Zone checkpoints for crashes

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Dalar
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Zone checkpoints for crashes

Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:37 am

Can you guys make checkpoints so that when the game crashes admins can put a zone back to a certain state? I'm tired of worrying about crashes and known crash bugs to not be fixed in WEEKS. I know you guys put in alot of time adminning/coding/area building but we waste alot of time playing too. Is 5 minutes out of your time to purge a bunch of rooms and load a couple of items really too much to ask?

Here's some pre-emptive responses for flamers:

I don't care about your Toril/Sojourn "we never got that b4!" crap
Last edited by Dalar on Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Bilraex » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:43 am

ya that 5 hrs we just spent in spob to get to the last fight and lose it all, amaizling the mud can save the fact that people died while it crashed but can't save the fact that we had all of the gems but one.
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Postby Salen » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:46 am

Along with this, the last thing to happen was 7.. count 7 blinds from a single pris at the Devourer fight.

That might give a place to look for a problem.

Beyond that, a zone that is built to kill players (which is the sole intent of SPOB), needs to have some way of marking progress. Whether that be will rentable pieces, 'save' spots, whatever.

This has been a problem since the zone went it, almost everyone who has ever been there has said the same thing.

I'm gonna quit now, because everything else I'd say would piss me off and start a fight.
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Postby Gyrx » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:07 am

I agree Dart, I especially agree with your last comment.
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Postby Ihazim » Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:01 pm

add renting area's within zones!
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:54 pm

Fix the code?
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Postby Shuanerst » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:07 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:Fix the code?


How do you propose they do that?

Make items load on pop, but only rarely (so the mud refreshes itself over time) and save item/mob state so that reboot/crash doesn't reload everything (would also require saving of pc camp location to get them auto into zone, or the zone would repop (hmmm maybe zones also shouldn't full repop, a mob or two at a time each pop?)

Wow that sounds hard.

I just want a decision from on high that it's ok for gods to help with a CR after a crash (less sure about a zone restore to finish the zone), and then have them permadelete anyone causing crashes to abuse that intervention.

As without a a ruling from the top, the lesser admins aren't going to be willing to make such a ruling on the spot. So forgers? Why not? (assuming that crash bug [ab]use is prosecuted to the full extent of the nasty text of help RULES and help LAWS)

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:16 pm

How do I propose what? Fixing the code? I don't know. I don't code.

Don't impliment crap code? Fix the bugs when they're reported?

Like I stated in another a thread, the fact that you have to take into account a crash when deciding what zone you're going to do is pretty much crap imho. Hey, I guess i'm off base here, what do I know, right?

Yeah, let's cater to the code being crappy and put in a temporary fix which inturn causes more code errors. Stability? What's that?
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:45 pm

There's a few possible ways...

1) No help at all, ever, regardless of circumstances
2) Help in extreme circumstances
3) Always CR players from zones when the mud crashes
4) Always CR, or reset or partly reset the zone, depending on circumstances
5) Always reset the zone

Right now I think it's 2) or 1). I've heard of God help because of crashes, but never seen it.

Only 1) 3) and 5) are fully consistant, 2) and 4) I think could end up with favouritism claims, or people whining that there were no Gods on, or Gods feeling hard done by when players whine at them to reset whatever, or people having to prove where they were.

1) and 5) I feel are wrong choices. 1) because it's just so frustrating to have to do 2/3 of a zone, with less people, just because the mud crashed through no fault of your own, meaning everybody is 3 hours late to bed and grumpy the next day. 5) because it puts too much work on the Gods, I think it's unreasonable to expect them to sort out everything after every crash.

So I think 3) should be the way to go.

Looking at the plus and minus sides of it......

You mass spank in a zone, you've really screwed it up... you're sitting outside the zone, which has popped, wondering how you can possibly sort it out... bang, mud crashes. Woo! You know Gods will press corpses and drag them all out of the zone.

You're in Spob, devourer has lost 3 of his soulbounds, you're about to do a final straight up run on him and claim the shiny toys. Bang, mud crashes. You lose everything you had gained.

There's unintentional boosts and downs to players because of it, but I think it evens up in the longrun, it certainly doesn't favour players.

One more thing that could happen as a result.... You mass die in a zone. Some twink knows that casting spell x on mob y will crash the mud, or something similar. Yay, free CR.

I suggest if you change policy to 3) then anybody caught deliberately crashing the mud is banned for life, has all characters deleted, and their association is heavily fined.
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Postby Shuanerst » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:10 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:How do I propose what? Fixing the code? I don't know. I don't code.


I didn't intend to start a flame war. Just looking to clarify what you meant. "Fix the code" is pretty nebulous when talking about how to lessen the impact of crashes on CRs.

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Postby Gyrx » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:27 pm

Arilin Nydelahar wrote:How do I propose what? Fixing the code? I don't know. I don't code.

Don't impliment crap code? Fix the bugs when they're reported?

Like I stated in another a thread, the fact that you have to take into account a crash when deciding what zone you're going to do is pretty much crap imho. Hey, I guess i'm off base here, what do I know, right?

Yeah, let's cater to the code being crappy and put in a temporary fix which inturn causes more code errors. Stability? What's that?


Arilin, most of the time the code is put in it is indeed very stable, being tested on the test mud and in other independant ways. Yes, we all know of certain things that were put in before they were fully tested but let's not focus on those.

The problem occurs when you take these two indepedant pieces of code that are relatively stable (the smaller code being much more stable) and put them together. That is where most of the crash bugs originate, is when 2 seperate pieces of code decide to not cooperate when ways that one would predict they should.

Coding is hard work. I'm dong my best to learn it and maybe someday I can help Shev and the gang. Kudos to the coders.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:30 pm

Nor was I flaming you. What i'm saying is, it's gotten to a point where alot of people expect a crash from zone x when they do it. The idea is you shouldn't expect one is all im saying.
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:15 pm

Bilraex wrote:ya that 5 hrs we just spent in spob to get to the last fight and lose it all, amaizling the mud can save the fact that people died while it crashed but can't save the fact that we had all of the gems but one.



That has happened so much in Seelie as well. On wiz-type notifications, is there a way to notify or update a zone that keeps a temporary memory of what's completed in a zone such as spob? Seelie isn't so bad since you do keep items, but Spob, you're screwed. Doing zone 2x and basically giving 1/2 your bid up is harsh. My math says 2 zones and 1 bid, combined with hrs and hrs of possible cr = no fun! But at least Spob doesn't count on eq
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Postby xa » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:49 pm

as being one of the members of this crap brigade 5 hour jaunt theres gotta be someway to do this I honestly kind of dig the idea of in zone innkeeper only fer certain zones though aka like salen said the one's that are meant to kill ya that way if it does crash yer not all that far behind where you were gods of course should clear whatever you cleared earlier since that really is fair being that we didnt know it was gonna crash didnt want it to crash had nothing to do with the fact that it did crash we were just sol 5 hours wasted just my 2 cents flib
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Postby ssar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:33 pm

Agreed, this should be looked at somehow I think.

I have heard about and experienced repeated game crashes apparently due to certain fights/rooms/zones too often now.

It doesn't sound easy to "fix", and we all know what a great job all the admin/coders do etc., but I beleive this issue should be earmarked for some examination when able please.

I dont know if extra save/rent features added in would be a practical way to try and help, perhaps scrutiny of just what code appears to be causing the crashes etc. would help.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:49 am

Make an item you find on one of the 5 tendrils, and another you find on bhaal that are rentable. However include these items in the quest to open th portal to get out of the zone so that peeps cannot just keep them. However if it crashed and people were in the zone they would still have these items. Now here is the clever part. Make a big fat dragon or demi god or something that hangs around at the start of the zone. If you quest this mob with the previously mentioned items, it goes kinda beserk and clears the zone (of course it just unloads all the mobs up unto the item you quest and unload itself in a gflash of pretty ansi)
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:18 am

any imm feedback on this? this could make these 5 hour zones actually visitable by casual players.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:24 pm

I know this is a problem, and though it's easy to say that it's always been that way, and you take your chances doing a zone - instead I will say:

1) We're always working to fix crash bugs and improve stability to make this less of an issue and

2) I'll give some thought to your idea.
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Postby Dalar » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:53 pm

Shevarash wrote:I know this is a problem, and though it's easy to say that it's always been that way, and you take your chances doing a zone - instead I will say:

1) We're always working to fix crash bugs and improve stability to make this less of an issue and

2) I'll give some thought to your idea.


well it's come to the point where there are crash bugs known to the public. another way to make the players feel safe are to:

Remove that one zone that causes a ton of crashes.

Also how many times have we had a zone crash on us from a coder screwing around? This wasn't a problem before because we were doing 2-3 hour zones. The area gods have stepped up a notch this year and made zones 4-5 hours for the casual player. I hope the MUD doesn't go to the point where zoning isn't worth it because of fear of unstability. It's pretty where I'm at right now.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Stamm » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:11 pm

Shevarash wrote:I know this is a problem, and though it's easy to say that it's always been that way, and you take your chances doing a zone - instead I will say:

1) We're always working to fix crash bugs and improve stability to make this less of an issue and

2) I'll give some thought to your idea.


How do you feel about the policy change I suggested? Worth considering at all?
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Postby Lilithelle » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:24 pm

Please don't make comments about just fix the bugs or whatever, I've worked in software houses for years and it just ain't that easy. Look at windows, plenty buggy still and they have thousands of employees and almost unlimited resources. They ship beta code out to thousands ahead of releases to catch bugs, something the mud could never do. New code keeps the mud alive and changing, its necessary.

Most code changes to fix this problem would be too easy to abuse, if it were easy they'd have done it by now. Better to modify zones specifically to deal with this issue. SPOB and Seelie both have the problem of crashes all but eliminating your gains. Ok, goggles in seelie are maybe the 1/2 way point but the rest of the eq is all in the last 4 or 5 rooms. Like maybe seelie when you kill the kings emissary you get a guards pass that is rentable and allows you to get past the guards at the start of the zone but would have to be turned in before you could do throne room and princess. Would it be so bad to have the SPOB gems rentable? So you'd get some reward on crash, just not alot. Not sure what would be done about questing them to seals. Either move the quest mobs outside the portal, still have to kill field toget to them. Or maybe a special quest with Nern that takes the gems. Or you'd just save them till next SPOB run.

I would think it should be policy gods CR specific high level zones on crash. Like say Tiamat, Bronze Citadel, maybe seelie. At least SPOB has no eq at stake. Could corpse rot be extended significantly or suspended but only in SPOB? At least people could get their exp back during future spob runs.
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Postby Thilindel » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:38 pm

:lol: OMG When I have an idea, it's a flickering candle. Lilithelle's Ideas are like a lighthouse! Totally agree w/what she said!
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Postby Shuanerst » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:06 pm

I agree with every Stamm said. #3 of his suggestions is the way to go imo. What's wrong with moving the corpses out? It's open to crash bug abuse? Well the prosecute the abuse!

Ok there's one other problem. CR's might take on the form of "wait for the mud to crash/reboot". That's a pretty big risk imo. I know I would start the CR right away rather than hoping that the mud crashes/reboots in the next 18 hrs.

-Shuanerst

[There are issues about it being a free pass if the crash/reboot happens before the CR is complete, but I'd rather have the rule be "You get your corpse", than "Start your CR over again". After all the crash is in no way planned by the players.]
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Postby Savras » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:51 pm

I already have a 3 page long thread bitching that SPOB is too easy... the only real risk there is time... time spent doing the zone with a risk of crashing, and time spent regaining lost exp.

And now you want the items rentable?

I don't think so.
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Postby xa » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:10 pm

ya savras I want it rentable you didn't spend yer entire 5 hour saturday evening holed up in this zone for the mud to crash with 10-15 mins left in the zone. and whatever about the easiness of the zone spob aint easy
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:01 pm

ok so now area gods take into consideration if the zone will crash as a risk vs reward factor? that's lame
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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don't make crashing a factor

Postby irta » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:20 pm

Savras wrote:I already have a 3 page long thread bitching that SPOB is too easy... the only real risk there is time... time spent doing the zone with a risk of crashing, and time spent regaining lost exp.

And now you want the items rentable?

I don't think so.


Up the difficulty of the zone then, don't make crashing a factor. For example, make the mobs repop and if you're especially evil (and we know you are) make the whole zone !ress. But make the items rentable and cr crashes.

Not that I would like doing spob with those changes, but at least they're difficulties that can be somewhat managed through skill rather then just keeping your fingers crossed.

the Irta
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:33 pm

I know this is going to be taken as offensive, but I'm going to say it anyway. I really think this is one of the best examples of how no matter what's done for the mud, it will never be enough in the eyes of the players. A crash is just the risk you take. The trend has really taken a hard swerve towards removing all risk from the game, lately, even more so than usual it seems. Risk is what gives any kind of value to the rewards. Without the potential for loss, there's really no challenge at all.

Just like any game... sometimes you win...

And sometimes you lose.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:43 pm

The only way to lose if the mud crashes? What an awesome game! I'm sure alot of new players will love that. Welcome to Sojourn3! Your fight against the crashes continue.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gyrx » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:45 pm

Ashiwi wrote:I know this is going to be taken as offensive, but I'm going to say it anyway. I really think this is one of the best examples of how no matter what's done for the mud, it will never be enough in the eyes of the players. A crash is just the risk you take. The trend has really taken a hard swerve towards removing all risk from the game, lately, even more so than usual it seems. Risk is what gives any kind of value to the rewards. Without the potential for loss, there's really no challenge at all.

Just like any game... sometimes you win...

And sometimes you lose.


I remember back when I used to play Sega and Nintendo a ton, there were so many games that I loved. And quiet often it took me awhile to beat them because I was such a little shit and I had no idea what I was doing. Sure, whenever I lost the game because I wasn't good enough I bitched a bit, but I never once stopped playing it. I always turned it back on the next day and gave it another go.

However, when the game would freeze or the graphics would mess up so you couldn't play...when it started to happen to often is when I either sold the system or just lost it on purpose.
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Re: Everything

Postby Spij » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:53 pm

Not to interrupt this sudden flamewar, but considering the only replies you have on this thread, Caedym, are to basically flame Dartan (as you've done on previous threads), maybe you shouldn't be calling the kettle black?

Anyway, back to the thread... Personally, I think Lilithelle's idea of making the gems rentable is ideal. I was part of the ill-fated 5 hour run and it was more than a little disappointing to spend that 5 hours, time I don't have often, losing all tangible rewards because of a crash.

Unless of course crashes are seriously measured into a zone's difficulty.

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Postby Gura » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:30 pm

ill just say one thing about this. compare the amount of times the zone is done completely without a crash to the amount it crashes midzone and im sure you'll understand a lil better. if u wanna complain cuz it crashed on u in spob go ahead..but get over it and if it really pisses you off don't go back. Im pretty sure most of the staff work pretty hard to fix crash bugs and this mud is pretty stable considering..i mean look at the uptimes. give em a break and caedym...one thing....u come into this thread saying dartan u flame him u flame her this n that but all ur doing is flaming dartan. You said he contributed nothin to this thread...well neither did you. 8)
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Postby Mitharx » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:52 pm

SPOB crashed five minutes into the zone for me on my third trip. It hasn't crashed in the past seven trips. Seelie crashed twice in a row on SoI trips (a third time too with a corpse inside that I was not apart of) right before we got to the eq. There was a fair amount of time and energy invested into both seelie trips. The people who went just kinda sucked it up, got their stuff, and either restarted or did the zone another time. I find the mud overall to be pretty stable and when it crashes at a very bad time we just mark it down as a bad thing that happened and continue. I mean zoning is part of the fun, even without the eq, right?
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:57 pm

Back to the original topic. You're right Gura the staff does try I guess. Problem is they beta test on us alot too. Remember when auction code came in? Tons of crashes. I'd like to have something to show for myself or my group for a zone instead of wasting 5 hours and losing corpses over nothing. Lilithelle's idea for making gems rentable is a good fix for spob. I'm looking for a broad solution to crashes. What is wrong with making instances for zones on a crash? Is it too hard to code? Is crashing the only way gods can make this game !rewarding?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:01 pm

Mitharx wrote: I mean zoning is part of the fun, even without the eq, right?


This has been asked many times. Another question would be why hasn't anybody done Knight's Test? Will people do a zone if it's already been done? All signs point to no.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gura » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:08 pm

the seelie garrote bug was pretty well known for a while..dunno if its fixed or not but i havent seen many rogues garroting in the zone or it crashing as a result of it. I dunno anything about coding frankly and i won't pretend i do...but my best guess concering the auction related crashes is yea maybe the auction system wasnt properly tested enough and when it did crash a couple times they took it out like you suggested above they should do with zones that crash alot. So it's back in the game now fixed and all and not causin problems. I dunno. I think i rambled enough...but yea i like the idea of the gems being rentable.
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Postby Mitharx » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:20 pm

You are right Dalar. I tend to do zones over and over that I like (even if there is no good eq in them). I love killing giants and faeries and soulbound death bringers. In all honesty, if there not as much reward in seelie or spob as there is, I wouldn't be doing them as often tho. It's a good point. I guess I'm not really bothered by the crashes even tho I've been hit hard by them a couple times. Still, you make a valid point about some big zones and CRs in them.
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Postby rylan » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:29 pm

Its not so much the crashes that buggs me. Its the wasted alignment loss in the case of seelie, and people having to go back in and esentially redo 75% of the zone to get corpses that would've otherwise only taken 10 minutes to get.
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Postby Todrael » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:46 pm

The only concern I can see with making the gems rentable is that 60% of the zone difficulty is in that last fight. Everything else, all the other gems, are very doable, and can, in fact, be 'stomped' even by a group that gets wasted at the end.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:04 pm

Todrael wrote:The only concern I can see with making the gems rentable is that 60% of the zone difficulty is in that last fight. Everything else, all the other gems, are very doable, and can, in fact, be 'stomped' even by a group that gets wasted at the end.


I disagree. 2nd grid is no cakewalk imho with 4 stabbers.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Bilraex » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:52 am

why does every single post have to turn into a flame, christ this is supposed to be a discussion, can't people (yes even dalar) post a suggestion, something they would like to see fixed, im amazed the staff even reads past the 4th post.
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:47 am

Checkpoints in a zone? Not exactly sure how you could do that in a massively multiplayer game that doesn't have a 'save game' feature. I thought the point of crashes sending you back to where you last rented, and not camped, was to prevent people from twinking zones? I don't see how you can make checkpoints unless the zone repops and you have to go thru locked doors you need keys for to get to a certain checkpoint location? I mean I suppose that could work to a degree, but who wants to make all zones a series of locked !pick doors? I know the rogues don't want that. :P

Now here's a thought. What if the keys for all these locked !pick doors were !rent and you turned those in at the end of the zone for rewards. That way people couldn't keep keys cuz they either wouldn't finish the zone, or wouldn't get items?
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:20 am

1) I know why Llaaldara agrees. She's another person i flame because she doesn't know how to read posts.
2) Read the VERY FIRST LINE OF THE THREAD. Once again you go on a completely different tangent.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Kossuth
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Postby Kossuth » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:34 pm

Get this thread back on topic and cut the flames or we close it.

That is all. :)
Kossuth -- TorilMUD Administrator

Astine OOC: 'ask not what I do to your mom, ask what my mom will do to you'
Llaaldara
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Re: Zone checkpoints for crashes

Postby Llaaldara » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:15 pm

Dalar wrote:Can you guys make checkpoints so that when the game crashes admins can put a zone back to a certain state?


I did read the first line and saw wut the thread is named. This is what I was responding to. Zone checkpoints. I fail to see how this wasn't what I was talking about. I don't see it happening that admins are just gonna take peoples word for it on the state of a zone. Cha-ha right. Good luck with that one. :P Nor do I see them wanting to check the logs. Nor do I see them wanting players to petition, "hey we are this far into the zone can you stat the zone for us?" So I thought PAST that and wondered if there was a way to have it coded instead which would also be more accurate. Admins don't like to heavily police players. Like Hello?

And stop trying to start some kinda flame with me just because you got owned by Lyt and don't have the balls to admit it. You talk about people hijacking your threads like you don't do it, some of us feel you're hijacking the BBS and trying to make it your own personal bitching ground where you jump up and down on anyone who doesnt' agree with you.

And taking people's word for it on the state of a zone would just lead to more accusations of favoritism.
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Re: Zone checkpoints for crashes

Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:14 pm

My original idea assumed that there was an admin at least checking up on the group every 30 minutes or the group in spob at least died once.

Assuming all admins are afk then you could code this to help them. When a group has reached a certain point in zone, the MUD writes something to some board kind of like the idea/bug commands which record player input. All an admin has to do is check that out and follow it.

If I were a god doing that for spob i'd put them at:
1) The first two bosses
2) The death of all the tendrils
3) The clearing of the 2nd grid
4) The death of the last two bosses

You don't even need that code for spob. You can just have an item proving you were that far in the zone already and making it rentable.

And please Llaaldara, I don't need some loser coming from left field flaming me without even providing input to the thread. All that proves is that HE has no life.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Lilithelle
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Postby Lilithelle » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:34 pm

I'm thankful to all the gods that run the mud, and rarely whine. Some slight changes would help, I'm trying to make suggestions that would be easy to implement.

I do agree the risk of crashes is just one of the risks you take, but in the case of spob to lose everything because of a crash and use that to justify the eq stats is a bit dubious. The eq should be statted for the difficult of the zone when it doesn't crash.

The cracked gems maybe easy to get, but the large aren't as easy and could be made more difficult by making the group leaders like devourer, and only lure after being hurt substantially not simple tagged. The eq from there is already being adjusted by Dugmaren I'm sure. So it could be made so all the cracked stuff is mediocre to reflect the ease of getting cracked gems, at least the first 2. But at least you'd come away with something. And gems are not the same as seals so you could have them quest to nern for entirely different rewards that would reflect their level of difficulty.

In the case of seelie its not that you risk losing eq cause the zone is hard, its the amount of time you waste when it crashes with corpses inside. Its hard on people that work in the morning, to find they have to zone for an extra 2 or 3 hours cause of a crash. Seelie is a zone that was meant to be doable on weeknights, not be a BC like juggernaut that you'd only do on weekends. And when it crashed on us it had nothing to do with the garrot bug.
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:25 am

For Spob just make the gems all rentable.

Would mean next time Spob is done, you all grab gems before you enter, and as long as you aren't taking in more than 8 then it's fine. Hmm, you could even leave and come back if the zone has been done.

Aside from that, I don't see any really workable way to get checkpoints done. I think the worst is when you are doing a zone and it crashes, you lose everything and on top of that, you've got to get back together just to get corpses out.
Eilistraee
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Postby Eilistraee » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:21 pm

Rentable gems in SPOB mean nothing since you can't go through the portal with any items :)
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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:17 pm

woops Xisi :P

Eilistraee wrote:Rentable gems in SPOB mean nothing since you can't go through the portal with any items :)


Make the dryad portal enterable with gems just like how you can leave with seals.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'

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