Lack of evil tank classes

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mynazzaraxxsyn
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Lack of evil tank classes

Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:37 pm

I've recently started playing an evil cleric and have really started to realize the lack of tanking classes evils have... We have one tank class, warriors. I really think that orcs should be able to be anti-paladins to compensate for this giving us two (goodies have 3).

Fighter
=======
Warrior (both)
Ranger (goodie only)
Paladin (goodie only)
Anti-Paladin (goodie only)
Dire Raider (evil only)
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Postby Caedym » Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:44 pm

Dire Raider = Ranger + Anti-paladin
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Re: Lack of evil tank classes

Postby thanuk » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:00 pm

mynazzaraxxsyn wrote:I've recently started playing an evil cleric and have really started to realize the lack of tanking classes evils have... We have one tank class, warriors. I really think that orcs should be able to be anti-paladins to compensate for this giving us two (goodies have 3).

Fighter
=======
Warrior (both)
Ranger (goodie only)
Paladin (goodie only)
Anti-Paladin (goodie only)
Dire Raider (evil only)


Heh, silly Lavey, tankings for warriors!

Rangers, paladins, and anti-paladins are weak ass tanks these days dude. Paladins and antis are good on their horses, but you can't bring horses anywhere good so its a moot point. Warriors are the best tanks, and trolls are the best warriors. Some people will argue, but they're wrong so ignore them:)
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Postby Disoputlip » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:07 pm

And...

troll warriors compensate for good races.

Evils often have many more warriors on compared relative to the good aligned, simply because the troll with its regeneration actually make beeing a solo warrior possible
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Postby Gura » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:09 pm

cough.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'

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Postby Gyrx » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:46 pm

Disoputlip wrote:simply because the troll with its regeneration actually make beeing a solo warrior possible


Uhm, no. Just no.
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Postby chandigar » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:20 pm

Outta curiosity, how high can you solo as a troll warr? Say... fighting mobs that are equal to or slightly lower than you (ie one notch per kill or so) ... I honestly dont' know.

I know as a bard with mid lvl eq, I could solo to about lvl 38/39... most of the time dualing and singing non-instrument regen song. I figure the troll regen has gotta be in that ballpark?
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Postby Snurgt » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:58 pm

Last wipe I got my troll war to level 41 completely solo, without ever leaving BG.
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Postby Gura » Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:37 pm

you used to be able to solo a troll to 50th without leaving ghore. dunno if its still possible with all the defense changes n stuff.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Teyaha » Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:46 am

i think it boils down to how much downtime you can deal with.

a troll can solo quite a bit with a blinding weaopn, high ac and good hp/hit/dam, but more than likely you'll be sleeping for 10-20 minutes between fights.
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Postby Stamm » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:46 am

Warriors are the main tanks of choice, trolls are the best tanks. What more do you want?
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Postby Vahok » Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:03 am

I think it's fair evils have one less tank class. Trolls, ogres, duergars have some very nice advantages over the good race tanks. Except for the fact they are all ugly as my grandmother naked... :wink:
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:10 am

I'll never forget the time I out-tanked thanuk with my elementalist. Warriors are the gimpest class there is, they only shine when they get every prep in the book. Fun fun...
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Postby Gyrx » Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:17 am

Tanji Smanji wrote:I'll never forget the time I out-tanked thanuk with my elementalist. Warriors are the gimpest class there is, they only shine when they get every prep in the book. Fun fun...


Personally, i think the only thing warriors have is rescue...
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Postby amolol » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:51 am

heh warriors arent the only one with rescue

c 'blink'

heh
i dont know what your problem is, but i bet its hard to pronounce

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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:07 am

[/quote]
Personally, i think the only thing warriors have is rescue...[/quote]


Hitall!
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:07 am

boy, I sure forked up that quote.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:30 pm

Gyrx wrote:Personally, i think the only thing warriors have is rescue...


I been trying to tell you guys that for years now:)
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Burpie » Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:04 pm

I do recall on a different thread almost a year ago Shev said he'd 'look into it' regarding Ogres as tanks. EVERY time I ask an ogre about how well they enjoy the game as 'an ogre' they say it sucks. Considering shieldblock, punch, ..hell most all tanking skills (save rescue, which is agility based I think) are strength based. Therefore, I would only assume ogres should just own. Another logic some contended is that ogres have 'lots' more hps than trolls, etc. Seems to me it's one hp more per level. Considering troll regen, Ogres have no advantages, and plenty of disadvantages, especially since critics can pretty much kill them outright. That's insane. Trolls do have avenues around fire based attacks. Ogres are just not good tanks as it is; makes me curious as to what modifications, if any, were implimented with said 'look into it'. Maybe ogres have hidden positives nobody's noticed? I tried a lowbie Ogre, with 155 hps, some 'perfect match' mob killed him in one hit. That will not happen to a troll. Very frustrating trying as an evil these days. All the Gromikazers and so forth are missing as of late as well?
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Postby Gura » Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:56 am

actually im gonna have to disagree. Ogres make just fine tanks at higher levels. Take a level 50 ogre to a zone dragonscale and displace him and u wont notice much of a difference between him and a troll. Its just harder to level one up without regen. First off ogres have strengths to make up for their weaknesses. They're not bashable by most mobs in the game to start with. Second. they have the highest strength in this game for a pc and i believe its 4 notches higher than a troll and 3 notches higher than duergars. so if their agi sucks a little bit i think its justified. Also they're a con notch higher than trolls and 2 notches higher than duergars. Now just to discuss how tough these ogres are at 50th me and Krolb have an almost epic battle going on between our characters in the arena. For the most part he kicks my ass almost every damn time...don't get me wrong of course it is a close battle but ogres aren't as wuss as you make them out to be They just excel at higher levels. Another benefit to ogres..is because of their insane strength they can almost bash !fail with a 2h weapon provided its somewhat heavy. and they are the only race of warrior who can bash nofail with a wt2 shield. I say ogres are perfectly fine.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Burpie » Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:32 am

The arena is different that npc vs. player. I've especially noticed this with caster vs. caster in arena. To emphasize my point, while in dk I had angered the infamous 'hunter'. A 50th level Ogre saw me getting tracked/stomped, rescued me. He was at awful within 4 rounds. He had to flee and rented to prevent dying. Meanwhile, a 38th level troll (both warrior since I forgot to state) with relatively same eq as ogre attempted to save me as well. The troll solo'd the hunter, who was only at small wounds. Nobody spelled up the troll warrior, save him quaffing an armor potion. 12 levels is a huge difference, and a blatant victory of tank superiority - troll 8) My point was that when Shev says he'd look into it, especially the damage taken by critics, which was not addressed in your reply, there is warrant for further consideration.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:34 am

Well, .02 is that paladins/antis are essentially the same thing, just one is a GOOD align (ie not an EVIL race) and the other is of evil align. The evils DO have an answer to rangers and antis, and as someone stated before, that is the dire raider. With the addition of dire raider, i do see it as on par with the goodie options. Rangers/paladins/antis don't really tank well at all... might as well add shaman to the list, because they're just about as good most of the time it seems. Also, evils have psionics... you want to get into an argument about why goodies should have psi's too?
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Postby Gura » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:14 am

psi = druid
have a nice day
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Rihesesassixiz » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:32 am

Gura wrote:psi = druid
have a nice day


stupid troll 8)
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Postby Gura » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:52 am

how am i stupid? druids are the good version of psis. they have a class we dont have and we have a class they dont have. cept druids arent half broken.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Rihesesassixiz » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:26 am

Gura wrote:how am i stupid? druids are the good version of psis. they have a class we dont have and we have a class they dont have. cept druids arent half broken.


Note the 8)

8)
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Postby Gyrx » Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:24 am

Burpie wrote:Nobody spelled up the troll warrior, save him quaffing an armor potion.


Burpie, Gura said slap dragonscales and displace on the ogre and you won't notice a difference.
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:41 pm

krolb would have killed it in three rounds
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Postby Gura » Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:16 pm

I don't get your point Burpie. You think trolls should be equal as tanks to ogres? If so then damn I wish it could be cuz i certainly wouldnt play a troll anymore. Every class is supposed to have their strengths and weaknesses along with every race. What about drow warriors? They have insane agi but their hps are weak. Should we give them troll hps? no because obviously their agi makes up for the lack of hps. Ogres have many strengths above other tanks and to have a weakness in the agi is completely justified. It may be harder to level one at the start but once you get the levels its completely worth it to play an ogre.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
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Postby Treladian » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:49 pm

Gura: Troll agility is only one notch below drow agility. Elf warriors aren't really shining examples of . . . well, a lot of stuff 8)

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