Ice tongue problems

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othelil
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Ice tongue problems

Postby othelil » Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:22 pm

Rather than cross post the logs, I'll refer you to this thread. There are two logs, the initial one and a second one further down that illustrates my point very well.

There seems to be an issue with the way ice tongue is handled, as some mobs (more than just the ones I've posted) seem to be able to cast right through it. They don't even seem to be shrugging the spell immediately, just ignoring it altogether. If someone could look into the mechanics of ice tongue, it would be much appreciated. I think it might be able to stand being upped a little.
irta
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soloing, increasing difficulty decreasing return,

Postby irta » Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:26 pm

In a similar vein, I and others have noticed the continuing downgrading of elementalists. While eles are probably the best overall soloists, our damage has gone from bad to worse, elemental size is dramatically less on average, and spell connects increasingly rare. Combine this with the new equipment guidelines that, in my limited understanding, are both going to render the gear on soloable mobs close to worthless (solable mobs worth killing are rare even now) and weaken my gear overall (which hurts in zones but is much more significant when soloing), and you have a worried ele.

Our days of soloing behind us, eles need upgrades to damage to the point where groups consider having two elementalists in the group a good thing. Right now this never ever happens for any serious zone. This means lots and lots of downtime for active eles moreso then any other mage.
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Postby Ihazim » Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:02 pm

irta:
silence, vit, stone, ward, pets, haste, area ice. an elementalist is a great addition to any group. i think your grouping woes may be rooted elsewhere.

othelil:
spells have been known to take affect the round after it has landed, for example stone skin. this could be a case of that.
othelil
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Postby othelil » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:55 pm

Ihazim, if you look at the logs carefully you'll notice that in both of the cases posted a round goes by before the spell completes. That is one issue, which Rylan says was fixed with silence. The second issue is that even after that round, which I could allow ala your stone skin example, they are still able to start casting another spell (and complete it, btw). This should not happen whether there is a one round lag or not.
othelil
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Postby othelil » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:06 am

I'll post this one here instead of in logs because I'm really hoping to hear from a staff member on this as to why the spell isn't immediately stopping casting immediately like silence.

Another great example, this time with a much lower level mob, who's taunting me because she cast right through my ice tongue with no problems. (debuffing more to see ice tongue than anything =P)


< 552h/552H 125v/125V P: std > l
The Tinker Camp
Exits: -N -W
A fire elemental is here blazing with heat!
Elizda, the Tinker wagon mistress, is here enjoying the warmth of the fire.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V P: std >
It's nice and warm out.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V P: std > pk elizda
Ok.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V P: std > pwbt
You start chanting...

< 552h/552H 125v/125V P: std >
You complete your spell...
Elizda, the wagon mistress won't be seeing much in the near future..

< 552h/552H 125v/125V P: std >
Elizda, the wagon mistress starts casting an offensive spell.
You barely slash Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: few scratches P: std >
But you are a member of no group?!

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: few scratches P: std >
it
You start chanting...

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: few scratches P: std >

Casting: ice tongue *
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >

You complete your spell...
Elizda, the wagon mistress's tongue freezes solid, and he is unable to speak!

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >
fe
You start chanting...

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >

A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >

Elizda, the wagon mistress completes her spell...
Elizda, the wagon mistress utters the words, 'zabrahpdjatz'
Elizda, the wagon mistress causes an EARTHQUAKE!
You stagger and almost break your leg!
omrec
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Postby omrec » Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:07 pm

Irta:
Our days of soloing behind us, eles need upgrades to damage to the point where groups consider having two elementalists in the group a good thing. Right now this never ever happens for any serious zone. This means lots and lots of downtime for active eles moreso then any other mage.


Enchanters need an upgrade too, we never bring two chanters to a zone. We need more damage, stat! *duck* Not to mention druids, illusionists, bards, rogues, rangers.

Seriously, desiring two group slots for your class is a reach. Start with wanting one. I like taking a good elementalist with me every time I lead. But why bring another? Just like, why bring another chanter? They just get in my way..:P As it is, elementalists kick ass, especially if they're badass (e.g. inama). Glitterdust is the bomb, ice tongue is great when it isn't buggy, para is amazing, embody is a must for some zones, an extra haster/stoner is sometimes nice to have (if i need to get a sandwhich or something 8) ), and the damage done is great compared to all but vokers and squids.

Some elems can solo entire zones as is. Especially if the gods let them cast silence again..;)

-Om

P.S. Elem is also the best two-man group buddy, when paired with some extra damage.

P.P.S. Gods have said this many-a-time, but I'd suggest waiting till eq changes come in before complaining about them. But since we all like complaining so much (must all be Jewish [I am]), that ain't gonna happen.
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Postby Feldyn » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:54 am

I love elementalists. Now hush before they take a serious look at how powerful we are and downgrade us! :wink:
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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:59 am

is embodiment's vit suppose to be level dependent on the victim or the elementalist? I loved my 3 hp air embodiment on a lvl 1 grey elf.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby thanuk » Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:24 pm

othelil wrote:You complete your spell...
Elizda, the wagon mistress's tongue freezes solid, and he is unable to speak!

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >
fe
You start chanting...

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >

A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.
A fire elemental barely burns Elizda, the wagon mistress.

< 552h/552H 125v/125V T: fire TC: excellent E: elizda EC: small wounds P: std >

Elizda, the wagon mistress completes her spell...
Elizda, the wagon mistress utters the words, 'zabrahpdjatz'
Elizda, the wagon mistress causes an EARTHQUAKE!
You stagger and almost break your leg!


The reason this happened is because she started casting before you landed ice tongue. I dont know if they want it to be that way or not, but it has always worked that way in my experience.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
thanuk
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Re: soloing, increasing difficulty decreasing return,

Postby thanuk » Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:33 pm

irta wrote:Combine this with the new equipment guidelines that, in my limited understanding, are both going to render the gear on soloable mobs close to worthless (solable mobs worth killing are rare even now) and weaken my gear overall (which hurts in zones but is much more significant when soloing), and you have a worried ele.

Our days of soloing behind us, eles need upgrades to damage to the point where groups consider having two elementalists in the group a good thing.


Again, when did soloability become a factor in class balance? This is a grouping mud. BTW having a 2nd person with fire embody is reason enough to bring a 2nd elementalist.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Hyldryn
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Postby Hyldryn » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:39 pm

Dalar wrote:is embodiment's vit suppose to be level dependent on the victim or the elementalist? I loved my 3 hp air embodiment on a lvl 1 grey elf.


Isn't it a combination of both?
Burpie
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Postby Burpie » Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:11 am

mostly depends on person receiving's level. at least with the air embody they got haste :P
othelil
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Postby othelil » Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:08 am

The reason this happened is because she started casting before you landed ice tongue. I dont know if they want it to be that way or not, but it has always worked that way in my experience.


Actually, that's not true. I can give you other examples where casting ice tongue on a casting mob has interuppted their casting, which is the expected and desired effect. These examples are notable for their inconsistency with that expected effect. The expected effect does happen, simply not consistently or predictably.
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:35 am

There's a critical period when a mob is casting for you to silence it or it will complete the spell, it has always been this way. If you don't silence it before that critical point it will continue it's cast and become silent affterwards. Now if it continues to cast there's a problem.
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Postby rylan » Sat Aug 30, 2003 8:10 pm

That was fixed with silence person a while back. You can land a silence person right beore a mob completes the spell and it'll abort. Ice tongue looks like it has the bug that silence person used to have before Itchy or Shev fixed it.
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:41 pm

Rylan is correct - ice tongue had the same bug that silence used to. I just fixed it, it will be in soon. Thanks!
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:45 pm

In related news...the trip skill had a similar problem, I just fixed that as well. Hooray for chain-bug-fixing.
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
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Postby Gyrx » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:22 pm

hi5 to Shevie!
othelil
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Postby othelil » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:09 pm

Shevarash wrote:Rylan is correct - ice tongue had the same bug that silence used to. I just fixed it, it will be in soon. Thanks!


That's great! Will this also ensure that they can't begin a second spell?
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:45 pm

Yep
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othelil
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Postby othelil » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:56 pm

You rock, Shev! Thanks!
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Postby Ionari » Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:13 am

Dalar wrote:I loved my 3 hp air embodiment on a lvl 1 grey elf.


Hey that's more hp than we gain from levelling.

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