other thread already. Oh well, guess I can say what needs to be said here, or start a new thread if this one gets locked before I'm done typing.

As Dartan has posted, that thread was closed (not deleted) when it degenerated into flaming from Caedym that involved quite a few other people. Could I have closed it earlier? Sure. Did I? No. I generally don't close/move threads until they have gotten way out of hand.

I do believe people should "read this while they can." When the Cherzra incident happened, the BBS was eerily quiet about it... the sign of threads being removed. Instead of allowing and fostering communication, the staff has traditionally chosen to clamp down on subjects which may cause strife. I anticipate this thread will eventually be closed or removed as well, but that's the process around here.


As far as I can remember, we may have deleted/closed/moved some threads by Cherzra where he was directing people to his website, but that was about it. I don't specifically recall anything other than that. We also don't typically close/move/delete all that many threads.

And finally, realize that I have nothing to gain or lose from the whole thing. Being retired, I don't speak out of anger because I can't complete my quests. I'm sure the first thing you (anyone) thought when reading my post was "he has no right to say anything if he doesn't play." Fine, that's one response to what I have to say. Another would be to consider that I have absolutely no personal agenda attached to what I say. I care nothing for equipment, and I'll speak my mind openly because I have nothing to delete except a renewable forum account. So that's what I got... consider it or flame me for it.


I don't have any reason to flame you or anyone else. I don't have a problem with you speaking your mind. My problem is with you making assumptions as to what we as gods will or will not do. Saying things like "get in now before this is deleted!" in my mind is somewhat stupid considering the fact that we really don't delete/close all that many of these posts. Just annoying to see.

In regards to the lines of communication I could give you the same thing that we have repeatedly said. We have lives as gods. We have other priorities than running this free mud for the players. We also tend to discuss things quite a bit and weigh numerous factors. No we don't often have time to give justification for everything we do. Your next argument is "justify the big things!"" or something like that, to which my response would be "what is big?". Liches want to know about their class. Squids about theirs. Rangers, evils, etc. At what point do we draw a line? Unfortunately I doubt there will ever be that "perfect" level of communication as time and other factors are involved. I wasn't involved in the decision to remove the zones, but if I had to guess, the reason it took so long to do it is simply because it WAS a hard decision to make that took a lot of thought. As to anything else, catch me on the mud if you want to chat or anything about my/your point of view.

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Postby Caedym » Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:55 pm

Response to thread and what Ragorn said - I agree. More communication is a good thing. A warning would have been nice. Would have been nice to ask for a warning nicely too instead of screaming for one? Btw, what ever happened to that document Kris was going to draft up about player rights?


As for the hijacking: Well we didn't need two threads about the same thing did we?

You asked what the point was to my posts Dalar. Well I wanted to tell you. I wanted one of the threads to be closed. I also wanted people to be able to vent on some one who really isn't bothered by what you might say to me, so that these hot-headed folks might cool down a little. Additionally, I wanted the constant staff attacks to ease off. So I came up with a plan to do so by putting the fire on me instead.

Everyones been jumping up and down about things on them a lot lately. No I mean it. A LOT more then usual. You can see it's really getting to the staff too. Normally when this reaches a climax, you see the mud go down. I'm also getting bored of the constant spoiled brat whining that's going on. The game is free of charge for you, not them, yet so many people are so eager to snap and scream at them for every little stupid thing that doesn't go their way.

Some folks need to get a grip. For real.

I can't believe how upset folks got before, and so quickly about a game. I was laughing so hard at work people thought I was smoking dope. Yeah, I got off by getting a rise outa a bunch of you.

So when you have problems, forget D2, blame me! Go ahead. Direct all your anger and pent up frustration right at me. Blast away. The harder you flame me, the angier you are, the harder I laugh.

It wasn't the goodies that crashed the mud when you guys were doing Seelie the other night, but you can blame me if it'll help? Oh jeez, how'd I know that if I don't play?

Dude, and Dudette in the case of Ambar, hope the venting helped cool you down. I'm still sitting here with a big cheesy grin on my face.

Caedym Shadowhock
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:10 am

Caedym wrote:As for the hijacking: Well we didn't need two threads about the same thing did we?

You asked what the point was to my posts Dalar. Well I wanted to tell you. I wanted one of the threads to be closed. I also wanted people to be able to vent on some one who really isn't bothered by what you might say to me, so that these hot-headed folks might cool down a little. Additionally, I wanted the constant staff attacks to ease off. So I came up with a plan to do so by putting the fire on me instead.

Everyones been jumping up and down about things on them a lot lately. No I mean it. A LOT more then usual. You can see it's really getting to the staff too. Normally when this reaches a climax, you see the mud go down. I'm also getting bored of the constant spoiled brat whining that's going on. The game is free of charge for you, not them, yet so many people are so eager to snap and scream at them for every little stupid thing that doesn't go their way.

Some folks need to get a grip. For real.

I can't believe how upset folks got before, and so quickly about a game. I was laughing so hard at work people thought I was smoking dope. Yeah, I got off by getting a rise outa a bunch of you.

Caedym Shadowhock


Just go away. If you wanted the thread closed so badly you could have talked to an Administrator. You attacked the evils for reasons in your own mind based on fictional ideas. Then you try to put yourself on a high pedestal saying how you're helping the gods blah blah blha. The last thing they need is having to monitor a bbs where disgruntled people who don't even play anymore flame people who actually know what's going on.

If you even played, you'll realize why people are "jumping up and down" more than usual. Within the past month the MUD has been peaking again. Also, the gods have announced that the eq changes are pretty much done and people see change (Large news gap from 7/22 to 8/16) and people are addressing things. There are other reasons but I don't feel like listing them.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Teyaha » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:15 am

this is all so depressing.

i'm very proud of the folks that run this place for not shutting it down when history repeated itself.

on the other hand i'm very disappointed in the player base's reaction to it.

we have caedym prodding and apparantly looking for a fight any way he can.

we have ragorn vying to be the center of attention on a totally unrelated topic.

we have dalar spouting how uber he is with quests.

how about the fact that the man who's vision has us here today was attacked by a third rate punk wanna-be leader on a personal level outside of the game?

is CC elite? yep. as has been just about every guild and association this game has ever seen. that's just how it is.

the gods help on zones too. we had a funky god run jot invasion a year and a half ago at christmas. i was the only scaler for the evils. i died so much that it took god resses to keep me with scale or we would have had to leave. still waiting on that reward btw kris :P heheheeh (jk)

this topic need to die. the zones needed to go. there will be more content added to the game that will equal or rival these zones as always. hell im still waiting for someone to give the creator of jot/gc some real competition :P there will be eq changes that will most likely have you revisiting zones you hadnt in a long time.

you are all adults. please start thinking rationally before posting. if this game has become your life, please do something else for a w hile because that is very much unhealthy.
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Postby Burpie » Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:02 am

Another unfortunate event is it sure seems to me that most are way too eager to complain than are to state happiness or content to the effort so many gods/etc. must have put into this place. It's free for players, so what the f are so many of the same complainers always nagging for? if you wanna bitch and moan then take it out on mobs. Why would gods, if they are guilty as some of you say, do anything constructive, when same complainers are anything but tactful in requesting(demanding) change and their own perspective considered. I truly enjoy this mud and appreciate all the effort by dugmaren, erevan, shev, etc etc etc..sorry to not name them all, azuth, etc. Obvious effort, and obviously many players are way content, as am I. Thank you staff!
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:15 am

OMG Dlur, I hadn't even thought of that. ::mourn:: I think I got everything out of Hulburg that I need to complete the ultimate ansi explosion though.

As for Teyaha's unsolicited and rude comment concerning my involvement on the thread... well, (rudeness deleted). The ones with [Forger Admin] before their names aren't the only ones who have donated their time and energy toward making the MUD a better place. You can't point to my contribution and see my name on the end of it, because everything I worked on and contributed was summarily ignored and my inquiry emails unanswered. Now that I think about it... gonna post one or two of the things I did, because I think people might be interested. In short, we're all very grateful to the people involved (all of them, not just the gods) for the work they do, but the fact that nobody gets paid does not put the actions of the staff above criticism. You can stop trying to make everyone feel guilty about having such criticisms now.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Burpie » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:06 am

Certainly people have a priviledge to complain here since there's not really any censorship. What is missing is the emphasis of positives. It's always CAPS ..well mostly, anyway, nagging and bitching. regardless, I'm not here to police. I just wanted to point out to those who do try to make this an even greater place that most are content because as social standards have shown, those who are happy, seldom complain(post).
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:43 am

Teyaha wrote:this is all so depressing.

i'm very proud of the folks that run this place for not shutting it down when history repeated itself.

on the other hand i'm very disappointed in the player base's reaction to it.

we have caedym prodding and apparantly looking for a fight any way he can.

we have ragorn vying to be the center of attention on a totally unrelated topic.

we have dalar spouting how uber he is with quests.

how about the fact that the man who's vision has us here today was attacked by a third rate punk wanna-be leader on a personal level outside of the game?

is CC elite? yep. as has been just about every guild and association this game has ever seen. that's just how it is.

the gods help on zones too. we had a funky god run jot invasion a year and a half ago at christmas. i was the only scaler for the evils. i died so much that it took god resses to keep me with scale or we would have had to leave. still waiting on that reward btw kris :P heheheeh (jk)

this topic need to die. the zones needed to go. there will be more content added to the game that will equal or rival these zones as always. hell im still waiting for someone to give the creator of jot/gc some real competition :P there will be eq changes that will most likely have you revisiting zones you hadnt in a long time.

you are all adults. please start thinking rationally before posting. if this game has become your life, please do something else for a w hile because that is very much unhealthy.


and here we have teyaha trying to kiss up to gods with his almighty "i've paid for a MMORPG and seen it all so i'm so much smarter than you" attitude. i only said i knew all the quests. thanks for thinking i'm uber because i don't believe i implied that in these threads.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Teyaha » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:49 am

not smarter, just have a different perspective. you all seem to have forgotten what it was like when sojourn II unexpectedly closed down. the feelings of loss and panic about wtf am i going to do now?

no one disagrees that the handling of the removal of the zones could have been different. an advanced warning at least. but berating them on it and calling the decision stupid is in itself stupid.

and all the complaints about you and your rare camping solidified your reputation for you long ago, as my exploits on the board did mine.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:10 am

Teyaha wrote:not smarter, just have a different perspective. you all seem to have forgotten what it was like when sojourn II unexpectedly closed down. the feelings of loss and panic about wtf am i going to do now?

no one disagrees that the handling of the removal of the zones could have been different. an advanced warning at least. but berating them on it and calling the decision stupid is in itself stupid.

and all the complaints about you and your rare camping solidified your reputation for you long ago, as my exploits on the board did mine.


man you're such a retard. i'm sorry I beat everyone to rares. try using speedpaths k? i've found rares 10 hours into boot. OH NO i'm camping rares!

if you seriously said "oh no what am i going to do" after soj2 closed down then you seriously need a life. i didn't think the decision was stupid. i think it's unfair that the forgers removed the quest files, then put them back in the game until they removed the zones without any warning. 0 communication from players. you want to know something stupid? you posting on this BBS without any knowledge of the MUD. who cares about your EQ perspective? they have the same problems we do.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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:(

Postby Colje » Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:10 am

Cant we just let this topic die?
I cant see any good coming out of this bickering we're doing then hurting others....
:(

/Colje
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:32 am

Teyaha wrote:not smarter, just have a different perspective. you all seem to have forgotten what it was like when sojourn II unexpectedly closed down. the feelings of loss and panic about wtf am i going to do now?


What did I do? I deleted my Sojourn icon in Zmud and telnetted over to durismud.com, where I've mudded fairly consistantly since the Sojourn 2 shutdown. I've maintained contacts with my Sojourn friends through AIM and this board. The feelings of loss lasted about a week, when I realized it was just a game I didn't enjoy all that much for the game itself, and I realized I could keep contact with the part of the game that was best... the community.

And then I paid to play 5 or 6 different MMOGs, am looking for one to play full time now, and am working (for free) as lead designer for a small company producing a MMORTS (massive multiplayer online real-time strategy game.... imagine 500 player warcraft 3).
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:17 pm

dalar, you have yet to respond to anything in this thread without flaming or blasting someone in your very first line.

how can i take anything you say seriously?

i thought about duris, ragorn, but pvp on that level doesnt interest me. it just promotes adolescent behavior. i prefer daoc's pvp system.

after soj II shut down i just lived with it for a few months before i finally broke down and bought EQ. played that till soj III came back and sold off my eq accounts immediately. soj > eq.

and i have plenty of knowledge about the mud after nearly 8 years, dalar.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:00 pm

Teyaha wrote:dalar, you have yet to respond to anything in this thread without flaming or blasting someone in your very first line.

how can i take anything you say seriously?

i thought about duris, ragorn, but pvp on that level doesnt interest me. it just promotes adolescent behavior. i prefer daoc's pvp system.

after soj II shut down i just lived with it for a few months before i finally broke down and bought EQ. played that till soj III came back and sold off my eq accounts immediately. soj > eq.

and i have plenty of knowledge about the mud after nearly 8 years, dalar.


1) look at every post that wasn't responding to yours and i stated facts only.

2) out of 8 years you don't even know 10 people in your own time zone who play
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Shar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:39 pm

This thread has devolved into 2 people arguing. Lets keep it on topic, constructive and flame-free if possible. My head hurts. :)

We read the BBS (every single thread) but the patience of the staff is not inexhaustable. Both sides have some valid points. The staff arent perfect, believe me! Have faith that we take it all in stride though. We learn from our mistakes just like everyone else. Could we have given everyone warning? Yup, but what could have been accomplished or avoided by doing so? I'm just curious as to what kind of expectation from those of you out there (who seem to be highly disturbed by this) is.

It took quite a while to yank those zones because it was being debated for that long. Several of the immortals who play the game daily felt strongly in both ways. Yank it or leave it? Yank it or leave it? It was a hard decision, that's all. God time sucks for gods sometimes, too.

Anyways, it wasn't an appology because I don't think the staff was wrong in this, but I do hope everyone out there who thinks we rush into these types of decisions (or make them out of the blue) can be reminded that virtually *everything* we do is debated.

We work here for you guys cuz we love this game just like you. Anyway, thats all.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:24 pm

Shar wrote:The staff arent perfect, believe me!


The staff isn't perfect, that is. Bad grammer, tsk.
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Postby Stamm » Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:53 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:
Shar wrote:The staff arent perfect, believe me!


The staff isn't perfect, that is. Bad grammer, tsk.


If you were talking about a staff made of wood, then isn't would be the correct word to use. When you are talking about staff, which is plural, aren't is the correct word to use.
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Postby Alomlim » Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:54 pm

The whole mudding gang are behind you, Stamm.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:55 pm

Isn't it refering to one aspect of said staff, and wouldn't that technically make it correct? Being as I have no major in english, I dunno.
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Postby Stamm » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:01 pm

No it wouldn't. And nor do I have a major in English, whatever that is. I just happen to have it as my first language.

Just seems funny when someone is anal enough to point out what would be a small error, and in fact they make a fool of themselves because they are wrong.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:44 pm

::ahem::

It can be used either way, but the connotation changes depending on the use.

Using the singular form and saying, "The staff isn't perfect" implies that the staff is a single functioning unit, to stand or fall as a unit. I believe this is exactly the correct connotation to use. It implies that the whole governing body makes mistakes as a whole, regardless of the status of its members.

Using the plural form and saying, "The staff aren't perfect" imples disjunction, that each staff member is imperfect in his own special way. While this is equally true, I prefer the former statement to the latter :)
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
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Postby Shar » Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:32 am

I'm pretty sure that saying "you are a tool, Arilin" is grammatically correct.

:)

*pet Arilin*
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:36 am

And you'd know!

Takes one to know one. :P
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:36 am

rofl dood.

less than 3% of the current players played when i started. all of the west coasters are gone. two west coasters who live near me - tesi and drabyl...well we think tesi may be dead (no joke there) as he was into some bad shit and then suddenly nowhere to be seen, and drabyl went through the same black listing i did this wipe so he's on daoc perma. we had the biggest guild on igraine for most of the first 8 months that server was up, even owned all 6 relics and..well n/m it's not relevent.

so sorry, all the left coasters i knew are gone from the game, and i havent met any new ones on the evil side this wipe.

it's just driving me nuts how ungrateful some players are lately and how condescending every thread seems to be.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:49 am

Teyaha wrote:rofl dood.

less than 3% of the current players played when i started. all of the west coasters are gone. two west coasters who live near me - tesi and drabyl...well we think tesi may be dead (no joke there) as he was into some bad shit and then suddenly nowhere to be seen, and drabyl went through the same black listing i did this wipe so he's on daoc perma. we had the biggest guild on igraine for most of the first 8 months that server was up, even owned all 6 relics and..well n/m it's not relevent.

so sorry, all the left coasters i knew are gone from the game, and i havent met any new ones on the evil side this wipe.

it's just driving me nuts how ungrateful some players are lately and how condescending every thread seems to be.


You know, totally off subject here, but let me ask you.

Do you think bringing up the fact you were so uber on your server on daoc, means jack to anyone but you? Jesus, i'm sick of hearing about that. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with this thread. My god, go wank on your daoc box, maybe you'll feel better.
Shevarash OOC: 'what can I say, I'm attracted to crazy chicks and really short dudes'

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