Rogue : problems noticed and plans to fix them

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Nilan
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Rogue : problems noticed and plans to fix them

Postby Nilan » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:10 am

Just thought I'd bring to light a few things that could be adjusted with rogue changes that i noticed while trying things out:

1. Backstab : When a rogue backstabs a target it auto switches to the rogue thus making him the tank. This is reasonable , I guess, do to the fact that I assume stabbing one in the back would seriously piss someone off and , yes, theyd more than not turn on that target. However, if the target the rogue is backstabbing is para'd or blinded, I do not think the switch should automatically occur. Number one, the target cant move, or the target cant see to switch on the rogue. While testing in Jot, i backstabbed a blind target as well as a para'd target to see if switches occured, both times i became the tank. Hence , i bring this suggestion before you, in hope that this might be addressed.

Allowing a rogue to backstab under these conditions, will improve teamwork in a group and also allow the rogue to use his/her primary combat skill. (much like other classes are able to use their main skill). If I'm in a group that has a rogue class in it, Im gonna try to blind the mob or para it so that our group can take full advantage of the rogues skills in battle.

I dont feel that allowing a rogue not to get auto switched to on a blind or para'd mob will unbalance the class, un the contrary it will enable the class to use its skill and the group to take advantage of that skill in battle.

2) sneaking: I notice that when sneaking, i lag up as i enter a room???? Is this supposed to happen? I can tell you , its a good way to die.

The point in trying to sneak, is to move by the aggro mob, however with the rogue sneak lag , you lag in the room you are trying to sneak through. Perhaps this can be looked at. its better to just spam directions, then attempting to sneak. thus the sneak skill rogues get is pretty ineffective.

3) hide: I know D2 is working or has worked on hide. I do notice a reduction in lag. while i understand the reason for the lag after the hide, i do not see any point or reason for one to hide on the sneak once you sneak in the room. Its deadly, and in effect renders the skill kinda useless.

4) Darts and arrows v. backstab:
Will a dart or an arrow do more damage than plunging two daggers in the back of a target??? Kinda silly if it does, just asking the question, because in old S2 a dang thrown dart did more damage than a backstab.

Well thats bout all i noticed so far. Please try look at the backstab switch when mobs are blinded or para'd. That would allow us rogues to use our skills in battle, and allow groups to work more as a team.

Just some thoughts

Nilan

-Assassin, and Traitor to Waterdeep-
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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:29 am

I think the staff mentioned that sneaking would lag you if your skill sucked, and if you got it to a high level it would eventually disappear.
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:41 pm

I appreciate all your comments regarding rogues. =) In response:

1) was unaware of the blind/para thing, will look into it.

2) sneak lag dissipates at higher skill levels.

3) hide was adjusted last wipe to actually become useful. if there are still issues with it, please provide more concrete examples.

4) my understanding is that range damage is being balanced, so expect it to change.

--D2
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Tue Apr 17, 2001 3:09 pm

Thanks, D2

just trying to help, wasnt sure whats up with it so was just letting you all know stuff that i noticed as i trying new stuff.

Nilan
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:42 pm

At first I didn't like the auto-switching associated with double backstab, but in time I've adapted to use it to my advantage. When those poor little mages get switched to and none of the warriors can manage to get a rescue off, you can lay the blades into the mob and have it turn on you.

As for dart damage, I've tested the dart damage versus my backstab damage and despite my weak weapons, the backstab does more. (When successful). I'm sure this will go up as backstab skill and better weapons become more available.

Yayaril
Jaeron
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Postby Jaeron » Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:05 pm

I still remember the day that no-fail switch on backstab was put in to the mud. Everyone complained about it as a huge downgrade, and people continuously asked me "How can you play that class still? All they do is downgrade you!" Not even realizing that no-fail switch on backstab = no-fail rescue in zones. It was one of the biggest merc upgrades.. or actually.. the ONLY merc upgrade of all time. Image

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Jaeron -Shadowstalker, Merc for Hire, at your service.
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:13 pm

Yayaril:
How many rounds of darts were you testing?

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Nokie
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Postby Nokie » Tue Apr 17, 2001 8:14 pm

D2, how about letting us know if we are hidden or not?
If that's too much, then perhaps a more aggressive lag with hide would be appropriate. What's the point of hide if you have no idea if your hidden?

I know someone said something cryptic like "hide is good if you know how to get an aggro mob to track you to find out" or somesuch - I don't get it.

Nokie Quickfingers!
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Apr 17, 2001 11:18 pm

I tested the average of my backstabs and darts, Elseenas. On average, my darts do 12 damage each. That means, that if instead of backstabbing, I simply shot off 3 darts at the beginning of combat, I would do 36 damage. On average, I double backstab for 45-50. My weapons are rather weak, too. As my weapons grow stronger, along with my skills, I'm sure this number will grow exponentially. I know people were saying Nitania was doing well over 600 damage with her backstabs in the arena. Somehow I don't think one round of darts at that level can do so much damage. Backstab has a lot more room for growth as opposed to darts. Darts, after a certain level, teeter off and do less and less substantial damage.


Yayaril
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:07 am

The question is one of melee at low levels vs darts. One round of darts is never the issue.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Wed Apr 18, 2001 2:49 am

the reason i brought up the switch on backstab was not to say it should be changed. i understand the reason for it and i do feel the mob should switch on the stabber. BUT if the mob is blinded or para'd it SHOULDNT auto switch to the stabber.

that was the point of my post Yayaril
in case i wasnt clear

thanks

Nilan
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:32 pm

No arguments here, that should definitely be fixed.


Yayaril
Nitania
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Postby Nitania » Sat Apr 21, 2001 2:25 pm

Image

From my experience both on old versions of sojourn and soj3, backstabs seem to gain exponental damage ability while darts/knives whatnot generally stay at about the same percentage -as far as damage goes. Testing backstab vs ranged weapons in the arena between levels 30-50 I noticed a HUGE improvement in double BS damage.

did that make sense? I'm goin on about 3 hours of sleep for the 5th day in a row :P

Nitania

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