My BC whining thread part 3

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Dalar
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My BC whining thread part 3

Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:40 am

Please make the follow changes to Bronze Citadel:

1) Don't let the gateguards repop. Out of all the mobs in zone why is it that the gateguards repop? It makes no sense other than to make the group fight 13 demons while reentering Avernus. From common sense: I just killed Bel and destroyed his citadel, yet his gateguards are back out of nowhere. They must not be getting paid much?
2) Reduce the amount of patrols going around each ring to 6. 8 patrols is just another "crap we screwed up time to wait another 5 minutes for the perfect timing". This is another reason why the zone takes so long.
3) Please make the 4th seal quest items rentable. Doing hag/searching for the other 2 items takes around an hour. I'd rather do this on a day of preparation for BC. Cuts the zone time down which is the only reason why BC is never done.

That is all.
Last edited by Dalar on Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Corth » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:01 am

I see no reason to lower the amount of patrols..

The other two suggestions I wholehardedly agree with.

Making the quest items for the 4th seal rentable is by far the most important suggestion. It would allow people to do the zone over the course of two days. When we were trying to overcome the challenge it was maybe worth doing that zone all at once (the avernus portion plus the BC part), but otherwise, its way too onerous for anyone that might have even a minimal life outside the mud.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Todrael » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:04 am

These are some reasons why it's considered by many to be the hardest in the game. Making it easier just so that it's easier... well, that kind of takes away from the point of the zone, don't you think?
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:17 am

1) Removing the gateguards only makes SENSE. It's just there to screw up the hostage rescue.
2) 8 patrols is still cake. They're just annoying.
3) Making the quest items rentable means we can kill 1-2 hours.

The only reason BC is the hardest zone in game is because it's the longest zone in game.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Tanji Smanji » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:21 am

Todrael wrote:These are some reasons why it's considered by many to be the hardest in the game. Making it easier just so that it's easier... well, that kind of takes away from the point of the zone, don't you think?


Yes, its hard to stay awake for so many hours straight killing the same mobs over and over. Then there's Bel. You prep, go in and wait to die, CHALLENGING! BC has some hard aspects but its no where near the hardest zone in the game. It's long, annoying and takes way too long. If I wanted 7+ hour zones I'd still play EQ.
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Postby Todrael » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:45 am

This seems to be a difference of opinion rather than anything wrong with the zone.
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Corth
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Postby Corth » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:40 am

The zone is fine.. and its fun and challenging.. making it take 8 hours to complete doesn't make it any more challenging, however, in a gameplay sense.. just challenging to find 15 people who have nothing better to do but sit at a computer for 8 hours straight...

I doubt you'll see it done much anymore unless its changed so you can do it over the course of two days..

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Daz » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:35 pm

when i get my evil to level 50 then i hope you people point to me when you need a loser who CAN spend 8 hours straight at the computer. the happiest mud times i have ever had here involved zones that bled over 10 hours long. thats what im talking about.
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Postby Gyrx » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:44 pm

Sweet, who's your evil daz? I'll have to help plevel you
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Postby yud » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:37 pm

He is pretty original, and came up with it all by himself! Zad. ;-) You know I'm just bustin on ya Zad.

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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:45 am

Gyrx wrote:Sweet, who's your evil daz? I'll have to help plevel you
can u plvl my battlechanter plz
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gyrx » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:47 am

Dalar wrote:
Gyrx wrote:Sweet, who's your evil daz? I'll have to help plevel you
can u plvl my battlechanter plz


duh *whap*
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:56 am

damn daz, i so agree.

i wish it was possible to mud 24/7 again. i remember my most favorite zone trip was a 12 hour jot invasion trip (thank god no crash), it was the trip that hadjan got twilight. man that was fun. i miss diac :(
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:37 pm

Areas isn't my domain, but...

1) IF you want something changed, you need to provide some solid reasoning WHY they should be changed Simply requesting with no explanation will get you nowehere.

2) This kind of thing is probably more appropriately brought up in an email to Dugmaren/Cyric.
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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:46 pm

Shevarash wrote:Areas isn't my domain, but...

1) IF you want something changed, you need to provide some solid reasoning WHY they should be changed Simply requesting with no explanation will get you nowehere.

2) This kind of thing is probably more appropriately brought up in an email to Dugmaren/Cyric.


first post edited
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby thanuk » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:12 pm

Dartan has a point about the key, as it would cut at least an hour of the zone if you could go get it ahead of time.

I think the gate guards repop to either make it more difficult if you spank(if you dont use a sitter you deserve what you get), and to prevent people from just walking in there and looking around after the zone is done. My thoughts are that the gate guards shouldn't repop when there is someone in the zone. After the group leaves, sure have them pop and keep people from seeing the inside of BC without earning their way in, but I agree that having to fight them again on the way out after you just smoted their leader mightily is a bit tedious.

The patrols i disagree with. I see where you're coming from here dartan, but with 8 it means you have to kill them really fast or else you're gonna get screwed, and only having 6 gives you a bigger time frame for killing and makes the zone easier. Having to smite the groups fast makes it more difficult in my opinion.
I think keeping the zone as hard as it is, just shaving off the time to get the keys in the beginning would make it much more plausible for a group to do the zone. I mean, you still have to go into avernus and get the key, which is a difficult task in itself. Whats the difference if you do it the day before you go to BC rather than right before you go? Maybe even add a trident of the undead burn proc on the key so that people dont walk around with multiple keys for months at a time, but still make it rentable. Or give it a timed disintigration, but rentable, so you have to use the key within 72 rl hours of getting it to do the zone or whatever. Just rambling at this point so thats my thoughts.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:54 pm

Would 6 patrols of 6 demons be just as hard as 8 of 5? It's a 4 mob difference but I would think they're of the same difficulty. Also, I don't think there should be any time limit on the 4th seal quest items. It's not like people are going to horde them or something and BC isn't a weeknight zone.

Also thanuk, only gateguards pop. If you spank you spank. I don' t think the gateguards repopping was ever meant to hurt a CR because nobody even goes through the front gates. And they don't block i think.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby thanuk » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:01 pm

Dalar wrote:Would 6 patrols of 6 demons be just as hard as 8 of 5? It's a 4 mob difference but I would think they're of the same difficulty. Also, I don't think there should be any time limit on the 4th seal quest items. It's not like people are going to horde them or something and BC isn't a weeknight zone.

Also thanuk, only gateguards pop. If you spank you spank. I don' t think the gateguards repopping was ever meant to hurt a CR because nobody even goes through the front gates. And they don't block i think.


I thought they did block? don't remember.

Anyway, I would think 6 of 6 would still be easier than 8 of 5 because you still have extra time to kill them, but thats just what i think, id say you'd have to try it to figure it out. You got a point about nobody going through the front gates though i guess.

I dunno i think the 8 groups is fine, but i definately agree about the rentable key and the repoping guards, even though i think theres a reason the guards repop that we aren't touching on.
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You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:22 pm

i dunno i think 6 would be a tiny bit harder than 5 demon patrols just b/c of the extra proccer. I think the gateguards repop to either force you to enter the prison through the trapdoor or waste another 10-20 minutes to kill the gateguards when heading back to avernus
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:22 pm

I guess that must be why I like the zone so much. We didn't have a walkthrough to make it boring for us.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:59 pm

I guess "ok there are 3 rings of patrols and go through the prison and you need these 3 items" is a walkthrough.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'

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